Guild Wars 2

Now that we finally know how the elite specs will unlock, I’m wondering if we will be at a massive disadvantage compared to everyone else.

If we need to unlock our skills, doesn’t that make Legendary Dragon Stance completely worthless for a while?

For example: Unlocking Reaper will let a necro use GS and Reaper Shroud, but they don’t have their shouts, so they can use their old skills until they unlock the shouts.

Herald will unlock Shield and Legendary Dragon Stance, however, since our skills are locked to a specific stance, we’ll be stuck with empty slots until we unlock all of the skills. We get given a new mechanic, but if we try to USE that mechanic we are punished by losing skills (to the point where LDS is worthless until you have unlocked ALL of the skills).

Every other class loses a traitline at the start of their elite spec, but Revenant is the only one that loses a traitline AND their utility skills.

Am I missing something (eg, we get skills for free but other traits are more expensive, or all of our skills are at the start of the path), or is herald really going to be useless for everything but Facet of Nature and “you can use a shield” until we invest a large chunk of hero points? (and due to being the new class, we don’t even have “extra” hero points from Central Tyria like other classes to offset the problem)

You can choose a different legend except Glint so you don’t have empty slots.
Problem solved

Yeah that was my main concern too, but let’s be honest: would you even use a spec that’s not at least 50% unlocked? I think I won’t.

Gaaroth.2567:

Yeah that was my main concern too, but let’s be honest: would you even use a spec that’s not at least 50% unlocked? I think I won’t.

Nobody will force you to do that. I’ll play Shiro+Jalis/Ventari until unlocking all Glint’s… Maybe with unlocking swiftness i change that

Ilharn.6813:

Gaaroth.2567:

Yeah that was my main concern too, but let’s be honest: would you even use a spec that’s not at least 50% unlocked? I think I won’t.

Nobody will force you to do that. I’ll play Shiro+Jalis/Ventari until unlocking all Glint’s… Maybe with unlocking swiftness i change that

exactly ;-)

Ilharn.6813:

You can choose a different legend except Glint so you don’t have empty slots.
Problem solved

I wouldn’t say it’s “solved”, it’s a workaround (and is what I was planning on doing if it was the case (Shiro/Mallyx), this thread was mainly to point out to Roy that we rely on hero points to a FAR greater and more debilitating degree than other Elites) but the core problem is still there.

all of the other elite spec mechanics are still useable (if less effective) without their traits and skills, whilst Herald is literally useless until you add skills.

Gaaroth.2567:

Yeah that was my main concern too, but let’s be honest: would you even use a spec that’s not at least 50% unlocked? I think I won’t.

I probably would on my Reaper, sure I lose a traitline, but Greatsword and Reaper Shroud make up for it, especially since I’m planning on going minion master, so the only utility I need from Reaper is Rise! and the only important trait is literally the first major one you unlock :P

You can always pick Herald line for 60 HP pick, for example, Shiro and Jalis as your legends and still have very useful Facet of Nature.

60 pts gives you shield from herald and facet of nature and you can still use other legend’s skills. You’re not worse for it than necros.

Killyox.3950:

You can always pick Herald line for 60 HP pick, for example, Shiro and Jalis as your legends and still have very useful Facet of Nature.

60 pts gives you shield from herald and facet of nature and you can still use other legend’s skills. You’re not worse for it than necros.

That will force you to play with just two traits lines, I prefer to use two different legends and three full lines instead.

kitten widget.9301:

Killyox.3950:

You can always pick Herald line for 60 HP pick, for example, Shiro and Jalis as your legends and still have very useful Facet of Nature.

60 pts gives you shield from herald and facet of nature and you can still use other legend’s skills. You’re not worse for it than necros.

That will force you to play with just two traits lines, I prefer to use two different legends and three full lines instead.

Your last Point is true for EVERY Profession. If you make a Fresh Character and farm the first 60 Points for the Elite, you will have an empty Trait Line until later.

What NapTooN said pretty much :P Same for everyone.

