Guild Wars 2

(I also have a second video coming of later this night when I get time to add all the video which will be of NA Prime Time)

I spent most of this weekend on Herald in WvW. My initial build I took was this but over time a few things changed to adapt better to the WvW environment of what was useful and what wasn’t. This was my first time ever on front line (and it shows) and it was pretty early in the morning so my game play wasn’t the best to start out with. By Sunday evening I had most of the game play worked out but unfortunately forgot to record.

Glint
My initial, pleasant, surprise at Glint was that we get +5 energy regen at all times making Facets fairly maintainable. This means the game play largely becomes about energy management. By the end I had come up with little Facet combinations. So for example traveling I would use Nature/Light/Elements. Upon engagement I would drop Elements and replace this with Darnkess, firing off Nature upon engagement (once my allies have done stability) to get the +2 regen back. Facet of Strength and Chaos were mostly for their active effects, both very strong AOE moves. Once in a great while I would keep those active, such as Strength when PvDooring and one time I even stacked a ton of protection before we pushed through a choke.

My initial reaction, like others, is that wow Facets are OP cause most of them give +Duration stacking on boons which can lead to certain boons being on forever or stacked so high they are effectively on forever (because if someone else adds Fury on top of infinite Fury it just increases). However honestly the energy management can be pretty horrible at times and trying to fight on 1 energy regen can be really difficult the longer you go until you have to swap out. While the Fury duration will often times carry between a swap and back to Glint, any kind of boon strip in that period will make you start over from scratch.

Biggest frustration with Glint was mostly actives being cancelled due to CC’s and cast times. Re-watching video footage I see countless times where I go to activate Chaos only to be left with Facet of Chaos on because Chaotic Release got interrupted. One point in the video above I run out of energy because of it, so it can be frustrating.

Jalis
I originally thought Jalis wouldn’t be very good but after putting my hands on it, it isn’t too bad. Forced Engagement is useless in this setting. It’s an Elite cost skill without an Elite effect. Inspiring Reinforcements has a second life not only as a damage field (you can see I drop it on a few downs) but also with Enhanced Bulwark it gains a second life as a source of Stability again that isn’t completely useless for WvW. I use Vengeful Hammers a few times as well for some additional Cleave as well as reducing the amount of damage taken which was pretty noticeable. The new cast times on Rite is also good enough and you can see I cast it a few times even under pressure which is perfect.

Weapons
Staff I felt is the natural front line weapon. With a Whirl Finisher Auto attack, a 2 second block, a heal/cleanse/blast for refreshes, and of course a evade charge allowing us to leap into combat with the Commander it’s just the obvious choice. With Burst of Strength and Chaotic Release supplanting it’s AOE strength I felt my damage was “ok” but not the best with Staff.

I initially tried Mace with Shield. While the Mace is fairly solid with both a Fire Field and a Blast Finisher (both useful) the Shield is just non-functional. Envoy of Exub heal, while stronger than the Staff heal, lacks a Blast Finisher and 2 seconds of Protection just isn’t useful in this setting (as it’s usually designed to protect against the next hit only with something that low duration). Crystal Hibernation is just a non-starter. In WvW mobility is life and rooting yourself in place for any duration of time just won’t work out.

After Shield I tried Axe, and it worked great when we were roaming about. Axe let me catch up to people very quickly when running them down and even had a second disruption with Temporal Rift. The problem that continued however was a lack of Range in this setup. Searing and Echoing on the Mace only go so far and many cases in WvW you are forced to stop and ranged. Guardians tend to use their staff during this and we have no real answer to that with Mace/Axe + Staff.

Finally I said screw it and went Hammer + Staff and honestly it was pretty fantastic. You can use most of the Hammer abilities with great effectiveness on the front line. CORuin is like a Shot Gun blast. You also have Phase Smash for clearing Necro Marks. Field of the Mists works amazingly well for absorbing incoming projectiles in a ranged stand off and Drop the Hammer catches so many people on the run. It also gives you 2 blast finishers for blasting Water on a refresh.

Traits
I did switch a few by the end. I had spec’d out of Fierce Infusion for Cleansing Channel but honestly I am going to be doing Cruel Repercussion. The number of times I see CORuin blocked when used on a Zerg means that next time I cast it the thing is going to do +50% damage which will be insane (detarget people so you don’t auto attack).

