Guild Wars 2

So something I’ve learned is a fairly normal situation is that I’ve popped my heal and swapped stance but of course the dots keep on ticking, eventually killing me slowly but surely and I find myself lacking options to avoid it.

Also been in the situation where a necro was chasing me from range with autoattacks and since I was low on energy from already trying to get away with riposting shadow I couldn’t do anything about it, he just dotted me up with ease and simply left when he felt the stack was sufficent to kill me off, which he did of course.

So the question is, how to deal with condi? Seeing as the majority seem to be running condi builds now, how do you guys get around it?

I understand that offensive pressure is a useful tool and our evade frames are good for avoiding some application, as well as popping herald heal when you’re getting stacked for some massive healing, but the dots are still there afterwards and since they can be applied with autoattacks you can’t really avoid it all.

Being somewhat stuck in melee is obviously a drawback too as condi application from range is quite normal.

Don’t get me wrong, I do fairly well with Revenant and 1v1 vs condi is sometimes managable, not really against necro that much but still (even when dodging marks). In teamfights however I get the feeling that the condi users deliberately target me first, which makes sense since I lack any meaningful cleanse. It’s pretty frustrating to be thought of as nothing but easy prey so I am wondering if anyone has any helpful tips on how to better deal with condition damage builds?

Crowley.8761:

So something I’ve learned is a fairly normal situation is that I’ve popped my heal and swapped stance but of course the dots keep on ticking, eventually killing me slowly but surely and I find myself lacking options to avoid it.

Also been in the situation where a necro was chasing me from range with autoattacks and since I was low on energy from already trying to get away with riposting shadow I couldn’t do anything about it, he just dotted me up with ease and simply left when he felt the stack was sufficent to kill me off, which he did of course.

So the question is, how to deal with condi? Seeing as the majority seem to be running condi builds now, how do you guys get around it?

I understand that offensive pressure is a useful tool and our evade frames are good for avoiding some application, as well as popping herald heal when you’re getting stacked for some massive healing, but the dots are still there afterwards and since they can be applied with autoattacks you can’t really avoid it all.

Being somewhat stuck in melee is obviously a drawback too as condi application from range is quite normal.

Don’t get me wrong, I do fairly well with Revenant and 1v1 vs condi is sometimes managable, not really against necro that much but still (even when dodging marks). In teamfights however I get the feeling that the condi users deliberately target me first, which makes sense since I lack any meaningful cleanse. It’s pretty frustrating to be thought of as nothing but easy prey so I am wondering if anyone has any helpful tips on how to better deal with condition damage builds?

Get someone to cleanse for you or play condi rev.

Reroll to berserker.

Burtnik.5218:

Reroll to berserker.

Or that…

^Funny. Its funny that the class the introduced resistance has such little access to it.

If you’re engaging a necro 1v1:

• Force them to play defensively by playing aggressively. Start with UA or Surge to evade Rise. Less minions the better. Typically avoid this if possible. Like to don’t push onto this if you don’t have to.

In a team fight:

• This is distinctly different because it’s hard to keep up the damage as your offence goes down per person and their defence goes up. Hit and run and make sure to DPS after a cc with sword auto and impossible odds.

If they’re already on you:

• Staff 4 + leadership runes and make sure to use reposting shadows to get rid of non damaging conditions before hand. Use glints heal if you can, it can land you a full heal easily.

In general:

• you’re very susceptible to conditions. Use blocks and evades to your advantage so you never get them in the first place but blocks don’t work agaisnt a lot of necro abilities.

Yeah I covered some of these in the OP, especially the hit and run tactic is difficult when people deliberately single you out, the running is where you run into problems since they have ranged. Even when using the Shiro evade or pillarhumping where possible people quite easily dot you up before and after – I find that when you try to dip in and out you lose most of your hp inbetween so might as well be glued to a target and deliver what little damage you can before you go down.

