Guild Wars 2

What if Next patch doesn’t buff Dwarf and Ventari? Thats what I kind of fear. I fear we will have to wait another SPVP season for a chance to get Dwarf and Ventari improved to be useful in SPvP.
same for Staff weapon. I REALLY want to see that buffed to be good in SPvP.

But waiting between seasons can be really discouraging if nothing gets changed about the weak useless trait/legends/weapons, and all we get is nerf to the already good legends/traits/weapons..

Buuuut the satisfaction when you kill someone with core rev! Feels like massacring someone with warrior! Oh w8..they share the same trash tier.

Well i fear nothing good is going to change until a while. Revenant has a lot of bugs, dwarf legend useless in pvp, corruption and redemption traitline need some changes, ventari need tweeks too. But actually revenant(sorry Herald) is one of the strongest classes and coz of this i fear nothing is going to happen other than nerfs for ower only viable legend: Glint.

gannondorf.7628:

dwarf legend useless in pvp

If that cheer you up i am roaming with shiro/jalis now. Tried to play the intended way of Jalis so i casted rite, facetanked ua from another rev.. and well.. never again. That 50% reduction is pathetic (got 2650 armor). If they wont make it like endure pain then idk. 0 stab, useless expensive stunbreak, poor dmg mitigation – Jalis way of tanking stuff.

The only “tanky” feeling im getting is when i am surrounded by a horde of mobs and press magic button called vengeful hammers..thats where i feel immortal assuming they wont deactive themself 1sec later due to terrain ahahah

Burtnik.5218:

gannondorf.7628:

dwarf legend useless in pvp

If that cheer you up i am roaming with shiro/jalis now. Tried to play the intended way of Jalis so i casted rite, facetanked ua from another rev.. and well.. never again. That 50% reduction is pathetic (got 2650 armor). If they wont make it like endure pain then idk. 0 stab, useless expensive stunbreak, poor dmg mitigation – Jalis way of tanking stuff.

The only “tanky” feeling im getting is when i am surrounded by a horde of mobs and press magic button called vengeful hammers..thats where i feel immortal assuming they wont deactive themself 1sec later due to terrain ahahah

Yes precisly. Count the 1 sec cast for the spell too, the retribution traitline with some traits like eye for eye with 45 sec of cooldown etc… And you have a Jailis that is far away from tanking. It just work enough in pve coz of vengefull hammers without speaking of the terrain bug. I can understand that revenant may be hard to balance. After all every legend is designed to have a role. But actually the core revenant is just… well like warrior one. We have the head out of the water only coz of Glint and Shield. Redemption traitline is not hybrid enough like other traitlines (only focused on healing) and Ventari don’t really do well his job. Mallyx seems to work according to how it was picking by “pro players” but i have always find him a little poor because of corruption traitline primarly. Shiro is well, okay. And Glint is good, but she is the only good legend on revenant.

Mallyx is getting carried by 3 traitlines. Take out herald and hes potato. Meanwhile Shiro and Glint (if you didnt had to trait for it) work with anything really. Retribution provides far more tankiness than whole kit of Jalis which is a complete joke. The only thing i can consider semi decent on Jalis is taunt, but that also can be strafed too easily, deflected/reflected or body blocked. Not fun at all.

Hammers in pvp are also problematic not only due to terrain issues, but also proc retal as they proc it 2x/sec. They do more harm than good. 3 beta weeks wasted.

I’ve got a feeling like Herald is a main class and Revenant is a elite specialization.

Dwarf needs a reduction in energy cost in utilities, im thinking like 15 energy on both stability path and taunt but add like a 5 sec cooldown to prevent spam.

Ventari abilities need reduction in energy and improved healing coefficients on traits and healing skills.

Hunter.4783:

Dwarf needs a reduction in energy cost in utilities, im thinking like 15 energy on both stability path and taunt but add like a 5 sec cooldown to prevent spam.

Ventari abilities need reduction in energy and improved healing coefficients on traits and healing skills.

Huum… this is don’t going to change something. The stability on Jalis legend need to be faster and longer, ROTGD instant and more powerful. The problem aren’t the cost of the utilites but the utilities themselves that are weak and innapropriate (except vengefull hammers but it’s the most bugged skill i have ever see).

Ventari’s utilities, in other hands, could beneficiate of a cost reduction, but the redemption traitline need to be change too. It’s too heavily focused on healing, Ventari legend and more healing to others. While he is a healing legend redemption don’t give benefits that others legends give( being usefull outside of the legend herself, not autosurvivability…)

Corruption traitline need to be cleaned. There is still too much talents which are odd coz of the last minute change to condition dealer. Like Burtnik has said, Mallyx is carry heavily by Glint, who is actually the main core of the revenant.

