Guild Wars 2

I realized something today. Even though revenant only has one ranged weapon the hammer we are very lucky it’s good.

Yes the auto attack isn’t great for single target but it hits multiple enimies.

2 skill makes up for it though with the low cd and high damage,

3 skill, Damage is good and sense it can now dodge it’s just fun

4 skill reflects

5 is nice aoe damage knockdown.

I know it’s not condition based but as far as a power weapon for range I’m very very happy with it. We are extremely lucky we have Roy who actually reads our feedback, comments, plays the class, and really knows what needs working and fixed.

After reading the dragonhunter changes it became clear the person working on it didn’t read any feedback, or make the changes we needed. Spear of justice, gave it more damage (which was never the issue with it?) ABC ignored projectiles speed completely.

Thank you Roy for listening and building this class with us

WE LOVE YOU, ROY!

I think the only real issue is a lack of a variety in condition weapons and legends, including a lack of ranged condi weapons.

With future elite specializations, this will probably be resolved, but, for now, Mallyx is an unfortunate outlier.

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

Truthfully the ele forum made me kinda sick. Elementalist in my opinion was already one of the strongest classes in game that could do more then any other class already. Yet people are in an uproar because now was added to the class. I personally enjoyed it in beta.

Sylent.3165:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

Truthfully the ele forum made me kinda sick. Elementalist in my opinion was already one of the strongest classes in game that could do more then any other class already. Yet people are in an uproar because now was added to the class. I personally enjoyed it in beta.

The tempest mechanics are trash though, mechanically they are bad, as a trait line they are bad, what the spec brings to the table is nothing we couldn’t do. the elite is god tier bad.

The devs took no input from weeks of feedback and an overwhelming amount of suggestions and improvements/alteration ideas of improving the tempest, all aspects.

Its appalling that they can disregard an entire community like that, its no wonder everyone hates the devs over there, I completely support them in that.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Sylent.3165:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

Truthfully the ele forum made me kinda sick. Elementalist in my opinion was already one of the strongest classes in game that could do more then any other class already. Yet people are in an uproar because now was added to the class. I personally enjoyed it in beta.

The tempest mechanics are trash though, mechanically they are bad, as a trait line they are bad, what the spec brings to the table is nothing we couldn’t do. the elite is god tier bad.

The devs took no input from weeks of feedback and an overwhelming amount of suggestions and improvements/alteration ideas of improving the tempest, all aspects.

Its appalling that they can disregard an entire community like that, its no wonder everyone hates the devs over there, I completely support them in that.

Yes but how were they suppose to give you something you couldn’t already do when Ele’s can already do everything? All jokes aside I agree it’s not right for the devs to treat any class that way ,but Ele’s also don’t have any room to complain. That class has been a must have class for every mode of the game since well forever.

Griffith.7238:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Sylent.3165:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

Truthfully the ele forum made me kinda sick. Elementalist in my opinion was already one of the strongest classes in game that could do more then any other class already. Yet people are in an uproar because now was added to the class. I personally enjoyed it in beta.

The tempest mechanics are trash though, mechanically they are bad, as a trait line they are bad, what the spec brings to the table is nothing we couldn’t do. the elite is god tier bad.

The devs took no input from weeks of feedback and an overwhelming amount of suggestions and improvements/alteration ideas of improving the tempest, all aspects.

Its appalling that they can disregard an entire community like that, its no wonder everyone hates the devs over there, I completely support them in that.

Yes but how were they suppose to give you something you couldn’t already do when Ele’s can already do everything? All jokes aside I agree it’s not right for the devs to treat any class that way ,but Ele’s also don’t have any room to complain. That class has been a must have class for every mode of the game since well forever.

I keep hearing/reading this stupid argument (hyperbolic at that) again and again, but the thing is that the core Ele specs being good do not serve as justification for the tempest to be incredibly underwhelming in its current iteration.

Khenzy.9348:

Griffith.7238:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Sylent.3165:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

Truthfully the ele forum made me kinda sick. Elementalist in my opinion was already one of the strongest classes in game that could do more then any other class already. Yet people are in an uproar because now was added to the class. I personally enjoyed it in beta.