Swift Gale seemed nice, but honestly playing with Radiant Revival really saved the Commander’s bacon a few times later this last weekend from pick teams trying to focus them down. I haven’t noticed the Super Speed on stun break yet so hard to justify it.

Summary
Over all, by far my favorite build on the Revenant so far. Not much more to say, had a blast.

Sounds like fun, thanks for the write-up.

This was a pretty cool video! And yeah I agree that hammer is a better weapon for WvW, let alone any power based build than mace. Its power coefficients are to low, even if its condi-cleave is really good.

I haven’t WvWed seriously in a year, but this video has made me want to try it again when HoT comes out, although my complete drop in FPS might deter me otherwise.

And I know we’ve argued a lot about tempest in the past on the ele forums, and to be honest, I’m kind of over it. The only reason I liked it was the fact that I had howler. Everytime I played it, its felt unfun. But after trying herald in just pvp, it kinda reignited my interest for the expansion. Anyway, nice video, and kudos to you.

Well the ideas behind Mace largely were the abundance of Fire Field and the triple blast finisher and not really the damage. The problem with Echoing Eruption however is that it’s a leap followed up by (blast)(blast)(blast) in that order and area where they blast so you often times have to back up super far to land 1-2 blast finishers in the area you want which just isn’t practical.

3 Way battles are the only things that get me. I have a lot of footage I can’t really show because it’s honestly pretty bad with how WvW is setup when all 3 factions are fighting in the same area. I have a lot of fights where I do poorly not because of character or ability but simply because abilities don’t trigger. I watched me spam my heal skills for like 30 seconds one fight and eventually just fell over dead because nothing worked.

All good man. Elementalist is a mess as far as classes go. They already got the lowest armor/HP of any class. The heals they do are all tiny and small. The bulk of their survivability is all boons. If they tug on one thread the whole thing collapses like we saw for a very long time with the Elementalist. I’ve actually been very surprised how little boon hate has been added with the expansion to help counter the class and others like it so focused on boons. That said everyone has interests what they want for each class as PvEers want a Specialization to be good for them, SPvPers good for them and WvWers good for them and Tempest was definitely no exception.

Kodiak.3281:

Well the ideas behind Mace largely were the abundance of Fire Field and the triple blast finisher and not really the damage. The problem with Echoing Eruption however is that it’s a leap followed up by (blast)(blast)(blast) in that order and area where they blast so you often times have to back up super far to land 1-2 blast finishers in the area you want which just isn’t practical.

3 Way battles are the only things that get me. I have a lot of footage I can’t really show because it’s honestly pretty bad with how WvW is setup when all 3 factions are fighting in the same area. I have a lot of fights where I do poorly not because of character or ability but simply because abilities don’t trigger. I watched me spam my heal skills for like 30 seconds one fight and eventually just fell over dead because nothing worked.

All good man. Elementalist is a mess as far as classes go. They already got the lowest armor/HP of any class. The heals they do are all tiny and small. The bulk of their survivability is all boons. If they tug on one thread the whole thing collapses like we saw for a very long time with the Elementalist. I’ve actually been very surprised how little boon hate has been added with the expansion to help counter the class and others like it so focused on boons. That said everyone has interests what they want for each class as PvEers want a Specialization to be good for them, SPvPers good for them and WvWers good for them and Tempest was definitely no exception.

Yeah, I can’t really speak for T1, but I used to be really active in a SoS WvW raiding guild. I don’t even know if SoS is still T2 or not because I don’t follow the scene at all anymore. While it was fun, since SoS is such an oceanic/aus carried server, during the NA timezone it’d be so hard to really succeed at just wandering around looking for fights because maguuma and the other sever that I can’t even remember would just destroy as left and right. Hahaha but yeah I’d get back into it if my computer could handle it realistically. The guild I was in was prepping for GvGs too, but then I quit due to general boredom with the game, and I think I was kittened at underwhelming necromancer balance patch too at the time. Then the expansion lured me back, so I’m here, and I’m honestly thinking of swapping my main to revenant since its just so fun, effective, and flavorful compared to other classes.

And yeah the hammer range, high AoE damage, and the relatively low cooldown blasts all make it sound really awesome in theory. I am afraid it will get nerfed due to all of the 20K CoR hits in zerker gear in PvP.

