base revenant useless?
That is my annoyance as well. I want my new revenant to be a ‘main’ but had no plans to make it an elite. Everywhere I look there are shortcomings that are solved with Glint though: speed, other traits, etc.
Devs designed revenant with his specialization in mind. It was probably supposed to be something any build could use, but it has ended being the stance we’re forced to be in to be competitive. Base revenant should either be buffed or redesigned.
Yes, I had never even planned to go into HOT with this character, I have an elite rev if I need to do that and wanted one for central Tyria. Now I need to though in order to have a complete profession to play.
Base Revenant is terrible at the moment and I dread the thought that base Revenant will never be competitive because it is made to be super reliant on it’s elite specs.
The only thing I can think to do with it right now is work towards the elite. Which is a real shame if you never intended to play it as an elite. It is like an intentional roadblock to using the character.
“Hmm, I am going slow, I will just look up what the trait is to address that (searches) …. Glint handles it so there is none.”
Lighting Road (from Jallis) → Mace 3 → Impossible Odds fixes the slow bit.
Thanks, Impossible Odds comes from Shiro (which is good since I have that legend). My other legend is Mallyx so know nada about Lightning Road ankitten ot finding it on the wiki either. It seems Mace 3 is not needed as I am talking about traversing areas, not combat leaps.
The only thing I can think to do with it right now is work towards the elite. Which is a real shame if you never intended to play it as an elite. It is like an intentional roadblock to using the character.
They made it that way intentionally, and since Glint is an easy and powerful legend to use, not enough people complain about Core legends being useless.
almost every build i see uses herald, so what is the base revenant for?
You can say this about any class and their specializations. You use the base when you don’t have the other stuff unlocked, after that it becomes situational.
Glint has it’s drawbacks, quite big ones if you don’t enjoy running a static build. I do still think from a performance perspective, it is superior to the base legends because of how versatile it is and the permanent nature of the boons you get from facets.
Still, I quite enjoy running Mallyx and a well built- torment/burning build. I could be wrong, but I think the energy management on Glint for non-trash mobs is more difficult than other legends.
What will happen when we get a new elite spec?
We will not have Herald to glue Revenant together. And whatever comes to replace Herald will not be the same. So we gonna have the same base revenant problems until they rework it.
Pumpkin – Mag
almost every build i see uses herald, so what is the base revenant for?
Condition Mallyx + Shiro works, albeit after the Phase Traversal nerf I think that Mallyx + Glint is better (constant swiftness at minimal resource cost, good AoE burn damage, much better boon duration..).
As was said, the fact that Rev seems designed to use the Herald spec means that in the next expansion either the new legend must be amazing or both the legend, the traitline and the new weapon will remain unused due they have to compete against GLINT.
How I see core legends these days:
Ventari – selfless Martyr where you sacrifice both self sustain and personal defense in order to heal your team mates
Jallis – exploration mode – I leveled up as condi revenant and inspiring reinforcement into mace 3 was my preffered travel mode. I did not use Malyx while leveling but I used Coruption for the on critical triggers and Venom Enchantment.
Malyx – condi masochist – basicaly punishing myself by taking on loads of condis with Pain Absorb
Malyx in conjunction with Demonic Defiance from Corruption traitline – 2 button spam spec – Banish Enchantment (aka the middle finger) and aa.
Shiro – the guy who stole all the defenses and self sustain from the other legends
Rev damage is balanced around constant 10 stacks of might and 100% up time on fury. Rev mobility is balanced around having 100% up time on swiftness.
Rev sustain benefits significantly from 100% up time on reg.
You cannot play without the above, and for the above you need Glint.
Rev damage is balanced around constant 10 stacks of might and 100% up time on fury. Rev mobility is balanced around having 100% up time on swiftness.
Rev sustain benefits significantly from 100% up time on reg.
You cannot play without the above, and for the above you need Glint.
Sure, you can compensate core legends ‘uselessness’ with Glint and call it balance. But then, revenant will remain as the least flexible class in build terms, since it uses Glint for any game mode and other legends are just circumstancial.
Being locked in this useful but soooo passive skills is boring, when core legends have potential to be skill demanding and fun if they were buffed. IMO, Glint was supposed to be the glue to tie the class together, and that is what i’d like it to be.
