Guild Wars 2

Mournilg.4870:

He doesn’t want to “get rid of it”. Only on weapon skills.

That means getting rid of the mechanic.

first of all energy on ws is there to punish you if you use too much energy not wisely (they say it clearly in the first Revenant video in February).
And second it’s there to force you to weaponswap if you want to use ws after you’ve used many utility skills.

Mournilg.4870:

And i agree on heals with 0 energy. On the contrary of GW1 we can’t count on others for healing.

If they lowered energy costs on utilities, it would be fine too even with energy on ws.
As Kidel said, ws at worst delay you energy gain, they don’t really empty your bar.
Right now, too much skills be it weapon skills or utilities are too limited in what they do for the cost they have.

yep

Kidel.2057:

Griffith.7238:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Honestly I dont think removing the energy cost is a good idea. Having an energy cost means they can have impactful skills on shorter CDs (or they said something of the like in the first revenant reveal back when). I dont wanna be that guy but I think people are just plain outright playing Revenant wrong. I never had an issue with being out of energy for my weapon or heal skills. The ONLY time this has happened was right after using an upkeep skill (usually shiro’s, and honestly that skill’s energy drain needs to be toned down for what it does)

The problem is they said this yes ,but in reality our cds aren’t any lower then other classes when it comes to weapon skills and they still don’t do as much damage. Or have utility tied into them like Blinds, Evades, Etc.

Isn’t that resolved just by lowering energy cost on some skills and increasing the effectiveness of others? Why do you want to get rid of the class mechanic?
The only skill that should cost 0 energy is probably the healing one.

Essentially what Mournilg said. I don’t want to remove the class mechanics simply keep it to the part of the class that is unique there is nothing unique or new about weapon skills. Trust me I am all for challenge I have participated in competitive esports my whole life Halo, CoD, you name it I’m even a plat 2 jungle main in LoL and I hate that game. Because of this experience I can recognize when something is smooth in its presentation of challenge and when it is just outright clunky right now Rev is very much the latter. I personally think removing energy cost from weapon skills will take some slight micromanagement off the class not enough to make it an easy class to play ,but enough to make it feel a lot less clunky. When it is all said and done if the class maintains the exact complexity it has now I’m fine with that under the one condition that if it’s going to require so much micromanagement when I master it (and I will) I better feel like a god because high risk low reward isn’t gonna work out for me or anyone else with a brain.

Kidel you say that the energy cost is there to punish you yet you are all for reducing the ws cost you realize this directly conflicts with your own logic. Already the ws only simply stall your energy regen they don’t really take from it if they reduce it then you will result in a net gain of energy by the time the animation finishes nothing is punishing about that. The only alternative to not using the ws is to just aa , stand there, or run away none of which provide for exciting or viable gameplay so if you think the devs are going to be ok with that I think you are sorely mistaken. You can drain your whole energy bar by casting 1 Jade Winds sounds to me like you are saying that using your energy unwisely is using it in any way shape or form cause at the current state almost all the utilities completely drain you of energy.

Legends are the class mechanic. We relay on them. Weapons dont’t change with legends, they’re not part of the mechanic. We want to get rid of energy from weapon not from legends.

Griffith.7238:

Kidel you say that the energy cost is there to punish you yet you are all for reducing the ws cost you realize this directly conflicts with your own logic.

there is a difference between even 1 and 0. If they have no energy cost you can still do them with no energy left.
If they have 5-10, then it’s fine. You can’t do them if you managed poorly, but still they don’t sap too deep into your pool.
you still get punished for bad management as they want.

another change I’d made is 0 energy cost on healing skill. Those 2 changes alone would greatly increase the skill throughput, without affecting the mechanic at all.

krzysiek.9061:

Legends are the class mechanic. We relay on them. Weapons dont’t change with legends, they’re not part of the mechanic. We want to get rid of energy from weapon not from legends.

that’s not true it seems. Weaponskills are something you can do because of revenant magic, and you can only do that if you gather energy from the mists.
The only difference is that ws are not related to a particular legend, but they still are related to the mist.

Also if ws had no cost people would just use all the energy in the bar without managing it.

Kidel.2057:

Griffith.7238:

Kidel you say that the energy cost is there to punish you yet you are all for reducing the ws cost you realize this directly conflicts with your own logic.

there is a difference between even 1 and 0. If they have no energy cost you can still do them with no energy left.
If they have 5-10, then it’s fine. You can’t do them if you managed poorly, but still they don’t sap too deep into your pool.
you still get punished for bad management as they want.

another change I’d made is 0 energy cost on healing skill. Those 2 changes alone would greatly increase the skill throughput, without affecting the mechanic at all.

krzysiek.9061:

Legends are the class mechanic. We relay on them. Weapons dont’t change with legends, they’re not part of the mechanic. We want to get rid of energy from weapon not from legends.

that’s not true it seems. Weaponskills are something you can do because of revenant magic, and you can only do that if you gather energy from the mists.
The only difference is that ws are not related to a particular legend, but they still are related to the mist.

Also if ws had no cost people would just use all the energy in the bar without managing it.

And it would be no different then a Thief blowing all his initiative on Heartseeker aka completely useless.

My main gripe isn’t the fact that Energy costs are high… it’s that everything uses it, on top of CD’s… and so far how the Class is now (esp using a build around Shiro), it’s exhausting.