So the long story short is there was some drama in T1, some guilds tried to push BG to T2, wasn’t working so they moved to T2 to try to push another server up and disrupt everything. Except ANet then locked the server transfers effectively. This basically fully wrecked T2 as the guilds that moved around are fairly renown for using “disreputable” tactics which drove a lot of guilds off all the T2 servers (YB, SOS, and FA). Most of those groups moved down to T3 where they can do more GvG style action. This has left 4 T1 servers effectively bringing back the scenario where T1 is full of action each week and T2 is just a free week for the T1 server that goes down.

Really be surprised if there were 20k single hits with CORuin and not multi-hits such as people running away and getting blapped with 2 hits or that number is based on hitting multiple people. Most I’ve hit for in WvW with all things going for it was around 9k (individual target) at max distance with 223% crit damage.

Kodiak.3281:

So the long story short is there was some drama in T1, some guilds tried to push BG to T2, wasn’t working so they moved to T2 to try to push another server up and disrupt everything. Except ANet then locked the server transfers effectively. This basically fully wrecked T2 as the guilds that moved around are fairly renown for using “disreputable” tactics which drove a lot of guilds off all the T2 servers (YB, SOS, and FA). Most of those groups moved down to T3 where they can do more GvG style action. This has left 4 T1 servers effectively bringing back the scenario where T1 is full of action each week and T2 is just a free week for the T1 server that goes down.

Really be surprised if there were 20k single hits with CORuin and not multi-hits such as people running away and getting blapped with 2 hits or that number is based on hitting multiple people. Most I’ve hit for in WvW with all things going for it was around 9k (individual target) at max distance with 223% crit damage.

Oh wow, yeah due to the costs of transfers and the horrible chaos you describe, I’ll probably stick to spvp. I’ve been thinking about trying to get involved in tourneys for a long time anyway.

Yeah there was a screenshot of someone hitting Pyroatheist (a mesmer forum person) with CoR for 20K with pvp stats (most likely boosted by cruel reprcussions). Its in the complaining that herald is OP thread in the pvp forum..

nearlight.3064:

Yeah there was a screenshot of someone hitting Pyroatheist (a mesmer forum person) with CoR for 20K with pvp stats (most likely boosted by cruel reprcussions). Its in the complaining that herald is OP thread in the pvp forum..

I keep forgetting about that trait because I haven’t used it. If the trait is a problem, I hope they adjust that rather than the base skill.

(second vid)

Here’s a later vid from that same evening during NA Prime time. Fights were erratic this week due to YB coming up and certain groups wanting 2v1s on all servers. By this point in game play I had gotten better with the Facet management, but still wasn’t great at it yet. I also, after this evening’s fights, came to the realization that Mace/Axe with Staff was just impractical given the number of stand off engagements that occur (IE: Unable to push a choke) which lead to my ultimate Hammer/Staff decision.

Great vids! Thanks for sharing them and your build too!

Nice videos, thanks!
Are you planning to test the new Ventari?

No. While the cast times, previously, were an issue (take X seconds to move the thing, Y seconds to cast ability) the main issues remain.

As a front line Revenant you are forced to have a big bursty heal ready to go and you can see many cases where if I didn’t have Infuse Light ready to go I’d just straight up be dead. All of Ventari healing is sustained healing with many tiny (1000 here, 1000 there) heals and heal pick ups (good luck finding a healing globe under a pile of AOE indicators).

The main issue continues to be a lack of stunbreak or stability. Back line pressure is very real and you have to have a way to manage that. Other Legends, such as Shiro or Jalis, are great at this but all your Ventari benefits disappear soon as you switch to them. Compare this to an Elementalist who retains Water staff abilities yet still have strong access to triple Cantrip for defense. All it takes is a single forward Static Field (Lightning Flash → Static Field on backline) and you’re pretty much done because your only options are swap out of Ventari, thus not using it, or stay there and get ran over. That scenario was incredibly common during BWE testing.

In fact the changes indicate that it’s less likely to be addressed. By decreasing cast times, cool downs and energy costs it makes it highly unlikely there will be a stun break component added. WvW balance is always considered dead last in developer decisions and at this point you just learn to expect it. A great example is the stability stranglehold that Guardians have and continue to have over WvW groups. They remain the only source of “good” stability (aoe, 3-5 stacks, 3-5s duration, 25-35s cool down) and continue to introduce abilities that grant a single stack of stability on ridiculous duration of 1-3 seconds.

