Guild Wars 2

How is this possible?

Vulnerability + might
or maybe you were naked

i suggest 25 stacks of bloodlust+ 15 stacks of might + assassin’ s signet +zerk amulet..
u can reach 15 stacks of might with all 3 signets, but it doesn t help u reach 19k BS..
he needed vuln too, and i don t really know how he could stack it on you alone
but seems strange also with all of those he can reach such an high dmg

LOL. Let me give you a hint: I pulled a 11k Backstab in WvW the other day I had 15 stacks of Might.

If you got hit by 19k Backstab, the thief had at least 20 stacks, you must have had a few stacks (maybe 5 or 10) of vulnerability.

but kitten . my condolences. lel

Signets + Zerker + vuln + executioner+stacks if you were under 50%. The most I’ve hit in PvP after the patch is about 16.5k, but I died to a stiff breeze.

I wasn’t even in combat.
So yeah they must’ve had a ton of bloodlust and might.

Also he probably took no quarter instead of hidden killer and got lucky. Mind you he could of even used sigil of intelegance.

no.. no quarter doesn t make difference.. 16% more.. not 100%

With the right traits including NQ, the dmg goes up real fast.

anyway.. if u have scholar and u are full hp (10%), if u attack someone above 50% (10% CD), if the target has at least one condition (10%), if u use just one BPHS (+ 5% dmg), if u use assassin’s signet (+15%), u have :
2.4 ( coefficient of BS) X 1.5 ( bonus dmg by all those things above)X 2.5 ( zerk amulet with no quarters X 3225 ( power by 2555 zerk + 450 by 15 stacks of might due to 3 active signets + 250 due to bloodlust) X 900 ( dmg of pvp dagger ) = 26122500

this one has to be divided bby target ’s armor
armor 2600= 10047 dmg
armor 2000 = 13061 dmg
armor 1900 ( light marauder build ) = 13800 dmg

to reach 19k dmg u should have 40 stacks of vulnerability,
because, reaching 25 stacks of might plus 25 stacks of bloodlust with zerk is the highest power that you can reach ( 3525 )
so, against armor 2600 = 11k dmg
against 1900 armor = 15k dmg
with 25 stacks of vulnerability we reach 19k dmg, more or less

so, in the end, 25 stacks of might plus 25 stacks of bloodlust + 25 stacks of vulnerability+ zerk.. against marauder light.. 19k dmg

My question is what is your profession/build? And did you try to fight naked? (Chest, pants and boots give you armor in pvp).

I’d say you were missing an armor piece or two

You can easily reach over 20k Backstabs in WvW. In SPvP you don’t have access to foods and other odds n sods…

You can however, easily stack 25 Might solo as a Thief. Infiltrator & Assassins Signet ( +5 Might per Signet Trait) + Shadow Trap with the Trapper Trait (It’s gives 15 Might if you walk on it and he activates it) for a free 750 Power (25 Stacks of Might). Scholar Runes + 10% Inc damage if you have a condition on you, + executioner… There’s a lot of things to boost strength.

i was wearing full armour thief with carrion amulet.

Naggar.2047:

How is this possible?

GOT REKT, SON !

DreceiverX crits by almost 21k in WvW
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/199641/gw114.jpg

Naggar.2047:

How is this possible?

Because God is dead. That thief killed Him.

25 stacks of bloodlust, signet build + zerker amulet+ w/e ferocity runes he runs + vuln stacks

you can probably one shot that guy tho

It’s called the Trapper build. It’s rather powerful, but it requires you be fairly unobservant.

Below is an example.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vh3RV;1RwVa0R5gOFd0;9;4IJM;0138247147;4nNk3L;1G3G3G3G35z

25 might stacks, 1/2 second action time, 15 stacks of vulnerability.