I just want my swiftness is all. Guess ill be stuck with 15% speed boosters as no way Im removing my strenght runes off the ascended armor

For leveling I’ve got a stack of staffs with swiftness sigils and would use devestation/salvation. Throws out enough swiftness to keep you rolling between mobs, and for longer distance stuff there is always the dashes/teleports to help speed things up.

There is also the lightning field on jalis that you can blast for swiftness with our multiple blast finishers from mace hammer and staff

NapTooN.6283:

Your last Point is true for EVERY Profession. If you make a Fresh Character and farm the first 60 Points for the Elite, you will have an empty Trait Line until later.

I did not say that it wasn’t true for all the other professions, obviously it is so I would do the same for any other profession (except the legends part obviously).

It is a new class so be happy to use tome of knowledge on them and not need to level it to 80.

Haralin.1473:

It is a new class so be happy to use tome of knowledge on them and not need to level it to 80.

“just be happy that revenants are allowed to use waypoints”

consistency of standard mechanics is expected and not something to count as a positive, and certainly not something that should be counted against other complaints.

evnw.9324:

There is also the lightning field on jalis that you can blast for swiftness with our multiple blast finishers from mace hammer and staff

This and Impossible odds makes you super fast. If you know how to properly do the blast finishers and flip in and out of Legends to regen energy than you can zip around a map pretty quickly.

Calcifire.1864:

Haralin.1473:

It is a new class so be happy to use tome of knowledge on them and not need to level it to 80.

“just be happy that revenants are allowed to use waypoints”

consistency of standard mechanics is expected and not something to count as a positive, and certainly not something that should be counted against other complaints.

I don’t understand any more what is your complaint?
When anyone unlocks an elite spec they get the mechanic and weapon, so do revenants.
If they want to use them they have to slot the empty trait line, as do revenants.
If they haven’t unlocked the utility they want, they slot some other skills, as do revenants by not equipping Legendary Dragon stance.
(You have brought up all of these “arguments” in this thread. So agreed? They are all not supporting you?)

(assuming heal is first unlock)
Now the only inequality I see is both unlock heal and you as Revenant want to use Glints OP heal together with Shiro, then you are punished by having no utilities on half your bar. But it is SO late to complain about that, revenants have less utility build variety, that is their core profession mechanic that we have known about for 9 months, and in return you get twice the heal skills, twice the utilities and twice the elites.
It is not an inequality that is brought up by elite specs costing a lot it is like says Eles are worst class because it takes them 20 levels to unlock earth attunement(iirc) so they are compromised.

Arutha.9874:

Calcifire.1864:

Haralin.1473:

It is a new class so be happy to use tome of knowledge on them and not need to level it to 80.

“just be happy that revenants are allowed to use waypoints”

consistency of standard mechanics is expected and not something to count as a positive, and certainly not something that should be counted against other complaints.

I don’t understand any more what is your complaint?
When anyone unlocks an elite spec they get the mechanic and weapon, so do revenants.
If they want to use them they have to slot the empty trait line, as do revenants.
If they haven’t unlocked the utility they want, they slot some other skills, as do revenants by not equipping Legendary Dragon stance.
(You have brought up all of these “arguments” in this thread. So agreed? They are all not supporting you?)

(assuming heal is first unlock)
Now the only inequality I see is both unlock heal and you as Revenant want to use Glints OP heal together with Shiro, then you are punished by having no utilities on half your bar. But it is SO late to complain about that, revenants have less utility build variety, that is their core profession mechanic that we have known about for 9 months, and in return you get twice the heal skills, twice the utilities and twice the elites.
It is not an inequality that is brought up by elite specs costing a lot it is like says Eles are worst class because it takes them 20 levels to unlock earth attunement(iirc) so they are compromised.

I would personally agree that eles should get Earth unlocked with the rest of their attunements, it’s stupid that they don’t, then again I’m one of the people that despises the NPE and thinks everything should be unlockable based on the player’s choice like at release.

my complaint isn’t a complaint, nor is it a debate.

it’s asking for clarification: due to our unique utility switching mechanics will we be at a disadvantage compared to other elite specs because of our lack of utilities, and if so, what is being done to mitigate that? (for example, giving us the skills baseline but making other things more expensive, or by moving our skills to the front of the reward path as we rely on them far more than other classes rely on theirs) otherwise our new class mechanic is useless until we get the skills unlocked, a limitation that no other class shares (a reaper can still use reaper shroud without shouts).

