Guild Wars 2

Underwhelming.

Weapon swapping was given to the Revenant because of player feedback. But I feel this change has caused Rev to be a class which is cumbersome to play, lacks synergy between stances and weapon abilities, and just plain feels awkward and half-baked.

Weapon abilities do not seem to have much harmony with one another, and with few exceptions offer little “flow” between sets. They were never meant to be used together, and you can definitely feel it.

Legend channels are already clearly pigeonholed into certain weapon sets, but weapon swapping confuses the issue and results in overall poor design.

It would have been a far better choice to allow access to only 1 weapon set, but have the weapon skills function differently depending on the stance (so your entire skill bar would change depending on the Legend you’re channelling — not simply the utility skills).

I’m having fun with it.

I’ve been primarily using it to swap between ranged and melee. Engage with sword/axe and shiro, then if things are looking bad swap to hammer and use shiro’s “Riposting Shadows” to get some distance. Maybe also swap legend to get some healing in (I’ve been experimenting between Jalis and Ventari, unsure which I’ll stick with). Or just use impossible odds + enchanted daggers to get some quick hammer attacks and healing in.

I’m finding Shiro and Jalis work kinda well together for me. Malyx just isn’t my style and I’m currently feeling Ventari works best if you’re primarily using him and playing a support role with a different legend as more of a backup plan (but I haven’t played with him a lot).

But yea for me the addition of weapon swap has been an improvement to how the Revenant plays.

Kaiden Valor.7163:

I’ve been primarily using it to swap between ranged and melee.
the addition of weapon swap has been an improvement to how the Revenant plays.

^ This

I’m loving it.
Learn to use it correctly. You can swap ranged-melee, but also any weapon + staff to cure conditions.

And changing skills depending on stance is WRONG. stop suggesting it. Stance change is needed to get energy back or double heal. I don’t want to be locked on different skills for 10 seconds

Staff has a lot of synergy with sword. You get a good damaging knock back, a block, condition removal just by swapping.

I’m really enjoying weapon swap, it takes a little getting used to with both weapon swap and legend swap but the ability to burst down a group with mace/axe AoE then switch to swords to finish off that last standing target with UA is so good.

I am running mace/axe and sword/axe and put aoe-torment on the sword.. hit #3 and mass torment on a mob of units. Then back to mace again since rest of the sword stuff does not seem useful for condi build. Seems fine to me >.>

weapon swap made the class finally feel complete

if it’s too complex for you to use, just don’t use it. I feel it works perfectly and synergy is fine. Switching weapons while keeping the same legend is great.

I really don’t understand those who don’t like it. Just don’t use it if you don’t like it

Sylent.3165:

I really don’t understand those who don’t like it. Just don’t use it if you don’t like it

From what I’ve read people where unhappy with the limitations on rev such as fixed utilities per legend, weapons tied (loosely) to legends and wanted more variety/customization. With the addition of weapon swap it seems the fixed builds issue isn’t going to go away.

Which is understandable I’m still not 100% on the fixed utilities I’d prefer more options but weapon swap has been nothing but a boon to rev in my opinion.

There are a number of ways the issue could be fixed, but all in all Rev feels pigeon-holed in everything it does, doesn’t flow together well… weapons don’t play nice together, channels don’t synergise at all. Feels clunky and sorely underpowered. Expected a lot more.

Zev.3407:

weapon swap made the class finally feel complete

if it’s too complex for you to use, just don’t use it. I feel it works perfectly and synergy is fine. Switching weapons while keeping the same legend is great.

It’s not a complexity issue. I main 3-kit Engi and Ele. I can handle swaps.

I’m saying the weapon sets are clearly meant for specific channels, so you basically have to take a certain weapon set for a certain channel because that’s all it’s meant for. It feels horribly restricted in terms of build and usage.

tbh I’m really liking the rev c:

I think its too late to really redesign the proffessions abilities to introduce that into their legends as it’d be a hard balancing job to do last minute, I feel the damage output is a tad too low but it defintly has potiental as it is and since the last time u can really feel the difference in strength your no longer just down state fodder..

sunnypsyop.3025:

I’m saying the weapon sets are clearly meant for specific channels

No, no, no.
NO.

The problem was that each weapon set was designed as a standalone. They honestly need to be reworked a bit to be more effective at certain roles.