The tempest mechanics are trash though, mechanically they are bad, as a trait line they are bad, what the spec brings to the table is nothing we couldn’t do. the elite is god tier bad.

The devs took no input from weeks of feedback and an overwhelming amount of suggestions and improvements/alteration ideas of improving the tempest, all aspects.

Its appalling that they can disregard an entire community like that, its no wonder everyone hates the devs over there, I completely support them in that.

Yes but how were they suppose to give you something you couldn’t already do when Ele’s can already do everything? All jokes aside I agree it’s not right for the devs to treat any class that way ,but Ele’s also don’t have any room to complain. That class has been a must have class for every mode of the game since well forever.

I keep hearing/reading this stupid argument (hyperbolic at that) again and again, but the thing is that the core Ele specs being good do not serve as justification for the tempest to be incredibly underwhelming in its current iteration.

Oh well look who it is … lol

I never said it was justified just that there are other classes in the game that have more to complain about. Even if Tempest ends up not being good (which I highly doubt it will) Eles always have their base class to fall back on. The same cannot be said for a few of the other classes.

Meh..maybe that wasnt a good idea to post it :P

So ill olny ask, whos the dev of war/ranger?

skowcia.8257:

Meh..maybe that wasnt a good idea to post it :P

So ill olny ask, whos the dev of war/ranger?

I hope Roy for ranger lol

I really like the hammer. Good skills, good changes. Visually pleasing. Liking the slow-powerful feel/hits vibe as well.

Thanks ArenaNet for this class (because lets be honest, Roy is faceman for Rev atm but he is one of many so we should thank them all).

OneKlicKill.4285:

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

No we weren’t. You compare # of changes for a new class to the already established class. Also as far as Tempest goes you were already told that there are more changes planned but they didn’t just get all of them yet. You got that said by dev in your very own thread.

Also this thread is not about elementalists. You have specific forum for that :P

Killyox.3950:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

No we weren’t. You compare # of changes for a new class to already established class. Also as far as Tempest goes you were already told that there are more changes planned but they didn’t just get all of them yet. You got that said by dev in your very own thread.

Also this thread is not about elementalists. You have specific forum for that :P

I know right? At least they can play their class. “Rev is getting so much freakin attention what about my perfectly functional and complete class?!?!”. lol

As an Elementalist refugee it’s pretty understandable why they’re upset. Tempest is a dud. It offers nothing new, nothing exciting, and is just more of the same existing character we already have. The gimmick is supposed to be it’s a front line character but there’s so many things wrong with that idea (base Ele stats make gearing impossible, lack of stability, lack of mobility, etc) that it amazes me they went forward with it. Anet is showing a real lack of understanding of what “front line” actually means in their game and it’s really evident with any new source of Stability they design so far.

Most people counter with that, “Well Elementalist is already amazing, did you expect more amazing?” and the answer is: Yes. No one wants their specialization to be a dud or get a dud because, “You’re already good enough.” Imagine for a minute if Herald we got a Long Bow that was basically the same as Hammer skills (power based) and for our Legend we got a rehash of Jalis and the Traits were Power instead of Ferocity. Would it be usable? Sure. But we’d already have all that covered in our existing character as a Revenant and we’d be all wondering why our Specialization is more of the same. None of us here would be, “Oh well at least base Revenant is good, it’s okay our Specialization sucks too.”

That said, we definitely love Roy for giving us a unique specialization that’s an entirely different way to play the base character.

Tempest feels a dud because base Ele is too good. Nerf core Ele and see how people appreciate Tempest.

And elite specs are not meant to be better, just different. They don’t want power creep (altough some will definitely be there)

Killyox.3950:

And elite specs are not meant to be better, just different. They don’t want power creep (altough some will definitely be there)

exactly. Many people are upset about tempest because they have to give up some dps traits to use it.
Nerf those traits and Tempest will become an option.

