Guild Wars 2

Lets face it – everything is about energy and shifting invocations. There is no need to swap weapons at all. In fight, all I need is to press F1 and Im ready to continue.

There is no purporse for weapon swap in this class. Fight showed whats practical and what not.

I don’t know, I find it pretty handy in raids where I can swap from S/A to staff for some extra CC if needed.

That being said, the class was clearly designed without swapping and the addition of swap really hurt many skills that were nerfed (after being designed to be a dedicated weapon set) into oblivion.

hate being told to run staff for cc. I could live without weapon swap. And reduce the cd on legendswap to compensate.

For PvE ya there is no point.

However before weapon swap rev had some trouble in PvE and PvP due to the fact they could not swap between ranged and melee well like pretty much everyone else.

The problem with giving them weapon swap however was that they did so before all the classes full potential was known.
Thus once they got weapon swap they were too powerful and needed nerfs in other areas.

LucianDK.8615:

hate being told to run staff for cc. I could live without weapon swap. And reduce the cd on legendswap to compensate.

If legend swap were any lower in CD it would need to lose the stun break and trait for condition removal.

Otherwise it would be very OP in pvp.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

LucianDK.8615:

hate being told to run staff for cc. I could live without weapon swap. And reduce the cd on legendswap to compensate.

If legend swap were any lower in CD it would need to lose the stun break and trait for condition removal.

Otherwise it would be very OP in pvp.

With the current cooldowns and design of skills you would gain nothing from legend swap on let’s say 5 seconds.

ANet nerfed several skills after giving the revenant the ability to swap weapons. They would have to revert all these changes to keep the class viable.

Not true. Faster access to utility skills and refreshing energy.

The lenghty 10s limit makes it brutal to regularilly depend on utilities from your second legend. Like swapping to glint to heal, yet the teleport and snarebreak is stuck with shiro.

Plus a faster legend swap would make cleansing channel a lot more useful as well.

LucianDK.8615:

Not true. Faster access to utility skills and refreshing energy.

Glint Utilities have cooldowns between 15 and 45 seconds. So what do you expect from a 3 time legend swap during that interval?

The cooldown on the shiro skills are pretty low, but since the weapon skills also have their own cooldowns all you could do is quickness autoattacking while evading a few times.

KrHome.1920:

LucianDK.8615:

Not true. Faster access to utility skills and refreshing energy.

Glint Utilities have cooldowns between 15 and 45 seconds. So what do you expect from a 3 time legend swap during that interval?

The cooldown on the shiro skills are pretty low, but since the weapon skills also have their own cooldowns all you could do is quickness autoattacking while evading a few times.

We have other legends…

Malchior.5732:

We have other legends…

The day they will become viable in some way we can discuss about the purpose of a low/non cooldown legend swap.

The subject was: Could a shorter legend swap compensate a non existent weapon swap. And my point is: In the current state of revenant it can’t.

KrHome.1920:

Malchior.5732:

We have other legends…

The day they will become viable in some way we can discuss about the purpose of a low/non cooldown legend swap.

The subject was: Could a shorter legend swap compensate a non existent weapon swap. And my point is: In the current state of revenant it can’t.

And the day where they remove the Weapon Swap on revenant will never come, and thats good.
The class would be boring af without weapon swap.
Its good that they give revenants the weapon swap, dont know why people complain about that.

KrHome.1920:

Malchior.5732:

We have other legends…

The day they will become viable in some way we can discuss about the purpose of a low/non cooldown legend swap.

The subject was: Could a shorter legend swap compensate a non existent weapon swap. And my point is: In the current state of revenant it can’t.

That’s not easy to tell.
We would suddenly have a Mallyx that’s capable of spamming a lot more, a Glint that can reset much faster without having to blow cooldowns either (just pop all the good facets, swap, and swap back again in a few seconds for perma-Prot + Whatever for no penalty), and a much safer Ventari/Jalis (although probably still unused over the others).

EDIT:
People complain about it because the class obviously wasn’t designed with it in mind and we’re now eating a lot of nerfs because of it, some of which have kinda trampled over the entire point of playing Revenant in the first place.

I am still up for deleting wep swap but its not something that will happen.

It might thou, when they realize people are not swapping weapons but rather invocations.

Weapon swap is really useful in pvp. So no thanks. Only professions not having weapon swap are engi and elementalist and this only because ele has attunements and engi has kits. I don’t see any reason to remove weapon swap from revenant, rather just buff other weapons for pve to deal equal dmg with sword mainhand.

