Guild Wars 2

See I be just find if the Revy’s skills had one or the other, However that is not the case. The Revy’s weapon and utility skills have both energy cost to use them and a cd after using them. I mean what kinda kitten is that? At first I though the Revy played like the thief were the weapon skills cost initiative and the utility skills had cd, but no the Revy suffers from having an energy cost and when you use any of its skills a cd. Sure you can argue that Revy has the ability to swap from legend to legend and has access to more skills then the other classes, but so does the ele and they don’t have a energy cost and a cd to worry about.

xXMapcoXx.9614:

See I be just find if the Revy’s skills had one or the other, However that is not the case. The Revy’s weapon and utility skills have both energy cost to use them and a cd after using them. I mean what kinda kitten is that? At first I though the Revy played like the thief were the weapon skills cost initiative and the utility skills had cd, but no the Revy suffers from having an energy cost and when you use any of its skills a cd. Sure you can argue that Revy has the ability to swap from legend to legend and has access to more skills then the other classes, but so does the ele and they don’t have a energy cost and a cd to worry about.

When Ele swap elements he just swaping weapon skill but utilities stays, when Rev swaps legends u swap utilities either dont forget dat Rev got 2 heal skill not to mention Staf #4 and Shiel #4 and #5 all Rev needs is just some tune on his energy costs.

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes. Not to mention that utility skills, for the most part, don’t any any CD’s. That’s just how the class is. No sense in complaining about it, just learn how to play it better. Not to mention that revenants are in the meta for all game modes.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes. Not to mention that utility skills, for the most part, don’t any any CD’s. That’s just how the class is. No sense in complaining about it, just learn how to play it better. Not to mention that revenants are in the meta for all game modes.

Revenant can’t choose utilities though and very easy to read unlike the other classes. Not saying it’s a weak class but holy kitten – being able to switch only between 5 sets of utilities is kittening annoying at times.

Racial skills should be available for revenants.

alain.1659:

Racial skills should be available for revenants.

Revs cant chage some of utilities so thats why racial skill arent viable for them.

xXMapcoXx.9614:

See I be just find if the Revy’s skills had one or the other, However that is not the case. The Revy’s weapon and utility skills have both energy cost to use them and a cd after using them. I mean what kinda kitten is that? At first I though the Revy played like the thief were the weapon skills cost initiative and the utility skills had cd, but no the Revy suffers from having an energy cost and when you use any of its skills a cd. Sure you can argue that Revy has the ability to swap from legend to legend and has access to more skills then the other classes, but so does the ele and they don’t have a energy cost and a cd to worry about.

I think it works out best that Rev weapon skills have both cd and energy cost. Let us think about what it would be like if they only had one or the other:

-Weapon skills only cost energy (no cooldown): Rev has some pretty potent weapon skills. For example, staff #5, sword #3, shield #5. With no cooldown, these could be used repeatedly unless they cost absurd amounts of energy. Thief uses this model, but thief doesn’t need initiative for utility skills, while Rev needs energy for utilities. If staff #5 cost 50 energy, for example, you’d never have energy for utility skills.

-Weapon skills have no energy cost, only cooldown: When energy is only used for utility skills, which are generally pretty situational, Rev would often have excess energy and very few choices to make about how to spend it. Imagine Glint with no weapon skill energy cost – Free swiftness, fury, and might forever. This would be broken and boring to play. Utility skill cost could be increased to compensate … but do you really want to pay 80 energy for Jade Winds?

Now, regarding cooldowns on utility skills, I agree that these are often not needed. A few of them (e.g. Jade Winds 5 second cd) were implemented because it was deemed too powerful to use it back to back if you had pooled energy. But for the most part, cooldowns on utility skills are very short (5 seconds or less). I personally do not feel limited by such short utility skill cooldowns most of the time, though there are a few exceptions, such as Inspiring Reinforcement and Phase Traversal.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

serj.8214:

alain.1659:

Racial skills should be available for revenants.

Revs cant chage some of utilities so thats why racial skill arent viable for them.

I know, and this should change in my opinion. At least for racial skills. That would be interesting at least.

Revenant is the single profession that can do amazing things, but cannot do simple ones.

Because if we removed the CD on weapon skills revs would be the most broken OP class in the game.