Actually people are mad because they are meant to be different and it isn’t different. That’s the entire core of the issue. It isn’t different. There is no new role. There is no new style of game play. I don’t care if it’s straight up worse damage or whatever IF there was different role to play. But we can already do D/D boon based Bruiser. Hell it’s featured predominantly in every major SPvP tournament.

Specializations are about creating a new role for a class. Dragon Hunter is a predominately ranged Guardian something it lacked. Reaper creates a melee role for a Necro that it didn’t really have before. Herald creates a boon aura support build that isn’t available in the base Revenant class. Chronomancer gives them access to AOE well abilities they never had before. Tempest…well it gets more of the exact same things it always had with no new roles opening up. You can say it’s just because Elementalists are too good…or maybe…just maybe…it’s because Tempest was designed inadequately.

yeah, remove the possibility to do boon based ele as core and see how ele is still good, but tempest becomes viral. the problem with ele is that it can already do EVERYTHING, so they can’t add new roles.

I have to admit that I don’t play an elementalist and haven’t checked the tempest info much, but it seems to me that any argument related to “the base class is very good, what more did you expect” is absolutely against the whole philosophy of the new elite specialization system. This is supposed to be the main way professions are going to be expanded in the future. Every new one must present some differentiating “tweak” that makes it somehow special in relation to the base profession and all the other elite specializations it may have in the future. If that is not apparent for a player, it’s a design failure.

elite is not supposed to be better or much better, but to add options. if ele can already do everything (that what people mean when they say “it’s good”) then there is nothing tempest can add (except making it more op).

Again it all comes down to design for anything. There are plenty of gaps in each class, even Elementalist. Everything however has to be taken into consideration, and it wasn’t. The whole thing feels fairly rushed in fact and really makes me wonder how far along they were with the other version (sword) before they switched and whether or not it woulda been better if they just made sword into Axe instead and kept going with their original plan.

Regardless…the Tempest situation just makes you appreciate the current Glint design. Even if the numbers don’t work out on Auras to be as good, it’s at least a different role that we didn’t have before and that’s what Specializations are all about.

Roy’s our boy

[quote=5392399;OneKlicKill.428

Its appalling that they can disregard an entire community like that, its no wonder everyone hates the devs over there, I completely support them in that.[/quote]
We necro’s feel your pain…or felt…or possibly will feel, depends on how much they do to change reaper or the next beta weekend.

And on topic, I look forward to making the rev my secondary profession, I love my necro but the vibe and theme rev had seems very rewarding and entertaining. Can’t wait to make a Mallyx build!

Kodiak.3281:

Again it all comes down to design for anything. There are plenty of gaps in each class, even Elementalist. Everything however has to be taken into consideration, and it wasn’t. The whole thing feels fairly rushed in fact and really makes me wonder how far along they were with the other version (sword) before they switched and whether or not it woulda been better if they just made sword into Axe instead and kept going with their original plan.

Regardless…the Tempest situation just makes you appreciate the current Glint design. Even if the numbers don’t work out on Auras to be as good, it’s at least a different role that we didn’t have before and that’s what Specializations are all about.

Roy’s our boy

I mean what exactly would you have liked to see from the Ele Elite Spec? A Greatsword melee like the Necro? A Condi or Power bow? I mean what could they have added that offered a different playstyle to the Ele. A straight up melee build like the Necro is the only thing I could think of that they lack. The have great damage builds both Condi and Power and they are one of the best Healing and Support classes in the game. They can also be excellent bruisers. The argument that they are “already really good” is valid because they are so well rounded that even the devs couldn’t find a gap to fill with their Elite Spec. The Rev was designed with the knowledge of receiving an Elite Spec and honestly it doesn’t seem like a complete class without it. The Guardian has had the worst ranged options of any class in the game since launch and finally got something halfway decent. So you tell me what is worse. Having those 2 classes (who essentially crutch on those Elite Specs to provide them with essential things they lack) not be functional minus their Elite Spec or have Ele’s Elite Spec fail to add something new to their already perfect kit?

