Guild Wars 2

We’re barely a month away from launch and we still don’t know what will happen with racial skills for sure. I’m positive that they must have decided this already. Will we just be the only profession without them?

Think it fair to say that the final word was there in the beta tests. If it not in there now then they wont be available.
Most of them are useless anyways. But I guess so are some the utilities we get. Still if you could pick racials then it be a Norn-fest which would suck

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

I’m crossing my fingers for racial skills, they suck but they still might usable in place of some of the not used skills. Or if they want the extra work they could make them have no cd and use energy only. Ha ha I’m just imagining being able to summoning like 20 of the useless norn wurms. Would be awesome. =)

The only problem with Revenants being able to use Racial skills is that it will pretty much force people into playing certain races as there are some racial abilities (Asuran and Sylvari) that just shine above the others.

I would like for Racial abilities to be usable on the Revenant though.. It’d push for the Abilities to actually not suck. (Looking at you Jalis taunt)

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

The only problem with Revenants being able to use Racial skills is that it will pretty much force people into playing certain races as there are some racial abilities (Asuran and Sylvari) that just shine above the others.

I would like for Racial abilities to be usable on the Revenant though.. It’d push for the Abilities to actually not suck. (Looking at you Jalis taunt)

Nah, I would still use a Char, and their racial skills are really really bad.

Besides, you get new “racial” skills. You’re the only folks who get to use Dwarf, Demon, Centaur and Dragon radials.

Roy since you are in the forums right now do we get a BWE changes thread for rev again or do we have to wait for the next BWE to see those?

Nice thanks a lot

Valfaros.6908:

Roy since you are in the forums right now do we get a BWE changes thread for rev again or do we have to wait for the next BWE to see those?

If I’m not mistaken, they want to get all of the class change threads ready to release them at once. Likely because of the issues cause from the delay on Ele/guardians at time. Just an assumption.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Valfaros.6908:

Roy since you are in the forums right now do we get a BWE changes thread for rev again or do we have to wait for the next BWE to see those?

Yes. soon™ there will be an upcoming changes thread.

Can you make Karl answer some Ele beta concerns too?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

Thanks for the reply Roy!
It’s sad, I really like using battle cry on charr. A Revenant shouting “Remember Ascalon!” would’ve been amazing. Sad news, but I guess it’s good to finally have a confirmation.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

STILL NO FINAL WORD ON MISTFIRE WOLF!
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Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

STILL NO FINAL WORD ON MISTFIRE WOLF!
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Pretty likely that is considered sorta like a racial skill, as you can’t access it in pvp, so I would rule that one out as well

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

Roy,

Ask someone at Anet to make Mistfire wolf a minipet and give it to all those who bought the heroic edition.

This way, people won’t feel like they’ve wasted their money when they decide to upgrade it for the wolf and learn the hard way that they won’t be able to use it on their revenant.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Kidel.2057:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

STILL NO FINAL WORD ON MISTFIRE WOLF!
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Pretty likely that is considered sorta like a racial skill, as you can’t access it in pvp, so I would rule that one out as well

Unlike racial skill, mistfire wolf won’t require any energy adjustment, plus it’s only 1 skill. It doesn’t really need any change.

Plus it’s something that people spent money on.

Why not have a new core legend just for the racials, or a customizable one . . . .since Revenant is already getting shafted in the utilities department with one less set than every other class.

We already got a traitline that doesnt have a legend connected to it, why not have a utility set too

really disappointed that you guys ddin’t think of a way to incorporate racials into the Rev(but i love the rev and it will be my main, mainly why im disappointed)

From reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3kyikj/revenant_will_not_be_getting_racials/cv1n7qi

They should take this opportunity to redesign them, or even remove them.

The best way would be to tie the important visual and thematic elements to other skills, and then just remove the rest. The key of racials should lie in aesthetics, not gameplay.