Sparda.9750:

anyway.. if u have scholar and u are full hp (10%), if u attack someone above 50% (10% CD), if the target has at least one condition (10%), if u use just one BPHS (+ 5% dmg), if u use assassin’s signet (+15%), u have :
2.4 ( coefficient of BS) X 1.5 ( bonus dmg by all those things above)X 2.5 ( zerk amulet with no quarters X 3225 ( power by 2555 zerk + 450 by 15 stacks of might due to 3 active signets + 250 due to bloodlust) X 900 ( dmg of pvp dagger ) = 26122500

this one has to be divided bby target ’s armor
armor 2600= 10047 dmg
armor 2000 = 13061 dmg
armor 1900 ( light marauder build ) = 13800 dmg

to reach 19k dmg u should have 40 stacks of vulnerability,
because, reaching 25 stacks of might plus 25 stacks of bloodlust with zerk is the highest power that you can reach ( 3525 )
so, against armor 2600 = 11k dmg
against 1900 armor = 15k dmg
with 25 stacks of vulnerability we reach 19k dmg, more or less

so, in the end, 25 stacks of might plus 25 stacks of bloodlust + 25 stacks of vulnerability+ zerk.. against marauder light.. 19k dmg

Your math isn’t quite right and is missing almost 40% (additive) in damage modifiers.

Kocoff.7582:

LOL. Let me give you a hint: I pulled a 11k Backstab in WvW the other day I had 15 stacks of Might.

If you got hit by 19k Backstab, the thief had at least 20 stacks, you must have had a few stacks (maybe 5 or 10) of vulnerability.

but kitten . my condolences. lel

I can do 11k to the heavy golems in sPvP on 16 stacks. Also remember CnD applies 3 stacks of vuln, stackable up to two times if you’re quick. I frequently do 12-14k on light amor targets in sPvP with Marauder and not Impact/Night/Force and not using NQ. Berserker obviously bumps this considerably.

For obvious reasons, this is why I strongly stand against the [Teef] guild’s suggestions on buffing HK to provide a 50% damage bonus on backstabs. Builds that even spec lightly into this kind of damage would be one-shotting tanks, lol. That’s just unfun.

A proper build for sheer damage can get to 19k on a glass light armor target via 25 bloodlust using Impact/Night or Impact/Force sigils. A signet build is also very capable of packing 20 stacks of might, with a trapper signet build easily getting 25 stacks of might + 13 vuln without doubling up on CnD.

The damage is huge, but frankly, you’re looking at a thief with no utilities, heals, or condition cleanses anywhere in its build.

As far as my WvW crits go (since I was referenced), they have gone higher. I’ve managed up to almost 27k once, and 23/24k a few times, and it’s still theoretically possible, however I rarely get the chance to screen cap bigger stabs as combat is typically pretty demanding without having access to extended stealth or resets once I commit.

Edit: Guy above me beat me to the benefits of Shadow Trap paired with a signets build lol. I’ve tried this in WvW but had limited success due to the difficulty of getting the trap to be useful in open field. ST has some very good potential in sPvP and PvE, though, due to the predictability of foes’ movements via stacking or putting them on points/common objectives.

Serious Thought.5394:

It’s called the Trapper build. It’s rather powerful, but it requires you be fairly unobservant.

Below is an example.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vh3RV;1RwVa0R5gOFd0;9;4IJM;0138247147;4nNk3L;1G3G3G3G35z

25 might stacks, 1/2 second action time, 15 stacks of vulnerability.

can confirm, trapper build stronk.

@deceiver: from what? could u explain better?

Sparda.9750:

@deceiver: from what? could u explain better?

What are you referring to, exactly? o.o

ops sorry, right, i ment the part of missing damage.. i thought to have considered everything.. what i missed?

Lead Attacks, Sigil of Impact/Force, and my apologies, I think you included the bonuses of PT without stating them.

Naggar.2047:

How is this possible?

19k? did you do this on purpose with a friend or something because this is basically impossible

Bloodyx.5946:

Naggar.2047:

How is this possible?

19k? did you do this on purpose with a friend or something because this is basically impossible

Basically, which is kind of why it doesn’t happen very often in sPvP. You have to try really, really hard (stupid filter) on a build that’s really, really bad to get these kinds of numbers. Especially since coming close to them is doable on much better builds, and just unloading initiative on Shadow Shot and Heartseeker with fire/air slotted will deal similar damage with a build that doesn’t need everything in the galaxy to line up to work once, ever.