Griffith.7238:

Kodiak.3281:

Again it all comes down to design for anything. There are plenty of gaps in each class, even Elementalist. Everything however has to be taken into consideration, and it wasn’t. The whole thing feels fairly rushed in fact and really makes me wonder how far along they were with the other version (sword) before they switched and whether or not it woulda been better if they just made sword into Axe instead and kept going with their original plan.

Regardless…the Tempest situation just makes you appreciate the current Glint design. Even if the numbers don’t work out on Auras to be as good, it’s at least a different role that we didn’t have before and that’s what Specializations are all about.

Roy’s our boy

I mean what exactly would you have liked to see from the Ele Elite Spec? A Greatsword melee like the Necro? A Condi or Power bow? I mean what could they have added that offered a different playstyle to the Ele. A straight up melee build like the Necro is the only thing I could think of that they lack. The have great damage builds both Condi and Power and they are one of the best Healing and Support classes in the game. They can also be excellent bruisers. The argument that they are “already really good” is valid because they are so well rounded that even the devs couldn’t find a gap to fill with their Elite Spec. The Rev was designed with the knowledge of receiving an Elite Spec and honestly it doesn’t seem like a complete class without it. The Guardian has had the worst ranged options of any class in the game since launch and finally got something halfway decent. So you tell me what is worse. Having those 2 classes (who essentially crutch on those Elite Specs to provide them with essential things they lack) not be functional minus their Elite Spec or have Ele’s Elite Spec fail to add something new to their already perfect kit?

• A condition based spec
• A defensive based spec that doesn’t rely on boons
• A spec that encourages staying in an atunement, (they tried this but the mechanic is bad, they could have used a “synergy” bar where it increases and unlocks benifits the longer your in it. Maybe paired with a burst/overload ability ie: not a 4 second channel…)
• A true melee cleave spec (im talking 130 range) with auto attack chains useful in ALL attunes.
• idk maybe an actual elite ability…
• A high burst spec that can match mesmer/theif with survivability

Ele have had 1 spec since launch in spvp, the current one, bet you cant name another class like that. We wanted something viable to break the mold, not the same kittening role that will either A be better and overshadow, or B be worse and be forgotten, and thats what tempest is. They can only buff overloads (a poorly designed mechanic) so much before they become OP and finally become useful, and no one wants that…

Proposal: rename the class in “Royvenant”

OneKlicKill.4285:

Sylent.3165:

OneKlicKill.4285:

Have you seen the ele forums today? You guys were blessed by the 6, the pale tree, supported by the char legions, gifted the patents of the asura, and declared legends by the norn.

Truthfully the ele forum made me kinda sick. Elementalist in my opinion was already one of the strongest classes in game that could do more then any other class already. Yet people are in an uproar because now was added to the class. I personally enjoyed it in beta.

The tempest mechanics are trash though, mechanically they are bad, as a trait line they are bad, what the spec brings to the table is nothing we couldn’t do. the elite is god tier bad.

The devs took no input from weeks of feedback and an overwhelming amount of suggestions and improvements/alteration ideas of improving the tempest, all aspects.

Its appalling that they can disregard an entire community like that, its no wonder everyone hates the devs over there, I completely support them in that.

See, eles have it good.

The same dev who’s responsible for them is the same guy who does the thief.
Except he still pays more attention to the Ele, because he’s openly admitted to not playing the thief, forgot the skill names and changes he made during the 23’rd patch, and mentioned building a “strong concept” of a condi build in a weapon combination that literally does not have any DoT access. It’s like saying someone’s come up with a great new condi build based solely on the air attunement… what?

P.S. A variety of the thief’s skills/traits are still not fixed or changed yet from the 6/23 patch. Most notably, the heal getting a 20% cooldown increase with a proposed 10% healing increase and healing power ratio increase to compensate. The healing still hasn’t been bumped up on either of the two.

Kodiak.3281:

Dragon Hunter is a predominately ranged Guardian something it lacked.