Please stop saying that WS needs to be tied to the legend. Play Revenant correctly and you’ll notice that this is a bad idea.

And stop saying that weapons are tied to the legend, this is a lie. Lying is a bad thing.

Weapon swapping feels like an afterthought

Operator.6523:

Weapon swapping feels like an afterthought

It was a neverthought.

yet it’s vital for Revenant and no better solution has been provided.

Have to agree binding weapon swapping to legend swapping is not only terrible but just a dumb idea im personally tired of hearing about.

If you want to weapon swap when you Legend-swap do it yourself, stop being lazy and potentially trying to ruin it for those who swap when they need to.

Kidel.2057:

yet it’s vital for Revenant and no better solution has been provided.

better solution for what, weapon swap didn’t fix anything

Kidel.2057:

yet it’s vital for Revenant and no better solution has been provided.

More utilities for each legend. There’s literally not a single reason why there can’t be more than 3. It gives more depth and customization for each legend.

lighter.2708:

Kidel.2057:

yet it’s vital for Revenant and no better solution has been provided.

better solution for what, weapon swap didn’t fix anything

Here he is again.

It did. Now we can go ranged/melee and we can use more useful skills (like staff skills on a sword focused build). And those are just 2 reasons Roy mentioned in the POI, he mentioned 3, go watch it again.

I’m amazed you’re still so stubborn about it, even after trying. It’s a no brainer, weaponswap saved Revenant. Even without Shiro the class feels usable.

The biggest improvement is in WvW, where you can finally stay ranged and then swap to melee for some burst on 1vs1.

The class finally feels fun to use, stop ruining the fun for everybody. If 90% of the users are happy and thankful for weaponswap, maybe you could start considering the idea that you’ve been wrong.

I know it’s hard to admit, but yeah, you were wrong.
We’ve been trying weaponswap and it’s amazing. Deal with it, have a nice day.

Hammerguard.9834:

Kidel.2057:

yet it’s vital for Revenant and no better solution has been provided.

More utilities for each legend. There’s literally not a single reason why there can’t be more than 3. It gives more depth and customization for each legend.

That’s not a solution for not having the chance to switch between melee and ranged AA.

I’m not against more utilities for each legend however. That’s just a different matter.
I don’t see them coming however and that’s why. The philosophy wirth revenant is that you don’t get to customize your skills, but you customize your legend and you have 10 skills instead of 5.
If you don’t like it, then you probably shouldn’t play revenant. There are 8 more classes where you can customize utility skills.

I honestly dislike how much of a hand the community has in the creation of the Revenant. It just proves that Anet wasn’t able to do an adequate job on their own and that’s disheartening.

Hammerguard.9834:

I honestly dislike how much of a hand the community has in the creation of the Revenant. It just proves that Anet wasn’t able to do an adequate job on their own and that’s disheartening.

Sure, hate a company when it listens to feedback from the community.
Oh come on.

“hate”, what a lovely take on my comment…

Anyways, they clearly didn’t have a solid enough idea for Revenant. That’s all I’m saying. Major, fundemental gameplay mechanics are still up in the air.

add F2 F3 F4 F5 not all of them but atleast 1, and this 1 could be anything

here is lighter’s true color.
side note: he doesn’t know anything about me, just random insults.

Weaponswaop is staying, the community is happy with it and devs wanted it since before the first beta weekend.

Deal with it. You don’t like it? Don’t use it. Simple as that.

Kidel and Lighter, just to address you,you both need to work on your people skills. After seeing how you respond to others in the community, I’ve come to learn to take your “advice” and “feedback” with a grain of salt.

Weapon swap did help the class, however their implication of legends and swapping still feels like it’s lacking.

Shiro and swords are overall a great improvement. And being able to swap is a nice change of pace.

Jalis does still feel underwhelming, if it is intended to be tanky, however the heal is the best option in my opinion.

Mallyx still feels fine. To refer to something brought up in another thread, I disagree with the idea that transferred conditions should not stack. It’s a fundamental mechanic I. The game, and making this class in this legend not stack transferred conditions would give it an advantage. Give it to necros top then, so that when they tranfer conditions, they only transfer the condition without any stacks.

Big improvement from last pls of the rev though.