Imagine Phase Traversal into Precision Strike-Precision Strike-Precision Strike, or just use Precision Strike x 10…..

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

I agree with this in many cases. However, if we just decreased the cd on many weapon skills, I think Rev would become over-tuned.

The question I have: Would users be willing to accept higher energy costs on weapon skills in return for lower cooldowns? E.g. Staff #5 is reduced to 10s cooldown but now costs 30 energy. E.g. Axe 4 is reduced to 6s cooldown but now costs 20 energy.

IMO, there is a delicate balance between over-costed weapon skills regulated primarily by energy and cheap skills regulated primarily by cooldowns. I think right now Rev is closer to the latter and needs to be pushed a bit in the other direction.

All Rev need ids rebalance on energy costs lower weapon energy costs and some tune on utilities costs thats all.

Problem remains Revenant is in no need of a buff at this time. Discussing shorter CDs and/or energy costs is pointless unless some hyper power creep for the rest of the game is taking place.

At this time Revenants NEED nothing.

It needs bug fix certainly.

Azukas.1426:

Problem remains Revenant is in no need of a buff at this time. Discussing shorter CDs and/or energy costs is pointless unless some hyper power creep for the rest of the game is taking place.

At this time Revenants NEED nothing.

Revenant does seem competitive with other professions at the moment (WvW / PvP perspective), so I agree that buffs should not happen (except to under-utilized skills, traits, or legends, such as Jalis). However, there are many remaining aspects which are too weak to be usable, bugged, or boring to use. There is plenty of room to tweak things without buffing them. For example, if a weapon skill has the cd decreased but the energy cost increased (or vice versa), is that a buff or a nerf?

serj.8214:

All Rev need ids rebalance on energy costs lower weapon energy costs and some tune on utilities costs thats all.

Which weapon skills cost too much energy? They’re already pretty cheap. I’ve outlined in my above post some of the consequences of reducing or eliminating weapon skill energy costs. Utility skills might be given increased energy costs as compensation, I’m not sure I’d like that…
I advocate for decreased weapon skill cooldowns coupled with increased energy costs (when appropriate). If done well, this would create meaningful decision making processes regarding skill use, rather than the “use on cooldown”

fluidmonolith.3584:

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

I agree with this in many cases. However, if we just decreased the cd on many weapon skills, I think Rev would become over-tuned.

The question I have: Would users be willing to accept higher energy costs on weapon skills in return for lower cooldowns? E.g. Staff #5 is reduced to 10s cooldown but now costs 30 energy. E.g. Axe 4 is reduced to 6s cooldown but now costs 20 energy.

IMO, there is a delicate balance between over-costed weapon skills regulated primarily by energy and cheap skills regulated primarily by cooldowns. I think right now Rev is closer to the latter and needs to be pushed a bit in the other direction.

The point of weapon skills costing energy was low cd’s on them (see 2sec CoR vs 4sec True Shot as example). This is no longer the case as over time they raised cd’s and they match other classes right now. At this point they need to get rid of energy consuption from wep skills or revert cd nerfs. Right now its double punishment.

While CD’s and Energy requirements are more restriction than other classes, classifying it as punishment is excessive. Frankly, I think the mechanic is unnecessarily complicated, but there is no need to get rid of it. If that’s an honest option, might as well discard the whole class, because it’s built around that whole concept. It makes no sense to do so.

What I find odd is that Glint stands out on it’s energy use because it’s constant, while the other legends are more ‘per use’. If the other legends were more like Glint, I can totally see why this double use of CD’s and energy is a thing for the class.

As normal, just another one of those things that makes the class feel unfinished … these contrasts. Unfortunately, even with this contrasts, Revs fair very well in the game so it’s unlikely to get any major changes other than a tweak here or there. Changing any of these aspects would simply clean things up a little; nothing is actually broken here.

The skills are roughly on par to other professions with traited weapon skill CDs, which Revenants do not have available.
I still think they can do without energy costs on weapon skills since the CDs are fine as is – just leave the energy costs on Utility/Elite skills. I think that it would justify the current costs for the aforementioned in tandem with their fairly low CDs without breaking anything.

Burtnik.5218:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

I agree with this in many cases. However, if we just decreased the cd on many weapon skills, I think Rev would become over-tuned.