Hammer 2 needs to be nerfed in the face and brought in line with other backline classes like ele meteor shower, Necro wells and such.

Staff, Ventari, Jalis all need to be buffed. I agree on the stability for Jalis is way too slow. This was a constant complaint however during betas and they did increase the animation speed slightly. It still seems way too slow to me.

Salvation seems a little weak, this may be because it hinges off Ventari and if the legend was buffed it would seem a lot more impactful.

Glint overall is just too good to pass up, it’s rare i see a pure rev in WvW. But this is true of all the elite speclines.

I literally never see Revenants that aren’t heralds. As class mechanic trait line, Invocation doesn’t make the cut. Look at Arcana and Soul Reaping. Those are what good class mechanic trait lines look like. Retribution does a nice job but has a few bad traits. Jalis fails at being defensive. Ventari fails at being suppotive. Salvation doesn’t bring a lot to the table without Ventari, and Ventari is bad so… Salvation is not good enough right now.

Aside from the Adept tier, Herald is a fairly good traitline. Glint, Shiro, and Mallyx are all in fairly good condtition. Devastation and Corruption are also in good shape.

It’s quite clear to me which traitlines need work and which legends need work.

I have this fear too. The Revenant that I made as soon as HoT was released has been shelved since the second week of the expansion, which is when I realized how much work and development the class needs. The next balance patch would ideally be when we see some improvement on GW2’s newest class, but i’ve admittedly lost a little faith. Here’s hoping.

Today we should get a preview of upcoming changes as far i know on stream. Im prepared for nerfs and 0 buffs to core rev.

To be honest, the one thing I’d really like to see for Jalis is for Inspiring Reinforcement to grant the first stack of stability to the revenant as soon as the casting time is completed, rather than the extended delay as the road forms and has its first pulse. I recognise that the original form of the road was too much, but currently it has too long a delay before it sets in to be used reactively (if you suspect you’re about to be hit by a stun, it’ll most likely land before you get the stability – I’ve had PvE opponents pull off getting off the stun in before the stability stack lands, let alone PvP players) and too short a duration and too small an area to be used proactively. PvE-wise it’s mostly a ‘better than nothing’ tool, and in PvP it’s useful for soaking the stomp-prevention interrupt of a downed opponent and not much more.

There may be more needed than that, but I think Jalis as a whole is underrated – speeding up Inspiring Reinforcement would be a good start without risking overshooting.

Ventari and Mallyx are a bit more complex, of course.

Knighthonor.4061:

What if Next patch doesn’t buff Dwarf and Ventari? Thats what I kind of fear. I fear we will have to wait another SPVP season for a chance to get Dwarf and Ventari improved to be useful in SPvP.
same for Staff weapon. I REALLY want to see that buffed to be good in SPvP.

But waiting between seasons can be really discouraging if nothing gets changed about the weak useless trait/legends/weapons, and all we get is nerf to the already good legends/traits/weapons..

Thing is, what does work will get nerfed to the level of dwarf and ventari, thats how anet ‘balances’

draxynnic.3719:

To be honest, the one thing I’d really like to see for Jalis is for Inspiring Reinforcement to grant the first stack of stability to the revenant as soon as the casting time is completed.

Yes i dont know how many times i’ve been knocked off the road and then immobilised or knocked down or stunned before ive got that first pulse of stability. It’s just far too slow.

Tbh back when jalis road pulses 5 or 6 sec stab (not sure) with 5 cd everyone complained how useless that road feels. Then a “love for Jalis” came in that did more harm than good.

Road was butchered to 10cd and 1 sec stab, making it even more useless.

Hammers damage was butchered for no reason at all but it came with little buff to % reduction and healing that doesnt even matter. Now however we have a problem – it deals junk damage but it triggers retal – if you want to suicide its the best way to go. Close to 600dmg/sec taken just from hammers alone triggering retal on single target.

Taunt – still feels it lack something and the fact it can be reflected in your face is just sad. Meanwhile https://youtu.be/xwWiU9H5L8A?t=2m42s thats how it should work imo. Or at least it could pulse taunt/slow for the duration of chain with option to shadowstep.

Rite – had cast decrease but it still a junk skill. 50% reduction for 5 sec at cost of 50 energy and over 1 sec casttime..kay. In pvp however its not a lot. 17% better than protection, 10% in case of tempest that can keep perma prot while healing like mad. From my experience im usually getting bursted down even in 1v1 situation under rite < try facetank stuff like ua or dh traps, hf.