Ventari will most likely be regulated to environments where personal survivability is less important such as certain PvE encounters.

Kodiak, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what other roles Revenant can play in WvW, since you seem to understand it so well. For someone that is interested in participating, but tends to trail the group a bit and isn’t confident enough to run at the front of the pack, what do you suggest?

So originally my back line build largely revolved around Mallyx and Corruption mostly revolving around area denial back line with Displacement from Unyielding Anguish. Unfortunately that’s been largely scrapped at this stage. From that point we basically have two ways forward for WvW.

First is to just use the Front Line oriented build above with a back line play style. For example since we’re on the back line we don’t need as much Armor. With that in mind we can simply swap in some Berserker/Valkyrie (because we don’t need crit with +40% crit with Perma Fury) Accessories and we end up with a build looking like this. If you were going to run this full time and had no aspirations for front line, you could probably swap out the Hoelbrak Runes for Rage runes instead or something else. You’d still use Gaze for stun break or swap to Jalis if really locked down. Warning now that Infuse Light is pretty lack luster on the back line because it doesn’t get near as much bomb damage (which makes it shine) when played properly.

Second is you can go for a much more selfish/dps oriented build. I call it selfish because you don’t really offer that much to your team with this build and it’s more designed to maximize damage and self survivability by staying in Shiro a lot. It can dish out tremendous damage, and I’ve seen CORuin up to 9k hit plus a 2k follow up with Enchanted Daggers. In the new BWE3 Devastation we’d take Malicious Reprisal and still keep Assassin’s Presence. This is because when you fight you’re going to see a lot of blocks due to passive benefits of Guardians. Use Riposting Shadows and Impossible Odds to stay mobile. At 235% crit damage (Presence) plus 12% damage with Fury on it’s going to hit like a truck. Jalis is there mostly as a swap for stun break (swap → Rite is 2 stun breaks) when you need to stun break and keep going forward rather than retreat with Riposting.

A lot of back line is mastering CORuin. I’m still working on this. There’s a lot of nuances to CORuin with hills and distance traveled. For one it’s only about 1000 range, not 1200. This is because the animation goes further than the hits register so you can look like you hit but you won’t. If you are on an incline, it will go up and over the incline. If you’re below an incline it will stop when going up after 1 tick. If you are above an incline it will stop usually on the incline as well. De-Targeting players is huge with CORuin as it turns it into a dumbfire Shot gun. Knowing when to target a player and when to not have a target is huge for proper usage (getting most hits in).

A question on CoR. Can it hit oil pots? Can the AA?

That’s actually not too far off from the build I plan to use for PvE. Jalis/Glint w berserkyrie trinkets. I plan to use devastation over retaliation for that, but can definitely see where using Retribution would be beneficial in WvW (and certain fights in PvE)

CORuin can’t hit oil pots unless you are up top. Neither can Phase Smash, but it will give you the target to do it (but you’ll leap against the base of the wall/door). Auto Attack can hit as well Drop the Hammer can as well (and stun the operator).

There’s actually a lot of various rules for Hammer when below/above targets and generally speaking the above covers all rules.

And yes, because of our natural high armor and medium health pool we can largely afford to go mostly offensive to the point being very similar to a PvE build. I’m still working out how to minimize my over all gear foot print (not a fan of having tons of different armor sets for different things).

Thanks.

Yeah, that’s definitely part of the appeal of the profession for me. I tend to gear on the defensive side (speaking in general, PvE included) but feel like with the active defenses Revenant has access to, you can gear more offensively and still not be remotely squishy. I get, though, that if you want to be running up front you would need more.

I love it too, i was thory crafting a tanky build for wvw, and the active defense (few passive traits though) makes this class incredibly tough even in berserk gear.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlQQNAsemnXNmNSqJzJRBlTlshymS4PZUJYrMsklZlhNmb+RNgEewe6q/G-ThSBABU8AAsUlCKVXxMlgRcIAuSpBWKzIa/B80HAwZAgUARMGA-e

• - 50% damage taken with Vegeful Hammers/Close Quarters/Determined Resolution/Shrouding Mists
• High uptime of Protection
• Lots of condi clear and heals
• Extra 280 thoughness by upkeeping VH

It’s also worth mention that even though we do not have Vigor, Enduring Recovery plus Vigorous Persistence is better than most classes with access to it.

