Guild Wars 2

Why a thief can hit me with 1923 toughness with 9088 and is 2 seconds also invisible?
He is selected but invisible, wtf? Thats overpowerd and not fair. I mean the invisible.
Damage is ok. Thief can kill everyone with 2-3 backstabs.
Backstab – Daggerstealth – Backstab – AOE Stealh – Backstab.
Of course he is selectable but invisible all the time. Want also invisible colour after stealth for 2-3 seconds.

Without toughness Gear he would hit me with 13345!
Can’t evade when I can’t see thief.

Discuss.
How think thiefs should this attack should be buffed?
Maybe immobilize for 2 seconds and damage increased by 50% for onehits?

[img]http://imageshack.us/f/59/unbenanntyfy.png/[/img]

Thieves cannot be invisible “all the time.” Thus your points are moot.

If you were in WvW, people have used exploits to be invisible and it is not just thieves.

It’s not an exploit, its a server side rendering issue. Unfair….yes. Should thieves no longer use stealth till they fix it? No.

A thief can be “invisible all the time” as long as the thief doesn’t attack and has a target to attack after coming out of stealth.

If he attacks from stealth, he gets a 3 second debuff where he can’t stealth again… but with the server problem where he doesn’t show on the screen for about 3 seconds, it can appear to people (especially when the max amount of people is loaded on the screen) that they never come out even when they do attack.

The latter is a server problem that should be fixed.

Keep in mind that the thief has an ability to make the next attack do a bonus 50% damage.

the thief hits that hard once every 45 seconds…. that is their main utlity with that build, if the thief gets stunned out of stealth he would die very quickly built totally glass cannon.

that crit is actually a 6000 crit which is achieveable by almost all classes, but its just the signet which has made it so strong.

The server issue is your problem here

I think the challenge is in actually landing the backstab, which isn’t exactly the IWIN Button some people make it out to be. CnD has a cast time and has to land in kissing distance, Powder-Seeker-Stealth is a big Initiative chunk, and in other cases you’d be burning the heal or utility – some Thieves have the confidence for that.

And Backstabbing back to back still throws a 3 second CD in between opportunities to do it, not actual stabbing.

As mentioned, there’s also the server fighting against you, which I agree needs to be fixed, because I don’t want to be cheap as much as you don’t want me to.

PsionicDingo.2065:

I think the challenge is in actually landing the backstab, which isn’t exactly the IWIN Button some people make it out to be. CnD has a cast time and has to land in kissing distance, Powder-Seeker-Stealth is a big Initiative chunk, and in other cases you’d be burning the heal or utility – some Thieves have the confidence for that.

And Backstabbing back to back still throws a 3 second CD in between opportunities to do it, not actual stabbing.

As mentioned, there’s also the server fighting against you, which I agree needs to be fixed, because I don’t want to be cheap as much as you don’t want me to.

Don’t forget that it does half damage if you aren’t behind the target when it hits. if the target turns much at all, bam, useless thief.

The screenshot shows you eating the 1-off burst of a full gimmick glass cannon mug/signet backstab build. It involves venoms (45s cooldown), a precasted CnD follwed by Steal (45s cooldown), and Assassins Signet (45s cooldown).

The numbers shown in the screenshot rely on various stacking bonuses with long cooldowns, and are not representitive of Backstab’s normal damage against that amount of Toughness.

After using the 1 off gimmick opener that thief then has no survivability stats or utility, and is generally up kittencreek for the next 45 seconds. And he still has to finish you.

Since this gimmick requires the Thief to load multiple cooldown abilities into one damaging opener, if you succesfully dodge his opener then you probably just won the fight. In this build, the start of the burst is telegraphed because you will see the Thief begin to cast CnD at range. Dodge as he starts the cast and the guy just lost half his initiative, his teleporting opener, his venom, possibly his Signet, and he didn’t stealth so he can’t backstab.

The downed state / rally system allows builds like this to exist without breaking the combat, because blowing someone up doesn’t immediately remove them from the fight, and trying to run around and finish a downed player in a group fight when you have no health or armour at all is likely to get you killed. Since the downed state is an important part of the combat, there is always a role for a tankier player who is able to easily stomp or res without being in danger of dying.