Rev damage is balanced around constant 10 stacks of might and 100% up time on fury. Rev mobility is balanced around having 100% up time on swiftness.
Rev sustain benefits significantly from 100% up time on reg.
You cannot play without the above, and for the above you need Glint.
You can absolutely play without any of the above. Just think about it … Rev’s can’t play without 10 stacks of might? That statement doesn’t even make sense.
I know people like to ignore anything not DPS in this game and pretend it’s not relevant, but that’s a cherrypicked way of thinking. BTW, how awesome is your condition cleansing and energy regain rate with all those things you say you need on Glint? They suck, that’s what …
So there is balance here, even if people want to not acknowledge the ‘useless’ non-DPS parts of a build.
Well, base revenant has 4 legends (2 of which are underwhelming with lots of really weak skills) and 5 trait lines (2 of which are pretty bad). The 2 appropriately balanced legends and 3 appropriately powered trait lines don’t really work together.
With Herald you only have to pick one legend and two of the trait lines, which is manageable; the same will go for the next elite spec, which may also be manageable.
But having to play without an elite spec means running the only things that are good, which don’t work together, which leaves it kind of a mess.
Yeah I agree with that. I mean, it’s a departure from other professions … For Rev, you pick the legend and everything else falls in place around it. For everything else, you pick the weapon/build you want to make and choose your skills.
I think the hardest part for players to get around is that each profession offers a truly different way to play the game. We aren’t used to that because in other MMO’s, you figure “oh, I can play a healing agent” or “I want to tank so that’s probably a heavy class”, but usually the mechanics are similar. In GW2, you pick a mechanic you want to play, then choose the profession that lets you do it: “Oh I think I might managing a resource to play actively … looks like Thief or Rev” or “I just want to faceroll and be in the action … warrior is my kind of profession” or “I like to play it safe from a distance, so necro minion or ranger is what I want to do”.
People don’t give GW2 enough credit for how many different ways it lets you choose how to play the game. The drawback is that choose a way you want to play forces you into certain classes or even builds in certain classes. It’s clear from the number of threads that are “hey I want to play a condition Guardian …” or threads like this where the OP doesn’t consider anything but DPS in kitten Base Rev capabilities, so only sees one useful build to play; Glint with passive facets. GW2 just doesn’t work like that.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Rev would probably be my main if not for the overwhelming feeling that this profession isn’t anywhere near as polished as literally all the others. Still kinda feels like rev is in beta. As soon as the next elite spec is out, and if base rev doesn’t improve, the profession is gonna fall apart due to it’s current reliance on herald to make it viable let alone relevant in every game mode. That’s my opinion anyways.
Rev would probably be my main if not for the overwhelming feeling that this profession isn’t anywhere near as polished as literally all the others. Still kinda feels like rev is in beta. As soon as the next elite spec is out, and if base rev doesn’t improve, the profession is gonna fall apart due to it’s current reliance on herald to make it viable let alone relevant in every game mode. That’s my opinion anyways.
Yep i changed main because of that. Revenant is not finished already and really quite boring in PVE mode coz the utilities skills you have with legends don’t seems great in pve (some legends like Jailis or Mallyx have skills that are useless in both pvp and pve) but in pvp, due to Brill and shiro, the only two legends that are correct you can be viable class, but without that, and without elite spec (being a boon bot is terribly borring but you can’t really play without it) you are completly useless. I feel like the dev have ideas but don’t have finished them enough. Maybe a second set of utilities, designed more for pve for exemple, for each legend would give more choice and more viability to revenant? Right now the only utilities that are usable in both pvp and pve seems to be the facets of Glint.
And don’t speak about Mallyx who have been redisigned in the last minute and still have to be a condition eater when he is now a condition dealer (what’s the point of pain absorption anymore?)
Well base revenant is terribly underwelming and i dunno how they can build another elite spec without redisign properly the core class. But well, more than one year after the class release nothing has changed so i’m quite pessimist about the future of the class.
(edited by gannondorf.7628)
base revenant is good for WvW or PvP, but since glint gives perma swiftness, its best your roleplays in central tyria.