And yeah Glint heal is fine for 2 secs, condis still there when it ends and when you get burning ticking for 3-4k and bleeding for 2k+ and then torment and poison on top of that in extreme cases you’ll live for maybe 2-3 secs after it ends…

Crowley.8761:

Yeah I covered some of these in the OP, especially the hit and run tactic is difficult when people deliberately single you out, the running is where you run into problems since they have ranged. Even when using the Shiro evade or pillarhumping where possible people quite easily dot you up before and after – I find that when you try to dip in and out you lose most of your hp inbetween so might as well be glued to a target and deliver what little damage you can before you go down.

And yeah Glint heal is fine for 2 secs, condis still there when it ends and when you get burning ticking for 3-4k and bleeding for 2k+ and then torment and poison on top of that in extreme cases you’ll live for maybe 2-3 secs after it ends…

Like I said while running in teamfights is something you should do if you have no choice, getting close to your support to make their work easier is also an option.
That is assuming you have a druid/tempest in your team (a tempest is preferred ) if you don’t you shouldn’t be playing rev.

Varezenem.2813:

Crowley.8761:

Yeah I covered some of these in the OP, especially the hit and run tactic is difficult when people deliberately single you out, the running is where you run into problems since they have ranged. Even when using the Shiro evade or pillarhumping where possible people quite easily dot you up before and after – I find that when you try to dip in and out you lose most of your hp inbetween so might as well be glued to a target and deliver what little damage you can before you go down.

And yeah Glint heal is fine for 2 secs, condis still there when it ends and when you get burning ticking for 3-4k and bleeding for 2k+ and then torment and poison on top of that in extreme cases you’ll live for maybe 2-3 secs after it ends…

Like I said while running in teamfights is something you should do if you have no choice, getting close to your support to make their work easier is also an option.
That is assuming you have a druid/tempest in your team (a tempest is preferred ) if you don’t you shouldn’t be playing rev.

Hmmz… Kinda sad that it’s gotten to the point where it’s just pointless to play it without certain classes to back you up. And I was strictly talking about lower division solo q stuff really, obviously this will all work alot differently in a proper team. Had a few games again today where it ended up being vs mostly condi on the opposite side, pretty frustrating how absolutely useless it makes you feel.

Crowley.8761:

Varezenem.2813:

Crowley.8761:

Yeah I covered some of these in the OP, especially the hit and run tactic is difficult when people deliberately single you out, the running is where you run into problems since they have ranged. Even when using the Shiro evade or pillarhumping where possible people quite easily dot you up before and after – I find that when you try to dip in and out you lose most of your hp inbetween so might as well be glued to a target and deliver what little damage you can before you go down.

And yeah Glint heal is fine for 2 secs, condis still there when it ends and when you get burning ticking for 3-4k and bleeding for 2k+ and then torment and poison on top of that in extreme cases you’ll live for maybe 2-3 secs after it ends…

Like I said while running in teamfights is something you should do if you have no choice, getting close to your support to make their work easier is also an option.
That is assuming you have a druid/tempest in your team (a tempest is preferred ) if you don’t you shouldn’t be playing rev.

Hmmz… Kinda sad that it’s gotten to the point where it’s just pointless to play it without certain classes to back you up. And I was strictly talking about lower division solo q stuff really, obviously this will all work alot differently in a proper team. Had a few games again today where it ended up being vs mostly condi on the opposite side, pretty frustrating how absolutely useless it makes you feel.

It’s unavoidable, we are being balanced around the meta comp which includes that kind of support. Rev lacks meaningful self-healing and condi cleanse and a tempest provides exactly that.

Your best bet is stop playing completely. Once rev population drop on face they will start understand what mistake they did. Just like with wvw.

Either reroll as Elementalist or have one with you clearing your conditions non stop lol. My group roams in WvW with 2 Revs, 2 Eles and 1 necro generally, with that we have pretty solid damage and good condition clear.

