Guild Wars 2

I really want to love Revenant. Their design with legends is so cool. But playing it has been frustrating, especially in PvP. Here’s what I don’t understand about Revs…what is their purpose? They seem to have no unique purpose.

Mallyx/Hearld – Why not play Necro?

Shiro/Hearld – Why not play Guardian?

Renegade – Why not play Ranger? The “charr” are exactly the same as spirits

The only “cool”/unique thing about a Rev is Ventari and that isn’t really in meta. Only in WvW as a healer.

It just seems like Revenant fills a role that is already filled. Rev will also be fighting this never endless battle where it either does so well that it takes over the role of Necros or Guardians or it does so poorly that Guardians or Necros take over its role.

It just seems like Revenant has no identity. Nothing to make it desired or useful in the game compared to the other classes. Never mind that Revs, in my opinion, are significantly more complex.

I would also like to add, Jalis/Herald – Why not play Engi?

Lot of changes impacted Rev moreso than other classes. The support/stomping power of rev was killed with the quickness change(quickness no longer affects stomping/rezzing). The increased energy and added cooldown on phase traversal secured the role of roaming and +1 to thieves and to a lesser extent, mesmer. The huge nerf on SOTM dropped it’s 1v1 power.

The more recent changes to Jalis suggest they want us to hold points and bunker. Increased base heal of Vengeful hammers, added initial stability to Inspiring Reinforcements, and reducing the energy cost of Forced Engagement is nice. Unfortunately, Jalis has an expensive stunbreak and if they wanted us to use active skills to avoid CC, Inspiring reinforcements is not enough. They should revert the changes to Unwavering Avoidance to give us back stability on dodge instead of evade. Although that will help, I still don’t see a Jalis rev taking the job as pointholder simply because they tied the tankiness of Jalis to an expensive(and short duration elite) and a buggy upkeep skill. Vengeful Hammers can sustain extremely well, especially when traited with Devastation’s siphon life but the problem is not the traits itself. The problem is the buggy nature of Vengeful Hammers. Trying to LOS and hug walls means the hammers disappear, sometimes still draining energy. You have to to deal with range pressure with the Hammer weaponset but it’s slow. Hammer 5 is buggy. If you dodge cancel it, it will not finish the skill, spend all the energy, AND go on full cooldown. This means you’re stuck with a staff, swd/x weapon set.

IMO they should buff rev to what it was good at. Teamfighting and +1. The quickness stomp change was good IMO but the increase energy cost/added CD to Phase Traversal was too much. The 50% SOTM nerf was too much. It seems like the nerfs come in harder than the buffs and the rate at which they come in is way too slow. All these slow buffs are meaningless because the xpac is coming up.

edit: also the change to hydromancy sigil affected us moreso than other classes. We used it in conjunction with our equilibrium burst so it further weaken our stopping power.

1) to roflsmash peoples faces with hammer from 3 miles away in wvw.
2) you didn’t want to be literally the slowest class in the game (guardian)
3)you wanted to use a hammer that actually had cool animations.

other than that, nothing. The class has poor build diversity, poor weapon diversity, no utility diversity, meh damage, almost literally no condi cleanse, the worse shield, no aegis, an annoying energy mechanic, and 1 playstyle: Herald.

I would just lay guardian if they weren’t so kittening slow. Their new elite looks way cooler than shooting arrows into a portal and summoning more AI drones. If I wanted to summon stupid AI drones yo fight for me I would just play necro or ranger but even those classes are trying to move away from that gimmicky bs.

To be a jack of all trades and master of none.

I know that’s not appealing, but that’s the impression I get. Maybe some people like it. Too many nerfs have brought us to this point.

Its most definitely the nerfs that’s been a horrible blow to the profession.

The increase in energy costs on top of cooldowns for Shiro have gutted its mobility and evasiveness massively, and its not like it offered exceptional DPS in the first place.

Jalis is better, but:
-It NEEDS a rework to how Hammers work if they cannot do something about the terrain stopping it.
-RotGD needs to have Versed in Stone’s effect baseline and have said GM trait remove 2 conditions when using an Elite skill with an ICD. Remove the Stun Break.
-Inspiring Reinforcement…just get rid of the road, add a stunbreak, and make it a radial AoE effect that provides a stack of Stability (and maybe some small healing if you break Stun/Daze/ect) on use

Ventari’s fine to a degree, though I wish it had a bit more personal sustain.

