Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone,

Let me preface this with this is just my musing about how to help improve condi rev for the raiding environment, and that I understand that condi rev is currently in a good spot for spvp. I know that Arenanet can now do separate balancing for pve and spvp but I am unsure if they are limited to just skills or if they can also independently balance traits.

From what I understand condi rev dps suffers in everything pve due to the fact that it is torment focused, (and stuff does not move enough to make torment a viable pve condi) and a trait line that is more so intended for pvp than pve.
I have two ideas for changes to Venom Enhancement that might make condi rev viable for pve.
Idea 1) Remove the internal cooldown on Venom Enhancement for pve

Idea 2) Make Venom Enhancement convert all torment that you would apply to poison. (IE mace 1 chain would now apply poison on every swing rather than torment on the first two and poison on the last)

I think idea 1 is the better solution not only because it would be easier to implement for the devs but it would also not make Yearning Empowerment useless if Venom Enhancement was taken.

Idea 1 would also work better if revs where to get say Pyre Fierceshot as an elite spec that gave us a condi short/long bow. It would give us some synergy between corruption and the elite spec line and allow the bow (be it short or long) to be viable (pve wise) while applying torment.

I wonder if removing the ICD is too much, as we can drop a nice big 30 stack of torment… and I got that high with only 78% duration on… that would mean a nearly equal set of poison stacks would it not? Now… that big load of poison would be short lived.

But… even a 1sec ICD would be a huge buff, that wouldn’t break things., this way Mace three and Axe 5 would only do 1 stack each, and not 3. but it would still line up with the pulses from the Mallyx elite.

My only other thought here, is that while it would make Venom Enhancement really solid, it doesn’t address the big issue on Condi Rev… which is, NO condis when out of mace/axe, or when out of Mallyx…. two things we are always forced to do sooner or later. (torment on crit counts as bout as much as sigil of earth, which is to say, not much.)

is there a way we could change Venom Enhancemnet that gives condi’s when not in mallyx, and regardless of weapon set? i dont nessecarily have a good way to do this in mind, and perhaps this trait isnt the place to adress tht problem. im jus’ sayin.

Just make torment do full damage moving or not in PvE and everybody, not only revs, will be happier.

lmperdigao.2567:

Just make torment do full damage moving or not in PvE and everybody, not only revs, will be happier.

While this is a good idea mechanically, it destroys the flavor of torment. Do you have any ideas on how to do this, but make torment different from bleeding? Or would it just be the “medium” damage condition? If so, what about that cant be done mechanically with only bleeds and burns?

I second a change to remove the internal cooldown on Venom Enhancement for pve.

But instead of applying poison for each stack of torment, perhaps to apply poison whenever torment is applied? So even if 3 stacks of torment is applied in one skill/attack, only one stack of poison is applied. I don’t think it would increase the dps by too much, but it will at least make condition rev viable.

I was testing on golems with this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJApnnXNeNSqJvJR/kHlsgykS4Q5SJYrsrkFNFhNc62tLC0ItToSA-TBiMQBh6EAUQlgQTPA8UOUK1fAw+Dg6BAcKlcdDIAGEAwatWrVDhQIEkCYRlVA-e

With all buffs, profession specific and food on 4 mil HP golems with all conditions, probably imperfect rotations, I only hit about 21k dps, which is dismal for a pure dps build which doesn’t add anything else to the table (except maybe to increase poison and torment stacks for your necros to epi, and boon removal).

I don’t think that having an internal cooldown of one second will boost the dps enough. An internal cooldown of 1 second with the above build will only boost the dps by about 1.9k (Roughly whatever damage a Venom Enhancement proc will apply since it’s a 1 second cooldown) .
23k dps on full buffs is still dismal for a pure dps class.

Even if poison is applied per stack of torment, 30 stacks of poison at about 2.7k condi damage will add roughly 6k dps, 40 stacks will roughly be 8k.
27k – 29k dps is starting to sound decent.
Lets say poison is applied whenever torment is applied (regardless of torment stacks), I’d estimate the stacks will be around 25. That would be roughly 5k dps. 26k dps is still ok. (Keeping in mind that my rotation isn’t perfect, and some people can probably pull bigger figures than me)

I don’t think the change will break Revs, it will make condi Rev viable.

What do you guys think?

TL:DR I agree that the internal cooldown for Venom Enhancement should be removed for pve. It won’t make condi Rev meta, but viable.

I say this every time the topic of condi rev in PvE is brought up:

• Change Yearning Empowerment for PvE only to read: Torments last longer and now deal mobile damage(x2 of stationary) to stationary targets.

This would make it so torment is still the primary condition, still aligning with Mallyx’s theme, and bring condi-rev on par with the other, strong condi-dps classes.

OP’s suggestion for removing the ICD of Venom Enhancement would completely pigeon-whole any condi rev PvE builds(as it is now, the current set already does this with the other two options clearly being implied for use in PvP/WvW). That’s why I suggested a change to one of the passive traits. In all honesty the whole set of Major Adept traits for the Corruption line really need an overhaul.

Yeah, that sounds a lot better! Alternatively they could add to the trait a modifier to make torment do more damage. Some other classes have traits that make certain conditions do more damage, like Ranger can trait for higher damage bleeds or Guardian for higher damage burns. But as you said, they’d need to boost the damage by a lot to make it on par (up to 2x on stationary). Perhaps a damage boost of 50% would be a good compromise (probably easier to program than making torment deal mobile damage to stationary targets just for rev)? A 33% or 15% boost like the abovementioned would be too little.

What I think we need are traits which proc vs targets with Torment to make Condi Rev viable. That would make Torment fair in both pve and pvp because we have to focus on hitting targets to get the procs vs making mobs in pve move so that torment can deal as much in pve as it does in pvp.

Jack Skywalker.5674:

What I think we need are traits which proc vs targets with Torment

I think this is another good idea for a solution. Maybe add more(another) condition application on proc? Possibly burning?

Since we are talking exclusively about Venom Enchantment here….why not make it so that Venom Enchantment has no ICD but only procs on critical hits vs targets with Torment.

And then we can change Frigid Precision to Frostfire enchantment which will apply Burning to targets with Torment and apply Chill vs targets with Poison on ciritcal strike – again no ICD.