Guild Wars 2

Seems one glaring problem with rev right now is how there is no way at all to manage energy other than canceling skills or just auto attacking and waiting out the regen. Why we have no skills or traits at all to manage energy use is beyond me. It would alleviate so many problems with the weaker legends but not really affect stronger ones like shiro and glint with upkeep skills because upkeeps are on a fixed rate. Having ways to get a little bit of energy back (static amount, not regeneration pips) would be a difference between night and day for ventari, mallyx, and jalis. Traits would the the ideal place for it, but having those mostly worthless orbs the staff vomits out give a little energy back too would be a good idea.

The reason I bring this up is this: rev is punished for using skills in multiple ways: energy costs, energy degen for upkeep skills, and cooldowns (some even have a pretty high cooldown especially considering the energy cost). THis is most prevalent on weapons. Why weapons use energy too is beyond me. If there were some way to manage energy usage then all of those things mentioned would make perfect sense. But there is not.

I was hoping, since rev relies on auto attacks, that this, in some way would give like 1-4 energy per hit. They also need to slow the OOC energy reset abit too.

You should be switching legends on cooldown; so the essence of energy management for rev is consuming energy at a rate such that you hit zero as your legend switch refreshes. If weapons didn’t use energy this would be pretty much impossible.

I do wish there was a way to cancel Facet of Nature without consuming it or hitting zero energy though; if you switch to Shiro before you’ve hit zero, it stops you activating Impossible Odds which always irritates me (L2P right?).

if thats the case, would be nice if I could slot a single legend to both legend slots and simply keep one legend.

technophebe.7631:

You should be switching legends on cooldown; so the essence of energy management for rev is consuming energy at a rate such that you hit zero as your legend switch refreshes. If weapons didn’t use energy this would be pretty much impossible.

I do wish there was a way to cancel Facet of Nature without consuming it or hitting zero energy though; if you switch to Shiro before you’ve hit zero, it stops you activating Impossible Odds which always irritates me (L2P right?).

you see what you’re saying here though? In order to manage energy, you are forced to abandon a legend to use another, there’s no other choice. then on swap you only get 50% so then you’re stuck with waiting on regen to get much use out of it should you need to use an elite. All of this is slapped very poorly on top of cooldowns and energy usage for simply using your weapon (which also has cooldowns). So basically revs are triple punished for simply playing. If we got energy on weapon swap, or small amounts of energy for auto attack (since that seems to be what the devs prefer we do) then all of this would make sense. You’d still be forced to legend swap in clutch situations, you’d still mainly rely on swapping as the biggest energy return, but there would be a more creative and less boring auto-spam way to play revenant. All of this of course relies on glint being properly balanced since it is the one major thing holding back creative and fun rev builds.

Raziel.8072:

you see what you’re saying here though? In order to manage energy, you are forced to abandon a legend to use another, there’s no other choice. then on swap you only get 50% so then you’re stuck with waiting on regen to get much use out of it should you need to use an elite.

You’re only forced in the sense that it’s optimal to do so. Ele’s (for example) are forced to change attunement for the same reason. There’s nothing to stop an Ele from sitting in Fire Attunement but if they want to get the most out of their class they learn to weave. Switching and getting “only” 50% is a lot better than camping one legend and waiting for 50% of your energy to regen, and you have the additional benefit of revealing a second set of utility skills which are off cooldown.

When in open world PvE I often just stay in Glint with my facets on and my brain off, and that works fine, but if you’re doing group content you have to push a few buttons if you don’t want to be a drag on the group.

Revenant rotation / energy managment is present and in fact is pretty forgiving even with the legend swap, it’s just that our energy / cooldown managment is primarily related to the utility rather than the weapon side of our bar.

What we need is energy regen increases, not hard energy numbers and removal of energy costs for weapons or remove weapon cd’s. I agree with OP, this is one thing keeping some legends weak like jalis and ventari

Roy specifically mentioned, and I agree, that energy regen wasn’t going to be added because it would become a necessity for every build (ironically what Herald is now).

Legends like Jalis and Ventari aren’t weak because of a lack of energy regen. They’re weak because they either have really bad skills or the skills just don’t do enough.

Malchior.5732:

Roy specifically mentioned, and I agree, that energy regen wasn’t going to be added because it would become a necessity for every build (ironically what Herald is now).

Legends like Jalis and Ventari aren’t weak because of a lack of energy regen. They’re weak because they either have really bad skills or the skills just don’t do enough.

And their utilities cost wayyyyyy to much energy for their effects. Heck, even shiro.

otto.5684:

Malchior.5732:

Roy specifically mentioned, and I agree, that energy regen wasn’t going to be added because it would become a necessity for every build (ironically what Herald is now).