Stop fighting thieves?

I dunno what to tell you mang. I get rocked by Condition Necros all the time. You know what I learned? To ****ing avoid Condition Necros.

ahahha only 13k? a thief show us on you tube how hit for 19.8k.
lol seriusly i stop fron now to play after found other day the last op thief that can’t be hitten and just hit you with out you can see it. I play with a guardian on 3488 of tough with out wvw bonus and i continue to be hit too much for a def class, seriusly when we said the our shield is a crap IS A CRAP, and btw HOW can be possible that a class can hide itself every 3 second!!!!! and have all the skill coldown every 6 second?! in a game with out healer we can all barely re log a thief, is immortal do a lot of damage is a stealth classes, have a lot of hp, heave a lot of endurance, so think we can say that top op class of mmorpg 2013 will be thief, winning agains warhammer slayer and marauder lol

Yep, 2394 toughness here.
Downed in a few hits while permanently poisoned by an opponent I can’t target because he’s invisible the whole time. Oh well I guess I’ll just run next time. Oh wait no I wont because thieves are the only profession in the game you can’t ever run away from. So running didn’t work. Ok now I’m downed, at least I can delay my death a few more seco…oh, nope. Finished off by an invisible theif I can’t target.

Makes no sense.
I quit GW2 untill they at least make an effort to balance classes.

Tesq.1432:

ahahha only 13k? a thief show us on you tube how hit for 19.8k.
lol seriusly i stop fron now to play after found other day the last op thief that can’t be hitten and just hit you with out you can see it. I play with a guardian on 3488 of tough with out wvw bonus and i continue to be hit too much for a def class, seriusly when we said the our shield is a crap IS A CRAP, and btw HOW can be possible that a class can hide itself every 3 second!!!!! and have all the skill coldown every 6 second?! in a game with out healer we can all barely re log a thief, is immortal do a lot of damage is a stealth classes, have a lot of hp, heave a lot of endurance, so think we can say that top op class of mmorpg 2013 will be thief, winning agains warhammer slayer and marauder lol

If you’re getting instantly owned by thieves on a guardian, you’re doing something wrong. I feel as though your gameplay ability may not be much better than your English. Also, you made it quite clear you don’t know what you’re talking about when you said the thief has a lot of HP. Thieves are one of the lowest HP classes.

thiefs are op and everyone knows exept the ppl playing thiefs becouse they never tried other classes

If you’re getting instantly owned by thieves on a guardian, you’re doing something wrong. I feel as though your gameplay ability may not be much better than your English. Also, you made it quite clear you don’t know what you’re talking about when you said the thief has a lot of HP. Thieves are one of the lowest HP classes.

thief can have 20k hp and still hit for 5k and run away from whoever is chasing him

other classes cant do it

@Saurus

I need more than a blanket OP cry (in fact, try presenting the argument without the term, just be objective) and a veiled accusation of ignorance to the Thief community to go on.

Playing a Guardian, Ele, and Mesmer (I got bored of the Warrior) in addition to my Thief, outside of a few “Argh, wasn’t paying attention and reacted poorly” moments (which is a danger from everyone) in sPvP, I don’t see any justification for the hate beyond Stealth, which isn’t the amazing perma-boon that kneejerk complainers make it out to be.

If running away is the problem, Eles, Warriors (charge tracking Shadow Step, whee), and other professions have ways to keep up. And if the Thief is running away, don’t chase – if he’s fleeing, you probably were going to win; in WvW it’s not the big picture, in sPvP you should have teammates (maybe even a Thief) to help you stamp him out.

Love that a guardian complained^^ seen one molestimg three people, no sweat.. And powerful heals as well.. 3 times in the fight did he manage to go up to full health:o
Guardiand are able to catch me, but takes timing, skills and knowlegde… Something that is kinda lost in WvW^^ people want a profession for everything with backstab dmg, range as a ranger, support as a fuardian and survivability as a necro xD

And a hint to ppl getting downed by thieves.. Go in big groups:D we can still pick one out, but if you have a guardian or the like we can’t stealth stomp:)

Somehow i fail to understand the whole issue about backstab, Except for the invise delay.
Do you guys like…Bend over and wait when you see a thief go invise or wha?