The question I have: Would users be willing to accept higher energy costs on weapon skills in return for lower cooldowns? E.g. Staff #5 is reduced to 10s cooldown but now costs 30 energy. E.g. Axe 4 is reduced to 6s cooldown but now costs 20 energy.

IMO, there is a delicate balance between over-costed weapon skills regulated primarily by energy and cheap skills regulated primarily by cooldowns. I think right now Rev is closer to the latter and needs to be pushed a bit in the other direction.

The point of weapon skills costing energy was low cd’s on them (see 2sec CoR vs 4sec True Shot as example). This is no longer the case as over time they raised cd’s and they match other classes right now. At this point they need to get rid of energy consuption from wep skills or revert cd nerfs. Right now its double punishment.

Nope couldn’t disagree more with you. Revenants need no changes at this time, and developer time should be spent elsewhere on other classes that actually need help.

I think the priority should obviuosly be bug fixing.
After that we should have some kind of rework of underused legends/traitlines.

Then weapons.
Eg:
Mace should have been a mid range weapon (makes more sense given how we use torment as the primary condition, we want the enemy to move but we don’t have the skills to stay glued to them). It’s also our only condi weapon so make it also work on range should be a given.
Staff #2 is clunky, and so on.

When we have actually fixed bugs and design, then we can work on numbers.

Temihal.8651:

I think the priority should obviuosly be bug fixing.
After that we should have some kind of rework of underused legends/traitlines.

Then weapons.
Eg:
Mace should have been a mid range weapon (makes more sense given how we use torment as the primary condition, we want the enemy to move but we don’t have the skills to stay glued to them). It’s also our only condi weapon so make it also work on range should be a given.
Staff #2 is clunky, and so on.

When we have actually fixed bugs and design, then we can work on numbers.

Mace is nice as it is) and staff #2 if cant use it properly its ur problem not of the weapon.

serj.8214:

Temihal.8651:

I think the priority should obviuosly be bug fixing.
After that we should have some kind of rework of underused legends/traitlines.

Then weapons.
Eg:
Mace should have been a mid range weapon (makes more sense given how we use torment as the primary condition, we want the enemy to move but we don’t have the skills to stay glued to them). It’s also our only condi weapon so make it also work on range should be a given.
Staff #2 is clunky, and so on.

When we have actually fixed bugs and design, then we can work on numbers.

Mace is nice as it is) and staff #2 if cant use it properly its ur problem not of the weapon.

Wow boy, I’m sorry you need so much someone to take out your frustrations on. Hope things get better soon for you. /s

It was just my opinion, you have yours and that’s fine.
Try to be a little more constructive and explain your point next time.
Stating things are ok good/bad just because won’t help anyone.

Temihal.8651:

serj.8214:

Temihal.8651:

I think the priority should obviuosly be bug fixing.
After that we should have some kind of rework of underused legends/traitlines.

Then weapons.
Eg:
Mace should have been a mid range weapon (makes more sense given how we use torment as the primary condition, we want the enemy to move but we don’t have the skills to stay glued to them). It’s also our only condi weapon so make it also work on range should be a given.
Staff #2 is clunky, and so on.

When we have actually fixed bugs and design, then we can work on numbers.

Mace is nice as it is) and staff #2 if cant use it properly its ur problem not of the weapon.

Wow boy, I’m sorry you need so much someone to take out your frustrations on. Hope things get better soon for you. /s

It was just my opinion, you have yours and that’s fine.
Try to be a little more constructive and explain your point next time.
Stating things are ok good/bad just because won’t help anyone.

Calling some a boy when you sit on another side of PC is so brave and cool XD And we have a disscus here so i dont see any probs to say dat mace is ok as it is and Staff #2 is cool interrupt on spvp)

serj.8214:

Calling some a boy when you sit on another side of PC is so brave and cool XD And we have a disscus here so i dont see any probs to say dat mace is ok as it is and Staff #2 is cool interrupt on spvp)

I intended “Wow boy” as a matter of speech, not an insult. Sorry if it passed along in the wrong way. English is not my first tongue so I may have given the wrong idea.
Not sure why you thought it should have been “brave and cool” anyway, but that’s off topic.

Back to the rev, I didn’t say mace isn’t ok (it probably the weapon I have the most fun with atm).
I said that the profession could have been better off with a mid range condition weapon to make the most out of:
1- Torment
2- Having a single condi weapon

Staff #2…Well, I think it would be a better interrupt with the second skill only, dazing only if used while the enemy is using a skill.
What I meant with clunky is that you have to use the skill twice to get the interrupt, which is not ideal.

