Guild Wars 2

BlackBeard.2873:

This is simply not true. I have played a thief and am still one of the most mobile builds without using stealth (I s/d with shortbow, although s/d on both sets works well too for the sigil of energy). I can get around just fine, and survive well enough in fights with all the evades. Sure, its not as easy as an auto-reset button as stealth (stealth, shadow-shot, and then pop up 2500 range away), but there is still more than enough mobility and ports to get away from anyone. Sure, I have a couple stun-breaks on my bar, but that is just par for the course of everyone else. I am telling you guys that most thieves have relied on stealth as a massive crutch for so long. Without stealth, there are still great options there, and it feels a lot more like playing the same game everyone else is.

Also, please don’t insult me just because I am glad there is a counter-play option to the frequent-stealth. I always considered that cheesy and no fun to play against, so I don’t do it myself.

Good players can make this work; I know I have before. I started this game intending to play a zero stealth thief. Sadly, it really isn’t competitive with other classes running elite quality builds. I can run a lot of other classes and just pure and simple do more/better and simultaneously offer more to my group. I can also do more with a stealth build, and I expect you are also using some amount of stealth yourself if you are using your S/D set as well as is possible.

Come on it’s not that nasty.

We still have plenty of ways to escape without stealth, to start with, and 30 seconds is really not that long if you learn to time your evades – shadowstep – infiltrator’s arrow etc.
And most of all non stealth reliant thieves are actually very effective if spec’d right.
No one uses them because it is indeed harder to play than your regular sealth spamming thief.

I understand you feel your favorite build got gutted, but seriously it’s not like the map will be filled with those traps.

Personnaly i’ll probably cringe the next time a mini bus goes banzai on me and my shadow refuge is of no use, but oh, well, it’s not like it will happen often anyway.

[quote=2025265;Caom.9251:

No stealth for a thief is:

No burst for a thief
No defense for a thief
No escape for a thief

No other classes have traps specifically out there to render them useless, even if it is at a high cost.[/quote]

Dear ArenaNet:

30 seconds is too excessive. Eliminating a professions key source of defense for 30 seconds says “pay for this, and thieves will be easy.”

This trap destroys thief gameplay, it is not difficult to get, lasts for an hour, 1200 range and reveals for 30 seconds. No Thief, as a very fragile profession can possibly manage to go toe to toe with tougher opponents without stealth.

So for 30 seconds. A thief is forced to run. Or die. Running in combat = dead anyways, especially for professions with easy gap closers.

I think your intention for this was to nerf Veil bombs. You took Thieves with it, because in the lower tiers Veil bombs are very very rare. So low tier thief gameplay, has become obsolete because of a 15 badges and 500 karma.

You’re going to pigeonhole the Thief into one style of gameplay in WvW.

can we backstab people while the revealed is on ? or sneak attack ?

Thieves who think they can’t do well without stealth have no clue how good Sword’s Infiltrator Strike + Shadow Return are.

A class that can always have a pocket teleport out + stunbreak + condition removal all on their weapon without any cooldown and at a low initiative cost. It’s amazingly good and why I have no clue why more thieves don’t use it … other than ignorance or personal taste.

I can’t fault the latter, but the former is abound.

[quote=2025265;Caom.9251:

No stealth for a thief is:

No burst for a thief
No defense for a thief
No escape for a thief

No other classes have traps specifically out there to render them useless, even if it is at a high cost.[/quote]

Dear ArenaNet:

30 seconds is too excessive. Eliminating a professions key source of defense for 30 seconds says “pay for this, and thieves will be easy.”

This trap destroys thief gameplay, it is not difficult to get, lasts for an hour, 1200 range and reveals for 30 seconds. No Thief, as a very fragile profession can possibly manage to go toe to toe with tougher opponents without stealth.

So for 30 seconds. A thief is forced to run. Or die. Running in combat = dead anyways, especially for professions with easy gap closers.