Ehhhhhhh not really. Other than the longbow (which has no CC to KEEP enemies back other than a passive gimmick trait), there’s really nothing ranged about the Dragonhunter. And even then, it’s really not a new playstyle. It’s a trap ranger wannabe.

Guardians are definitely not in any better shape than Eles as far as this whole “elite spec” thing is concerned.

Black Box.9312:

Kodiak.3281:

Dragon Hunter is a predominately ranged Guardian something it lacked.

Ehhhhhhh not really. Other than the longbow (which has no CC to KEEP enemies back other than a passive gimmick trait), there’s really nothing ranged about the Dragonhunter. And even then, it’s really not a new playstyle. It’s a trap ranger wannabe.

Guardians are definitely not in any better shape than Eles as far as this whole “elite spec” thing is concerned.

So you’re saying that over the three year life of the game; most, if not all, of the current professions have been steadily pigeon-hole’d into a single “Best Build” as their options have either been nerfed into irrelevance or reworked into counter-intuitive version of themselves which are only useful at pretending to be a different profession’s pigeon-hole?

You could ask someone who mains engineer what role their weapons provide that their kits don’t do better, it’s not a matter of the kits being the best option, it’s a matter of their main weapons are irrelevant. You could ask a thief main how they plan to survive an extended combat scenario without relying heavily on stealth, it’s not a matter of stealth being a very good solution to slowly losing a fight; it’s a matter of the thief having no other way to protect their tiny health pool. There’s a terrible design point that all the base professions suffer from, and it’s not a matter of just looking at what they have that works and telling them not to complain, it’s a matter of having a wide variety of “options” and there being a correct choice.

Just think, if any profession has a choice between 5-7 different weapon skill sets and 5-7 elite skills, but 90% of players use the same weapon set and the same elite skill, then those “options” feel wasted, and the game feels unloved. (keep in mind building video games is a huge endeavour and takes a lot of time and effort simply to produce a facsimile of a working game and the results I’ve been discussing here are what it seems like from a player’s perspective without good communication from the developers)

Overworld.9613:

Black Box.9312:

Kodiak.3281:

Dragon Hunter is a predominately ranged Guardian something it lacked.

Ehhhhhhh not really. Other than the longbow (which has no CC to KEEP enemies back other than a passive gimmick trait), there’s really nothing ranged about the Dragonhunter. And even then, it’s really not a new playstyle. It’s a trap ranger wannabe.

Guardians are definitely not in any better shape than Eles as far as this whole “elite spec” thing is concerned.

So you’re saying that over the three year life of the game; most, if not all, of the current professions have been steadily pigeon-hole’d into a single “Best Build” as their options have either been nerfed into irrelevance or reworked into counter-intuitive version of themselves which are only useful at pretending to be a different profession’s pigeon-hole?

You could ask someone who mains engineer what role their weapons provide that their kits don’t do better, it’s not a matter of the kits being the best option, it’s a matter of their main weapons are irrelevant. You could ask a thief main how they plan to survive an extended combat scenario without relying heavily on stealth, it’s not a matter of stealth being a very good solution to slowly losing a fight; it’s a matter of the thief having no other way to protect their tiny health pool. There’s a terrible design point that all the base professions suffer from, and it’s not a matter of just looking at what they have that works and telling them not to complain, it’s a matter of having a wide variety of “options” and there being a correct choice.

Just think, if any profession has a choice between 5-7 different weapon skill sets and 5-7 elite skills, but 90% of players use the same weapon set and the same elite skill, then those “options” feel wasted, and the game feels unloved. (keep in mind building video games is a huge endeavour and takes a lot of time and effort simply to produce a facsimile of a working game and the results I’ve been discussing here are what it seems like from a player’s perspective without good communication from the developers)

I really don’t know what point you’re trying to get across. Are you agreeing with me, or arguing the opposite?

I think there are a few misconceptions about the tempest.