I’ll say it again, we don’t have to agree

Temihal.8651:

serj.8214:

Calling some a boy when you sit on another side of PC is so brave and cool XD And we have a disscus here so i dont see any probs to say dat mace is ok as it is and Staff #2 is cool interrupt on spvp)

Back to the rev, I didn’t say mace isn’t ok (it probably the weapon I have the most fun with atm).
I said that the profession could have been better off with a mid range condition weapon to make the most out of:
1- Torment
2- Having a single condi weapon

Staff #2…Well, I think it would be a better interrupt with the second skill only, dazing only if used while the enemy is using a skill.
What I meant with clunky is that you have to use the skill twice to get the interrupt, which is not ideal.

I’ll say it again, we don’t have to agree

For condi we have not just mace but an axe too either we have mallyx stance and the new 3\3 trait in corruption so we can apply some good condi dmg to our enemys on legend swap)
And #2 staff is good as it is with that second skill cast bcs you can make some play with that and if we get just a daze on 5 sec CD when you strike enemy when they cast smtng
with all that we will get some nerf like rise of energy cost or cd so better be as it is now. We need much more bug fixes.

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

I agree with this in many cases. However, if we just decreased the cd on many weapon skills, I think Rev would become over-tuned.

The question I have: Would users be willing to accept higher energy costs on weapon skills in return for lower cooldowns? E.g. Staff #5 is reduced to 10s cooldown but now costs 30 energy. E.g. Axe 4 is reduced to 6s cooldown but now costs 20 energy.

IMO, there is a delicate balance between over-costed weapon skills regulated primarily by energy and cheap skills regulated primarily by cooldowns. I think right now Rev is closer to the latter and needs to be pushed a bit in the other direction.

The point of weapon skills costing energy was low cd’s on them (see 2sec CoR vs 4sec True Shot as example). This is no longer the case as over time they raised cd’s and they match other classes right now. At this point they need to get rid of energy consuption from wep skills or revert cd nerfs. Right now its double punishment.

Nope couldn’t disagree more with you. Revenants need no changes at this time, and developer time should be spent elsewhere on other classes that actually need help.

Nope, 0 arguments given. Typical Azukas. You know what? Nope, coulndt disagree more with you. Revenant do need changes as hes completely different from it original intentions. Energy on weapon skills is one of them. We were supposed to have lower cd’s than other classes due to wep skills costing energy. With recent changes its no longer the case and bc of that energy usage on wep skills should be gone as well. Go troll somewhere else now

fluidmonolith.3584:

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

I agree with this in many cases. However, if we just decreased the cd on many weapon skills, I think Rev would become over-tuned.

The question I have: Would users be willing to accept higher energy costs on weapon skills in return for lower cooldowns? E.g. Staff #5 is reduced to 10s cooldown but now costs 30 energy. E.g. Axe 4 is reduced to 6s cooldown but now costs 20 energy.

IMO, there is a delicate balance between over-costed weapon skills regulated primarily by energy and cheap skills regulated primarily by cooldowns. I think right now Rev is closer to the latter and needs to be pushed a bit in the other direction.

That’s an interesting thing to discuss.

Vastly lowering the cooldowns but increasing cost would probably cause Revenant to be the king of incredibly broken bursts and be almost immune to damage for periods of time, but it’s potential would fall flat in a long run/after couple seconds/till next Legend swap. If I were to make a comparison, it would be like playing a huge minion on early turn in Hearthstone with Shaman, but being fully overloaded for next one/two turns.

There are alternatives, however. Revenant could have weapons and mechanics built around ramp-up or setting up bigger damage, with skills buffing each other/being part of combo rather than being separate entities that need no build-up.

Something such as Opening Strike/Off-Hand/Dual Strike behaviour from GW1 Assasin comes to my mind. Something that would make spamming one ability very inefficient/ineffective but promote combining different skills in order to have sort of “combo finisher” later on. This would require a lot of work.

I think the main reason why just plainly deleting Cooldowns from abilities would be a balancing nightmare is 50 energy recovery on Legend swap.
If spending all your Energy at once would be way more punishing in form of not having your resource reset every 10 or so seconds, then we could reconsider the idea.