At the comment by Travlane that “most people use auto-targeting so heartseeker isn’t good mobility”…

… most “bad” players use it. Good players long ago understood that by turning it off, they could better leverage their skills the way they want. If someone wants to turn on something that restricts them, that is their choice, but it doesn’t diminish the viability of the skill.

Not sure how i feel about this, I think stealth needs a nerf..but 30 seconds? Ehh…. That’s a little long

Sebrent.3625:

At the comment by Travlane that “most people use auto-targeting so heartseeker isn’t good mobility”…

… most “bad” players use it. Good players long ago understood that by turning it off, they could better leverage their skills the way they want. If someone wants to turn on something that restricts them, that is their choice, but it doesn’t diminish the viability of the skill.

true alot of bad players use it and overuse it. i personally barely touch the skill. i think i have used it on more downed players to finish em off than when they are up. auto targeting is VERY usefull when playing a thief. other than that its a hindrance :P so is it better to have it on or off? depends on how good you are at targeting/how you ahve key binds setup i suppose.

Having the auto-targeting on or off is just a trade-off with real advantages and disadvantages to both. Which is better really depends on your build, how you play, and how you setup your UI. Saying a player is “bad” for setting it to one or the other is short-sighted – there’s more than one way to play effectively.

That said, a lot more people might run with it set off if the tab targeting mechanics were a lot smarter and/or had more customizable behavior.

Sebrent.3625:

Thieves who think they can’t do well without stealth have no clue how good Sword’s Infiltrator Strike + Shadow Return are.

A class that can always have a pocket teleport out + stunbreak + condition removal all on their weapon without any cooldown and at a low initiative cost. It’s amazingly good and why I have no clue why more thieves don’t use it … other than ignorance or personal taste.

I can’t fault the latter, but the former is abound.

The teleport is only 600 range. Return has no limits but to use that you have use something else to run.

The best defense we have is stealth, not IS. Sure, IS is a great ability but it is not the answer to 30s reveal.

Not even sure why you keep posting in these forums. You never have anything positive to add. All you do is qq.

Well, I for one think the anti-stealth traps are completely justified. After all, no one likes to fight people who can stealth.

On that same note: I don’t like fighting people who can wear armor either. Armor is such a nuisance; always robbing me of kills that I’d totally get in a fair fight. I think they should add a trap that removes all armor for 30 seconds. It won’t hurt that badly because players will still have plenty of mobility with skills / dodge rolls and they can always just run away for those 30 seconds. Warriors and Guardians would finally have to learn to play! Before making a new build, players would have to think: What will I do if I’m in combat and my pants fall off?

Travlane.5948:

Sebrent.3625:

At the comment by Travlane that “most people use auto-targeting so heartseeker isn’t good mobility”…

… most “bad” players use it. Good players long ago understood that by turning it off, they could better leverage their skills the way they want. If someone wants to turn on something that restricts them, that is their choice, but it doesn’t diminish the viability of the skill.

true alot of bad players use it and overuse it. i personally barely touch the skill. i think i have used it on more downed players to finish em off than when they are up. auto targeting is VERY usefull when playing a thief. other than that its a hindrance :P so is it better to have it on or off? depends on how good you are at targeting/how you ahve key binds setup i suppose.

There are some advantages to having it on, like when I know the person is offscreen and about to die, so I press heartseeker to finish them off, scenarios like that. But it does screw you over when you try to use heartseeker to run, but you auto target the group behind you, or the mob in front of you to your left causing you to go into combat slowing you down and you can tell Ive had my experiences lol.

How about a trap removing clones from mesmers, preventing warriors from gaining adrenline, disabled pet on ranger, and locking all the guardian virtues.

Yeah, this is pretty dumb. Why discriminate against such an important feature for a single class?

Just don’t play thief in WvW. 30s revealed, I laughed, then cried.