You have this Legend, this stance… add the Revenant class mechanics to it, Shiro who’s idea is going for a bursty-type DPS way of playing the Class, and what you get is a Build that has Energy depleting quicker than the Burst can happen, and no retreat (lose of Energy or no GTFO Utility as it’s all locked at 3 atm, with no option). So the limited option you have, add to the Energy problems are reasons why players are looking at the Energy system as something that needs to be reworked.

If we had options to chose the skills ourselves, then it prob. won;t be that big on an issue, but we’re forced into these skills and the Energy burn costs with it.

Brit.9726:

My main gripe isn’t the fact that Energy costs are high… it’s that everything uses it, on top of CD’s… and so far how the Class is now (esp using a build around Shiro), it’s exhausting.

You have this Legend, this stance… add the Revenant class mechanics to it, Shiro who’s idea is going for a bursty-type DPS way of playing the Class, and what you get is a Build that has Energy depleting quicker than the Burst can happen, and no retreat (lose of Energy or no GTFO Utility as it’s all locked at 3 atm, with no option). So the limited option you have, add to the Energy problems are reasons why players are looking at the Energy system as something that needs to be reworked.

If we had options to chose the skills ourselves, then it prob. won;t be that big on an issue, but we’re forced into these skills and the Energy burn costs with it.

I agree it’s just far too clunky atm so many ways to spend energy and very few ways to regenerate it. Essentially you really do have to choose between damage and utility you can’t do both you have to burn through your whole bar to do any worthwhile damage which leaves you completely vulnerable or you can take the more passive approach which gets you nowhere if you’ve seen scowia’s vids doing 1v1s is more like just waiting for someones teammate to show up so the scales get tipped and the fight ends.

@Kidel
I get the point but Thief [it’s to Griffith too] has traits that work with initatives (more points, faster recharge) and Revenant has nothing: no traits with base energy, no traits with lowering costs. Completely nothing.
If they’re going to leave it as it is, they need to change something with energy costs.

It’s only my opinion, and you may say that I’m completly noob aka’Press all the buttons! but I didn’t feel that this system (in BWE1) punishes me for spamming skills. Costs were too high, and for me it was completely unplayable.

krzysiek.9061:

@Kidel
I get the point but Thief [it’s to Griffith too] has traits that work with initatives (more points, faster recharge) and Revenant has nothing: no traits with base energy, no traits with lowering costs. Completely nothing.
If they’re going to leave it as it is, they need to change something with energy costs.

It’s only my opinion, and you may say that I’m completly noob aka’Press all the buttons! but I didn’t feel that this system (in BWE1) punishes me for spamming skills. Costs were too high, and for me it was completely unplayable.

Some one mentioned in another thread Chaser I believe that they could make ws generate energy instead of cost energy. I think this would require a lot of work on the devs part to rebalance everything (not that it is even close to balanced atm anyway) ,but I think this would be awesome and make the class way more proactive and it would definitely give the class the more “Push and Pull” they describe it as having in the POI vid. Also Kidel I really think you misunderstood what Roy was trying to say in that video. Pushing is more of using that energy and then Pulling is more of letting it regen and not so much just Legend Swapping to get it all back instantly thats more like Pushing and straight up Hulk Pulling.

I said what I had to say. Let’s wait for the upcoming changes post at the end of the week.

If you add energy regen on WS you basically end up spamming utility, then spam some ws, then spam utility again, then weaponswap and use some more ws cd, then spam utility again and repeat.

You get no punisment for wrong management. Just another skillspam class. no brain involved.
I won’t complain, it would be easier, but brainless.

Kidel.2057:

I said what I had to say. Let’s wait for the upcoming changes post at the end of the week.

If you add energy regen on WS you basically end up spamming utility, then spam some ws, then spam utility again, then weaponswap and use some more ws cd, then spam utility again and repeat.

You get no punisment for wrong management. Just another skillspam class. no brain involved.
I won’t complain, it would be easier, but brainless.

Not skill spamming if the energy was given only if the skill hits. Besides, if we get energy gain on ws, then the natural energy refill should be drastically lower than it is now.

That in pve is 100% of the time.
Also skill cost would be scaled up to make up for that, making revenant weaker in pvp where people can dodge.

gain if skill hits and lower passive drain. Are you asking for a nerf?

Kidel.2057:

That in pve is 100% of the time.
Also skill cost would be scaled up to make up for that, making revenant weaker in pvp where people can dodge.

gain if skill hits and lower passive drain. Are you asking for a nerf?

To be clear, if skills are to generate energy, they can’t cost it, that would be stupid.
And the energy gain would be proportionnal to the difficulty of landing the skill.

In pvp, landing a skill is harder i agree, that’s why energy costs should be lowered too.
If your ennemy is good enough to avoid ALL your skills and baits, then i think he deserves his win no?

No other class has to choose between utilities or weapons. If you want to keep energy for both you need to either increase energy gains or reduce costs. From there then you debate each one.
If legend swap is meant to be something to constantly switch between then the CD needs to be lowered like engineer kits OR give us access to more legends at one time like ele Attunements. You can’t take away from one area without giving on another or else you have an Imbalance.

Some rev skills need their weapon energy cost reduced or all out removed. Sword 4 need to have cost removed.