We’re supposed to be a jack of all trades, but while we do a little of everything, we dont do any one of those things well enough to be considered viable for any of those jobs or roles beyond a small amount of instances, like Ventari/Mallyx being healers/resistance-providers in WvW.

Kalla looks like it may have a shot at providing some sought after boons (Kalla’s Fervor, Alacrity) and hopefully competitive condition DPS, but time will tell if it will actually do those things well enough to matter.

Yeah I can see myself running a Kala+hammer build. Should be about to output some insane DPS.

Honestly the skills kind of remind me a mix between longbow warrior and a ranger with spirits. We’ll see.

I think with Ventari, they should make the tablet stay in position when switching legends. Instead of seeing it desummoned. I can see it being used 100% more often. I know I would.

IMO for condi build – revenant has its place – heavy armor tanky condi DPS… (except that mace skills are complete trash for PvP, with no aiming they can’t do anything against any skilled opponent).
But that’s it.

And yes, hammer builds are so lame and boring… 2 buttons, tons of damage, 0 player skills.

To be fair, in sPvP Mallyx/Glint is more like a DH than a necro… Except with Embrace the Darkness + Unyielding Anguish for point control instead of traps.

And Shiro/Glint is a lot more like Daredevil.

But yeah, if you’re into maximum yield for minimal effort, Rev is not the class for you. But it IS a lot more fun than just smashing your face into your keyboard on the other classes, IMO.

(But yeah, Renegade looks a complete mess, especially the F-skills… Unless there’s some undisclosed energy building/restoring trait in renegade, then it might be alright.)

The point of revenant, to me, is adaptability; much like how elementalist is adaptable through elements and their weapon skills, revenant is adaptable through their legends and utility skills.

You bring up a couple of legend combinations and state “why not play this class instead”, well, because that class can’t do what the other legend combinations you listed can; but there are some major differences between the legend pairs and the classes you compared to. Sure, maybe some of these legends under perform as the moment, but that can be fixed with balancing patches. Each legend at least has some uniqueness (Glint’s Facets or Ventari’s Tablet for examples), and the energy and upkeep system of revenant makes the profession play differently than every other class.

Renegade – Why not play Ranger? The “charr” are exactly the same as spirits

This… isn’t true, and you can tell this by reading the tool tips for them. They’re not upkeeps and they don’t stay around until killed. As far as I can tell, you cast them, they last a set amount of time (6 seconds) and go away. I don’t believe we have summons that function exactly this way in game yet (correct me if I’m wrong). The elite is a 9 pip upkeep with a pretty crazy effect that I believe will be coveted in groups.

Malthurius.6870:

The point of revenant, to me, is adaptability; much like how elementalist is adaptable through elements and their weapon skills, revenant is adaptable through their legends and utility skills.

You bring up a couple of legend combinations and state “why not play this class instead”, well, because that class can’t do what the other legend combinations you listed can; but there are some major differences between the legend pairs and the classes you compared to. Sure, maybe some of these legends under perform as the moment, but that can be fixed with balancing patches. Each legend at least has some uniqueness (Glint’s Facets or Ventari’s Tablet for examples), and the energy and upkeep system of revenant makes the profession play differently than every other class.

But I never see anyone play it like that. No one takes advantage of the adaptability because it isn’t good.

Lets take the current meta builds.

Fractal: Bereserker. Half the time you’re sitting in Hearld giving off boons. Why not just play Guardian? They output more DPS and give just of good as boons without having to worry about energy. 90% you’re not using the other legend.

WvW: The only time where the adaptability is actually used.

Raids: Same thing as Fractals. You’re taking the part of a physical DPS that puts out boons. Again, guardians seem to be the better choice.

PvP: You’re either a weak necromancer or a weak guardian. Two popular builds. One does condi damage and absorbs conditions. Doesn’t remove them, only applies resist. The other is a physical DPS boon applier. How do you counter a revenant in PvP? Focused CC, Focused Condition Damage, Focused Physical Damage. Pretty much every class in the game.

Right now Revenant has no identity. No purpose. It is out classed by every other class. Not only this, but every single good build REQUIRES Herald! Why? Because every legend offers so little team support and self sustain that the class would be completely useless without it. The physical DPS and benefits of the other legends aren’t good enough to warrant taking them over boons. And 50% of the reason why you take glint is because her heal is a get out of jail free card. If herald didn’t exist, no one would ever want a Revenant on their team. They would rather have a necro or a guardian.

I’m not too optimistic about the new legend. I’m going to withhold my final judgement till I play it, but it looks very underwhelming.