I have no idea why people then decided to spout offtopic things like workarounds or to be happy that I can use knowledge tomes to skip leveling, or tried to make it a debate, but sadly there is no way to contact a dev directly other than the forums.

I personally going to stick with traveler runes both pve and pvp and dont give a kitten about swiftness from Glint.

I was thinking of leveling my revenant normal. But with this much grind needed after lvl 80 for elite spec I’m thinking tomes will be the answer.. to bad.

NapTooN.6283:

kitten widget.9301:

Killyox.3950:

You can always pick Herald line for 60 HP pick, for example, Shiro and Jalis as your legends and still have very useful Facet of Nature.

60 pts gives you shield from herald and facet of nature and you can still use other legend’s skills. You’re not worse for it than necros.

That will force you to play with just two traits lines, I prefer to use two different legends and three full lines instead.

Your last Point is true for EVERY Profession. If you make a Fresh Character and farm the first 60 Points for the Elite, you will have an empty Trait Line until later.

If instead of a fresh character you’ve got map completion, you could have over 200 hero points ready for your elite spec. If that isn’t enough to at least cover up to a grandmaster major, I’d be surprised.

Still, personally I’m just planning to run other legends and specialisations until I can get herald up to a worthwhile state.

Maybe it’s just me but I like to pick my battles.

A week from now most people who want to be a Herald will be a full Herald. In the grand scheme of things this is pretty low on my list of concerns about the Revenant.

Calcifire.1864:

I would personally agree that eles should get Earth unlocked with the rest of their attunements, it’s stupid that they don’t, then again I’m one of the people that despises the NPE and thinks everything should be unlockable based on the player’s choice like at release.

my complaint isn’t a complaint, nor is it a debate.

it’s asking for clarification: due to our unique utility switching mechanics will we be at a disadvantage compared to other elite specs because of our lack of utilities, and if so, what is being done to mitigate that? (for example, giving us the skills baseline but making other things more expensive, or by moving our skills to the front of the reward path as we rely on them far more than other classes rely on theirs) otherwise our new class mechanic is useless until we get the skills unlocked, a limitation that no other class shares (a reaper can still use reaper shroud without shouts).

I have no idea why people then decided to spout offtopic things like workarounds or to be happy that I can use knowledge tomes to skip leveling, or tried to make it a debate, but sadly there is no way to contact a dev directly other than the forums.

Good to hear focused reply, but I disagree, Unique Quirks between classes mechanics should not be discouraged. Especially if they converge to balanced points later.
You might as well complain that guardian has access to swiftness from lvl 3 due to staff 4 while no other class has swiftness. If you agree again with my example and we keep going down this rabbit hole we will end up with only 1 profession in GW2.

I also hope you will recognize that Heralds New class mechanic is NOT Legendary Dragon Stance it is instead Facet of Nature.
Legendary Dragon Stance == Shouts for Reaper, which they do not have access to after 60 points.
Facet of Nature == Reaper Shroud, both of which are available after 60 points.

Arutha.9874:

Calcifire.1864:

I would personally agree that eles should get Earth unlocked with the rest of their attunements, it’s stupid that they don’t, then again I’m one of the people that despises the NPE and thinks everything should be unlockable based on the player’s choice like at release.

my complaint isn’t a complaint, nor is it a debate.

it’s asking for clarification: due to our unique utility switching mechanics will we be at a disadvantage compared to other elite specs because of our lack of utilities, and if so, what is being done to mitigate that? (for example, giving us the skills baseline but making other things more expensive, or by moving our skills to the front of the reward path as we rely on them far more than other classes rely on theirs) otherwise our new class mechanic is useless until we get the skills unlocked, a limitation that no other class shares (a reaper can still use reaper shroud without shouts).