Legends like Jalis and Ventari aren’t weak because of a lack of energy regen. They’re weak because they either have really bad skills or the skills just don’t do enough.

And their utilities cost wayyyyyy to much energy for their effects. Heck, even shiro.

Maybe dont spam utility skills then? Shiro energy is mostly okay unless you spam riposting shadows/impossible odds which burn energy like nothing in this game. Not sure how i feel about jade winds tho.. its not something i can cast often if ever.

But i gotta agree. Waiting for energy to regen up or swap is a bit..boring.

Well, that’s kinda the point of energy management. You either manage it and use it correctly or you end up having to wait for it.
Jalis, Ventari, and arguably non-Herald Mallyx just don’t do enough to justify costs in a lot of their skills or they cost too much.
You pay like 30+ energy and then nothing worthwhile happens and like 2-3 of your weapon skills are now locked out for a bit too.

Your not asking for energy management, your asking for an easy mode “spam moar” button which would effectively be the OPPOSITE of energy management

The energy costs and regen rates are balanced so that you CANT do what your asking, your SUPPOSED to swap legends, thats the entire balancing tradeoff for having so many spamable abilities, you have to MANAGE how you spend your energy not just use everything when it goes off cooldown like you do with most other classes

Auto attack was supposed to fill that role, but unfortunately nerfed. Now when your energy gets dry just run around and evade, or AA if the guy is noob.

Well tbh what we have is not really energy management. Its more like do nothing for x seconds and spam aa or burst your energy by the time legend swap come off cd.

We have upkeep skills that drains energy over time but we dont have an option to increase energy over time. At some point i wonder if it wouldnt be better to make energy closer to ini – starting with 100%, faster regeneration but energy itself shared by both legends. Which means if you bursted all you energy, legend swap wont save ya.

Burtnik.5218:

Well tbh what we have is not really energy management. Its more like do nothing for x seconds and spam aa or burst your energy by the time legend swap come off cd.

We have upkeep skills that drains energy over time but we dont have an option to increase energy over time. At some point i wonder if it wouldnt be better to make energy closer to ini – starting with 100%, faster regeneration but energy itself shared by both legends. Which means if you bursted all you energy, legend swap wont save ya.

Well, if you’re complaining about waiting, your suggestion encourages even more of it, but doesn’t encourage legend swapping at all :L

It works “better” on Thief because they have ways to regain it and it’s not shared between utilities.
Revenant shares it between more skills and doesn’t have abilities to regain it faster outside of swapping, which does bring in some choice: Do you wait 5 – 6 seconds to pull off that skill you want or do you swap now, but potentially have skills that are a bit less useful at the moment?

On my rev I have no problem with energy. Once I a blue moon when fighting a 5 man roaming team and I want to chain jade winds I might notice it. Swap legends. Run herald. Don’t mash buttons. Win. Problem solved.

Malchior.5732:

Burtnik.5218:

Well tbh what we have is not really energy management. Its more like do nothing for x seconds and spam aa or burst your energy by the time legend swap come off cd.

We have upkeep skills that drains energy over time but we dont have an option to increase energy over time. At some point i wonder if it wouldnt be better to make energy closer to ini – starting with 100%, faster regeneration but energy itself shared by both legends. Which means if you bursted all you energy, legend swap wont save ya.

Well, if you’re complaining about waiting, your suggestion encourages even more of it, but doesn’t encourage legend swapping at all :L

It works “better” on Thief because they have ways to regain it and it’s not shared between utilities.
Revenant shares it between more skills and doesn’t have abilities to regain it faster outside of swapping, which does bring in some choice: Do you wait 5 – 6 seconds to pull off that skill you want or do you swap now, but potentially have skills that are a bit less useful at the moment?

Thatts not true tbh. Sometimes you want different set of utility skills as they fits x situation more. I cannot imagine camping Shiro all day long for example. But well it doesnt matter, rev would have to be reworked from 0. I just dont feel we have much energy management, thats all. Its just drain drain drain or autoatk for +5/s or..swap legend and repeat the process in 10sec. I dont see 100 energy often outside of wvw blobs

Sounds like it would be better for you if legend swapping was keeping your current energy state…
Am I right ?

MrHarses.6801:

Sounds like it would be better for you if legend swapping was keeping your current energy state…
Am I right ?

Sort of. It would be harder to manage energy but at same time more rewarding when you swap by choice to adapt to X situation rather than current burst energy to 0 before swap come off cd

you manage your energy by not wasting it and spamming it like a there’s no tomorrow..