Rev damage is balanced around constant 10 stacks of might and 100% up time on fury. Rev mobility is balanced around having 100% up time on swiftness.
Rev sustain benefits significantly from 100% up time on reg.
You cannot play without the above, and for the above you need Glint.You can absolutely play without any of the above. Just think about it … Rev’s can’t play without 10 stacks of might? That statement doesn’t even make sense.
I know people like to ignore anything not DPS in this game and pretend it’s not relevant, but that’s a cherrypicked way of thinking. BTW, how awesome is your condition cleansing and energy regain rate with all those things you say you need on Glint? They suck, that’s what …
So there is balance here, even if people want to not acknowledge the ‘useless’ non-DPS parts of a build.
Hmm.. I will assume you have no idea what you are talking. Energy regain?! Have you used Glint before?! I can maintain 100% uptime on fury and 12 might will using sword skills 2 & 3 on CD. If you do not this a question of class knowledge, which you probably lack since you mentioned condition cleanse as an issued related to energy management and Rev has only 2 active skills of conditional cleanse outside Ventari, which is staff 4 and Jails heal.
As for the non-dps part, to make it simple, you must have Glint and Herald in any game mode doing anything. If you do not you lose substantial damage, mobility and survive ability. Even if damage is not your thing you need Glint. If you are playing solo PvE without Glint, good for you. If you are in any PvP form or PvE group format do not ever show up without Glint and Herald.
Lastly, Glint for Rev is the equivalent of Virtues for a Guard, shatter for Mesmer, Shroud for Necro, etc.. Hate it or love it, the class is designed around Glint. Is it a good design? Probably not, but it is reality.
(edited by otto.5684)
That’s actually what we are complaining about. How this class is completely centered around Glint, when is probably de most boring legend to play. What we are saying is that core legends should be buffed, so that “you’re losing dps” guys don’t come at us when we don’t use it.
Legend changing is this class mechanich, compared to shatters or virtues. Glint is the legend we are stuck in to be somewhat relevant, not a class mechanic and, therefore, diversity of meta builds could be archieve changing legends’ relevance.
Well even if they are lazy and don’t want to rework the class now they will have no choice with the next elite spec i guess… Coz when we see how Glint is essential for the revenant i have difficulties to imagine myself another elite spec being as essential (and it won’t be a good thing). So maybe finally a proper (and a finishing) of the class when next expansion come out? We can dream after all but i admit i’m afraid that they stand lazy and don’t do nothing but another “core” elite spec without even touching the base revenant class.
(edited by gannondorf.7628)
Rev damage is balanced around constant 10 stacks of might and 100% up time on fury. Rev mobility is balanced around having 100% up time on swiftness.
Rev sustain benefits significantly from 100% up time on reg.
You cannot play without the above, and for the above you need Glint.You can absolutely play without any of the above. Just think about it … Rev’s can’t play without 10 stacks of might? That statement doesn’t even make sense.
I know people like to ignore anything not DPS in this game and pretend it’s not relevant, but that’s a cherrypicked way of thinking. BTW, how awesome is your condition cleansing and energy regain rate with all those things you say you need on Glint? They suck, that’s what …
So there is balance here, even if people want to not acknowledge the ‘useless’ non-DPS parts of a build.
Hmm.. I will assume you have no idea what you are talking.
You can play without those things you mentioned and you’re energy management with passive facets is the worst of all the legends. You’re ability to use sword 2 and 3 while running might and fury facets doesn’t change either of those things.
None of the other stuff you mention has anything to do with what I’ve said either … I’m quite aware you can swap to other legends … that still doesn’t make what I said about using GLINT any different. Glint is not like virtues for Guardian … Glint is not the unique class mechanic for Revenant. Energy bar is. Please do not accuse me of having issues with understanding class knowledge if you’re going to exhibit similar level of understanding yourself.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
i dont think base revenent is useless because you can go condi rev, for pvp its amazing but in pve its not so good as power revenent with glint.
i dont think base revenent is useless because you can go condi rev, for pvp its amazing but in pve its not so good as power revenent with glint.
