Guild Wars 2

this needs to happen because it cripples the gameplay. either remove the cost or remove the cooldown.

What’s the difference between the way this is set up and a thief’s initiative is set up? Honestly asking here bc I didn’t personally see any problem with it

Moonlit.6421:

What’s the difference between the way this is set up and a thief’s initiative is set up? Honestly asking here bc I didn’t personally see any problem with it

Thief dont have upkeep skills.

and Thief dont start at half.

Thief Utilities dont cost initiatives.

Thief Heal dont cost initiatives.

Thief Elite dont cost initiatives.

thats how its different.

Moonlit.6421:

What’s the difference between the way this is set up and a thief’s initiative is set up? Honestly asking here bc I didn’t personally see any problem with it

1. thief initiative skills do not generally have a cd.
2. Thief’s utility skills do not run on the same initiative system.

Moonlit.6421:

What’s the difference between the way this is set up and a thief’s initiative is set up? Honestly asking here bc I didn’t personally see any problem with it

While I’m not sure that removing the cost from weapon skills is necessarily the answer, it’s “different” because this affects both utility and weapon skills while initiative only affects weapon skills. The energy cost of some utility skills is quite high (particularly in relation to what the skills actually do) and it’s easy to burn through your reserves, especially on Jalis, making both your weapon and your current utility set practically useless.

I actually like it. It’s not a crippling flaw like you make out, and its actually a very simple mechanic to manage.

Why do you want to suck some of the uniqueness out of the new class?

This, what the title says. It’s a pain enough to deal with no weapon swap and only locked utility swap, but making revs weigh each weapon skill they use against their utilities is ridiculous. There is way too much already going on with all these ‘thematic’ abilities (ex:Tablet). I don’t have enough eyes to watch everything you have to watch in pvp plus my weapon energy costs.

Maimakterion.5940:

I actually like it. It’s not a crippling flaw like you make out, and its actually a very simple mechanic to manage.

Why do you want to suck some of the uniqueness out of the new class?

The current system makes it so you are disincentivized from using your utilities (because that can lock you out from your weapon skills). That alone might be an interesting design decision, but not when coupled with no weapon swap.
Basically, if you create a design where your weapon swap is exchanged for utility swap system, with utilities supposedly having increased impact on your build, then introducing mechanics that makes players not want to use those utilities is not a good idea.

With my rather limited testing, managing energy didn’t seem at all difficult.

Starting at 50 energy on engagement sucks though, because it means certain skills are locked off for the start of the encounter in our already limited skill selection and the worst of it is that the opponent (assuming human) will know exactly what those skills we don’t have access to immediately will be most of the time if not all of the time.

I get that the skills that can not be used immediately can be more powerful this way and it makes moving from engagement to engagement, so that your energy doesn’t reset, more advantageous in some cases.

If anything because two of the three legends seems to pair with two-handers and we only had one main hand and off-hand for this test the mixing and matching of one-handers based on both of your equipped legends, rather than exclusively choosing a weapon based on the primary legend of your choice that has the most synergies, was something I was missing a whole lot.

To be honest based on this test alone, I’d prefer if Revenant used mostly one handed weapons over two handers, because that is where some variation can be found at this point.

Knighthonor.4061:

Moonlit.6421:

What’s the difference between the way this is set up and a thief’s initiative is set up? Honestly asking here bc I didn’t personally see any problem with it

Thief dont have upkeep skills.

and Thief dont start at half.

Thief Utilities dont cost initiatives.

Thief Heal dont cost initiatives.

Thief Elite dont cost initiatives.

thats how its different.

In the business we call this a HEAD SHOT

Mace/Axe and Hammer actually felt good in terms of energy costs.

Staff, on the other hand, could do with some cost reductions. While the other sets use a 5/5/10/15 (or even 5/5/10/10 in the case of M/Axe) cost set, the Staff uses a 5/10/15/15 cost set (with a tacked on 10 energy cost on the rather underwhelming skill 2 subskill), which is…. quite a bit more punishing.

I think it is fine that Rev weapon skills cost energy – managing that energy is an important part of playing the class well, and separates the playstyle from other professions.

I do agree with Crise that starting at 50 energy seems odd, since it prevents you from bursting an opponent at the start of combat. I also think the energy recovery (to 50) on Legend swap seems a little cheesy and kind of encourages spamming legend swaps for more energy. I think this is fine for some builds, but it should also be reasonable to make a build that specializes is one legend and isn’t penalized for failure to swap solely to regen energy. I think the energy regen on legend swap should not be default, but could be provided by an invocation trait, for example. Without energy regen on legend swap, energy-expensive skills could be made more powerful since the player would need to actively conserve energy to use them.
I also think energy should also max at 100 when OOC.

Crise.9401:

Starting at 50 energy on engagement sucks though, because it means certain skills are locked off for the start of the encounter

A worse version of necro starting at zero LF this is the cherry on top T_T. I’m looking forward to the devs interaction with this class finally bold proof lol. No worries just keep the criticism up the best that could is a perfect situation for me to say “3 more years to go”.

also, thief has skills that grant him initiative besides the natural regen..

revenant doesn’t have these !

so yes, either remove energy cost from skills or introduce traits that grant energy back.

and I was of the mind that they could chop down some of the skills recharges.

