2 changes to make Thief desirable in raids

2 changes to make Thief desirable in raids

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

I posted this as a comment but I wanted to make my own thread so that this is more visible.

You only need to make a few small changes since our damage is fine and we have good utility in certain situations, especially the mobility to get to Sabetha’s platforms and the Vale Guardian’s circles. The solution is to make a few of our boosts a bit less selfish. You don’t have to do much to grant the Thief offensive group support.

Exposed Weakness: Change to “foes afflicted by your conditions take 10% more damage”. This means that EVERYONE does 10% more damage to the target, not just you. Pretty much most if not all of our main damaging skills apply a condition, whether it’s a damaging one or just Vulnerability/Weakness/Cripple etc. Through this, we can have viable offensive group support.

No Quarter: Change this to “Landing a critical hit while under the effects of Fury grants extended Fury duration to allies. Your Fury grants increased Ferocity.” Functionally the same, except now your 2s Fury is AoE and has the Ferocity buff.

Now we have the options for a 10% group damage buff, Fury uptime that can let you fill in for a Revenant plus 250 Ferocity for your group if you can maintain that Fury. Almost nothing about the class has changed, but we have the kind of offensive buffage that a raid will be looking for.

Of course I realise that this version of EW is basically the same as the DH spear trait with no cooldown. I would suggest to implement one or the other, not necessarily both. I would prefer the change to NQ.

Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief

(edited by Auesis.7301)

2 changes to make Thief desirable in raids

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Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

Nice suggestions, but a little OP. I like the general concept of where you are going though, I just think the numbers need tweaking. I think +10% damage for all it a bit too much in my opinion. I think a 10% bonus for you and a 5% bonus for allies would be more acceptable I think. As to the Ferocity on Fury, I think the allies should get a slightly smaller bonus for this too.

By adding flat bonuses to 5 players at once, you run the risk of things becoming very OP very quickly, so if they did implement this they would need to be careful with the numbers. I do like this suggestion though.

I have a more defensive support option for you, and also a change to help thieves cope more with the increased amount of reveal now available:

Resilience of Shadows (trait functionality change): Grant 25% damage reduction while affected by the reveal debuff. Any allies you stealth will gain 15% damage reduction when revealed.

Stealth is already a strong defensive tool and I personally didn’t think the damage reduction was that needed. If anything I think the revealed debuff is the thing that needs buffing. Now we have more ways to reveal, this will help us squishy thiefs survive a reveal better, without it breaking the game. And the above change would give us a way to add some defensive benefit to our allies.

Simplicity is complex.

Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.

(edited by Rin.1046)

2 changes to make Thief desirable in raids

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

Meh, we already have Phalanx Strength which lets a Berserker give everyone easy 25 Might along with very good DPS plus banners, all the stat auras like Empower Allies, Spotter, Assassin’s Presence and so on. I don’t see an issue with giving benefits to 5 targets.

Unfortunately, RoS is useless in any form for raids. Shadow Arts is not a traitline any Thief will take for them unless you are Venomshare, and even then you won’t be Stealthing much if at all. Defensive things aren’t really for us. Damage reduction should be left to the people putting out Protection and the Druid healing everyone back up.

Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief

(edited by Auesis.7301)

2 changes to make Thief desirable in raids

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Posted by: Rin.1046

Rin.1046

I know what you’re saying, but in my opinion those other professions are seriously overpowered. But hey, if Anet is happy to give the full 10% and everyone is happy with that, then I won’t complain.

Regarding RoS, the change is there so a thief can take advantage of not being in stealth. So for example, you are meleeing a champ with other melee players, you use blinding powder while everyone is attacking, so they reveal themselves pretty quickly, and then they get a defensive buff from the reveal.

I see no reason why we cannot have a way to support defensively, and supporting via reveal would be a thematically acceptable way to do that in my opinion.

Simplicity is complex.

Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.

(edited by Rin.1046)

2 changes to make Thief desirable in raids

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Posted by: Auesis.7301

Auesis.7301

After finishing the raid twice now, I can unfortunately safely say that it would still be useless. Taking Shadow Arts means your direct damage is inferior to the point of being dead weight, and if you take Venomshare for conditions then you can’t sacrifice a utility for a Stealth skill and a very temporary benefit. I would never, ever use that trait. There is no room to spec specifically in to being support alongside the designated Druid or the DH using Hammer to give everyone Protection. The rest of the team MUST be designated DPS and offensive enhancement or you will hit enrage. Offensive support is the biggest thing Thief needs to be competitive. Defensive support needs to catch up to such an enormous and overhaul-esque extent that it would never be viable vs. other choices.

Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief

(edited by Auesis.7301)

2 changes to make Thief desirable in raids

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Posted by: Cubotrix.1723

Cubotrix.1723

10% dmg buff for 5 of your allies despite what some people have said here IS NOT OP. DRUID GIVES A 15% dmg buff to allies with his trait grace of land.

And the truth is the thief needs a MASSIVE dmg buff to be comparable to other classes.