I believe the removal of Energy reset is a thing worthy of discussion in general as I think that if it was executed correctly, Revenant could turn into different beast, with Energy management being an insanely important factor. But that’s a topic for different discussion.

Burtnik.5218:

Azukas.1426:

Burtnik.5218:

fluidmonolith.3584:

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

I agree with this in many cases. However, if we just decreased the cd on many weapon skills, I think Rev would become over-tuned.

The question I have: Would users be willing to accept higher energy costs on weapon skills in return for lower cooldowns? E.g. Staff #5 is reduced to 10s cooldown but now costs 30 energy. E.g. Axe 4 is reduced to 6s cooldown but now costs 20 energy.

IMO, there is a delicate balance between over-costed weapon skills regulated primarily by energy and cheap skills regulated primarily by cooldowns. I think right now Rev is closer to the latter and needs to be pushed a bit in the other direction.

The point of weapon skills costing energy was low cd’s on them (see 2sec CoR vs 4sec True Shot as example). This is no longer the case as over time they raised cd’s and they match other classes right now. At this point they need to get rid of energy consuption from wep skills or revert cd nerfs. Right now its double punishment.

Nope couldn’t disagree more with you. Revenants need no changes at this time, and developer time should be spent elsewhere on other classes that actually need help.

Nope, 0 arguments given. Typical Azukas. You know what? Nope, coulndt disagree more with you. Revenant do need changes as hes completely different from it original intentions. Energy on weapon skills is one of them. We were supposed to have lower cd’s than other classes due to wep skills costing energy. With recent changes its no longer the case and bc of that energy usage on wep skills should be gone as well. Go troll somewhere else now

Revs are performing within this game VERY well, and making a change would push them further into the OverPowered zone. So I don’t care what we are supposed to have on our revs I only care about balance.

So no argument is needed b/c you don’t argue outlandish delusional claims/requests. You ignore them and set strict boundaries.

The energy costs should be removed from the weapon skills IMO. I avoid using the other skills besides the auto attacks because I want to keep my up-keeps up until I can swap legends again. This is for basically all of the weapons.

It wouldn’t be interesting fun challenging difficult if there were [no cooldowns] or [no energy costs].

No wonder people only auto attack, GG people.

Will.9785:

The energy costs should be removed from the weapon skills IMO. I avoid using the other skills besides the auto attacks because I want to keep my up-keeps up until I can swap legends again. This is for basically all of the weapons.

Keeping upkeeps up in pvp its so facepalm in pve u need just 2 of them and cleave mobs with swords 1 nothing more.

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes. Not to mention that utility skills, for the most part, don’t any any CD’s. That’s just how the class is. No sense in complaining about it, just learn how to play it better. Not to mention that revenants are in the meta for all game modes.

Revenant can’t choose utilities though and very easy to read unlike the other classes. Not saying it’s a weak class but holy kitten – being able to switch only between 5 sets of utilities is kittening annoying at times.

Sounds like a personal problem, buddy. Stop complaining. You get double the amount of utility skills than other professions. If you don’t like Rev, don’t play it. Otherwise, it doesn’t need any major overhauls. The majority of people love Rev, and it sits in the meta for all game modes at the moment. /thread

Burtnik.5218:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes.

No, they arent. We have same cd’s or even longer as other classes but unlike them rev skills still cost energy.

No. Just no. Most utility skills have absolutely no CD, and for the small amount that do have a CD, it’s less than 10s. (Disregarding glint, because bringing glint into this thread and comparing those skills to others are apples and oranges.)

The Game Slayer.7632:

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes. Not to mention that utility skills, for the most part, don’t any any CD’s. That’s just how the class is. No sense in complaining about it, just learn how to play it better. Not to mention that revenants are in the meta for all game modes.

Revenant can’t choose utilities though and very easy to read unlike the other classes. Not saying it’s a weak class but holy kitten – being able to switch only between 5 sets of utilities is kittening annoying at times.

Sounds like a personal problem, buddy. Stop complaining. You get double the amount of utility skills than other professions. If you don’t like Rev, don’t play it. Otherwise, it doesn’t need any major overhauls. The majority of people love Rev, and it sits in the meta for all game modes at the moment. /thread

I am not your buddy, Buddy.