Jalis heal – 1 sec casttime, first heal and removes condi after.. dem 3k heals under poison for just 30cd. I still dont understand why it doesnt have a block like shelter.

Burtnik.5218:

Tbh back when jalis road pulses 5 or 6 sec stab (not sure) with 5 cd everyone complained how useless that road feels. Then a “love for Jalis” came in that did more harm than good.

Road was butchered to 10cd and 1 sec stab, making it even more useless.

Most of the people saying the old road was useless were talking from the perspective of WvW, where you need more mobile forms of stability. It was awesome for allowing a group to basically ignore crowd control from champions and bosses in PvE, though, and in structured PvP, it was awesome.

Hammers damage was butchered for no reason at all but it came with little buff to % reduction and healing that doesnt even matter. Now however we have a problem – it deals junk damage but it triggers retal – if you want to suicide its the best way to go. Close to 600dmg/sec taken just from hammers alone triggering retal on single target.

I didn’t like it at first, but the combination of damage reduction and healing can make it quite useful for surviving in teamfights, especially if your opponents are using pets/minions/illusions/etc that you can leech health from.

It can be painful if there’s a lot of retaliation around, but the game is supposed to have counters.

Taunt – still feels it lack something and the fact it can be reflected in your face is just sad. Meanwhile https://youtu.be/xwWiU9H5L8A?t=2m42s thats how it should work imo. Or at least it could pulse taunt/slow for the duration of chain with option to shadowstep.

I don’t really use it much – could work.

Rite – had cast decrease but it still a junk skill. 50% reduction for 5 sec at cost of 50 energy and over 1 sec casttime..kay. In pvp however its not a lot. 17% better than protection, 10% in case of tempest that can keep perma prot while healing like mad. From my experience im usually getting bursted down even in 1v1 situation under rite < try facetank stuff like ua or dh traps, hf.

It gets useful if you have the trait that causes it to also reduce condition damage (possibly that could be made baseline). More generally, it’s (again) more useful for teamfights than a 1v1 situation. Jalis is not intended to be the legend for winning 1v1s.

Jalis heal – 1 sec casttime, first heal and removes condi after.. dem 3k heals under poison for just 30cd. I still dont understand why it doesnt have a block like shelter.

Considering that it’s one of the few condition control skills revenants have, I think it fits. Swapping the order of the condition removal and the heal would be worthwhile for the poison thing, though.

The concept that two of our elites and traits are meant for PvE alone is a bit sad. It really would be nice to make ventari and jalis useful in pvp.

• Rite of the Great Dwarf (5s): Gain damage reduction. You are still susceptible to conditions and control effects.*

Jalis has one of the worst elites in the game for pvp. iT It sucks up all the energy and only last 5 seconds. Lets not forget Revenants soak up conditions like a sponge, and jalis does nothing to stop the damage output from condi’s.

Stone in Retribution is even better, while you won’t get the break stun, it at least reduces condition damage & doesn’t affect your energy. (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Versed_in_Stone)

draxynnic.3719:

Most of the people saying the old road was useless were talking from the perspective of WvW, where you need more mobile forms of stability. It was awesome for allowing a group to basically ignore crowd control from champions and bosses in PvE, though, and in structured PvP, it was awesome.

Complains were also coming from spvp and pve. In HoT the road doesnt work well at all as often youre forced to move out..naturally if you want to stay alive ofc. Its even worse in pvp.

draxynnic.3719:

I didn’t like it at first, but the combination of damage reduction and healing can make it quite useful for surviving in teamfights, especially if your opponents are using pets/minions/illusions/etc that you can leech health from. It can be painful if there’s a lot of retaliation around, but the game is supposed to have counters.

Tbh that damage reduction is just pathetic. It could be fine pre hot i guess but now its too weak. Im not sure what do you mean by counters tho..inst point of this skill to provide you defense now rather than pressure? What defensive skill is it when it may be a reason of actually losing the fight in the first place. Do you also getting punished for using other defensive skills in game? I believe nope.

Lets also not forget that the nerf completely broke synergy between this skill and hammer. Hammer has it own issues but main part of the reason why it sux is that damage nerf.