Good. Hope these are blanketed across the wvwvw maps. Maybe there’ll be something other than near perma-stealth glass cannon thieves everywhere.

Kain Francois.4328:

How about a trap removing clones from mesmers, preventing warriors from gaining adrenline, disabled pet on ranger, and locking all the guardian virtues.

Yeah, this is pretty dumb. Why discriminate against such an important feature for a single class?

Because the feature is hopelessly broken. There’s a reason that 30% of the forums are people complaining about thieves. It’s not that everyone who doesn’t play one sucks, it’s that having invisibility on demand has no place in a multiplayer game.

Were stealth actually, you know, stealth, wherein someone paying attention could see you, that’d be different. As it is, it’s broken. I’d have personally fixed it differently – changed it so that the name doesn’t show up when you hold CTRL, and the character model is 50% translucent, but I’ll take this. Probably 99% of all my deaths in wvw are from thieves. This is not a L2P situation, this is a game design issue.

Kain Francois.4328:

How about a trap removing clones from mesmers, preventing warriors from gaining adrenline, disabled pet on ranger, and locking all the guardian virtues.

Yeah, this is pretty dumb. Why discriminate against such an important feature for a single class?

How about because the traps don’t stop your ability to steal. I know this might be difficult to grasp but stealth is not a thief’s F# ability. It is not the thief’s equivalent to virtues, or adrenaline, or pet.

[sarcasm]“Use interupts, stuns, and CC man. Anticipate their impending use and counter with a supply stealing trap, man. L2p, man.”[/sarcasm]

*Quotations used due to thieves commonly falling back on CC and anticipating them as counters for stealth.

**For effect, read the sarcastic part while pretending to be a surfer with a slight mental condition that affects speech.

Now that thieves have to follow their own advice as a CCM (counter-counter measure), it will be interesting to see how well it works for them.

stale.9785:

Kain Francois.4328:

How about a trap removing clones from mesmers, preventing warriors from gaining adrenline, disabled pet on ranger, and locking all the guardian virtues.

Yeah, this is pretty dumb. Why discriminate against such an important feature for a single class?

Because the feature is hopelessly broken. There’s a reason that 30% of the forums are people complaining about thieves. It’s not that everyone who doesn’t play one sucks, it’s that having invisibility on demand has no place in a multiplayer game.

Were stealth actually, you know, stealth, wherein someone paying attention could see you, that’d be different. As it is, it’s broken. I’d have personally fixed it differently – changed it so that the name doesn’t show up when you hold CTRL, and the character model is 50% translucent, but I’ll take this. Probably 99% of all my deaths in wvw are from thieves. This is not a L2P situation, this is a game design issue.

if 99% of ur deaths are from thief…than that means ur class is OP agianst every other class. …. so bsically what u said is thieves are balanced and have a place. OR if thats not true than your class is overpowering by far. every class has another class that trumps it. always. thieves are bad against mesmers and guardians. guardians are bad at necros and whatever. point is we all have classes we are bad against. if thieves are so OP why does nobody grab thiefs in a zerg fight (outside of pre battle blast finish buffing)…… they just dont stack up well in big fights which is 90% of wvw. thieves are good at roaming.

you want a real 99% fact? heres one: 99% of all complaints against thieves are about roaming thieve’s.

heres another fact. roaming has little to nothing to do with wvw other than personal fun. :P

that said thief has very little effect on wvw.

Travlane.5948:

if thieves are so OP why does nobody grab thiefs in a zerg fight

And by that argument, if thieves are so kitten in WvW why are there so many in WvW? Thieves have no lack of representation in WvW in roaming or zerg warfare. I’ve seen more than a few thief commanders. We’ve got a few on my server as well as the servers we fight. If they’re so bad in zergs, why would I see thief commanders?

And I sure as heck see way more thieves in a zerg than I see Engineers.