I love my class as it is, all I imply is I’d want more variety in it. That way each time I try to get somebody to play revenant they’d actually stick to it and wouldn’t ask such embarassing questions like “only two stances underwater wut”.

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes. Not to mention that utility skills, for the most part, don’t any any CD’s. That’s just how the class is. No sense in complaining about it, just learn how to play it better. Not to mention that revenants are in the meta for all game modes.

Revenant can’t choose utilities though and very easy to read unlike the other classes. Not saying it’s a weak class but holy kitten – being able to switch only between 5 sets of utilities is kittening annoying at times.

Sounds like a personal problem, buddy. Stop complaining. You get double the amount of utility skills than other professions. If you don’t like Rev, don’t play it. Otherwise, it doesn’t need any major overhauls. The majority of people love Rev, and it sits in the meta for all game modes at the moment. /thread

I am not your buddy, Buddy.

I love my class as it is, all I imply is I’d want more variety in it. That way each time I try to get somebody to play revenant they’d actually stick to it and wouldn’t ask such embarassing questions like “only two stances underwater wut”.

How much underwater content do we have?) And how much ground?) So it such a good argument for utilities XD

The Game Slayer.7632:

Sounds like a personal problem, buddy. Stop complaining. You get double the amount of utility skills than other professions. If you don’t like Rev, don’t play it. Otherwise, it doesn’t need any major overhauls. The majority of people love Rev, and it sits in the meta for all game modes at the moment. /thread

While it’s not a problem per say, it does seem like poor design. Guild wars 2 was sold on play how you want, while you can argue on how true that was, much of that freedom came from being able to pick different skills to tweak your build to your play style. Rev is a great class but it’s fixed utilities have always seemed lacking to a lot of people.

Two sets of utilities may sound good on paper but it really limits rev, an idea that has been thrown around a lot since rev was in beta was to give each legend around 4-5 utilities to allow you to tweak your builds. All 5 utilities would be themed around the legend but provide different functionality within the scope of that legend. Other core professions have 5 sets of 4 skills for their utilities so rev’s 4 core legends having 5 skills would match the 20 utilities available to other prof, ignoring racial skills which should have been added to rev with just cool downs.

As it is at the moment some rev skills are useless in many situations and your inability to change them for something more useful basically means you have a dead skill slot. For example Inspiring Reinforcement in a ranged fight that needs no stability is pretty much a wasted slot.

It’s not complaining to give feedback on issues players are having with rev, the devs actively encourage players to speak out about what works and what doesn’t and the whole “you have two utility bars” isn’t the answer to any issues. Utilities are just skills, Eles and engineers can use far more skills in one build than a rev can and they have a choice over every single one. While the current rev system works the lack of tweak-ability is very limiting and will get old much faster than other professions that can switch individual skills at will.

On the topic of the thread, Rev skills should have both cool down and energy, this is to allow skills to be more powerful but not too spam-able.

As long as it’s balanced correctly there shouldn’t be a problem, there are some issues such as phase traversal which has a far too high energy cost but still a relatively low cool down.

The energy cost makes it very difficult to use this is a fight as it leaves you with very little energy. That said the unblock-able buff it provides requires a high cost, in this case it would be better to raise the cost in terms of cool down and reduce the energy required so you can use it when you need it but not spam unblockable.

serj.8214:

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Vasdamas Anklast.1607:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Revenants skills are very low CD compared to other classes. Not to mention that utility skills, for the most part, don’t any any CD’s. That’s just how the class is. No sense in complaining about it, just learn how to play it better. Not to mention that revenants are in the meta for all game modes.

Revenant can’t choose utilities though and very easy to read unlike the other classes. Not saying it’s a weak class but holy kitten – being able to switch only between 5 sets of utilities is kittening annoying at times.

Sounds like a personal problem, buddy. Stop complaining. You get double the amount of utility skills than other professions. If you don’t like Rev, don’t play it. Otherwise, it doesn’t need any major overhauls. The majority of people love Rev, and it sits in the meta for all game modes at the moment. /thread

I am not your buddy, Buddy.

I love my class as it is, all I imply is I’d want more variety in it. That way each time I try to get somebody to play revenant they’d actually stick to it and wouldn’t ask such embarassing questions like “only two stances underwater wut”.