What revenant needs is LESS RNG TRAITS, more ways of dealing with any kind of pressure. Ways that don’t involved herald. Finally, the other legends need to take on a better role/identity and actually give off some team support to warrant taking it over herald.

Ask yourself. Does the new legend REALLY look better than Herald? Don’t forget, you have to choose. You can either have infinite fury, might, swiftness, insane boon application, and a get out of jail free card…or you can be a ranged condition damage whose boons that it applies aren’t good enough to compete with Herald’s support. Just looking at the damage numbers (I’m not sure if they’re in 80 gear when they took those pics), it looks significantly less than hammer. I doubt any PvEr will want to take this and certainly not the other modes.

I want to love Rev. They’re such a cool class design. Such a cool lore background. Everything about them is cool. I just get really frustrated when I’m playing and the feeling of “I could do this in a quarter of the work with another class” keeps popping up. Especially in PvP.

Deified.7520:

Malthurius.6870:

The point of revenant, to me, is adaptability; much like how elementalist is adaptable through elements and their weapon skills, revenant is adaptable through their legends and utility skills.

You bring up a couple of legend combinations and state “why not play this class instead”, well, because that class can’t do what the other legend combinations you listed can; but there are some major differences between the legend pairs and the classes you compared to. Sure, maybe some of these legends under perform as the moment, but that can be fixed with balancing patches. Each legend at least has some uniqueness (Glint’s Facets or Ventari’s Tablet for examples), and the energy and upkeep system of revenant makes the profession play differently than every other class.

But I never see anyone play it like that. No one takes advantage of the adaptability because it isn’t good.

Lets take the current meta builds.

Fractal: Bereserker. Half the time you’re sitting in Hearld giving off boons. Why not just play Guardian? They output more DPS and give just of good as boons without having to worry about energy. 90% you’re not using the other legend.

Raids: Same thing as Fractals. You’re taking the part of a physical DPS that puts out boons. Again, guardians seem to be the better choice.

As I understand it now, the current meta for a berserker Herald (in raids) is Jalis/Glint, relying on others to stack boons for you and using Jalis spinning hammers for extra damage; switching to glint to renew energy, and switch back to Jalis.

Guardians do not supply boons as well as Herald facets. Herald has more access to fury, and much more might while doing decently competitive damage and having better survivability (imo).

Right now Revenant has no identity. No purpose. It is out classed by every other class. Not only this, but every single good build REQUIRES Herald! Why? Because every legend offers so little team support and self sustain that the class would be completely useless without it. The physical DPS and benefits of the other legends aren’t good enough to warrant taking them over boons. And 50% of the reason why you take glint is because her heal is a get out of jail free card. If herald didn’t exist, no one would ever want a Revenant on their team. They would rather have a necro or a guardian.

Revenant does have identity, I’ve already described it in the quote and even contextualized it with the fact that they may not be balanced 1 to 1 to what you find equivalent.

Dragon Hunter on guardian is close to the same situation. Dragon Hunter is just flat out superior to core guardian in almost every way. Higher damage mods (27% increased damage at melee, 33% at ranged), better virtues, period. It’s very rare for a core profession in GW2 to be as good as a profession with 2 core 1 elite. Revenants and Herald are no different.

What revenant needs is LESS RNG TRAITS, more ways of dealing with any kind of pressure. Ways that don’t involved herald. Finally, the other legends need to take on a better role/identity and actually give off some team support to warrant taking it over herald.

Ask yourself. Does the new legend REALLY look better than Herald? Don’t forget, you have to choose. You can either have infinite fury, might, swiftness, insane boon application, and a get out of jail free card…or you can be a ranged condition damage whose boons that it applies aren’t good enough to compete with Herald’s support. Just looking at the damage numbers (I’m not sure if they’re in 80 gear when they took those pics), it looks significantly less than hammer. I doubt any PvEr will want to take this and certainly not the other modes.

They were probably in celestial or some kind of hybrid stated gear for the press beta.

But, if you’ve examined the skills for renegade, it looks very promising. They have a stacking buff called fervor that can stack up to 10 times and grants 30 ferocity and 2% condition damage per stack. That significant. Not to mention it’s elite skill that provides AE lifesteal that deals a healthy amount of additional damage and healing while active, not to mention it may be a fire field, which is also a pretty big deal.

Renegade has the potential to be a very good hybrid damage elite capable of providing unique support in the form of it’s utilities that behave unlike any other utility in the game. People have compared them ranger spirits, but that’s not quite right. They behave more like fields or wells, imo.