@deceiverX: well, i counted the bonuses.. more or less should be 1,5 moltiplier

it easy to do http://i.imgur.com/xA9ppAh.png

trait are crit bottem mid top
deadly bottem top bottem

sigil is force
rune scholar

Rotatoin is Needle trap > shadow trap > withdraw > shadow trap > assassin signet > backstab below 50% = 19k vs light

most yolo of yolo thief rotation

I see alot of math these days, but sometimes i cant hold myself back and imagine or point out that our RNGzzus has his fingers inside it too.

Im playing spvp unranked for the last few weeks now and didnt took a step into PvE or WvW recently.

What i just noticed is the following:

Teef //
Deadly 2-2-3
Crit 3-2-1
Trickery 2-1-2

d/p // sb

Hide in shadows
Infiltrator signet
Shadow Step
Shadow refuge
basilisk Venom

Marauder Amullet
Vampire Rune

I deal Crits about 6-9k depending on my opponent

I just changed and played around with the stats just for fun.
I tried to build the most bursty setup i could ended up with.
I ran the following setup:

Teef //
Deadly 2-2-3
Crit 3-2-1
Trickery 2-1-2

d/p // sb

Hide in shadows
Assassin signet
Agility signet
Shadow refuge
basilisk Venom

Berserker Amullet
Scholar Rune

I dealt avarage crits round about 13-15k most of the time.
BUT there were encounters where i reached 19k as well without any stacks of vulnerabilty or any other debuffs.

I run mostly solo so i have no buff support from allies.

On top of that i had 19k backstabs like 4 days ago on several players running Shadow Arts instead of Critical Traitline.

Sometimes it just doesnt feel right. Even more mystical it gets when i critted another teef for 18 or 19k, and right after that i only crit him for 15k for the rest of the match.

Anyone else noticed that?

Alot of you will argue that the other teef was running Zerker also, still that doesnt explain the fact y i first crit like a beast in spvp and after the high crit it goes down to 13-15k again!?

Thers is some sort of bug where you deal more damage, it happens on other proffessions aswell and it also happens in PvE and WvW.

Either the game fails to check armor or messes up with multipliers or does not clear temporary stat increases correctly so those addup (25 stack of might on top of those from last time etc.).

Personally I think it is the last option seeing that in wvw effects persist on occasion even after they timed out (but who knows).

Last time I tested this, my friend hit me for 16k on backstab with a zerker signet build, I had a marauder ammy equipped. Given he was running D/P so he wasn’t stacking vuln, I could easily see a 19k backstab from a trapper build.

+1 on it must be a bug.

Numbers cant be changed and if the same conditions are meet over a period of time and dmg numbers jump/fall from insane to normal or normal to insane it must be some sort of math error in the system.
Since its so RNG i think it will be sort of impossible to fix this also, the DMG Spikes just appear from time to time and we cant force it.

DeceiverX.8361:

For obvious reasons, this is why I strongly stand against the [Teef] guild’s suggestions on buffing HK to provide a 50% damage bonus on backstabs. Builds that even spec lightly into this kind of damage would be one-shotting tanks, lol. That’s just unfun.

Did they really suggest that? I thought the guild had some experienced thieves in it as well.

That is a World Record, right? The Beauty of D/p.

I didn’t do this with a friend, I was playing unranked.
That thief just came out of nowhere and wrecked me

i fought this build myself on my s/p thief i just double set up needle trap under myself he would lose down fight becuase he did not have hp to support his stomp xD.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

DeceiverX.8361:

For obvious reasons, this is why I strongly stand against the [Teef] guild’s suggestions on buffing HK to provide a 50% damage bonus on backstabs. Builds that even spec lightly into this kind of damage would be one-shotting tanks, lol. That’s just unfun.

Did they really suggest that? I thought the guild had some experienced thieves in it as well.

Judging from most of their suggestions, their aim seem to be pointing out subpar traits and placing them in line with and help compete with the other trait choices while attempting to make anything related to them more viable. The 50% damage to stealth attacks on hidden killer does that.