Look at dh – lb without traps is not scary at all, neither rev hammer without prenerfed vengeful hammers. Vengeful hammers used to force your opponent to move away from you, now however youre pretty much forced to weapon swap as hammer has no kiting whatsoever on it own. Once someone close the gap (not hard to do) your weapon becomes useless as there are no tools to support hammer.

draxynnic.3719:

It gets useful if you have the trait that causes it to also reduce condition damage (possibly that could be made baseline). More generally, it’s (again) more useful for teamfights than a 1v1 situation. Jalis is not intended to be the legend for winning 1v1s.

Take Jalis for Rite that cost pretty much all my energy just for 5sec slighty stronger -% dmg than protection or Glint that spread nearly perma protection while offering me much higher survival+superior support to allies? Even with the trait rite is not really helpful. Damage reduction is pathetic for the cast time+energy it cost and you still gonna melt under rite in the end so..what the kitten point?

You know why you take retribution? Cus stab on dodge and some -dmg modifiers. You know why rite trait is also taken? Bc theres nothing else in gm, its full of crap just like rite. In adept you always goes for -10% from ranged attacks as reduced dmg from taunted foes is a trash useless trait. In master you have a choice between taunt on cc with protection dwarf stance that makes life much easier for power builds as weakness was countering power rev too much. In gm.. theres nothing really.

Im not sure where you got that “not intended for 1v1” part tho as Glint is more support oriented actually while Jalis..guess it – has single target taunt. Thing is everything on his kit is useless with no synergy. As it stands now Jalis may work in pve only due to healing from hammers, but other than that hes totally useless. You know something is wrong when dps legend can tank much better than the intended “tank”. Jalis was supposed to be that facetank stance, but if you dare to facetank anything, you will end up on spawn quite fast.

draxynnic.3719:

Considering that it’s one of the few condition control skills revenants have, I think it fits. Swapping the order of the condition removal and the heal would be worthwhile for the poison thing, though.

Not sure if you agree about the block part or not. I can throw 2 cents tho.. casting Jalis heal is not rewarding at all while Glint can get me from 1k hp to full if timed right. If Jalis is supposed to be that tank legend then either it need a heal skill swap with Glint or gain a block so actually you can avoid potential burst and be rewarded for smart usage just like with glint heal or crystal hibernation.

You have no idea how often i was like “if i had Glint heal i would be full again instead of being a dead scrub on the floor like a total noob”

td;dr

Jalis has no sustain. Heals like crap, has no tools to deal with situations when hes under pressure and can be stunlocked 100-0 just like Mallyx due to 0 realistic stunbreaks. 100% tank legend confirmed, i dont have anything else to say.

Burtnik.5218:

Complains were also coming from spvp and pve. In HoT the road doesnt work well at all as often youre forced to move out..naturally if you want to stay alive ofc. Its even worse in pvp.

While some people may have been complaining, plenty of people were demonstrating that it was in fact effective. In PvE, sure, you often want to move, but a lot of the enemy hylek in HoT operate by “hard CC, then maul you with a slow telegraphed attack which you can’t dodge if you’re stunned”. Stability is a lifesaver in such circumstances if you’re paying attention, and the old version of the road allowed for permanent stability.

Similarly, people were demonstrating its effectiveness in sPvP. The old road only needed one pulse to give you six seconds of stability, on a 5-second recharge. You didn’t have to stay on it to get good CC protection. Staying on it just meant you could get multiple stacks.

Currently, of course, it’s overnerfed, but that’s not in dispute here. It’s still useful, but it takes niche situations.

Tbh that damage reduction is just pathetic. It could be fine pre hot i guess but now its too weak. Im not sure what do you mean by counters tho..inst point of this skill to provide you defense now rather than pressure? What defensive skill is it when it may be a reason of actually losing the fight in the first place. Do you also getting punished for using other defensive skills in game? I believe nope.

Lets also not forget that the nerf completely broke synergy between this skill and hammer. Hammer has it own issues but main part of the reason why it sux is that damage nerf.

Look at dh – lb without traps is not scary at all, neither rev hammer without prenerfed vengeful hammers. Vengeful hammers used to force your opponent to move away from you, now however youre pretty much forced to weapon swap as hammer has no kiting whatsoever on it own. Once someone close the gap (not hard to do) your weapon becomes useless as there are no tools to support hammer.

Most defensive skills punish you in some way. At the basic level, most have a cooldown involved, so there’s the basic ‘not having it later when you might need it more’. Several prevent you from acting, so you’re no longer contributing to the team and aren’t able to get a heal off. Some immobilise you as well, so the enemy can just wait until it wears off and then spike you. It’s good play that allows these skills to be more beneficial than otherwise.