I have no idea why people then decided to spout offtopic things like workarounds or to be happy that I can use knowledge tomes to skip leveling, or tried to make it a debate, but sadly there is no way to contact a dev directly other than the forums.

Good to hear focused reply, but I disagree, Unique Quirks between classes mechanics should not be discouraged. Especially if they converge to balanced points later.
You might as well complain that guardian has access to swiftness from lvl 3 due to staff 4 while no other class has swiftness. If you agree again with my example and we keep going down this rabbit hole we will end up with only 1 profession in GW2.

I also hope you will recognize that Heralds New class mechanic is NOT Legendary Dragon Stance it is instead Facet of Nature.
Legendary Dragon Stance == Shouts for Reaper, which they do not have access to after 60 points.
Facet of Nature == Reaper Shroud, both of which are available after 60 points.

We’ll have to agree to disagree then, though I think we may be disagreeing on different points, my underlying concern is that herald will be considered useless until it has most (if not all) of the skills, making people rush through the content just so they can enjoy herald properly. whilst all other classes can instantly start using their mechanic to its fullest, herald is stuck with an empty stance, leading to a bad experience overall (you can see this already, people are already stating their intention to either ignore herald or to rush the points, rather than allowing for a feeling of progression as elite specs were intended to do)

it’s an especially significant problem for Revenant, as Rev was built with Herald in mind, it is an intrinsic part of the class rather than an additional part like the other elite specs. (I’ve actually seen and experienced this before, which is the reason for my concern, Astrologian was very similar in FFXIV, and it shows. it feels “incomplete” when you are playing it at lv 50, because unlike all the non-heavensward jobs that were built around 50, it was always meant to be played at lv60. it feels great at 60, and incomplete at 50, whilst the other jobs feel great at 50 and better at 60. it made leveling as AST feel like removing weights rather than getting stronger)

(this is my main beef with the NPE as well, it promotes rushing through content by making you feel overly limited early on whilst teasing later unrestricted content, making early-game unattractive, as opposed to making late game desirable (the stick instead of the carrot), the end result being “thank god that’s over, now I can start to have fun”, rather than “that was fun, but this will be even better”)

for “mechanic” I’ve been going off the minor adept trait in the elite specializations (eg, I consider both FoN, and LDS to be our mechanic as they are specifically named in the Herald Adept Minor trait)

Calcifire.1864:

For “mechanic” I’ve been going off the minor adept trait in the elite specializations (eg, I consider both FoN, and LDS to be our mechanic as they are specifically named in the Herald Adept Minor trait)

Last time as the rest seems opinion at this point :-)

Revenant:
You can now equip a shield, use legendary dragon stance skills, and gain access to the facet of nature.

Druid:
You can equip staves and gain access to glyphs. You can become a celestial avatar once you gain enough astral force. Generate astral force by healing allies and damaging foes.

Daredevil:
Gain access to the physical skill category and staff weapon type. Your maximum endurance threshold is increased.

Reaper:
You can equip greatswords and use reaper shouts. Death shroud is replaced with reaper’s shroud, which has more melee oriented skills.

All from Wiki. So most of them follow the:
1. Weapon 2. Utility Skills 3. Profession Mechanic formula.
Granted some of the other professions have weird ones like DH forgetting to mention LB, etc.

Arutha.9874:

I also hope you will recognize that Heralds New class mechanic is NOT Legendary Dragon Stance it is instead Facet of Nature.

Tbh.. facet of nature says legendary dragon stance so youre not quite right there.

Kodiak.3281:

Maybe it’s just me but I like to pick my battles.

A week from now most people who want to be a Herald will be a full Herald. In the grand scheme of things this is pretty low on my list of concerns about the Revenant.

Agreed. I know everyone wants to have everything the moment the expansion launches but once we get through the process, we will have all the time to do whatever we want.

As much as I want to have Herald unlocked, I don’t want to blast through all the new stuff to do it.

timewise, yes. But not that bad. Just give it a day or two, i guarantee you that you will see heralds running around in packs…….. led by me.