Ohh And I tried other " classes"^^ find warriors powerful but boring as OP. Guardians can be like Godmode if played right, but only staff as speedbuff killed it for me (come on necroes and ele got the dagger trait). Ele got such nice aoe (which still hits thieves in stealth).
Engineers I found better than thieves in several aspects, just a bit bugged.
Haven’t tried Mesmer, but my friend kills every prof with it:D he says confusion is the kitten.
With rangers I found the pet to be soulless and dumb:/
Necroes well hated that staff was only marks, but the DS is soooo strong :O

Mirtis.6847:

Somehow i fail to understand the whole issue about backstab, Except for the invise delay.
Do you guys like…Bend over and wait when you see a thief go invise or wha?

That’s what I imagine. I Stealth and see people either turn tail and run, or run in circles jumping while waiting me out. Thanks for the free opening.

I run a bit back and aoe. Last for 3-4 sec soo:D

saurus.8290:

thiefs are op and everyone knows exept the ppl playing thiefs becouse they never tried other classes

If you’re getting instantly owned by thieves on a guardian, you’re doing something wrong. I feel as though your gameplay ability may not be much better than your English. Also, you made it quite clear you don’t know what you’re talking about when you said the thief has a lot of HP. Thieves are one of the lowest HP classes.

thief can have 20k hp and still hit for 5k and run away from whoever is chasing him

other classes cant do it

I’ve tried every class except necro, mate. Why don’t you give thief a try?

The problem is that damage gear scales SOO much better than defensive gear short of a few defensive built classes. Its the reason why we have so many glass cannons running around. Add on to that the delay in rendering after invis (hello free HSS). We get a bunch of what seems perma invis thieves who can kill all but the most def classes. It almost makes me sad i picked a more balanced stat build. I dont kill as much as my bersker brothers, however, they better hope they kill me.

My Thief Doing 21k+ Backstab!

I’m so sick of people whining. You know how much it can suck to play a thief in WvW, compared to other stealthers in other games? We need to use bow a lot, or get lucky and find someone to pick off in a mass of chaos.

You want to nerf Backstab? FINE! Give me permanent stealth (with reduced speed) in exchange.

Nothing beats DAoC when stealthers could climb walls and literally infiltrate enemy bases like true stealthers. Good times.

Yeah, as far as Stealth goes, when I’m on my other professions, I’d rather deal with the current Thief than any of the old WoW Rogue builds. Or TOR Operatives back in their prime. Or DAoC actually making stealth truly more than a set up tool.

This is why GW2 is going to be my last MMO. Everyone just complains about balance and never wants to take the time to learn how to fight. Honestly I blame blizzard for holding everyone hands in the MMO scene.

You’re definitely doing something wrong on your guardian if you’re losing to any thief. For a thief to do 13k backstab crits, they have to be completely glass cannon and put all of their traits, runes, sigils, and utilities into it. These thieves get an easy kill every few minutes on an unskilled player, but are worthless in tourney as they just get dropped in 2 seconds as soon as they are targeted. Just roll dodge when you see that thief go in stealth, and use retaliation. Your play style is to blame in this case for your loss, but you can easily fix that

Bazeleel.8219:

This is why GW2 is going to be my last MMO. Everyone just complains about balance and never wants to take the time to learn how to fight. Honestly I blame blizzard for holding everyone hands in the MMO scene.

I totally agree! MMO’s these days are nothing but complaints over what i think is nothing. Lets go back to stat and xp loss on death, or the ability to lose all items if you can’t get your corpse back. Would any of these things be “tolerated” by our kitten community?

Yeah, the amount of moaning about nerfing and whatever is just stupid and juvenile.
I complain that I die, not that I was killed.

Thadren Calder.1397:

Bazeleel.8219:

This is why GW2 is going to be my last MMO. Everyone just complains about balance and never wants to take the time to learn how to fight. Honestly I blame blizzard for holding everyone hands in the MMO scene.

