it really wouldn’t do much beyond break every thieves current rotations and cooldown balances.
Players would still complain about thieves mechanics they’d still see it as “spam” and they still wouldn’t realize that initiative based combat has drawbacks.
Not only all that but the bad players who think someone heartseeking 4 times at them while they are at full health is something really powerful would be able to continue not learning the game mechanics and instead find that if they complain enough anything they don’t understand would get removed/nerfed
I don’t know why you would want to delay DB at all, the init is high enough that it can’t really be Spammed to the extent that HS is. Also HS spam seems relatively ineffective so who is really complaining about it, is it really a problem?
Init does seem too high on a few skills but not on D/Anything, so I am not sure where the balance would come in if they did this.
1 sec delay will not stop HS spammers as it is, they will just keep mashing 22222 until their init is gone anyways, and people will still complain.
In short, I guess I would say I am against it because I am not sure what it would fix, or if it would fix anything. Plus I’m not sure what is broken.
However I would like that thief skills CANNOT BE QUED… I can’t stand using my skills over/over because of the que system like other classes, we don’t have cool-downs if we waste 1 point of int it screws up everything.
Imo it would do more harm than good to the thieve community, it would make the thief feel less fluid and also quickness would be meaningless for this particular profession.
For example we have a trait that has a 10% chance on crit to give 2 sec quickness, if the abilities have 1sec internal cooldown, having quickness or not would be exactly the same…. Also true with the utility that grants 5 sec, what good would it be if we have to use 5 different abilities in order to take any advantage out of it…
I think this change goes against of what a thief should be, at least in my POV.
Throw in the fact that skills do have a cooldown due to initiative regen rate and such… sure we can use HS 4-5 times before we have to wait on regen but then we have to wait on the regen to use ANY weapon moves.
I thought that was already in as a global cooldown or gotta wait for the last skill to finish thing.
Initiative instead of cooldowns is intentional so we CAN spam moves, as opposed to the other classes. It’s one of our unique I’m a pretty snowflake perks.
Zestee, Cryptician Zetti, Zissi The Jack, Zi Mao,
Ziffy Snidehide, Zadie Hawkkin, Zannie Oakley, Zuulja
[ODIN],[NaCl] – Tarnished Coast
I’ve noticed that more experienced players never spam the same skill, so a 1s cooldown would not break rotations. New players tend to spam the same skills as it feels “natural” but even with a 1s cd, spamming the skill feel clunky when testing it. there isn’t the charr hump hump ( ofc, im counting the 1s on my head, might feel different with the actual CD)
and GW1 Assassin, gw1 equivalent to thief. is about skill chains and combs. wouldn’t it be cool if thief became a little more like that, currently it feels that only the experience players are using combo/rotations, and they are also the deadliest!
Aim to stop the 1 skill spam, and rework skills that currently are not worth spending initiative on, balance initiative cost, make them more fluid and into a chain/rotation. seems like it would be more fun
Speaking of combos and weapon chains, I think it would be kind of cool if they made it a bit like Devil May Cry. Give us a damage bonus if we string together different attacks, but give us a damage penalty for overuse of the same move within a limited timeframe.
see both ideas are great, driving the thief more combo oriented seems a lot more fun and could help balance/fit in some skills like flanking strike/dancing dagger which you rarely see anyone using.
or even head shot; this skill is great but initiative cost is too high, so if you want a rupt you have to give up alot of damage. and imagine if they reduced initiative cost lol trollfest!
I just don’t see what there is to “fix” a good thief won’t spam the same move unless theres a clear advantage to it (such as burning all your initiative on HS when a dungeon boss is below 25% hp) at which point any alterations will nerf the burst damage capabilities the thief was designed to have.
On top of that the bads and the new players will still “cheese” in some form or other and the idiots who think spamming HS is so overpowered will still refuse to use any form of defense.
The fact the entire thief is sort of designed around cooldowns coming after burning x number of attacks means as soon as you decide to change that one component you have to change practically everything about the thief, at which point you may as well just remove the thief and merge the skills with people who already use the mechanics you want to change to.
true, I guess no HS on bosses would be a draw back.
and yea, but sadly the class will continue to get nerfed as long as new players keep on spamming skills & people keep complaining about the spamming. The easiest solution would seem to be to educate new players/noob players early on to use rotations. and a short CD would kinda force them to do this
and a very short cd would still allow u to burn down x of attacks, just not the same one over and over, so the mechanic stays the same. this would not affect any experienced player and could help balance less used skills.
idk, this is just my idea i would like to hear from yours too! if you have any, what do you think are some improvements thief could have to make the class more enjoyable and less nerfable!
btw, enjoying the convo, thanks everyone for keeping it troll free so far
but you shouldn’t have to change mechanics to appease people that think somethings unfair or overpowered simply due to their lack of understanding of how it works.
Thats how you end up with 1 button counters to classes and such.
The fact that you can spam heartseeker 4-5 times before you have to wait for the cooldown comes with a multitude of penalties and still doesnt stop it from being a really ineffectual way to deal damage (to the point where against some people you’ll be dealing no damage at all) if that is enough to cause an entire reworking of a profession where do you stop?
Do you totally rework guardians because they can get a load of boons and a group of people think thats unfair because their top health tier high armour character doesn’t get access to that many boons because they have other stuff?
People cry about “HS” spam against my burst build all the time.
What they don’t realize is that I did over 80% of my damage to them using cnd->steal->backstab THEN I spam #2 and they die and they say I am HS spamming noob.
I think it’s hilarious because I usually only hit with 1-2 HS before they are dead.
I prefer the current way, so they blow all their initiative then take a beating. All is right in the world while hacking a HS spammer apart with my sword. The sound of their anguished screams of “don’t!” “stop!” “no!” “for the love of GOD!!”……is music to my ears.
let take a look at head shot yes it can daze your target stop 3-4 cast at most"if your not spec in to any meter regen" you done a total of roughly 1.5k-3k dmg. is that really useful use of your hole meter probably not….
if you added 1 second delay between cast. it probably would not even be that noticed because a lot of player do not cast with in 1 second of another in turn probably lead to more skill of the other player being intrupted just to the way it would time out.
when i run head shot as a support to deal with say “dd ele” i alway go 4 1 4 1 4 1 that a 1/2 second cast inbetween headshots.
I suggested a 3 second cooldown on thief skills to get rid of 1 button spamming months ago.
It was largely ignored because honestly thieves are in denial and just think that thief players are magically better than the rest of the world, like that actually makes sense.
I suggested a 3 second cooldown on thief skills to get rid of 1 button spamming months ago.
It was largely ignored because honestly thieves are in denial and just think that thief players are magically better than the rest of the world, like that actually makes sense.
Its not that thieves are better its just that good players already have no issues with most the thief toolset because it relies on understanding how it works to counter rather than pressing a button on the keyboard to counter.
Seriously if your dying to HS spam your dying to much much worse things a thief can technically do more damage autoattacking than spamming HS unless your low life (at which point thats where HS is made for).
Nerfing thieves because new players and players who actively refuse to fight back/play defensively/run something other than full zerker cloth armour would totally trash thieves against higher level players who already counter things reliably at which point thief would then be locked out of high level pvp because low level pvpers decided they were too hard to learn to fight against.
i would like to hear from yours too! if you have any, what do you think are some improvements thief could have to make the class more enjoyable and less nerfable!