The hammers can be kept up for long periods and deactivated and reactivated when needed. Instead of preventing you from contributing to the team, they assist in dealing additional damage, while the healing when they strike helps keep you alive. In a 1v1, granted, this can be quite negligible. When you’re surrounded in melee (such as when you’re contesting point, particularly if there’s a MM necromancer around) they can actually top you up quite well while clearing out chaff so the rest of the team doesn’t have to deal with it. (Also, if you’re running herald, you can get extra toughness out of the upkeep. If you’re running Devastation, the hammers practically guarantee Assassin’s Annihilation procs.) Yes, Retaliation is a weakness – however, in my observation, it’s relatively uncommon in what I’ve been seeing in the current meta (mesmers lost a lot of retaliation last year, and with a lot of guardians going DH, they’re less likely to have a lot of retaliation beyond virtue activations).

When it comes to working with the hammer… revenants have weaponswaps now. If you’re stuck at close range, use something else, and it’s not like the hammer is an ineffective weapon. (In fact, for all the hammer is supposed to be thematically linked to Jalis, if the hammer did need to be paired with a melee tank legend like Jalis to be effective, that would be a bigger problem.)

Vengeful Hammers never had the deterrent effect that you imagine. In the days before rev weaponswaps, it offered some compensation for hammer revs that were stuck in melee for the loss of CoR damage… but it was still mainly used by melee builds. Besides, if it did enough damage to make another melee character decide that it’s better to go ranged against an opponent that does extra damage at greater range and can have 50% uptime with a projectile blocking shield that’s also a dark field that makes their projectiles have lifestealing… than that’s enough damage to be absolutely horribly broken on a mobile melee set like sword/axe.

Take Jalis for Rite that cost pretty much all my energy just for 5sec slighty stronger -% dmg than protection or Glint that spread nearly perma protection while offering me much higher survival+superior support to allies? Even with the trait rite is not really helpful. Damage reduction is pathetic for the cast time+energy it cost and you still gonna melt under rite in the end so..what the kitten point?

And sometimes, for one reason or another, Facet of Chaos is not available. Facet of Chaos is great for sustained protection, but doesn’t help against conditions, nor does it have the same protective effect against a spike as a well-timed Rite.

Don’t forget, also, that Rite is also a stun break. It has its problems as a stunbreak, granted, but considering that a stun is usually followed by a spike attempt on you or an ally, having the stunbreak followed by 50% damage reduction for you and nearby allies can actually be quite effective if used right. (If anything, one thing that would help is having Rite be covered by stability when it activates, to ensure that it triggers. Possibly the best fix would be to have a trait that grants a second or two of stability when using Dwarf skills, similar to Mallyx’s resistance trait.) It’s more expensive than Shiro’s, but the backroll can also have its downsides.

As for not being designed for 1v1 – partly experience, and partly by considering the skills effects. Inspiring Reinforcement and Rite of the Great Dwarf are both team support (the latter more than the former in PvP, but I’ve dropped the road to support an ally’s stomp a few times). Vengeful Hammers is at its most effective when you have multiple targets around you, which generally isn’t the case for a 1v1. The taunt may be single-target, but there are multiple ways in which a control effect that pulls a target in a particular direction can be useful in a teamfight, while in a 1v1, your target might not even notice because they were planning to close and autoattack you anyway.

I’d agree that Glint provides more options for the teamfight – but there are some things she doesn’t offer, and there are times when the things she does offer aren’t available. Having both means that when you switch out of Glint you still have more team support to offer.

draxynnic.3719:

Not sure if you agree about the block part or not. I can throw 2 cents tho.. casting Jalis heal is not rewarding at all while Glint can get me from 1k hp to full if timed right. If Jalis is supposed to be that tank legend then either it need a heal skill swap with Glint or gain a block so actually you can avoid potential burst and be rewarded for smart usage just like with glint heal or crystal hibernation.

You have no idea how often i was like “if i had Glint heal i would be full again instead of being a dead scrub on the floor like a total noob”

I don’t agree with the block. Maybe a little more healing, but the main thing would be swapping the condi remove and the heal.

Glint’s heal is certainly more effective – if you can guarantee that the damage will still be incoming. sPvP players are getting more aware of recognising when Facet of Light has been triggered and waiting it out. Jalis’ heal can also be used to clear off both debilitating and damaging conditions, and provides a reliable heal in circumstances where getting the full effect of Infuse Light or Enchanted Daggers isn’t likely.

Tl;dr: It isn’t as bad as you claim. It’s viable (I personally find I do better with Jalis/Glint than Shiro/Glint, although it does require playing in a different way), albeit with a few flaws. However, I think we’re more likely to get those flaws polished out if we focus on the most important rather than presenting a shopping list which exaggerates the problems and risks ‘boy who cried wolf’ syndrome.