Builds here: http://asphyxia.tv/builds/

Run leadership runes and sigil of generosity / cleanse (one on each wep set). That gives you access to 5 types of condi clears with the runes and staff 4 removing 2 condis.

Hopefully people will stop jumping to conclusions and stop automatically saying we are op just because we got good at a class and then Anet may balance it better…. everything can be op in the right hands yet people don’t understand thatha and just jump to conclusions..

Could also fight cheese with cheese and then you will see just how bad all these players are that run around playing cheese..

TwistedFate.8705:

Could also fight cheese with cheese and then you will see just how bad all these players are that run around playing cheese..

Yeah I suppose that’s always an option but I really prefer not to… That’s why I’ve been running power mesmer as well, I just don’t enjoy the playstyle of condi and I think I’ve reached an age where enjoyment doesn’t come from going fotm and stomping people through the strength of a build rather than your own skill – and I always felt GW2 relied heavily on personal skill, but in this case the game simply isn’t giving many viable options to deal with a very, very large portion of the playerbase. Essentially leaving us as fodder or with an over-reliance on support to even manage a 2v1.

As for the cleanse sigils and runes, fair enough if you spam that with legend swap but that’s no real guarantee you’ll actually cleanse some of the heavy hitters, considering basically everything inflicts some kind of condition. Not to mention they are almost instantly reapplied anyway since necro for example can stack 3-4x poison and maintain 12 stacks of bleed by simply autoattacking with the scepter.

Edit: Scratch that, tested with expertise amulet now, 16 stacks of bleed and 5 stacks of poison with auto only (15 maintanable in normal conditions) – ticking for 1900.

Crowley.8761:

TwistedFate.8705:

Could also fight cheese with cheese and then you will see just how bad all these players are that run around playing cheese..

Yeah I suppose that’s always an option but I really prefer not to… That’s why I’ve been running power mesmer as well, I just don’t enjoy the playstyle of condi and I think I’ve reached an age where enjoyment doesn’t come from going fotm and stomping people through the strength of a build rather than your own skill – and I always felt GW2 relied heavily on personal skill, but in this case the game simply isn’t giving many viable options to deal with a very, very large portion of the playerbase. Essentially leaving us as fodder or with an over-reliance on support to even manage a 2v1.

As for the cleanse sigils and runes, fair enough if you spam that with legend swap but that’s no real guarantee you’ll actually cleanse some of the heavy hitters, considering basically everything inflicts some kind of condition. Not to mention they are almost instantly reapplied anyway since necro for example can stack 3-4x poison and maintain 12 stacks of bleed by simply autoattacking with the scepter.

Edit: Scratch that, tested with expertise amulet now, 16 stacks of bleed and 5 stacks of poison with auto only (15 maintanable in normal conditions) – ticking for 1900.

This game no longer relies on skill it’s all build. Skill went out the door years ago now everyone is just a tank or condi cheese and the fights go long enough to the point where it gets boring.

The sigils are better then nothing. They work on legend swap or wep swap obviously what ever you do first but it is still better then nothing. I would rather have something and mind you it is quite decent then having nothing at all.
Using these and also trying to avoid getting condis in the first place does work well and rev also has a couple of interrupts. You need to actually work to make this all work try your hardest to evade interrupt and just avoid condis. I do fine against 1 person and against a group it is managable but requires a lot of work and timing / knowing when to bail to heal. The satisfaction of beating cheese with skill is real too.

TwistedFate.8705:

This game no longer relies on skill it’s all build. Skill went out the door years ago now everyone is just a tank or condi cheese and the fights go long enough to the point where it gets boring.

The sigils are better then nothing. They work on legend swap or wep swap obviously what ever you do first but it is still better then nothing. I would rather have something and mind you it is quite decent then having nothing at all.
Using these and also trying to avoid getting condis in the first place does work well and rev also has a couple of interrupts. You need to actually work to make this all work try your hardest to evade interrupt and just avoid condis. I do fine against 1 person and against a group it is managable but requires a lot of work and timing / knowing when to bail to heal. The satisfaction of beating cheese with skill is real too.