Truth be told,for any game mode, except boon thief fractals, even condi rev builds can be improved by herald. Glint is pretty much a +1 over shiro these days because Glint provides a cheaper increase in mobility than Shiro whilist maintaing access to a stun break.
Well even if they are lazy and don’t want to rework the class now they will have no choice with the next elite spec i guess… Coz when we see how Glint is essential for the revenant i have difficulties to imagine myself another elite spec being as essential (and it won’t be a good thing). So maybe finally a proper (and a finishing) of the class when next expansion come out? We can dream after all but i admit i’m afraid that they stand lazy and don’t do nothing but another “core” elite spec without even touching the base revenant class.
I hope it’s true. Another legend as essential as Glint would mean the class divided in two, since it’s base that should be core revenant is so weak in comparison.
Idk guys, as someone who tried to make core rev viable i gave up.. Recently i picked back dh and oh boy.. one has to explain me why i should ever bother to play with broken beta rev.
Reliable single target dmg (hi sword 2 n 3 n bugged skills like hammer/mace 2), reliable mobility, reliable heals with no extra conditions required to them (hi worst heal ingame ED), tons of condi cleanse, access to many stunbreaks at same time, access to stab on demand, i dont have to bother with energy system either while using my skills.
Many comes in and mentions how good is rev due to having 2 set of utility bars without reazling that other classes have them as well in other form. Mesmer got shatters, Guardians got virtues, Necro got shroud etc. We dont have advantage of having more skills in combat whatsoever, its a myth
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Yes, I am getting frustrated too. I made my first rev an elite but it is sort of a hodge-podge rather than getting the best build. Now I rebuilt another revenant but was going to do it right this time. I got to 80, bought all my gear …. then discovered I pretty much needed herald in order to do much of anything. The frustrating thing is she will mostly be mentoring for now but wanted to at least be as fast as the people I am helping if nothing else!
Ventari – selfless Martyr where you sacrifice both self sustain and personal defense in order to heal your team mates
If that’s how you see Ventari, you’ve never spammed Ventari’s Will with Blinding Roots to maintain almost perma-blindness. Ironically I have more fun tanking with Ventari than Ironhammer, whose main damage negation options are either expensive or short-lived, both in the case of RotGD. Obviously, like most things it’s even better if you combine it with a shield and Bolster Fortifications for perma protection too.
I agree that rev seems to be balanced with Herald in mind, but I think that will change when the next espec is released. They will want to provide incentives to use it, so in order to do that it will have to either provide comparable abilities or they’ll have to buff the base rev to make it viable.
Ventari – selfless Martyr where you sacrifice both self sustain and personal defense in order to heal your team mates
If that’s how you see Ventari, you’ve never spammed Ventari’s Will with Blinding Roots to maintain almost perma-blindness. Ironically I have more fun tanking with Ventari than Jallis, whose main damage negation options are either expensive or short-lived, both in the case of RotGD. Obviously, like most things it’s even better if you combine it with a shield and Bolster Fortifications for perma protection too.
I agree that rev seems to be balanced with Herald in mind, but I think that will change when the next espec is released. They will want to provide incentives to use it, so in order to do that it will have to either provide comparable abilities or they’ll have to buff the base rev to make it viable.
I did, I just didn’t like it because it didn’t feel fast enough in sPvP.
From my perspective Shiro is better than Ventari because of the built in stun-breaker and the fact that it doesn’t require an investment in traits to be somewhat viable.
(edited by Jack Skywalker.5674)
I did, I just didn’t like it because it didn’t feel fast enough in sPvP.
From my perspective Shiro is better than Ventari because of the built in stun-breaker and the fact that it doesn’t require an investment in traits to be somewhat viable.
That’s fair enough, we all have our preferences. I’m mostly PvE and a little WvW, and I’ve never set foot in SPvP so I’ll have a totally different perspective. I also do a lot of roaming in WvW and hate getting ganked, which has led me away from less survivable legends (granted, Shiro has superior mobility). I don’t want to be dodging all over the place with mobs if I can help it, I want to gather them round as close as possible and stay put until they’re dead. For that, Ventari is ideal, but I totally agree with you that Shiro (and to an extent Mallyx) can be effective without traits, while Ventari isn’t really.