For example:

Asura racials

• Save the elite skills for a future specialization: Golemancer Engineer (Scepter).
• Remove or relocate the rest of the skills.

Charr racials

• Save the unique skills for a future specialization: Gunner Warrior (Pistol).

Norn racials

Note: The racial transformations of the norn are inherent to their “biology”, so it’s kinda hard to make them work without ruining their lore. I couldn’t find a 100% satisfying solution.

• Option 1: Move the racial transformations to emotes. Norn can now type the specific form emote and get a 5min tonic buff. They can get out of the transformation early using emotes as well. Unfortunately, they should keep the weapons in their spirit forms. To compensate, the other races could have their own emotes as well, where they summon the different flags of their race or other eye candy. Charr summon the flag of a legion, asura a toy golem doing the dance of a college, humans recite prays to the gods, and sylvari recite Ventari’s teachings.
• Option 2: Link the transforms to specific skills in each profession. When a norn uses one of these skins, he gets a custom aesthetic transformation. For example, warrior’s physical elite, Rampage, could transform you into bear. Thief’s stealth skills could transform yo into leopard. The inconvenience of this idea is that it transforms your character even if you don’t want to.
• Option 3: Save the elite skills for a future specialization: Shaman/Slayer Revenant (Greatsword or Greataxe). Based on Asgeir Dragonrender, the first norn to injure Jormag. Each Spirit of the Wild is an utility that transforms the user.
• Remove or relocate the rest of the skills.

Human racials

• Option 1: Save the elite skills for a future specialization: Dervish Elementalist (Longbow). Based on elemental transforms, each god would fill one specific element: Balthazar for fire, Grenth for water, Dwayna for air, Melandru for earth, Kormir for healing, Lyssa for arcane.
• Option 2: Save the elite skills for a future specialization: Dervish Revenant (Greatsword). Utilities based on transforms.
• Option 3: Save each god for a different future specialization: Grenth for necromancer, Lyssa for mesmer, Balthazar for warrior, Kormir for guardian, Melandru for ranger, and Dwayna for elementalist. These specializations would all have the same new utility family type, and an elite based on a transform around their specific god. For example, Balthazar could temporarily give horns and fiery skin.
• Remove or relocate the rest of the skills.

Sylvari racials

• Save the unique skills for a future specialization: Botanist Ranger (Scepter).

I think this would be one of the best solutions to the problem. Racials were a bad idea to begin with, and their only purpose was aesthetic, which we can already achieve in other non-gameplay ways.

As a new player that was looking to main a norn revenant this really frustrates me. I understand gameplay wise this is an issue but I was REALLY looking forward to being able to transform. Kind of disappointing. Why not add racials where you cant swap stances just for flavor and fun. There has to be a way.

This isn’t fair, some of the racials (sylvari, mistfire wolf) are sometimes better than usual utilities. Besides, how can ANYBODY play a norn and not be able to transform? Now it’s not only bad, but also messing up the lore of the game. I might rethink playing revenant right now.

Suggestions:

• add energy cost versions of the skills for revenants
• make the racial skills stay in place after swapping a legend

>> would muddy the purity of each legends skill set

It’s not that anyone is forced to use the racial skills, everyone can choose to use them or not. Yes it would destroy ventari legend skillbar if you take healing racial skill but let’s be honest, the whole summoning-tablet mechanic is clunky and feels slow (the tablet should summon on swap and follow the revenant)

(or just disable racial skills only for ventari legend – the lazy way)

Racials wouldn’t really make sense unless they were bound with extra Legend for each race.

If you keep the racial skills as they are now (aside from healing) how could it possibly not work? Does it make you stronger? If anything it will make you weaker… but isn’t it up to us to choose? Basically every single racial skill has an extremely long cd and terrible effect, why not let us swap a skill for it? Who cares if it doesn’t cost energy it still has a huge cd for a crummy effect. Just saying.

At least give us mistfire wolf, or at least convert mistfire to energy usage!