I was previously opposed to the energy gain on legend swapping, but it does offer one thing that Revenants really need. It is an emergency button which can be used while stunned, instant cast. It puts us at 50 energy and can be traited to break stuns, remove a condition, and do damage or healing. Even if not traited to break stuns, I can swap into Shiro, Jalis, or Glint and then instantly stun break with my new energy.

I would rather see some balance changes to the current system. Right now it’s almost always best to spend all your energy then swap to get +50 energy. There are some traits in Invocation that reward keeping high energy, but they are not simply potent enough compared to the advantage of the alternative behavior of spending energy on potent skills then swapping. We could adjust this several ways:

-change the amount of energy normalization on legend swapping (e.g. to 40 energy – of course this would be a nerf and would need to be compensated somewhere else)

-change from an energy normalization to an energy gain (e.g. you always gain 25 energy when swapping legends)

-rework weak Invocation traits to better reward swapping at or maintaining high energy (>50)

Burtnik.5218:

MrHarses.6801:

Sounds like it would be better for you if legend swapping was keeping your current energy state…
Am I right ?

Sort of. It would be harder to manage energy but at same time more rewarding when you swap by choice to adapt to X situation rather than current burst energy to 0 before swap come off cd

I think changing the “50 energy gain” on legend swap to just “keep current energy state” could be a pretty big nerf as there are no other way to gain energy.

What could be fine to compensate would be to give an net energy gain on swap (meaning added to current energy). Maybe not 50 for sure but some value to be tested.
Or another way could be to allow energy gain on all weapon AA. Can even imagine some “on crit energy gain” when traited (invocation ? devastation ? baseline ?)
With recent huge nerf on AA this would give some interest to this skill…

Just ideas…

While boring, its better if it stay the way it is atm imo. Its working so better to not mess with that stuff as you will have to rebalance everything around this change.

I dont understand one thing tho – why my energy automatically reset to 50 ooc instead of decaying slowly like war adrenaline?

Burtnik.5218:

While boring, its better if it stay the way it is atm imo. Its working so better to not mess with that stuff as you will have to rebalance everything around this change.

I dont understand one thing tho – why my energy automatically reset to 50 ooc instead of decaying slowly like war adrenaline?

instead of decaying slowing like war adrenaline and eventually completely gone? yea, i would like to stay with 50% i would love for war to have 50% too

lighter.2708:

Burtnik.5218:

While boring, its better if it stay the way it is atm imo. Its working so better to not mess with that stuff as you will have to rebalance everything around this change.

I dont understand one thing tho – why my energy automatically reset to 50 ooc instead of decaying slowly like war adrenaline?

instead of decaying slowing like war adrenaline and eventually completely gone? yea, i would like to stay with 50% i would love for war to have 50% too

Decaying slowly to 50. Right now when you leave combat its just puff 100 energy back to 50. Just like that. Before energy slowly decayed to 50 in beta.

This topic was talked about again and again in HoT beta. Basically, the boss man stated it will never happen. Basically, energy costs will be adjusted on the per ability or per utility only.

Good luck trying to have energy costs reduced because autoattacks were nerfed.

The only thing I ask for is for the energy to not be reset to 50 when swapping legends. It’s quite gamebreaking when fighting against a condi build when I need to swap to mallyx for utility 7 for the resistance. Im either stuck in autoattack for energy to regenerate so i can apply resistance again or i use my attack skills and die to condi in a very short time. Utility 7 is very good when pulling condi from teammates and get a very long resistance buff duration but in 1v1 it’s very very lacking even when traited for max resistance duration.

yiksing.9432:

The only thing I ask for is for the energy to not be reset to 50 when swapping legends. It’s quite gamebreaking when fighting against a condi build when I need to swap to mallyx for utility 7 for the resistance. Im either stuck in autoattack for energy to regenerate so i can apply resistance again or i use my attack skills and die to condi in a very short time. Utility 7 is very good when pulling condi from teammates and get a very long resistance buff duration but in 1v1 it’s very very lacking even when traited for max resistance duration.

Energy management is not the problem here. Lack of frequent or whole-13 clean of conditions utility is.

When the only counter to heavy condition play is going into one Legend (Mallyx) and traiting for Dem Def which requires traiting in Corruption line means there is a much larger problem with Revenant. But this is not an energy issue…

Interesting
So if somebody is using ventari, and under attack, should they use AoE heal or not? One use won’t do the job, so do I spam or swap legends. Shiro comes up, now what? Do Ispam avoid or use heal and something else. What?

What can iI do that won’t require spam of a legend skill that already cost around 20-30 energy?