How much underwater content do we have?) And how much ground?) So it such a good argument for utilities XD

We don’t have it until we run into it and then we feel embarassed that we actually do. And personally I have underwater fights on WvW quite frequently on all borders. There is also big deal of underwater exploration too outside of endgame.
Following your logic Shiro and Mallyx are not the legends, they don’t have utility skills and revenant can definitely pick other legends underwater. Nope. Also, my “such a good argument” was just one of notable examples. But I kinda noticed that every single one of “)” folk kinda can’t follow and tend to be biased and one-sided in their judgement.

Removing the energy costs from weapon skills 2-5 would be sensible.

Energy is not just a replacement for cooldowns.

It brings some malleability between effect vs cooldown.

Drop the Hammer would be 30sec on any other class.
Unrelenting Assault would do -25% dmg and probably a 15sec cd.

Riposting Shadows is nearly the twin of Lightning Reflexes which is at 40sec cd.

There are some skills that could use a better balance between energy/cd/effect for sure. But I would not wish for the removal of any one of those 3, that combo is what makes revenant so awesome feeling.

fluidmonolith.3584:

xXMapcoXx.9614:

See I be just find if the Revy’s skills had one or the other, However that is not the case. The Revy’s weapon and utility skills have both energy cost to use them and a cd after using them. I mean what kinda kitten is that? At first I though the Revy played like the thief were the weapon skills cost initiative and the utility skills had cd, but no the Revy suffers from having an energy cost and when you use any of its skills a cd. Sure you can argue that Revy has the ability to swap from legend to legend and has access to more skills then the other classes, but so does the ele and they don’t have a energy cost and a cd to worry about.

I think it works out best that Rev weapon skills have both cd and energy cost. Let us think about what it would be like if they only had one or the other:

-Weapon skills only cost energy (no cooldown): Rev has some pretty potent weapon skills. For example, staff #5, sword #3, shield #5. With no cooldown, these could be used repeatedly unless they cost absurd amounts of energy. Thief uses this model, but thief doesn’t need initiative for utility skills, while Rev needs energy for utilities. If staff #5 cost 50 energy, for example, you’d never have energy for utility skills.

-Weapon skills have no energy cost, only cooldown: When energy is only used for utility skills, which are generally pretty situational, Rev would often have excess energy and very few choices to make about how to spend it. Imagine Glint with no weapon skill energy cost – Free swiftness, fury, and might forever. This would be broken and boring to play. Utility skill cost could be increased to compensate … but do you really want to pay 80 energy for Jade Winds?

Now, regarding cooldowns on utility skills, I agree that these are often not needed. A few of them (e.g. Jade Winds 5 second cd) were implemented because it was deemed too powerful to use it back to back if you had pooled energy. But for the most part, cooldowns on utility skills are very short (5 seconds or less). I personally do not feel limited by such short utility skill cooldowns most of the time, though there are a few exceptions, such as Inspiring Reinforcement and Phase Traversal.

The only utilities whose cooldowns are shorter than 5 seconds are:
-pain absorption (35 energy, 0 cooldown, half second cast)
-banish enchantment (20 energy, 0 cooldown, half second cast)
-unyielding anguish (30 energy, 0 cooldown, 3/4 second cast)
-embrace the darkness (5 energy, 7 upkeep, 3/4 second cast)
-riposting shadows (30 energy, 0 cooldown, instant cast)
-impossible odds (10 energy, 10 upkeep, instant cast)
-vengeful hammers (5 energy, 7 upkeep, instant cast)
-rite of the great dwarf (50 energy, 1.25 second cast, 1/2 second aftercast)

Now getting into Glint:
-30 second cooldown on Infuse Light
-20 second cooldown on Gaze of Darkness
-15 second cooldown on Elemental Blast
-15 second cooldown on Burst of Strength
-45 second cooldown on Chaotic Release
these are significantly longer than the elite skill cooldowns of most other classes
And that’s on top of most of Ventari having 3-5 second cooldowns (not like anyone uses it) and a few other skills with 5 second cooldowns like Jade Winds.

I think that for the length of the cooldowns, both the initial energy cost and the upkeep are pretty stout. Especially with Glint, where the second function of the skills are pretty weak and are almost never actually used outside of “oh shii” scenarios. Particularly Riposting Shadows, usually when you need it you don’t have the energy for it as it’s a third of your total possible energy and more than half of your starting energy.