I want to love Rev. They’re such a cool class design. Such a cool lore background. Everything about them is cool. I just get really frustrated when I’m playing and the feeling of “I could do this in a quarter of the work with another class” keeps popping up. Especially in PvP.

I don’t share the sentiment, I’m personally having a hard time choosing between Guardian and Revenant for this upcoming expansion.

Maybe some of your issues will be addressed in the upcoming pre-expac balance patch.

Then dont play rev? There are people who enjoy the way mallyx is designed and don’t like necro. Similarly to other stances. It’s like you are saying what’s the point of ele and engi when necro/ranger exist, just because they are jack of all trade classes as well.

To me it’s,
daredevil evades
Fire staff ele dmg
Guardian boons
Thief mobility

A jack of all trades…..more like a jack of 2 trades due to the legend mechanic. Actually more like a “Jack of 1 trade” cuz you’re gonna be sitting in Herald/Shiro, Mallyx or Ventari depending on your game mode and build; Power, Condi or Healing.

Edit: waaaaaaait a minute….I want to be a Master of 1 trade not the Jack of one….hold on i know how to fix this; “Revenant the Jester of all trades”

Datenshi.2765:

A jack of all trades…..more like a jack of 2 trades due to the legend mechanic. Actually more like a “Jack of 1 trade” cuz you’re gonna be sitting in Herald/Shiro, Mallyx or Ventari depending on your game mode and build; Power, Condi or Healing.

Edit: waaaaaaait a minute….I want to be a Master of 1 trade not the Jack of one….hold on i know how to fix this; “Revenant the Jester of all trades”

Yup, even other classes are much better “Jack of all trades”

I might be dropping rev due to the new thief spec, it is bad enough they always focus rev for the easy kills but now they have a spec that gives them bonus for tracking players.

and i wonder how renegade’s mobility will be affected without herald? they say elite spec is a different way of playing a class, that may be ture for the other professions, but it is certainly not for rev, no good rev build does not have glint in use due to its low cost energy skills and boons.

this expansion could be the final update that kills rev.

hypehype.9047:

I might be dropping rev due to the new thief spec, it is bad enough they always focus rev for the easy kills but now they have a spec that gives them bonus for tracking players.

and i wonder how renegade’s mobility will be affected without herald? they say elite spec is a different way of playing a class, that may be ture for the other professions, but it is certainly not for rev, no good rev build does not have glint in use due to its low cost energy skills and boons.

this expansion could be the final update that kills rev.

You have to remember nothing is set in stone, many skills were reworked/nerfed/buffed from HoT beta to till its launch. However post HoT balance was very infrequent and I hope they don’t make that same mistake again.

Also, people seem to have a hard time wrapping their heads around the fact that not every spec is suitable for every area. Kalla is clearly a pve legend. Shortbow also lacks the elements to make it great for pvp. Any meta ranged weapon has some sort of skill that helps kiting (evade / soft cc). We havent seen the traits yet but so far the spec offers:
No mobility, condi cleanse, stability, stunbreak (except heal). But that is fine, because if it did it would invalidate herald and once again people would complain. Assuming the traits will be decent you can still make a shortbow build with mallyx and shiro.

OP is making this overly complicated.

Any class in this game, like Rev, or any other game is simply there for players to choose from based on the idea of ‘likeable concept’. That’s it. If you like the idea of the class, you play it. If you don’t, you get many character slots to try others. I have yet to play an MMO that doesn’t work this way that has many class systems. Other MMO’s add an additional element of ‘likeable role’ as well, something that GW2 (smartly IMO) done away with.

Revenant identity is admittedly a little weird and perhaps not fully developed. You basically tap into the spirits of legends to get their unique powers. I can’t think of any similar analogue in another game I’ve played.

I don’t believe any particular class in this game (with the exception of some obvious elites) are intended to excel at any one thing or game mode. You just have to find what you like or in the case of a performance-based choice in class, what you are good with.

Deified.7520:

It just seems like Revenant fills a role that is already filled.

I’m disappointed with rev for my own reasons but this seems completely kitten about to me.

Professions shouldn’t be about unique roles. That’s bad design.

Professions have unique themes and mechanics.

Mechanically revenant is supposed to be about reliance on energy instead of cooldowns but sadly they failed to follow through with that in both elite specs.

For my tastes, the original four legends are pretty decent. They require a very different approach to most of GW2’s other profs, but are functional, versatile and offer good variety (except UW of course!).