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

I’m not going to lie, this really bugs me. Not even being given the choice to use the racial skills seems pretty poor, especially since one of the biggest critiques the Revenant has been given is lack of diversity. Is there really no way to allow people to select racial traits on a Revenant for the 2 individual legends you have equipped?

Also, I’m agreeing with the people asking for a Mistfire Wolf mini pet at the very least.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

I have to dispute this reasoning. The racial skills are already watered down versions of other skills. The only reason to consider racial skills troublesome is because they dont rely on the energy costs, which is the revenant’s insignia flagship when it comes to skill balance.

This means that players would have access to skills outside the energy flow which would make the class harder to balance (for good or ill). We’re looking at skills that are “poor man’s” versions of other skills, and only one or two are worth noticing (Sylvari’s Take Root and Norn’s Become the bear, both of which are elite skills).

I agree that racials would muddle the legends, but the lack of avaliable skills per legend makes the class feel very shoehorned, which is a sensation racial skills have succesfully fixed on other classes (Asuran Condition Mesmers, Elementalist’s arguable elite skill usefulness as examples).

So, why not enable racial skills on revenant, for BWE3, and seeing what do people come up with before taking the final decission on this part of the design?

I don’t see why it should be disabled. I suppose you could just make revenant versions of all the racials by throwing some energy costs on them on top of a cooldown so there isn’t an energy advantage. Just make all the elite skills 50 energy plus their normal cooldowns. And 30 energy for other utilities plus normal cooldowns.

Let them have racial skills, just add a 101 energy cost.

What? No racial skills? That’s personally disappointing for me.

Because I couldn’t get the healing skill for Shiro’s legend to work well and I was going to replace it with the Human Racial because at least I understand that. Also, Mistfire Wolves on Revenant? It wrote itself.

But I guess that’s just our loss. We’re REALLY forced to swap Legends and stuff. And unless I missed something in BWE we’ll only have access to 2 heals ever at any time? :/

I won’t lie. Not a fan. But I don’t think any amount of complaints can change this.

I just play for fun. :p Even if my sets are scrubbish.

A part of me has this sinking feeling that Anet realizes the racial skills, though having really poor effects for the cooldowns, are potentially powerful enough, especially with legend swapping (2 utility bars) full of them to make race a consideration when building your Rev lol

I think that may also speak to how awkward and clunky I’ve thought the legend and utility swap system to be. I’m thinking that I’m likely not the only one. Maybe it will be different after the number cruncher and mechanics gurus have dug the layman’s explanations out of all the trait and skill interactions for people like me.

But right now, for each legend there is at least 1 utility that I look at and have no earthly clue what it does, or how it could possibly be useful or what interaction it may have with it’s spec… ventari and mallyx both were/are full of things like this to my rather casual, and often solo-playing PvE eyes.

Which had me wondering about using more familiar skills with more straightforward effects, even at the loss of whatever some of those skills are supposed to offer.

Legendary Mistfire Wolf Stance, please!

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

I dont see why they just didnt give us weaker Racial Legend to handle Racials. They can be weak skills like all other racials in the game, but be set up as a Legend of its own. Something people use in fluff.

@Roy,

Have you ever considered making a skill number 4 for each non-Glint legend? I.E. not everyone will want to use Jallis purely for tanking, they might want to use it defensively on an offensive character and thus can’t make use for the taunt. Wouldn’t it be interesting to provide an option to swap one utility skill for an extra option? That way while the legend might have a “purity” theme, it also gives more options and depth to each legend.

The obvious solution would be racial legends wouldn’kitten Just one per race, hardly unreasonable.

Charr – Pyre Fierceshot, or Kalla Scorchrazer
Asura – Snaff, Gadd or Vekk
Sylvari – Tougher but Killeen could be a good candidate
Norn – Jora, Magni the Bison, Olaf Olaffson, or Svanir
Human – Nick the traveler (lol), Kormir, Evennia or Livia (assuming they are dead)

Scorchrazor*

Ronan would be good for sylvari, and Wynne

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

No you didn’t mention it. I’ve been practically begging you in every thread you post to and in at least two threads I’ve created myself to answer this.