Lucred.1802:

fluidmonolith.3584:

xXMapcoXx.9614:

See I be just find if the Revy’s skills had one or the other, However that is not the case. The Revy’s weapon and utility skills have both energy cost to use them and a cd after using them. I mean what kinda kitten is that? At first I though the Revy played like the thief were the weapon skills cost initiative and the utility skills had cd, but no the Revy suffers from having an energy cost and when you use any of its skills a cd. Sure you can argue that Revy has the ability to swap from legend to legend and has access to more skills then the other classes, but so does the ele and they don’t have a energy cost and a cd to worry about.

I think it works out best that Rev weapon skills have both cd and energy cost. Let us think about what it would be like if they only had one or the other:

-Weapon skills only cost energy (no cooldown): Rev has some pretty potent weapon skills. For example, staff #5, sword #3, shield #5. With no cooldown, these could be used repeatedly unless they cost absurd amounts of energy. Thief uses this model, but thief doesn’t need initiative for utility skills, while Rev needs energy for utilities. If staff #5 cost 50 energy, for example, you’d never have energy for utility skills.

-Weapon skills have no energy cost, only cooldown: When energy is only used for utility skills, which are generally pretty situational, Rev would often have excess energy and very few choices to make about how to spend it. Imagine Glint with no weapon skill energy cost – Free swiftness, fury, and might forever. This would be broken and boring to play. Utility skill cost could be increased to compensate … but do you really want to pay 80 energy for Jade Winds?

Now, regarding cooldowns on utility skills, I agree that these are often not needed. A few of them (e.g. Jade Winds 5 second cd) were implemented because it was deemed too powerful to use it back to back if you had pooled energy. But for the most part, cooldowns on utility skills are very short (5 seconds or less). I personally do not feel limited by such short utility skill cooldowns most of the time, though there are a few exceptions, such as Inspiring Reinforcement and Phase Traversal.

The only utilities whose cooldowns are shorter than 5 seconds are:
-pain absorption (35 energy, 0 cooldown, half second cast)
-banish enchantment (20 energy, 0 cooldown, half second cast)
-unyielding anguish (30 energy, 0 cooldown, 3/4 second cast)
-embrace the darkness (5 energy, 7 upkeep, 3/4 second cast)
-riposting shadows (30 energy, 0 cooldown, instant cast)
-impossible odds (10 energy, 10 upkeep, instant cast)
-vengeful hammers (5 energy, 7 upkeep, instant cast)
-rite of the great dwarf (50 energy, 1.25 second cast, 1/2 second aftercast)

Now getting into Glint:
-30 second cooldown on Infuse Light
-20 second cooldown on Gaze of Darkness
-15 second cooldown on Elemental Blast
-15 second cooldown on Burst of Strength
-45 second cooldown on Chaotic Release
these are significantly longer than the elite skill cooldowns of most other classes
And that’s on top of most of Ventari having 3-5 second cooldowns (not like anyone uses it) and a few other skills with 5 second cooldowns like Jade Winds.

I think that for the length of the cooldowns, both the initial energy cost and the upkeep are pretty stout. Especially with Glint, where the second function of the skills are pretty weak and are almost never actually used outside of “oh shii” scenarios. Particularly Riposting Shadows, usually when you need it you don’t have the energy for it as it’s a third of your total possible energy and more than half of your starting energy.

This is technically correct, however Glint’s utilities were designed to have a longer cooldown to force the player to choose between maintaining and upkeep or getting an active effect (like signets on other professions). Furthermore, the Glint skills you mention (the active facets) don’t have energy costs at all – they are only limited by cooldowns. Would Elemental Blast be better if the cooldown were reduced to 5 seconds but it cost 15 energy? Most heal skills were also designed to have longer cooldowns for balance purposes. You mention Riposting Shadows having a prohibitively high energy cost, but it doesn’t have a cooldown at all. Heal skills only cost 5 energy. Would heal skills be better if the cooldowns were reduced but the energy cost were increased?

There is only one other utility with a cooldown longer than 5 seconds, and that is Jalis’ Inspiring Reinforcement at 10 seconds. I think we can all agree that some utilities need rebalancing (e.g. phase traversal’s energy cost and cooldown may both be too high), however that doesn’t mean that the system itself is broken.