Deamhan.9538:

I know this might be difficult to grasp but stealth is not a thief’s F# ability. It is not the thief’s equivalent to virtues, or adrenaline, or pet.

that sentence made no logical sense what-so-ever
there is no magic buttons in this game. Majority of escapes and cc are not related to the F buttons.
the rest of your little post carries no meaning

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Travlane.5948:

if thieves are so OP why does nobody grab thiefs in a zerg fight

And by that argument, if thieves are so kitten in WvW why are there so many in WvW? Thieves have no lack of representation in WvW in roaming or zerg warefare. I’ve seen more than a few thief commanders. We’ve got a few on my server as well as the servers we fight. If they’re so bad in zergs, why would I see thief commanders?

And I sure as heck see way more thieves in a zerg than I see Engineers.

thieves in wvw are played only for fun 90% of the time. i play thief as my main bc there is no monk in this game. when im in wvw on my thief …..9 out of 10 times im roaming. its fun. thats why. does it have any affect on score…guild….or server? nope. its fun tho. in zergs they run dagger storm if they survive long enough or just pre battle blast finishers which means they start each fight with 0 initiative :/.

idk about small servers but in big fights (as gw2 aimed for) its 50 v 50 to 130 v 130 ish. thieves have no chance in those. maybe in a smaller 15 v 15 or 20 v 20 a thief MAY squeeze in there and not get tripple targeted…. but generally the most important things to have are AOE necros healing eles KD warriors/stability/aegis/retal/guardians and mesmers for portal-anti range-clones -haste. even engies have good aoe! rangers have decent aoe and their pets soak up marks/dmg/targets.

@Serbent

Signet immunity requires 30 points in a traitline most Rangers hate.
Protect Me immunity requires the pet to stay alive … best with bear who is otherwise useless.
Neither immunity stops conditions.
Having both consumes 2 utility slots.

In the same manner your suggestion that thieves have Shadowstep and Roll for initiative would consume 2 of their utility slots. I was merely pointing out that the Ranger has the option to go immune via a utility slot, twice in a particular spec.

Stronger heals? You have one that rolls you backwards, evades, and heals you and is on a 15 second cooldown. You can even get several seconds of Vigor from it … achieving much closer to 100% vigor up-time than a Ranger due to the fact that your heal is on a much shorter cooldown.

And rangers have a heal that’s immediate benefit heals for a slightly superior value, is a water combo field, ticks regen, AND cleanses conditions. They have another that heals double what Withdrawal does for both the Ranger AND Pet, albeit over 10 seconds (not ideal for the situation that you described). Withdrawal is admittedly a better heal for the situation that you described, but since ranger has other escape options (Sword 2, lightning leap) and plenty of evades, the gap isn’t that big.

Protect Me immunity requires the pet to stay alive … best with bear who is otherwise useless.
Neither immunity stops conditions.

A thiefs immunity is contingent on it being added in an expansion or something, because it doesn’t currently exist.

As far as 3 evasion skills for S&D: you have evasion on sword, dagger, shortbow … and no cooldown so you only have to manage evasion

Please tell me you’re not pretending that D/D or Shortbow are viable options for “slip in, drop someone, slip out”. We both know the only weaponset that even has a chance is S/D. For S/D, FS currently chains to LS, meaning a thief can’t “dodge spam” like a Ranger potentially could. In a long term fight, thief has the edge (since FS has no CD), but since we’re talking about a short term “slip in and out” kind of fight, Rangers S/D having 3 useable skills (on short and further reduceable CD’s, I might add) has the edge there.

If you want to complain about “loads more CC” with pets…

My post was pretty clearly a comparison, not a complaint. I pointed out what aspects Ranger has over thief, and what aspects thief has over ranger – Ranger didn’t get a trap this patch that invalidated one of its defense mechanisms entirely, thief did. If they come out with a trap that despawns all pets AND locks them out for 30s, I’ll be pointing out how that’s a bit ludicrous too. And the specific phrase I used was “Slightly More”, not, “Loads”.