Can we assume that you’re set on leaving Revenant with no flexibility as to their slotted utilities? Having two bars, zero customization to them, and a mechanic that restricts the use of all of your skills isn’t really a good trade-off. At least give the profession some nuance – can you please answer if there is any consideration for this?

a mistfire puppy would be a nice replacement for the loss of the wolf elite, it seems stupid that the class that actually uses the mists is the only class that can’t summon an entity from the mists.

plus, I can forsee this being hell for customer services:

“hey, I just bought the hero pack but I haven’t got my mistfire wolf elite”

“sorry, your class can’t use that.”

“what. well can I at least get a refund then?”

“sorry, we can’t give refunds for gem store purchases”

Urgh this hurts me. Hurts me right in my face.

The easy way to balance it would be to make a racial skill occupy that slot on ALL legends. In other words, by equipping it, you lock yourself out of a skill choice in every legend.

And while they’re not balanced around the energy mechanic, they ARE balanced around not using any resource, meaning they’re entirely cooldown controlled unlike normal rev skills.

Finally, as other people have already mentioned, they’re pretty dilute versions of skills which other classes would otherwise get. Unless there’s some mechanical advantage (i can’t think of) to giving rev access to something they otherwise would not be able to do, balance is unlikely to be problematic.

FINALLY finally… Pretty pweeze? =3

Calcifire.1864:

a mistfire puppy would be a nice replacement for the loss of the wolf elite, it seems stupid that the class that actually uses the mists is the only class that can’t summon an entity from the mists.

plus, I can forsee this being hell for customer services:

“hey, I just bought the hero pack but I haven’t got my mistfire wolf elite”

“sorry, your class can’t use that.”

“what. well can I at least get a refund then?”

“sorry, we can’t give refunds for gem store purchases”

Mistfire Wolf skill however doesn’t have any of the mentioned problems that racial skills have. It could just be added like that, with cd.
It’s a pretty weak skill anyway, it’s just for roleplay. I don’t see any problem in just adding it.

The fact is that people spent money for it and now will be unable to use it on their main character.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

Sad quaggan is sad :’(

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/158470480615166839/

I’m not even someone who uses or cares about racials at all, but I think its pretty shady and immoral to sell you mist-fire wolf the first go around and now sell you a class you cant even use it on. Will the next expansion have skins that Revenant and other classes cant wear because it’s not “Pure” or “thematic”?

Seems pretty silly and its a shame.

I always thought it would be nice if there was a racial legend.

Of course the way racial skills are set up right now with multiple elites and not always enough utility skills to fill the bar rather ruins that idea, but it’s not to say that racial skills couldn’t be altered in future to always give one heal, 3 utility and one elite. Revenants could then have access to a legend of their own race in order to use those skills…if people really wish to play with that kind of flavour. Might be a laugh in open world.

Really sad to read that, Revenants will all be carbon-copies of each other, that’s really a pity to see the most original profession of the game being given so few customization options. I know racial skills aren’t useful (most of them), but removing them from an already limited profession… No good. Revenants have the highest potential of variety, and end up being all the same… As I said (maaaaany times), just one more utility per legend would help create Revenants a bit different from one another. For example (I copy myself from another topic):

• Mallyx Wild Smash similar to Warrior’s Stomp, or Summoning Shadows that blinds nearby foes.
• Shiro Echoing Banishment short-range skill that makes the enemy shadowstep backwards.
• Ventari Pacifism short to mid-range skill that stuns enemies (and allies, like Berserker’s Head Butt) so they cannot attack (1 to 3 enemies maximum).
• Jalis Dwarven Battle Stance your next 5 attacks are unblokable/block next 5 attacks.
• Glint Jagged Crystal Skin gain Retaliation but move a bit slower (maybe?).