If you claim for Jalis to be as “good” as he is then he would be meta over Shiro or Glint. Facts are against you tho. I actually start to wonder if you play on eu cus i was teamed once with jalis/glint rev and he was doing quite well.. in fact i have never seen a rev feeding enemy team that good.

And with enh bulwalk you can still get perma stab from road btw but noone use Jalis for a good reason. Rite doesnt prevent any spike on it own btw, its worthless without protection

Still no underwater abilities for Glint either I take it? And why the hell do my facets keep turning themselves off after I went down and keep deactivating themselves one second after I reactivated them.

Only workaround I have is switching aspects but it is very annoying.

Yeah, underwater rev is still messed up, even though Glint would be pretty simple to adjust for underwater (just turn the dragon’s breath into a column attack centered on the target – there are plenty of existing underwater skills with that behaviour)

Burtnik.5218:

If you claim for Jalis to be as “good” as he is then he would be meta over Shiro or Glint. Facts are against you tho. I actually start to wonder if you play on eu cus i was teamed once with jalis/glint rev and he was doing quite well.. in fact i have never seen a rev feeding enemy team that good.

And with enh bulwalk you can still get perma stab from road btw but noone use Jalis for a good reason. Rite doesnt prevent any spike on it own btw, its worthless without protection

I play on NA, and if you’d run into my revenant you would know.

You’ll note, also, that my term was ‘viable’. I find I do better with Jalis than Shiro, but I also do better with guardian than thief – playstyle (and, possibly, latency, since I’m actually in Australia, and mobility-based builds tend to be very latency-sensitive) plays a role. In the current meta, I expect an expert Shiro/Glint player with a direct connection to the server will do better than an expert Jalis/Glint player with the same direct connection, but the difference is not so large as you claim.

Shiro/Glint is more versatile, but it does have weaknesses. It’s the revenant setup with the least options against damaging conditions (you can use Infuse Light or you can shift legends, and if you take Retribution instead of Invocation, you can’t even do that. If you use staff as your swap you have a condition clear there, but you likely have no ranged option). Jade Winds can be awesome if you pull it off, but it has a big tell – I’ve rarely seen it used (let alone used well) in PvP since a few weeks after release. Riposting Shadows is an effective stunbreak (and great for escapes in general), but if you want to get back to where you were and you don’t have an axe offhand (most Shiro/Glints I’ve seen use shield offhands because they need the defences – a Jalis/Glint rev can better afford to have a more offensive offhand) then you’re looking at Phase Traversal, and by the time you’ve used both, you’ve spent the energy of a RotGD without giving yourself and your allies 50% damage reduction.

Generally, Shiro/Glint is used with the legends fulfilling different roles, with Shiro being used for mobility, escape, or finishing someone off. Jalis/Glint allows you to switch legend and stay in the thick of the fighting and contesting points more.

50% damage reduction from both direct sources and conditions is pretty good at reducing the effect of a spike. It’s not as good as blocking it entirely, but there are few if any reliable ways of blocking a spike on an ally entirely, and better than protection’s 33% against direct damage and zilch versus conditions. Of course, having protection on top of RotGD is even better, but 50% damage reduction on all sources for five seconds on you and nearby allies can make a big difference.

Facet of Chaos is obviously better in a longer fight, but that can only be kept up indefinitely if all you do is auto-attack, and if for whatever reason you need to switch, RotGD and the hammers (choose as appropriate for the circumstances) can cover in the meantime.

Can it do with some improvement? Yes. But I think you overstate the need. And I’d rather focus on the most glaring issue – which I think is the overnerfing of Inspiring Reinforcement – get that fixed, and see where things are after that.

Wanna know why Shiro is superior to Jalis? I can immobilize Jalis/Glint all day long rendering you completely useless aka sitting duck. I can completely negate damage with riposting shadows that provides me endurance for another dodge for even more stab.

50% reduction doesnt make up for the ability to negate damage completely. While i evade over necro marks like a pro, you facetank it and in the long run take far more damage than me let it be from condi or power. Perma -800chill/sec is not a joke, and your only cleanse coming from Jalis heal and 50% reductiom from unreliable rite which can be interrupted and will be intterupted that you can cast only once every 15sec.