I love being able to swap to hammer if a boss goes out of reach (like the molten boss fractal where the boss can jump into the knock-back current).

Rev had no weapon swap once and it was AWFUL. No, thanks.

That’s your opinion. When I respect it, I fully disagree myself. Swapping weaponsets together with Legends would only limit flexibility.

As for shorter Legend swap CD it would just drive Revenant even further away from energy management into spamming skills.

Just when I thought I’ve seen it all after someone asked to ban GS from pvp…This pops up. Wow. I’m so glad 90% of the people in this thread are not part of the balance team. Sorry 2 legends and 2 weaponsets are too complicated for you. Don’t balance around pve. That’s ez kitten. You’ll kill rev’s viability in pvp if this happens. Wow. Just wow. /facepalm

Lettuce.2945:

Just when I thought I’ve seen it all after someone asked to ban GS from pvp…This pops up. Wow. I’m so glad 90% of the people in this thread are not part of the balance team. Sorry 2 legends and 2 weaponsets are too complicated for you. Don’t balance around pve. That’s ez kitten. You’ll kill rev’s viability in pvp if this happens. Wow. Just wow. /facepalm

Im sure i would roflstomp you hard by playing s/s only.. Sorry.

Burtnik.5218:

Lettuce.2945:

Just when I thought I’ve seen it all after someone asked to ban GS from pvp…This pops up. Wow. I’m so glad 90% of the people in this thread are not part of the balance team. Sorry 2 legends and 2 weaponsets are too complicated for you. Don’t balance around pve. That’s ez kitten. You’ll kill rev’s viability in pvp if this happens. Wow. Just wow. /facepalm

Im sure i would roflstomp you hard by playing s/s only.. Sorry.

Sure, I’ll take that bet. You retract your posts here after losing, ok? Oh btw, my rev has 7 hours on it. I’ll still whoop you ez. You on NA? Let’s go.

Im on EU babe! But not like it matters as i have uninstalled this garbage 3 weeks ago. Ps i have over 800h on rev so i dont even know what you want to do with 0 exp..

Also at this point i dont think your opinion matter either way.

Burtnik.5218:

Im on EU babe! But not like it matters as i have uninstalled this garbage 3 weeks ago. Ps i have over 800h on rev so i dont even know what you want to do with 0 exp..

Also at this point i dont think your opinion matter either way.

You would be surprised. My experiences multiclassing other classes have carried over to rev and translated quite easily. Weap swap is essential if you swap it properly with the legends in pvp. This is why I’m glad the game isn’t balanced around PvE. It’s quite dumbed down compared to the complexity offered in pvp at high levels. I can promise you that you wouldn’t beat my rev despite its “youth” just because I have superior knowledge of the game over you. By the way… <——Dueler.

And it’s funny that you said “at this point your opinion doesn’t matter either way” when you uninstalled the game 3 weeks ago. I think you should look in a mirror. Mad because bad. Have a nice day troll.

Oh and btw.. wep swap was added due to pve complains about being unable to swap between close and range in case if you didnt know about it

Lettuce.2945:

Burtnik.5218:

Im on EU babe! But not like it matters as i have uninstalled this garbage 3 weeks ago. Ps i have over 800h on rev so i dont even know what you want to do with 0 exp..

Also at this point i dont think your opinion matter either way.

You would be surprised. My experiences multiclassing other classes have carried over to rev and translated quite easily. Weap swap is essential if you swap it properly with the legends in pvp. This is why I’m glad the game isn’t balanced around PvE. It’s quite dumbed down compared to the complexity offered in pvp at high levels. I can promise you that you wouldn’t beat my rev despite its “youth” just because I have superior knowledge of the game over you. By the way… <——Dueler.

And it’s funny that you said “at this point your opinion doesn’t matter either way” when you uninstalled the game 3 weeks ago. I think you should look in a mirror. Mad because bad. Have a nice day troll.

Dueler doesnt mean a jack.. If you tried to impress me then you failed hard. I also doubt in your “superior” knowlegle over me when i been doing pvp for well over 3 years so sorry but keep this bs to yourself.

And what “complexity” or “pvp at high levels” you talking about? This game has none. Get off the high horse please. If you knew how to play rev then you wouldnt need weapon swap at all cause all sets are designed as standalone weapons.

And yes, you got me. Nowdays i just troll around, nothing else to do after all.
Ps. EU>na -.^

Burtnik.5218:

Lettuce.2945:

Burtnik.5218:

Im on EU babe! But not like it matters as i have uninstalled this garbage 3 weeks ago. Ps i have over 800h on rev so i dont even know what you want to do with 0 exp..