They don’t need to be balanced that much, and it would help Revenants feel different, not all the same…

Honestly, i’d rather have them spend time adding 1 utility per legend than add racial skill you’ll only use 3 times in a year in pve.
But those are just my 2 coppers.

ronpierce.2760:

Besides, you get new “racial” skills. You’re the only folks who get to use Dwarf, Demon, Centaur and Dragon radials.

I like this from a thematic point of view; the Revenant sacrifices the legacy of their own people to receive the otherwise lost legacies of the legends.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Bitoku Kishi.8346:

I’m guessing they might be able to be slotted into any Legend, which could be pretty convenient to replace some of the less useful Legend skills…

The problem is that they are balanced around having 1 skill bar and not 2 for the right half of your bar. They are also not made with energy in mind and would need to be changed to work with revenant, but would muddy the purity of each legends skill set playstyle. I thought I had mentioned it before on one of the initial streams, but racial skills won’t be usable on revenant.

Why not just say it like it is: you are afraid that access to the raicials would make race choice matter during character creation, in a way that it currently does not, when creating a Revenant. Why use all those fancy words, when the truth is the skills themselves were conceived as underpowered, so putting them on different profession without touching their cooldowns is not not going to change that. The only thing that would change is being able to have more racials due to two utility bars, however, how could picking more underpowered skills be a balance problem (it definitely won’t make you owerpowered, besides no-one in their right mind would load up an all racials loadout).

To be completely honest, while I understand all the reasons when it comes to purity of purpose, and Ventari in particular on that front, it’ll still suck that we technically loose out on a feature of the game due to our profession choice. Of course this also likely applies to a flair skill we even paid money for, though when it comes to that it sucks more due to the fact that I think Mistfire Wolf is an extremely cool looker and fits thematically well with Revenant than it does because it was a bonus in the original collectors edition.

Why not just remove raicial skills from the entire game and be done with it? (If that sounded bitter good, because right now I am even if I predicted that this was coming).

Gaaroth.2567:

Honestly, i’d rather have them spend time adding 1 utility per legend than add racial skill you’ll only use 3 times in a year in pve.
But those are just my 2 coppers.

Yes i’d rather have this too, just feel like we need one or the other atleast

Rev is way too simplified and predictable atm.

Crise.9401:

besides no-one in their right mind would load up an all racials loadout).

I actually made an engie with all human racials because they get that fun interaction with toolbelt and get double the prayers. Felt sorta like playing a priestess. It was a silly build but it was fun while it lasted haha.

Lonami.2987:

• Option 1: Save the elite skills for a future specialization: Dervish Elementalist (Longbow). Based on elemental transforms, each god would fill one specific element: Balthazar for fire, Grenth for water, Dwayna for air, Melandru for earth, Kormir for healing, Lyssa for arcane.

TBH I think a bow ele should be called a BowMage. Come on man! BOWMAGE!

Slapping Dervish on everything seems unimaginative >.>

The simple solution would be to add a ‘Racial’ Legend for each Rev that adds empty slots for the 6-0 skills allowing players to customize their bars. However the big issue with that is none of the racial skills are currently Rev-ready. What I mean by that is the racial skills were only designed to work on a single utility bar set. Currently, our utility skills are a little sub-par, but we have the advantage of have two full right halves of our bars. Being able to swap between a Rev utility bar and a Racial utility bar would be like giving us the potential of 1 1/2 utility bars because of the current potential/balance of racial skills.

So in order to put the ‘Racial’ bar at the same level as the other Rev skills they would need to be reworked into consuming energy (since this is one of the core mechanics of the class) and would need to have their potential reworked to accommodate the class’s capable of multiple utility bars.

Nonetheless, how many players make use of those racial skills on a regular basis? I understand that this is an issue with versatility, but at this point in the development stage I’d much rather the dev team focus on more critical issues than an issue that is mostly for flavor.