So in the end..what you gain from running Jalis over Shiro except reliable healing skill? Stunbreaks? Nope
Reliable stab? Nope
100% Damage negation? Nope
Mobility? Nope
Extremely weak to immobilize, cripple, chill? Yes
Extremely weak to condi (more than Shiro if you know how to play)? Yes
Extremely easy to focus down? Yes
Extremely easy to cc 100-0? Yes.

Please tell me more.

Immobilise is a problem – but every build has its weaknesses, and you can teleport through an immobilise (the distinction is that if it doesn’t remove it, you’re still immobilised afterwards, which you aren’t with skills like Riposting Shadows). Meanwhile, Shiro brings nothing for conditions apart from immobilise, chill or cripple. Jalis brings condition clear on heal, 50% resistance through Rite of the Great Dwarf (interruptable, but more reliable than you seem to think) and 20% resistance through Vengeful Hammers.

Negating damage entirely is nice, but the revenant has means apart from Phase Traversal to cross marks without eating them (PT has the shortest recharge but also costs the most energy). More generally, you only have so many evade frames even with Shiro, and you’ll tend to melt when they’ve been used up – Jalis has more staying power under constant pressure (I think you underestimate how much of a difference Vengeful Hammers can make under pressure). Additionally, while you’re busy evading, you’re not doing damage or supporting your team.

So, to go through your list:
Stunbreaks? About the same as Shiro/Glint has. Riposting Shadows is cheaper, so in principle you can have more. On the other hand, RS has less of an effect apart from the stunbreak.
Reliable stab? Well, if you’ll read up, that’s precisely the buff I’m prioritising.
100% Damage negation? Doesn’t exist, except for short periods, and revenants have other sources of invulnerable frames.
Mobility? Less than Shiro, granted, but sufficient.
Extremely weak to immobilise, cripple, chill? You’re cherrypicking there, and no less a weakness than any other build that isn’t packing a lot of condi clear.
Extremely weak to other condi? Less so than Shiro, in my experience.
Extremely easy to focus down? Not in my experience, when played well.
Extremely easy to cc 100-0? Also not in my experience, when played well.

And some things you’ve missed:
Ability to support your team through stability application: Not as good as I think it should be, but it’s there. (To be fair, Shiro does have quickness stomps and resses, which is often where this is most important… but only until the 26th.)
Ability to support your team through damage reduction when Facet of Chaos is unavailable? Check.
Ability to AoE your surrounding area? Not as strong as it used to be, but those hammers do add up, as well as keeping you alive.

With all this, I’m not saying that Jalis couldn’t use a buff. I think he could. But I don’t think the problem is as large as you claim, and I think claiming too large could result in getting nothing when more focused requests will at least get something.

Ultimately, you know why nerfs tend to be more common than buffs? Part of it is that, let’s face it, HoT powercreeped to an extent it’s understating the case to call it ‘creep’. That was always going to need to be toned down if ArenaNet wanted to maintain any pretense of core builds still being viable.

The other side of it is that the people QQing for nerfs are specific about what they want nerfed – they don’t ask for everything about the profession they don’t like to be cut down. And usually, they get it. Look at the current changes – people cried for nerfs to sword autoattacks, to CoR, to UA, and to Infuse Light, and they’re getting all of those, while the arguably more powerful Mallyx condition build hasn’t been touched because nothing was singled out the way those four were.

A similar principle applies. When you’re asking to buff everything from Shiro’s heal to Jalis’ entire lineup, it comes across as unfocused at best and whining at worst. I’d rather pick the most glaring issues, focus on them, and see what happens after they’ve been dealt with.

Which is also, incidentally, a better way of balancing in general. Make a small change and see what the result is before moving on, rather than sweeping changes that risk overshooting the mark.

I’d like to point out that Jalis’ heal cleanses after the heal, therefore Poison completely wrecks you.
This doesn’t help very much in the end.

If you’re fighting a Condition class with Jalis, you’re still going to die incredibly fast.
RotGD can stall for a moment, but due to how Conditions work and how they “stick”, it’s a temporary “solution”. Jalis simply doesn’t have the sustain to tank through conditions.

Maybe he shouldn’t tank Conditions though. He might be able to handle the supplementary ones, right? Well, unfortunately it only deals with damaging conditions, but I guess it sorta helps? Problem is when we get these classes with high amounts of Cripple, Chill, Immobilize, etc. who snare you and then beat you to a pulp.
Jalis has no solution to this except to use RotGD/Vengeful Hammers and hope he doesn’t die while being bombarded by soft CC.