Lighter is actually right.. Youre always free to prove hes wrong by 1v1 him on your main class/rev. Ofc that wont happen for obvious reasons

And if the community is happy..what the thread doing here? Weapon skills doesnt work together and thats a fact. If you wear staff theres no reason to use sword, staff is decent on it own and sword doesnt bring anything to the tablet paired with staff. Both sword and staff are standalone weapons now with great damage (i actually think staff is better here) that can be paired olny with hammer in reality for long range.

skowcia.8257:

Lighter is actually right.. Youre always free to prove hes wrong by 1v1 him on your main class/rev. Ofc that wont happen for obvious reasons

Sure, a 1vs1 pvp match is the best way to decide if a mechanic is welcomed or not.
/irony

Yeah, nvm. But tbh i like a bit wep swap ;oo even tho i still disagree

I fail to see what that has to do with anything. Stay on topic.

Just a side note: I don’t insult, never. I may not agree with something, but I always try to be polite and discuss.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Legend channels are already clearly pigeonholed into certain weapon sets, but weapon swapping confuses the issue and results in overall poor design.

On this one in particular…

In my experience, it’s not actually the stance that is thematically linked with a particular weapon that is usually the best fit. Mace maybe, but Jalis really wants to be in the thick of it where Vengeful Hammers can have the best effect. Hammer, on the other hand, seems to work best with Ventari and, ironically, Shiro, both of which can make good use of their stance skills from a standoff position.

With the possible exception of Mallyx (since revenant is fairly light on damaging conditions apart from Mallyx/mace) all weapon/stance combinations have their synergies if you know how to use them. They may require using them differently, however.

That all being said, another reason for not binding weapon to legend (apart from enshrining relative mismatches like hammer Jalis) is that the revenant is already a profession which is lacking in customisability. Fixing weapon to revenant would basically mean that you’d only be free to make two decisions, and after that it’s just traits and gear.

draxynnic.3719:

sunnypsyop.3025:

Legend channels are already clearly pigeonholed into certain weapon sets, but weapon swapping confuses the issue and results in overall poor design.

On this one in particular…

In my experience, it’s not actually the stance that is thematically linked with a particular weapon that is usually the best fit. Mace maybe, but Jalis really wants to be in the thick of it where Vengeful Hammers can have the best effect. Hammer, on the other hand, seems to work best with Ventari and, ironically, Shiro, both of which can make good use of their stance skills from a standoff position.

With the possible exception of Mallyx (since revenant is fairly light on damaging conditions apart from Mallyx/mace) all weapon/stance combinations have their synergies if you know how to use them. They may require using them differently, however.

That all being said, another reason for not binding weapon to legend (apart from enshrining relative mismatches like hammer Jalis) is that the revenant is already a profession which is lacking in customisability. Fixing weapon to revenant would basically mean that you’d only be free to make two decisions, and after that it’s just traits and gear.

Thank you.
Expecially

Fixing weapon to revenant would basically mean that you’d only be free to make two decisions, and after that it’s just traits and gear.

I hate the idea of binding a weapon to a Legend. Aside from taking my character customization out of my hands, I tend to enjoy using weapons outside of their “destined” roles.

For instance, I like to use Jade Daggers while using a hammer to heal from a distance while doing a little extra damage. Especially if my other Legend’s heal is on cooldown. How about that, weapon swapping + legend swapping being used in inventive and useful ways. Who’da think it.

I’m loving the weapon swap. Given the higher skill level needed against HoT enemies, I believe that weapon swapping between a melee and ranged option is practically a requirement for some enemies.

Eggshells.1748:

Kaiden Valor.7163:

I’ve been primarily using it to swap between ranged and melee.
the addition of weapon swap has been an improvement to how the Revenant plays.

^ This

Agreed, and while there can and should be more synergy between trait lines, the argument the OP is trying to mak has nothing to do with weapon swap since the original beta allowed a single weapon but two stances (I.e. One stance would be in a worse situation since there’d be no possibility of pairing the most appropriate weapon).

I was playing shiro/jails yesterday with swords/hammer and felt there was modest synergy between the different sets. Overall, though, the utility skills all feel underwhelming to me on the whole.

I love the Revenant from a thematic standpoint and I do think there are things that are fun, but the inability to tweak utilities to suit our play style still feels like a problem.

I think maybe the answer lies in a rework of the trait lines. I think the traits should incorporate a plethora of effects that work together, that allow us to push the limited options in different directions. For instance torment and vulnerability could have secondary effects in other trait lines, crating more synergy between them.