I’d rather dodge more, taking 0% damage from more attacks than dodge less and take 33% less damage from attacks for 2s.

Then roll a thief – your or my preferences don’t come into play here, I’m just pointing out things you left out when you made the comparison.

The fact that you think a Thief’s main advantage is damage shows me what level of play we’re talking about. Thief’s advantage is their ability to control a fight via their mobility and capability to adapt to a number of different builds using only a few different weapon skills. Stealth, when able to use it, is just icing on the cake that make it trivial for good thieves.

In the specific scenario you laid out, both the thief and the ranger Are using S/D (the only weaponset capable of the style of play you described for Thief). Again, in the slip in and out scenario you supplied, there won’t be alot of time to “Adapt to a number of different builds using only a few weaponskills” – you’ll be using evades to stay on target and unloading on it, in an attempt to down it and then escape.

Grab a sword for one of your weapon sets and learn the power of Infiltrator’s Strike + Shadow Return … the only weapon skill in the game that is a real stunbreaker and condition removal as well as a 1,200 range teleport (it actually works farther than that).

I specifically pointed out IS/SS as an advantage thief has over Ranger – seeing as I at no point in my original post claimed Ranger was better than a thief for this (I was merely pointing out each professions strengths relative to your scenario), it’s obvious I hold IS/SS in pretty high regard seeing as I matched it against a bunch of survivability and CC options for the ranger.

Reveal reverted from 4s to 3s…good news!!!
…..a few days after: Reveal Traps, for 30 Seconds our Traits, Tricks ARE USELESS!
RUN or DIE, is it a new metagame?

Dear ANet, if the abuse of Stealth is a problem fix the skills, fix the “Chainstealth”!
As P/D, S/D or D/D Thief I can’t chain CnD this is right, I’m disgusted from the Thief’s “Permastealthj” too, FIX the kitten D/P Combo “5-2” .Is the “ZergVeil” a problem? Fix the Veil Skill! But don’t remove our best defense for 30-thirty seconds!
You are removing the stealth from the game, you are removing this class and a style of play from the game.

P.S.
In the next patch will you give us a tombstone to pray for our thieves?

Brassnautilus.2941:

Deamhan.9538:

I know this might be difficult to grasp but stealth is not a thief’s F# ability. It is not the thief’s equivalent to virtues, or adrenaline, or pet.

that sentence made no logical sense what-so-ever
there is no magic buttons in this game. Majority of escapes and cc are not related to the F buttons.
the rest of your little post carries no meaning

Wow are you that dense? What the hell are you talking about “magic button”? I’d say puff puff pass but that kitten you are on is killing some serious brain cells. Listen, if you didn’t know what I meant by “F#”, you could’ve just asked.

They (the person I quoted in the previous post) asked about traps that can restrict/nullify other profession’s F# abilities. F# means F1, F2, F3, etc. These are the game’s default key bind. A necro toggles in and out of shadow form with F1. A mesmer shatters using F1, F2, and F3. Virtues are like signets, where the ‘active effect’ is used by pressing F1, F2 and F3. Ranger’s pets are commanded and swapped using F1, F2, F3 and F4. Thieves’ F1’s primary function is to steal and then use the item stolen.

So the only thing that makes no logical sense, is requesting traps that severally limit and/or disable other profession’s F# abilities because a thief’s stealth (which is not their F# ability) can now be hard countered by a trap.

Invulnerability
Lay trap
???
Profit

@Travlane

Oh Im by no means saying a thief is a zerg master. I was just pointing out that even this supposed uselessness of a thief in zerg warfare doesn’t seem to be discouraging thieves from participating in it. You said “Why aren’t the zergs snatching up thieves?” It seems they are to me haha.

I’ll admit, I dont zerg. I can certainly see how other classes outshine a thief in AoE zerg war, even an Engineer would shine in that setup and yet I don’t see them, but I’ll sure see thieves.