That’s okay, though, maybe he can stay in the fight against Power builds. Well, any CC-heavy build is going to wreck you unless you have Retribution + Herald due to RotGD being so costly and Inspiring Reinforcements being so slow (and weak).
Can he tank though? Actually, if you any two of Vengeful Hammers, RotGD, or Protection, then you can actually get quite a nice amount of reduction. Problem is RotGD is too costly/low duration and Jalis/Retribution doesn’t actually have a lot of Protection while Vengeful Hammers are too easily intercepted.

So, big issues:

- Bad sustain
- Costly and easily intercepted Stun Breaker
- Really bad control skill (it’s alright for Break bars in PvE, but you’d rather DPS with hammers)
- Vengeful Hammers break too easily (especially bad as more classes get more projectile hate)
- Heal is VERY susceptible to Poison
- No mobility
- No real answers to deadly situations (Don’t have 50 Energy or Enhanced Bulwark? Get CC-chained to death)
- And finally, Jalis is way too focused on tanking Power damage, meaning that he’s complete TRASH when anyone with a specific build type shows up

Possible Changes:

- Lower cost/Increase Effectiveness of RotGD
- Makes Vengeful Hammers an “aura” instead of projectiles
- Make Soothing Stone cleanse BEFORE healing like almost every other Heal in the game
- Make Inspiring Reinforcements faster and either pulse more Stability or also pulse Protection (or both); alternatively, also make it a Stun Breaker.
- Make Forced Engagement an actual Control skill; making it cheaper would help since it already has kitten cooldown
- Give Jalis some better condition management; he can’t possibly tank players by being bombarded by soft CC and then dying slowly. You can potentially help by making RotGD lower the duration of conditions instead of just the damage.
I know Ventari or Mallyx should be the ones dealing with Conditions, but Ventari is being designed as a “healer” that can’t tank at all and has his own list of issues and Mallyx was kinda designed as the aggressive and selfish Condition dealer.

Okay, let’s prioritise these:

High priority:

- Make Soothing Stone cleanse BEFORE healing like almost every other Heal in the game
- Make Inspiring Reinforcements faster and either pulse more Stability or also pulse Protection (or both); alternatively, also make it a Stun Breaker.

Both of these I’ve already agreed with.

In the case of Inspiring Reinforcement, what would you think about replacing one of the less useful Retribution traits like Improved Aggression with a trait that grants a short stability (1 or 2 seconds) on activating dwarf skills? Might be too strong when combined with Enhanced Bulwark, but that’s spending two traits in different specialisations and Jalis should be able to be stable. It would prevent both interruption of RotGD and being able to CC a revenant on a road before it forms.

Mid priority:

- Makes Vengeful Hammers no longer auto-cancel
- Make Forced Engagement an actual Control skill; making it cheaper would help since it already has kitten cooldown

I’ve adjusted Vengeful Hammers to address the real problem as I see it. It’s mostly a QoL change unless you’re sitting in a projectile destruction area, since you can restart it fairly quickly. Converting it into an aura is the easy option, the other could be making the hammers automatically respawn if destroyed (the latter would mean it still has counterplay through projectile destruction, but you’d never lose the 20% damage and condition reduction).

It’s worth noting that making it an aura would probably break the current synergy it has with Assassin’s Annihilation. YMMV on how important that is.

Forced Engagement I’d admit I don’t tend to use much – but that may be telling as it is, hence putting it here. The obvious way to make it an “actual control skill”, if I interpret correctly, would be to note that it has the visual effect of connecting a chain like Spear of Justice – it could be given the same follow-up option of consuming the effect to pull the target.

Low priority:

- Lower cost/Increase Effectiveness of RotGD
- Give Jalis some better condition management; he can’t possibly tank players by being bombarded by soft CC and then dying slowly. You can potentially help by making RotGD lower the duration of conditions instead of just the damage.

These I certainly wouldn’t complain about – your suggestions, on the whole, are a lot more measured than Burtnik’s were. Thematically, I like the idea of RotGD lowering condition duration, particularly nondamaging conditions.

However, I’m inclined to push the higher-priority changes and see what happens before pushing these.

Regarding condition management: I agree that Jalis should be one of the better legends at condition management, however I’m keeping in mind that it appears to be a design decision that revenants are weak to conditions in general – ergo, focusing on other things. To me, it feels like the most important thing that Jalis brings to the revenant overall is stability, which is why I’m focusing there.

I honestly think RotGD would be massively improved if it were changed to an upkeep skill (similar to Impossible Odds) and pulsed 2 sec Resistance every 5 seconds or something similar.

You can still stack Condi/CC against someone using it, but it won’t completely destroy the tankiness the skill is supposed to provide entirely.