Well I just had to try this out myself. I’ve never played Necromancer in PvP before, I had one at lvl 20 as a tailoring alt from 2013. Sure enough, first game was vs two revenants. And they jump and they skip and they teleport all around and pop their heals and then they fall over. Autoattack. What a joke.

Edit: One of them was quite good I’d say, pillarhumping and pressuring and legend swapping, had the sigils as well. But RNGesus did not favour her cleanses. It’s pretty amazing the difference in skill required to do well vs each other in this matchup. Kind of extreme.

http://i.imgur.com/KgHCg39.jpg

Stack resistance.

http://asphyxia.tv/wvw-roaming-revenant-build/

I came up with that build above which seems to do a bit better against conditions. I tried it out last night and I was pretty surprised at how helpful the Generosity sigil was.

The problem isn’t exactly that it’s impossible to cleanse, the issue is putting yourself at a severe disadvantage by doing it, sacrificing more than any class in order to do it at all and still having it be completely unreliable as it’s one stack only and at any time you are likely to have at least two damaging conditions and at least one detrimental condition, so you may well end up swapping weps and legend to get rid of a cripple and 1 stack of vulnerability while keeping 10 stacks of torment and 15 bleed. Not only that but conditions are reapplied way faster than you can ever hope to cleanse.

TL;DR: In a teamfight that build will still melt like a pile of icecream on Scarlett Johanssons kitten.

Crowley.8761:

The problem isn’t exactly that it’s impossible to cleanse, the issue is putting yourself at a severe disadvantage by doing it, sacrificing more than any class in order to do it at all and still having it be completely unreliable as it’s one stack only and at any time you are likely to have at least two damaging conditions and at least one detrimental condition, so you may well end up swapping weps and legend to get rid of a cripple and 1 stack of vulnerability while keeping 10 stacks of torment and 15 bleed. Not only that but conditions are reapplied way faster than you can ever hope to cleanse.

TL;DR: In a teamfight that build will still melt like a pile of icecream on Scarlett Johanssons kitten.

I agree before going back to my Mesmer purely for pvp purposes I desperately tried to make this build work.. Being a kind of DPS team support if you will http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNAscmnvN2gS6JvQRVlbosryPUYW5IKYs8EllflZNgDegNjOGx+2gLG-TZBFwAROEALeCAt2foaZAAnAAA tried to use kitten to get my energy back also sigil of energy to dodge as much as possible to break stuns from some of this horrific cc being added to the condition mix.. This build worked some games but as soon as I see a team of 3 NECROS and 1 Warrior.. I know it’s time to switch (I know I’m not the best Revenant player, heck I’m still learning the class but i have never felt so useless in pvp on any game than this season) it’s gotten really frustrating now. Before I stopped if win loads of games be 1 pip off of my next rank then lose 2 games again.. Then win 2 then lose 2 win 2 lose 2 it’s driven me up the wall haha (but I’m not mad before anyone accuses me of raging, think of me as a babbling mad man in a lab or something)

Puls.5867:

Before I stopped if win loads of games be 1 pip off of my next rank then lose 2 games again.. Then win 2 then lose 2 win 2 lose 2 it’s driven me up the wall haha (but I’m not mad before anyone accuses me of raging, think of me as a babbling mad man in a lab or something)

If I’m one pip away from a division rank up I swap to my Mesmer. Just not worth the roll of the dice for teams and then the unavoidable relog you’ll most likely have to do anyway. It matters very little what opposition the Mes gets compared to how absolutely vital it is for a Rev.

play with condition engi with stealth gyro, gang enemies, steal points. If you are good and if the engi is good, you will easily win 2v2 in a matter of seconds. 2v1 against anything is insta kill.