I dunno man that seems pretty shakey with that low armor. Also Sword and Shield are basically useless in WvW large scale. Guess it really depends on what Tier you are in and what scale you are fighting in (solo, small, havoc, zerg).

I was just messing around with the possibilities. Let’s say the planets align, you’re below 75% HP and ~10 seconds into the fight. Cast Rite of the Great Dwarf, pop VH and suddenly you have 85~100% damage reduction (not sure if it’s multiplicative or additive). In this case, armor wouldn’t make a difference.

But it’s definitely not a good build for roaming or anything that requires high mobility. Maybe defending towers and camps, you know.

I dunno man. For one fights tend to go on longer than 5 seconds. Another point is that Rite is 50 energy. If you swap to Jalis, pop Rite, you have zero energy for Hammers even at a -1 drain you’d need to give it at least a bit if you want to do any other ability.

Regardless if it’s addative or multiplicative it is impressive damage mitigation, but a very short duration. You can give it a shot, and I know popping Jalis works amazing for Backline survivability (cause you often times need short bursts which is why Jalis pairs nicely with Shiro) but just feels really sketchy on the front line.

Do you think that this build could be introduce in a GWEN comp? I know some people who don’t believe that the rev could bring something that other GWEN’s class already bring.
I’m talking on a 30+ scale fights.

Well no class in the game brings Boon Duration for their party so it’s impossible for other classes to bring that other than Herald with Facet of Nature. Boon duration makes Stability, Empower, and damage boosts just last that much longer which is pretty great. In addition to Herald, no other class brings straight up -50% damage taken (Rite of the Great Dwarf) for their party either. Permanent Fury frees up Warriors from using “FGJ” and creates huge up time for longer duration fights. Their weapon sets gives them a great tool set for front line as well coming with a block, an evade/charge, and a heal/condi remove/blast finisher but also the hammer serves as a wonderful ranged tool with a shot gun style blast that can hit up to 15 targets (3 blasts x5 targets), ability to free clear marks, and projectile absorb with 50% up time.

Part of any class is mastering it and learning when to do things. Knowing when to drop Facet of Nature and blowing One with Nature to properly maintain energy regen is key. Too early and you miss +50% duration Stability on engage. Too slow and you can run out of Energy mid fight cause you’re still at 0 energy gain. I’m still new at this and for me it’s really a learning experience coming from an Elementalist which basically has total battlefield mobility.

That said there will always be “haters” on classes in any game mode and WvW is no exception. I’m sure there will be people as well who see Revenant as something new and immediately start saying it won’t fit, doesn’t work or otherwise. After nearly 20 years of MMO gaming I can tell you now that generally speaking these people aren’t worth your time. I find it funny because often times these people are the same people who complain when they face them. It always makes me laugh when I hear a Commander go on about how useless Engineers are and then in the same night whine loudly about Magnet pull from Engineers or have zero appreciation for an Engineer clearing siege that no other class could using Mortar.

Rite is a very strong ability, but situational because of the cost. It could be an amazing lifesaver if you plan ahead.

I still wish the stun break were elsewhere.

Well Rite is the main reason we pair up Jalis with Glint. When we first switch out of Glint into Dwarf stance we have 50 Energy and at at minimum +3 energy/second but should be at +5/second because if you used Facet of Nature properly you’ll blow One with Nature right after first Stability is used. This is pretty much enough Energy regen to use all the actually useful abilities in Dwarf within seconds of switching to Dwarf which removes the situational nature due to the cost.

The main reason for this is because the rest of the Jalis abilities largely aren’t worth casting at this time. The taunt…it’s just bad. It’s clearly a PvE skill and has no use in PvP/WvW. Inspiring Reinforcements on the other hand has some merit, but at 30 energy with such a pathetic effect post nerf that really only benefits if you stay in it (pretty much impractical for WvW) it’s just not there. If they change it so the Stability is an instant AOE effect then you’re into decision territory because do you want the stack of stability with an attack or do you want a stun break with -50% damage reduction for 5 seconds…? That’s a hard choice, but one we currently don’t have to make. Hammers are a good choice but very situational with the way they turn off soon as you hit a wall and fighting/pulling people to walls/chokes is a very common strategy in WvW.

So really the Jalis design makes using Rite a very easy decision and at that point it just comes down to timing (IE: When to use it).