I totally agree! MMO’s these days are nothing but complaints over what i think is nothing. Lets go back to stat and xp loss on death, or the ability to lose all items if you can’t get your corpse back. Would any of these things be “tolerated” by our kitten community?

Guys, you´re right. I often think about a time where I played one old MMO (who played it will know what I´m talking about) where you weren´t safe in the PvE environment, there was players known as PKs (little hint) which could kill you anytime, anywhere, even in the cities if they were skilled enough and can loot your corpse and steal your equipment. Can you imagine this now? I doubt that…..

It is called bad game design, in games where you have lots of skills and are meant to use them, low TTK is considered low skill-cap, no skill should take out such a chunk of HP that size in an MMORPG (and to be fair it is not the only skill or only class), for a game that promotes itself as a high skill cap MMORPG it is frankly hilariously bad design.

On the whining front, this may be why GW1 didn’t have official forums. It’s why I left GW2Guru, so many people who would rather be closed mindedly miserable than play the game.

the backstab, which isn’t exactly the IWIN Button some people make it out to be.

Dunno, got crit for a backstab for 16k damage last night. That’s pretty close to what I would consider “IWIN”.

a precasted CnD follwed by Steal

Ah right, Thieves can precast that while Stealing. Makes more sense. Too bad it’s hard to see their animation during the night time …

Btw what is the steal range? 900?

Another bad player complaining? what a surprise. Why don’t you try to play a Thief and try to do what you actually are describing here? You will see that you were wrong. Backstab build is okay, not bad, not good.

^

Are you talking to me?

I have IWIN buttons similar to a Thief. I was simply asking to check what the range on Steal was, since I haven’t played my Thief enough to be familiar with it. I mean, I could spend some time on the wiki and builder to research it myself, but I had thought I could get an answer on the Thief forums in less time. Apparently Thieves don’t know the range on their own ability, or maybe it’s just you?

Sidenote: Backstab build is very good when the combo adds up to 33,000 damage at (900?) range within 1.0 seconds.

EasymodeX.4062:

^

Are you talking to me?

I have IWIN buttons similar to a Thief. I was simply asking to check what the range on Steal was, since I haven’t played my Thief enough to be familiar with it. I mean, I could spend some time on the wiki and builder to research it myself, but I had thought I could get an answer on the Thief forums in less time. Apparently Thieves don’t know the range on their own ability, or maybe it’s just you?

Sidenote: Backstab build is very good when the combo adds up to 33,000 damage at (900?) range within 1.0 seconds.

I was talking to Vollendung, I thought it was clear that when not quoting somebody your message is ment for the original poster.

People who think backstab build is good are a joke when it comes to tPvP. Backstab build is neither good or bad, just decent.

To answer your question, steal has a standard range of 900 and a range of 1200 with the trait long reach.

P.S: there is no IWIN button(s) in Guild Wars 2.

Apologies for the mis-reply then.

That aside, who said anything about tPvP?

Lols, the screenshot is from WvW.

Trust me, 33k is pretty close to “IWIN”. Not quite, since unless they have the range trait, I can rangecheck them at 1200 and use an invuln to basically shut down the build (I can imagine a wasted Mug, CnD, Quick/noEnd buff with Exposed will pretty much make the guy a sitting duck).

I’ll have to spend some time on the builder to see how viable/likely the range trait is in this type of build.

Oh this was about WvW? I shouldn’t have replied then because complaining about balance in WvW is the most useless thing GW2 players can do. WvW was designed to be for fun and fun only, there is no balance and never will be. There is gear difference in WvW if I am not mistaken and the lagg and chaos makes normal builds like Backstab build seem OP.

Almost all “HIGH DAMAGE WTF BBQ” complaints are from WvW, in large part because the raw gear has more crit damage stats than sPvP gear. Nevermind other stuff. 25k Kill Shot? WvW.

Then level difference and so on. However, Backstabs still hit for up to 18k and probably more against level 80 glass builds.

You are also making kittenumptions about lag and ‘chaos’. Just don’t.