Granted 50% is a bit overkill, but you gotta admit with bunkers and dps running rampant and all the nerfs thieves got to their DPS this suggestion would keep thief at competitive dps levels.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

DeceiverX.8361:

For obvious reasons, this is why I strongly stand against the [Teef] guild’s suggestions on buffing HK to provide a 50% damage bonus on backstabs. Builds that even spec lightly into this kind of damage would be one-shotting tanks, lol. That’s just unfun.

Did they really suggest that? I thought the guild had some experienced thieves in it as well.

1. not everyone can attempt to the meetings so don’t make blanket judgements
2. given the amount of defensives on every class atm (big acess to invuls, perma prot etc.) thief dmg is actually laughable in big picture even if they invest a lot into dmg… i may disagree with particular number but the problem is there

The numbers are fine. Sword auto is one of the best in the game. Dagger auto is one of the best in the game. HS is one of the best nukes in the game at its low health threshold, CnD has a very high coefficient. Unload is better for its duration than Rapid Fire. PW is better in many cases than hundred blades. FS/LS has a high coefficient. Shadow Shot has a stupidly high coefficient for its effects, Shadow Strike also has very high coefficients.

What does that leave us with not beating out the rest of the game with? The shortbow (a utility weapon whose damage is close to most other class’s utility weapons, if not a bit higher from CBomb), “utility” skills like BP, headshot, body shot, IS, disabling shot, etc. The only real valid complaint in the damage department is about the pistol mainhand auto.

The thief doesn’t lack damage at all. PvE is all about damage, and aside from eles being able to hit the same thing multiple times from effects like Ice Bow, we have the highest DPS in the game.

We have low relativistic damage in the PvP formats because there’s a need to be resetting so frequently via stealth and thus not doing damage. Our burst is very high, though, so it evens out a bit.

The only valid complaints about the class pretty much reside in the dependency in SA and subsequently camping stealth for defense, and the subsequent lack of good defenses elsewhere. Non-thieves don’t like it. I don’t like it. Non-stealth builds don’t like it. Hell, I don’t think a lot of people except trolls like it. Being able to move some of that defense around such that there isn’t a need to camp stealth would benefit everyone.

That said, a lot of the suggestions in the thread were absolutely absurd to the point where multiple people had to mention that the proposed ideas were beyond overpowered. There were propositions in there that allowed for border-line invincibility while still being able to stab for 20k. Yes, we don’t have high defense, and we are lacking in it, but we don’t need better protection uptime than guardians and more passive damage reduction than anything else in the game. That isn’t okay and doesn’t fix anything.

DeceiverX.8361:

The numbers are fine. Sword auto is one of the best in the game. Dagger auto is one of the best in the game. HS is one of the best nukes in the game at its low health threshold, CnD has a very high coefficient. Unload is better for its duration than Rapid Fire. PW is better in many cases than hundred blades. FS/LS has a high coefficient. Shadow Shot has a stupidly high coefficient for its effects, Shadow Strike also has very high coefficients.

What does that leave us with not beating out the rest of the game with? The shortbow (a utility weapon whose damage is close to most other class’s utility weapons, if not a bit higher from CBomb), “utility” skills like BP, headshot, body shot, IS, disabling shot, etc. The only real valid complaint in the damage department is about the pistol mainhand auto.

The thief doesn’t lack damage at all. PvE is all about damage, and aside from eles being able to hit the same thing multiple times from effects like Ice Bow, we have the highest DPS in the game.

We have low relativistic damage in the PvP formats because there’s a need to be resetting so frequently via stealth and thus not doing damage. Our burst is very high, though, so it evens out a bit.

The only valid complaints about the class pretty much reside in the dependency in SA and subsequently camping stealth for defense, and the subsequent lack of good defenses elsewhere. Non-thieves don’t like it. I don’t like it. Non-stealth builds don’t like it. Hell, I don’t think a lot of people except trolls like it. Being able to move some of that defense around such that there isn’t a need to camp stealth would benefit everyone.

That said, a lot of the suggestions in the thread were absolutely absurd to the point where multiple people had to mention that the proposed ideas were beyond overpowered. There were propositions in there that allowed for border-line invincibility while still being able to stab for 20k. Yes, we don’t have high defense, and we are lacking in it, but we don’t need better protection uptime than guardians and more passive damage reduction than anything else in the game. That isn’t okay and doesn’t fix anything.