Also at this point i dont think your opinion matter either way.

You would be surprised. My experiences multiclassing other classes have carried over to rev and translated quite easily. Weap swap is essential if you swap it properly with the legends in pvp. This is why I’m glad the game isn’t balanced around PvE. It’s quite dumbed down compared to the complexity offered in pvp at high levels. I can promise you that you wouldn’t beat my rev despite its “youth” just because I have superior knowledge of the game over you. By the way… <——Dueler.

And it’s funny that you said “at this point your opinion doesn’t matter either way” when you uninstalled the game 3 weeks ago. I think you should look in a mirror. Mad because bad. Have a nice day troll.

Dueler doesnt mean a jack.. If you tried to impress me then you failed hard. I also doubt in your “superior” knowlegle over me when i been doing pvp for well over 3 years so sorry but keep this bs to yourself.

And what “complexity” or “pvp at high levels” you talking about? This game has none. Get off the high horse please. If you knew how to play rev then you wouldnt need weapon swap at all cause all sets are designed as standalone weapons.

And yes, you got me. Nowdays i just troll around, nothing else to do after all.
Ps. EU>na -.^

Yawns. /10chars

Lettuce.2945:

Burtnik.5218:

Lettuce.2945:

Burtnik.5218:

Im on EU babe! But not like it matters as i have uninstalled this garbage 3 weeks ago. Ps i have over 800h on rev so i dont even know what you want to do with 0 exp..

Also at this point i dont think your opinion matter either way.

You would be surprised. My experiences multiclassing other classes have carried over to rev and translated quite easily. Weap swap is essential if you swap it properly with the legends in pvp. This is why I’m glad the game isn’t balanced around PvE. It’s quite dumbed down compared to the complexity offered in pvp at high levels. I can promise you that you wouldn’t beat my rev despite its “youth” just because I have superior knowledge of the game over you. By the way… <——Dueler.

And it’s funny that you said “at this point your opinion doesn’t matter either way” when you uninstalled the game 3 weeks ago. I think you should look in a mirror. Mad because bad. Have a nice day troll.

Dueler doesnt mean a jack.. If you tried to impress me then you failed hard. I also doubt in your “superior” knowlegle over me when i been doing pvp for well over 3 years so sorry but keep this bs to yourself.

And what “complexity” or “pvp at high levels” you talking about? This game has none. Get off the high horse please. If you knew how to play rev then you wouldnt need weapon swap at all cause all sets are designed as standalone weapons.

And yes, you got me. Nowdays i just troll around, nothing else to do after all.
Ps. EU>na -.^

Yawns. /10chars

Yawns. /15charr’s

Weapon swap doesn’t really matter, the majority of the weapon choices and their respective skills suck. The only real exception to this is sword main hand which is overloaded and frankly the only thing that props up rev allowing it to be viable.

tfw when you read revenant forums nowadays

This OP, i wasnt even going to dignify this suggestion with a response but its still being talked about, why? This type of topic bothers me because i fear with the sort of things Anet has pulled in the past, they might actually take this seriously.

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

The worst part of this topic is you think that swapping legends is the only thing the class needs. This comment alone makes me think all you do is PvE and if thats the case then you really have no right to make a suggestion that affects players in PvP and WvW.

Swapping from melee to range is also important in PvP and WvW. Even revenant cannot throw itself head first into a blob of people and auto attack everything. Hammer good for pressuring range if porting with shiro is not a good idea and being able to swap to sword is important for close range.

If this is a troll post, nice one. If it isn’t please just stop.

Ragion.2831:

This OP, i wasnt even going to dignify this suggestion with a response but its still being talked about, why? This type of topic bothers me because i fear with the sort of things Anet has pulled in the past, they might actually take this seriously.

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

The worst part of this topic is you think that swapping legends is the only thing the class needs. This comment alone makes me think all you do is PvE and if thats the case then you really have no right to make a suggestion that affects players in PvP and WvW.

Swapping from melee to range is also important in PvP and WvW. Even revenant cannot throw itself head first into a blob of people and auto attack everything. Hammer good for pressuring range if porting with shiro is not a good idea and being able to swap to sword is important for close range.

If this is a troll post, nice one. If it isn’t please just stop.