But just because you play yours for fun/roaming. I think the Thief commanders that I see probably play theirs for a slightly different reasons. But that’s cool. We all play our classes our way to have fun. I’m a roamer too, and I’ve often considered playing a thief since that’s what I do. I’m just too lazy to level another toon up.

thief is actually the worst leader as u are supposed to stay tight on the mark in mini map and on a full assault you follow the commander…..thief usually dies fast in frontal assault. plus the zip all over making it hard to follow. if a thief bought commander title…. pfft silly in my opinion. i see lots of warriors. the run hammer builds that are greta for knockdowns and blast finishers from the rear casters. u should see my guild BP or Tarnished coasts BT play. we have played 50 v 50s alot and in each one that we have played…..we didnt even have 1 downed player….thats pretty crazy if u think about it!!! not even 1 downed player. there are certain combos and ratios you need in a zerg to maxamize potential. i think we ran 3 thieves in our 50. blast finishers for the start and venom share a couple.

Deamhan.9538:

Brassnautilus.2941:

Deamhan.9538:

I know this might be difficult to grasp but stealth is not a thief’s F# ability. It is not the thief’s equivalent to virtues, or adrenaline, or pet.

that sentence made no logical sense what-so-ever
there is no magic buttons in this game. Majority of escapes and cc are not related to the F buttons.
the rest of your little post carries no meaning

Wow are you that dense? What the hell are you talking about “magic button”? I’d say puff puff pass but that kitten you are on is killing some serious brain cells. Listen, if you didn’t know what I meant by “F#”, you could’ve just asked.

They (the person I quoted in the previous post) asked about traps that can restrict/nullify other profession’s F# abilities. F# means F1, F2, F3, etc. These are the game’s default key bind. A necro toggles in and out of shadow form with F1. A mesmer shatters using F1, F2, and F3. Virtues are like signets, where the ‘active effect’ is used by pressing F1, F2 and F3. Ranger’s pets are commanded and swapped using F1, F2, F3 and F4. Thieves’ F1’s primary function is to steal and then use the item stolen.

So the only thing that makes no logical sense, is requesting traps that severally limit and/or disable other profession’s F# abilities because a thief’s stealth (which is not their F# ability) can now be hard countered by a trap.

The thief F# ability is to 1 steal and 2, use/benefit the stolen item. When stealing from another thief, the stolen item will allow the user to stealth. The trap is a hard counter to this F#.

Good try though.

So far I haven’t witnessed a single use of those traps in WvWvW. In fact nobody was even interested to visit that trap selling merchant.

The area of effect of the trap is really small, considering the price and time to set up the traps (15 badges = 15 silver, as 1 badge = 1 silver when buying siege). I guess nobody bothers and still buys arrow carts instead.

Thieves can continue to roam without any fear. At least here in EU tier #1.

Sifu.6527:

Deamhan.9538:

Brassnautilus.2941:

Deamhan.9538:

I know this might be difficult to grasp but stealth is not a thief’s F# ability. It is not the thief’s equivalent to virtues, or adrenaline, or pet.

that sentence made no logical sense what-so-ever
there is no magic buttons in this game. Majority of escapes and cc are not related to the F buttons.
the rest of your little post carries no meaning

Wow are you that dense? What the hell are you talking about “magic button”? I’d say puff puff pass but that kitten you are on is killing some serious brain cells. Listen, if you didn’t know what I meant by “F#”, you could’ve just asked.

They (the person I quoted in the previous post) asked about traps that can restrict/nullify other profession’s F# abilities. F# means F1, F2, F3, etc. These are the game’s default key bind. A necro toggles in and out of shadow form with F1. A mesmer shatters using F1, F2, and F3. Virtues are like signets, where the ‘active effect’ is used by pressing F1, F2 and F3. Ranger’s pets are commanded and swapped using F1, F2, F3 and F4. Thieves’ F1’s primary function is to steal and then use the item stolen.