Guard has a high uptime for almost all boons. Their condition clear is unparalleled with their numerous light fields and finishers and so they are the “tank class” of this game even though tanking isn’t really that much of an option in this game.

Now look at reveal. When you are revealed, a whole mechanic gets shut down for the duration of the reveal. Protection while revealed keeps a lesser defense active even while their main defensive mechanic is dead. It is a soft counter to a hard counter.

Not related to the 19k backstab, but related to thief buff discussion:

Thief was made (blah blah, reasons, selling points and the original poster aside) to be a mistake punisher. It’s why when people ran zerk they used to fear us (now most laugh at thief and go yay free kill)- they knew going full ham was stupid and they’d die for it. Now if we extend to punish a mistake, even if its minutely, we get murderized so hard its not even funny. Thief can no longer do what its supposed to. =/ Until it can, it’s easier to punish mistakes on Guardian and Engineer (or just to never ever make one via Elementalist and Mesmer… I mean really…cele and PU is just stupid at times) than it is to on Thief. Finding it on Thief is easy, capitalizing is next to impossible.

http://imgur.com/lVf5wMp

WvW is so easy

Asahi.1487:

http://imgur.com/lVf5wMp

WvW is so easy

Uplvl or no? Jesus christ.

thief has low accessibility to vulnerability and might.. i can t explain it anyway

Cynz.9437:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

DeceiverX.8361:

For obvious reasons, this is why I strongly stand against the [Teef] guild’s suggestions on buffing HK to provide a 50% damage bonus on backstabs. Builds that even spec lightly into this kind of damage would be one-shotting tanks, lol. That’s just unfun.

Did they really suggest that? I thought the guild had some experienced thieves in it as well.

1. not everyone can attempt to the meetings so don’t make blanket judgements
2. given the amount of defensives on every class atm (big acess to invuls, perma prot etc.) thief dmg is actually laughable in big picture even if they invest a lot into dmg… i may disagree with particular number but the problem is there

I assume that any suggestions presented as [Teef] suggestions go through some sort of voting/approval where some experienced players are present. No experienced player would think 50% extra dmg with HK is okay. Even 10% extra dmg would make other CS gms just pointless to choose.

It is disappointing to see that a group of people presenting themselves as official thief guild has suggestions like this one, it takes any credibility away and people have no reason to consider the guild’s suggestions as serious.

reinforever.8902:

Asahi.1487:

http://imgur.com/lVf5wMp

WvW is so easy

Uplvl or no? Jesus christ.

forgot to mention it was vs a lv80 guardian prob in zerk or something w/o toughness

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Cynz.9437:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

DeceiverX.8361:

For obvious reasons, this is why I strongly stand against the [Teef] guild’s suggestions on buffing HK to provide a 50% damage bonus on backstabs. Builds that even spec lightly into this kind of damage would be one-shotting tanks, lol. That’s just unfun.

Did they really suggest that? I thought the guild had some experienced thieves in it as well.

1. not everyone can attempt to the meetings so don’t make blanket judgements
2. given the amount of defensives on every class atm (big acess to invuls, perma prot etc.) thief dmg is actually laughable in big picture even if they invest a lot into dmg… i may disagree with particular number but the problem is there

I assume that any suggestions presented as [Teef] suggestions go through some sort of voting/approval where some experienced players are present. No experienced player would think 50% extra dmg with HK is okay. Even 10% extra dmg would make other CS gms just pointless to choose.

It is disappointing to see that a group of people presenting themselves as official thief guild has suggestions like this one, it takes any credibility away and people have no reason to consider the guild’s suggestions as serious.

If you doubt the validity of the Hidden Killer suggestion, then you can ask the one who finalized it why they chose that buff. You interested?

I have done 15k in WvW with no vuln on the opponent and with 5-6 might stacks only. He was tanky style necro (lvl 80),he had light armor. But i have like 247 crit dmg plus the wvw buff for power + food + thief rune. So it hits like a track