WS should NOT be tied to legend please. For instance, I think Shiro/staff is actually a really nice combo. And I do not like using ventari as my second legend. To be honest Shiro works really well with most of the weapons. Locking weapons to legend would be awful.

Overall, I’m loving the weapons swap. I’m very happy they put it in.

I love the new Shiro addition to Rev.
Weapon swap rev is much better than without it because of range/melee ability, but I wish they would have done Revs based on weapon + Channeled Legend instead of a full swap. Now Heavy Soldier classes have 3 swappers but both scholar and adventurer professions have 2.

I like the Rev Idea… but it just isn’t as interesting with the way of implementation. If current build goes to launch, i may not even roll one.

Loving it.

Just Hammer or just Mace/Axe or just Staff before was really annoying to play. New system, once I got used to it, has been working out pretty great.

i am using swords with jalis all the time, the result is actually a nice burst damage with those whirling hammers, also hammer + shiro legend thanks to impossible odds quickness and long cast hammer skills. Overall hammer got a big improvement and i like it a lot. I am with those who say having the legends also change skill properties would have been a more elegant solution but weapon swap is working just fine for me.

Hey..to not let this topic die just yet. I have question cause most likely weapon swap will stay here.

Dont you all think that devastation should get minor fast hand like trait to reduce wep swap cd or even make it baseline? Engi can swap between kits without cd, ele has 4 attunements. So far in many cases running hammer/staff for example in most fights i was locked on in staff as swapping to hammer would kill me – from pvp pov.

Locking myself to a slow weapon for 10sec which need range to deal damage and lack kiting tools is really a bad idea, espesially when you fight on a point. I think 5sec swap is justiced when we compare rev to ele/engi. What do you guys think?

I don’t know what’s their reason to add cd to ws (on any class really). Whatever the reason I’m sure it’s the same for revenant. Engineer has no cd on ws but needs an utility slot (ok, still gets toolbelt skill, but well, there is a little bit of trade). Ele is a proof since has cd on attunement swap, but no cd on conjured weapons (2 of them summoned with 1 skill to make up for the limited skill use).

I think the best comparison for revenant is not engi, but something in between warrior and thief. 2 Legends are a trade for no customizable skill set, and energy is a trade for having 10 (supposedly good) skills instead of 5. Weaponswap is the same as warrior, and on both classes damage built over fight is greater then on the beginning (while thief has burst at the beginning and lower sustained).

I think that the current mechanic is balanced, while there should be some work on some skills and numbers.

I’m not welcoming cd on legendswap ooc to be honest. I like the current system A LOT.

I played the Revenant with weapon swap first. And it was fun of course, since it’s an amazing class in a great new map. But the thing is: while I was swapping weapons, I didn’t feel the need to swap legends so often. Since I can change the way my character plays with weapon swap, I don’t need a new set of utilities.

Then I stopped weapon swap, I made myself use only staff with Shiro/Ventari. And it was a thousand times better. The challenge that comes with it is so much more fun than your usual weapon swapping. You have to change yourself according to your utilities, it makes you play with them a lot more and engage a lot more in game. I managed to put out some good DPS with staff Shiro because it’s about the right side of the skill bar. I found every weapon synergies with every legend if you put some thought in it. This is not a hack n slash game, try some strategies and it’ll reward you greatly.

In conclusion: I believe weapon swap makes legends unnecessary thus should be removed, it’s against the whole idea of the class and only makes it basic and dull.

so they should just ignore all the people happy with the variety weaponswap brings just because you are not using that variety on your playstyle? it’s not like you’re damaged from ws anyway, lol.

And you know, you could use swords+staff and achieve the same results in terms of utility, but doing more damage on AA (WAY MORE) for free. Sword is simply the best weapon when low on energy. Any set thinked without weaponswap in mind just gets benefits from swapping to sword (as any full melee set swapping to staff for heal/cleanse).

I’m just saying that it makes the Revenant like any other class. It should be unique. If you want to weapon swap, go play Warrior or any other class really. Not all of them should be the same is what I’m saying.

And I’m damaged by it of course. I’m a lot less pushed to change legends which is THE PRIMARY MECHANIC of the class. Imagine an Ele without attunements. It takes away that special feeling to it. Makes it all dull and basic and like every other thing we have. Nothing new to see.