Funnily enough, Hammer is really only used in WvW.
Higher end PvP players never seem to use it and PvE players only equip it because it’s the only real ranged option, not because it’s good.

yea hammer is one of those iffy weapons probably because it kind of sucks when people are paying attention to it which is probably why its better in WvW and PvE than PvP

Ragion.2831:

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

Part of me actually start wonder how people even managed to play condi rev with.. mace/axe+s/sh < 1 selfroot block on 25cd and 0 defense against direct damage in Mallyx.

Burtnik.5218:

Ragion.2831:

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

Part of me actually start wonder how people even managed to play condi rev with.. mace/axe+s/sh < 1 selfroot block on 25cd and 0 defense against direct damage in Mallyx.

A Mace+Axe Rev in Mallyx Stance is a freekill these days in every teamfight.

KrHome.1920:

Burtnik.5218:

Ragion.2831:

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

Part of me actually start wonder how people even managed to play condi rev with.. mace/axe+s/sh < 1 selfroot block on 25cd and 0 defense against direct damage in Mallyx.

A Mace+Axe Rev in Mallyx Stance is a freekill these days in every teamfight.

Weird cus my friend made it to legendary with condi rev and he been only yoloq..

Ragion.2831:

This OP, i wasnt even going to dignify this suggestion with a response but its still being talked about, why? This type of topic bothers me because i fear with the sort of things Anet has pulled in the past, they might actually take this seriously.

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

The worst part of this topic is you think that swapping legends is the only thing the class needs. This comment alone makes me think all you do is PvE and if thats the case then you really have no right to make a suggestion that affects players in PvP and WvW.

Swapping from melee to range is also important in PvP and WvW. Even revenant cannot throw itself head first into a blob of people and auto attack everything. Hammer good for pressuring range if porting with shiro is not a good idea and being able to swap to sword is important for close range.

If this is a troll post, nice one. If it isn’t please just stop.

I don’t think anyone is requesting removal of Rev weapon swapping without other changes. The Devs have created a potentially interesting system which is used on Rev spear, that is two (melee and ranged) autoattacks on a single weapon. This system could potentially be applied to terrestrial weapons if weapon swap were removed. Further, you mention the s/s + staff example which has two blocks and two evades. It is possible that the removal of weapon swapping may allow the cooldowns of these skills to be reduced or the effects to be amplified, since they won’t need to be balanced around what can be done when paired with another weapon.

Whether or not you agree with removing weapon swap is up to you, but I wanted to clarify what seems to be under discussion and reassure others that no one here seems to be asking for (intentional) nerfs or removal of weapon swap without compensation by some other means.

i am a wvwer and playing revenent. taking away weapon swap will affect in a highly negative way, during zergs i use hammer to attack from far and swap to sword shield after getting close. furthermore i do alot solo runs where i run to 2 people groups whereby to win in the fight i need to have alot mobility, which is why i have energy sigil on sword and hammer so each swap gives me endurance, it keeps me alive. this is one of the worst idea ever i seen on this forum yet. think of other game modes rather than the only one you play.

Whitefang.4968:

i am a wvwer and playing revenent. taking away weapon swap will affect in a highly negative way, during zergs i use hammer to attack from far and swap to sword shield after getting close. furthermore i do alot solo runs where i run to 2 people groups whereby to win in the fight i need to have alot mobility, which is why i have energy sigil on sword and hammer so each swap gives me endurance, it keeps me alive. this is one of the worst idea ever i seen on this forum yet. think of other game modes rather than the only one you play.

Ironically, having weapon swap affected Revenant in ALL game modes. Some good, some bad.
Also, you can still easily activate your Energy Sigil even without Weapon swap.

Only way I can see revenant without weapon swap working would be to add different weapon skills to every legend. So when you swap a legend you don’t only swap utilities but aswell weapon skills even though you’re still equipping the same weapon/s.

the only way that they could make no weapon swap viable is they let us cycle through all legends, not just 2

fluidmonolith.3584:

Ragion.2831:

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

The worst part of this topic is you think that swapping legends is the only thing the class needs. This comment alone makes me think all you do is PvE and if thats the case then you really have no right to make a suggestion that affects players in PvP and WvW.

Swapping from melee to range is also important in PvP and WvW. Even revenant cannot throw itself head first into a blob of people and auto attack everything. Hammer good for pressuring range if porting with shiro is not a good idea and being able to swap to sword is important for close range.

If this is a troll post, nice one. If it isn’t please just stop.

I don’t think anyone is requesting removal of Rev weapon swapping without other changes.

Since this is your main point i just cut out the rest cuz of length.