Seriously, all 3 of the fun skills are gated behind recharges.

The main issue is that the class is built and balanced around having the energy thingy and such. Which means that removing the energy cost would mean basically rebuild and rebalance the whole class.

This is much needed.

fluidmonolith.3584:

I think it is fine that Rev weapon skills cost energy – managing that energy is an important part of playing the class well, and separates the playstyle from other professions.

I do agree with Crise that starting at 50 energy seems odd, since it prevents you from bursting an opponent at the start of combat. I also think the energy recovery (to 50) on Legend swap seems a little cheesy and kind of encourages spamming legend swaps for more energy. I think this is fine for some builds, but it should also be reasonable to make a build that specializes is one legend and isn’t penalized for failure to swap solely to regen energy. I think the energy regen on legend swap should not be default, but could be provided by an invocation trait, for example. Without energy regen on legend swap, energy-expensive skills could be made more powerful since the player would need to actively conserve energy to use them.
I also think energy should also max at 100 when OOC.

I believe the express intent was to prevent the class from being burst oriented. Players have been kind of abusing the weapon swap to work around the cool down balance in each class….. some go as far as weapon weapon replacement before entering combat for free protections. (See Guardian guides that now treat it as meta)

Everything I’ve seen so far about the Reverant suggests it should be a momentum building class; gaining cumulative power output the longer its in combat. In theory this is the class version of Condi damage vs Zerks. But the question is “how much momentum can you gain while juggling energy”? I haven’t had a chance to play it yet, but I suspect that was the original design goal. But is that still the goal? And how close in execution have the managed in this iteration?

Maimakterion.5940:

Why do you want to suck some of the uniqueness out of the new class?

Uh because that is every forum critique of every class?

“Why is this class different!!!!”

I also feel that energy cost needs to be adjusted. Weapon skills dont cost a lot of energy but the utilities… well since the class seems to be very dependant form utility skills, it seems odd that you loose energy by using these so quickly. I do not have any specific idea on what to exactly change and how, but form where im standing right now, something should be changed in the aera of energy costs or even cooldowns to make playing revenant more fluent. While trying to fight you simply run out of skills very quick, and and due to lack of ability to gain distance from the enemy, to wait for the energy to replanish, and cooldowns to go down, you are being left with weapon skill nr 1 to defend yourself each time you get into an encounter. Also energy cost of a healing might bean other nail to the coffin.when you are alreday running short on it.

I also have some thoughts on revenant, that are not connected with energy management. I will put these here in case any dev will care to read this topic:
1. Impretty dissapointed with the demon legend. Blinding your self with one skill that might save you from a pesky pistol/dagger thief, is not a good idea. Also self-cripple on one of 2 skills that can help you escape from a hairy situation, also boarders its usefullness a lot(the other one skill is staff nr5). I undrstand the idea of punishing the player for using a cool working skill but these punishements seem to be a bit harsh, and totally negate usefullnes of these skills in situations that happen pretty often on the battlefield.
2. Some of the weapon skills and utilities seem to have a bit long casting time in my opinion. Hammer nr 5 for example, is the most powerfull hammer skill so its logical that it will be the hardest to land, but in a a situation where non of the other hammer skills nor utilities has an ability to make it easier to land the hit, it might be very hard to use it efficiently. A fix to that could be making hammer 3 and 5 to work as a combo(i tried it but it just does not work), but thats just a thought. Also dwarf legend elite semms to be pretty undrpowered due to a very long casting time and very short duration, also im dying to know how big is the dmg reduction on that skill(the description does not say).
3. Revenant poses very little mobility. It is slow, and do not have any trait nor utility that would passivly increas his movement speed by 25%, like it is with most of the classes. Wapon/utility mobility skills either criplle you, make you return to the starting point, or can only move you to the marked target, which makes these useless in terms of boosting your mobility or escaping form dangerous situations-everytime you will need to run you will get left behind and die.
4. Revenant feels bit squishy as for a hevy class (my opinion!). Warrior= lot of health but not much armor, guardian=a lot of armor but not much health, but revenant has guardians health problem and warriors armor problem all in one, and with the mobility issues.. well you die. Dont get me wrong on defoult beta celestial set has a decent amount of health and armor, but what with other more targeted builds?

All this is ofcourse my personall opinion after short time of trying the revenant out. My idea, of playing revenant, might by corrupted with the fact, that im usually a warior player. Playing a warrior means having a lot of mobility, and using a lot of skills in a very short time. Maby if i was a necro, aguardian or a mesmer player, I would look at revenant in a different way, and some of the problems… well wouldnt be a problem for me. Or maby i just dont understand the idea behind this revenant as a large group suport fighting class.

After all that criticism i would only like to add that generally I really like the new revenant class. Its a cool idea, i like the skills and weapons and that awsome armor, i just thik that things need little tweaking to make it work better.

P.S. Also sory for my english i know its not perfect.