Since everyone’s discussing Condition abuse, how do you guys find Mallyx in ranked play at the moment?
I know you can’t constantly keep Resistance going so easily, but surely it helps some against the plague of condition damage floating about?
Of course, there’s still a nasty weakness to CC, but I feel like you can sorta make up for it with boonstripping against bunkers (Eles/Scrappers in particular, who contest points and almost never die otherwise)…

Euthymias.7984:

Since everyone’s discussing Condition abuse, how do you guys find Mallyx in ranked play at the moment?
I know you can’t constantly keep Resistance going so easily, but surely it helps some against the plague of condition damage floating about?
Of course, there’s still a nasty weakness to CC, but I feel like you can sorta make up for it with boonstripping against bunkers (Eles/Scrappers in particular, who contest points and almost never die otherwise)…

Well as you said you can’t keep resistance up all the time if you want to want to actually deal damage as well, but it does help for sure and people seem put off when their dots aren’t doing anything. Your second wep set is purely for survival since we have no real options there.

One particularly fun use of condi rev I find is how good it is at stopping ress or gaining double and triple kills on ressers because of mace #2 and the insane damage from burning, and it has a reasonable uptime in those situations. It’s a bit difficult to land in confusing teamfights but it does work to a certain extent. Against power builds it is extremely strong as you might imagine.

That being said, I know metabattle suggests Shiro as 2nd legend but I strongly advise against that for solo queue, dots will own you without access to glint heal in lieu of someone cleansing you. The boons are also highly useful and you can easily see the tide of battle turning as you pop off might and fury. The burn is also handy as a point/stomp protection.

Euthymias.7984:

Since everyone’s discussing Condition abuse, how do you guys find Mallyx in ranked play at the moment?
I know you can’t constantly keep Resistance going so easily, but surely it helps some against the plague of condition damage floating about?
Of course, there’s still a nasty weakness to CC, but I feel like you can sorta make up for it with boonstripping against bunkers (Eles/Scrappers in particular, who contest points and almost never die otherwise)…

My friend uses Mallyx/Glint and doesnt complain. He dropped Shiro cause they turned him into trash.

Now my question is if u run Glint/Mallyx. Do u drop dev for corruption? And maybe a build link would be interesting to see!

If you run Glint/Mallyx definitely drop dev. Run Corruption, Retribution, Herald.

I ran mallyx/shiro for a while in S2 but that was with Merc Amulet and when shiro hadnt been nerfed yet. It worked rather well. Better than glint/mallyx.

I havent tried in S3 since ive dropped revenant for warrior as part of my class rotations.

Kenshu.3825:

Now my question is if u run Glint/Mallyx. Do u drop dev for corruption? And maybe a build link would be interesting to see!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJAsun3geNSuQvJRboHlsP0kS4I6SJ4EtrklTlRNjOKxO93vPNgEWA-TpA/AA1+DQZAA

This is my build. Yeah probably not optimal blah blah, kinda made with the purpose of withstanding condi since that is the spam meta currently. Works fairly well, condi is still problematic but you don’t melt quite as fast at least.

Crowley.8761:

Kenshu.3825:

Now my question is if u run Glint/Mallyx. Do u drop dev for corruption? And maybe a build link would be interesting to see!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJAsun3geNSuQvJRboHlsP0kS4I6SJ4EtrklTlRNjOKxO93vPNgEWA-TpA/AA1+DQZAA

This is my build. Yeah probably not optimal blah blah, kinda made with the purpose of withstanding condi since that is the spam meta currently. Works fairly well, condi is still problematic but you don’t melt quite as fast at least.

Yeah, Ive been trying to run something similar with Geo/Doom on M/Ax and Energy/Leeching on Sw/Sh.
It “works” but it feels really difficult to manage. Between the energy costs to keep pressuring and using utilities and possibly getting chained CC’d I either disengage often or die trying =/