That is just the problem. I already know OP means trading weapon swap for something else but what changes will justify cutting the defense and utility by not being able to use another set of weapons. Why exactly should devs complicate things now and redo the entire class just to remove weapon swap?

If weapon swap was removed now, devs would have to change the whole class to compensate for the lost number of blocks, utility, attack flexibility and burst just to get the class to the same level it was with weapon swap. Again, why?

Ragion.2831:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Ragion.2831:

i use sword/sword and staff for pvp a lot of people use Sword/Shield and staff. The two combined have 2 blocks and 2 evades which is extremely important since the class has no escapes. If you delete weapon swap it cuts down defence by a lot, to the point where the class will be helpless in fights.

The worst part of this topic is you think that swapping legends is the only thing the class needs. This comment alone makes me think all you do is PvE and if thats the case then you really have no right to make a suggestion that affects players in PvP and WvW.

Swapping from melee to range is also important in PvP and WvW. Even revenant cannot throw itself head first into a blob of people and auto attack everything. Hammer good for pressuring range if porting with shiro is not a good idea and being able to swap to sword is important for close range.

If this is a troll post, nice one. If it isn’t please just stop.

I don’t think anyone is requesting removal of Rev weapon swapping without other changes.

Since this is your main point i just cut out the rest cuz of length.

That is just the problem. I already know OP means trading weapon swap for something else but what changes will justify cutting the defense and utility by not being able to use another set of weapons. Why exactly should devs complicate things now and redo the entire class just to remove weapon swap?

If weapon swap was removed now, devs would have to change the whole class to compensate for the lost number of blocks, utility, attack flexibility and burst just to get the class to the same level it was with weapon swap. Again, why?

I certainly agree that it would take a lot of work, and this late after release of HoT, it is very unlikely to happen. As to why it could be beneficial? There are a few reasons:

-Revenant has very few weapon options (this would not be a problem if Rev had no weapon swap and/or two autoattacks on each weapon).

-Revenant is largely limited by cooldowns on weapons, whereas I would argue the intent was that Revenant be limited by energy. Removing weapon swap allows cooldowns to be reduced without allowing excessively high uptime of evades/blocks or burst that might be possible if cooldowns were reduced and weapon swap while weapon swap was retained. For example, the healing reduction of shield 5 could be reverted since it couldn’t be chained into staff #3.

-The dual auto-attack tech that ANet has built could be put to good use here, and as long as weapon swap exists, it likely won’t. I admit, however, that this particular claim is more based on theme or aesthetics than function.

Again, I agree that the amount of work required to make this change would be impractical. I am only making this argument because I think that, theoretically, the Revenant could be better if weapon swap were removed.

Lack of weapon options and lack of utility skills. I dont think this was caused by giving the class weapon swap but not enough time.

I think at some point the class is going to get more weapons, at least 1 ranged condi weapon and a second melee main hand weapon (probably main hand axe). The class is also probably going to get more utility skills.

Tbh rev is a beta rushed class like the whole expansion. It wasnt supposed to have wep swap but someone f- up. We know that Jalis had one skill that didnt made it into official version – calling some rune from the sky pushing away foes and creating safe zone for allies. I doubt we will see any changes about rev outside of number tweaks based on my experience with this game (since launch..) or any new core weapon.

Just like we are stuck with grandma buoooeeehhhh Glint, a future condition spec will be stuck with next elite spec if they want to grab range condi wep and go for full condi.. If anyone counting on extra utilities, core weps – stop dreaming and face reality. It wont happen.

Its just too much work to remove swap now sadly. I only hope we will get back on the track with low cd skills. 20 is far from low and 25 for shield is overkill.

Burtnik.5218:

KrHome.1920:

A Mace+Axe Rev in Mallyx Stance is a freekill these days in every teamfight.

Weird cus my friend made it to legendary with condi rev and he been only yoloq..

I made it from Amber to Diamond in 6 evenings (and stopped playing there) with a Devastation, Invocation, Herald Max-DPS PvE Sword+Hammer Build – 100% solo Q.

I guess next season I will do the same with a gs+staff power reaper – just for the lols.

You don’t get focused in solo Q. You can play squishy stuff, that would never be viable in a decent team fight.

The one to Rule.2593:

the only way that they could make no weapon swap viable is they let us cycle through all legends, not just 2

All legends would be pointless because we ll get more and more legends in further expansions. But a 3 legend swap to compensate the weapon swap + the reversal of weapon nerfs would be cool, but then we would lose our identity and become too much like an ele.