The biggest is that the tempest offers no new way of playing. There certainly is a new playstyle in the overloads. I’ve experienced a different feel when using the tempest, others I’ve talked to and read reviews from have experienced it… it’s just that if anyone says so in the elementalist forum at the moment, it gets drowned out in the echo chamber. I think, however, that ArenaNet did themselves a disservice when they presented it as a spec for dagger users – dagger eles already have plenty of close-range capability and they don’t gain much from substituting overloads into their established rotations. Where it seems to shine best is going with sceptre/warhorn, or even staff, and using the overloads to make attack runs while maintaining a stand-off capability between overloads.

Now, it’s understandable that it may not be a style that will appeal to everyone, particularly the people who were dreaming up what a sword ele might be like, but it’s very different to not offering a new way of playing at all.

I’ve also seen a few complaints that seem to be based on not understanding how the mechanics actually work (for instance, people have said that it’s not mobile, when the truth is that not only does overloading not root you, but it grants Swiftness, and the mechanic of having an effect in a radius means you can move without worrying about facing).

Now, that’s not to say that the tempest doesn’t have problems. Lack of CC protection with a mechanic based on extended channel times is one. A rubbish-tier elite skill (seriously, Rebound would probably have been awesome in GW1, but this isn’t GW1) is another. But there is a lot of complaining which, at best, appears to be misdirected and might risk the more refined criticism being lost in the noise.

With all that said, it certainly is true that Roy and the other people on the revenant team do seem to have been a lot more responsive to feedback. That said, this could be a mix of the revenant, being an entirely new profession rather than a single elite specialisation, has a lot more kinks to iron out (and possibly more at stake too – let’s face it, the revenant as an entire profession being a flop would be more of a disaster than the tempest being a flop). If the rumour about the tempest lead being on vacation is true, that’s probably not helping, and could be regarded as being poor timing – on the other hand, they deserve to be able to take leave just like any other job in a civilised world, and without knowing how big an outcry the tempest would get and probably knowing that there are a few months more to iron out the kinks, having just finished the first draft that was presentable to the public probably is a good time to take a break, especially since it’s possible the tempest team pulled long hours to get it ready before the BWE.

draxynnic.3719:

The biggest is that the tempest offers no new way of playing. There certainly is a new playstyle in the overloads. I’ve experienced a different feel when using the tempest, others I’ve talked to and read reviews from have experienced it…

I’ll avoid going into detail about everything else but I do agree that the overload mechanic would be a new playstle.

The unfortunate part is it doesn’t work with 90% of the current class and its mechanics. Ele has 2 useful auto attacks, its only burst spec is based on swapping. And nearly all of our defensive capability are located in water/earth (non damaging attunes) and generated via swapping attune.

On top of this, we only have 1 form of stability generation making it nearly useless in pvp, you cant dodge while channeling making pve impossible. [I wont comment on wvw, I don’t spend much time there] (all this not even considering the damage or utility output or lack there of and the fact we have the lowest armor/hp in the game to be point blank channeling, do you even churning earth?)

Without providing a weapon that can supplement the extra time required in an attune with defense and offense the concept of staying in a attune as a mechanic is bad.

If they wanted to generate an anti constant swap play-style there were much better ways to go about it, and they would have had to include traits/utilities/weapons to supplement it. Make increased benifits the longer you stay in that youd normally get from rotating. Unlock teirs of new skills activatable by the attune similar to a kit weapon swap or something. maybe upgraded skills or shorter cds, higher damage mods etc.

The concept wasn’t bad. The execution was just abysmal.

sure, DH ranged oriented, lol. Longbow (at least in last beta) was crap compared to scepter+focus/torch, and traps are all but ranged.

DH is just Braham trying to be a pet-less Ranger with his mother’s bow.

@OneKlickKill: That’s probably a bit more useful criticism. Personally, I’m inclined to think that the tempest probably works best with scepter, in terms of interactions of mechanics and capabilities… but this is problematic in that the scepter is simply not competitive at the moment. Buffing scepter so that it is actually competitive may actually be the best fix for the tempest.

Regarding attunement switching: Effective use of tempest seems to be largely about staying in an attunement for five seconds, overloading, possibly firing off anything that recharged during the overload, than swapping. So the ‘dead time’ is limited a bit that way.