So the only thing that makes no logical sense, is requesting traps that severally limit and/or disable other profession’s F# abilities because a thief’s stealth (which is not their F# ability) can now be hard countered by a trap.

The thief F# ability is to 1 steal and 2, use/benefit the stolen item. When stealing from another thief, the stolen item will allow the user to stealth. The trap is a hard counter to this F#.

Good try though.

Oh wow, talk about a stretch on that one. Sorry but if you follow the example of locking the pet, then that is on par with locking out the ability to steal or use any stolen items. Preventing say, wolf’s fear, is more in line with preventing the thief from using a particular stolen item. I don’t even know how it would compare to the other professions. Maybe with warrior it would prevent the use of F1 on just one weapon which is a far cry from allowing them to gain adrenaline. Or, prevent the use of a single virtue for guardians but doesn’t block the passive. This is a far cry from “locking all the guardian virtues”.

But please, grasp at some more straws while you’re already at it.

Deniara Devious.3948:

So far I haven’t witnessed a single use of those traps in WvWvW. In fact nobody was even interested to visit that trap selling merchant.

The area of effect of the trap is really small, considering the price and time to set up the traps (15 badges = 15 silver, as 1 badge = 1 silver when buying siege). I guess nobody bothers and still buys arrow carts instead.

Thieves can continue to roam without any fear. At least here in EU tier #1.

people are sheep. wait til somebody finds a good use….oh wait…i did. check out the video :P

I don’t play my thief in wvw, even though it is my main and favorite character, and from an rpg perspective a carryover from tabletop sessions twenty years ago. I’ve thought some about it, but felt it was too clearly underpowered as, due to its required traits and weapon abilities and not required but logically reasonable utilities all being dependent on a mechanic which can be countered by blind luck, and literally does nothing to benefit a thief untraited against any player unwilling to surrender from its psychological effect. So, I thought a lot about what to say. Something should be said, I thought, as initially I was unsettled by it, but why it concerns me is this: I recommended this game in good faith based on expectations that it would progress. There are some bugs. There are some balance issues. There is some problem with content-gating. None of that stopped me; I would insist to others to stay hopeful. Look at the good examples, I would say. Many issues and bugs have been fixed. Many more are in development! I wouldn’t say anti-stealth traps have killed my hope, but I have to say I’m disappointed. I hope I don’t have to say why.

I don’t believe these trap will have much of an effect on roaming Thieves
-They cost a lot (10 supply for a trap is 10 less supply for an Arrow Cart)
-Nobody is going to put one in the middle of nowhere, and they will all be next to castles
-Thieves can still escape with a shortbow. We still have the best mobility (or at least, one of the best) so even if you accidentally walk too close to a keep, you’re not gonna die

Of course, there will still be the odd chance that someone places a stealth trap in an open field, in which case that’s just a small risk. Right now our roaming is very safe so something like this is fine.

It’s implemented in a bit of an odd way, however, because it stops backstabs and stealth stuff. However this just means Thieves will have to retreat for 30 seconds then come in again.

Doesn’t really make any difference to me at all – and of course I’ll keep testing to see how big a difference it really makes in the long term.

As for the comment “people are sheep” – that’s what I see in this thread. No reasoning, no analysis of the problem, just a knee jerk response of “oh Thieves suck now”.

Edit: I’m a bit tempted to say this trap is our fault, but that would be a bit mean. For months, Thieves have been saying that since we should be allowed to get off scot-free when roaming in WvW (“noobs can’t counter stealth.etc.etc”), instead of admitting that even though Stealth is used for offense, it’s extremely potent at avoiding damage and just running away.

Now that an anti-stealth mechanic has finally been included and it has unfortunate side effects of affecting both our offense and defense, there isn’t really anything I can say

We have the best WvW defense mechanism in the game (stealth), so obviously when it gets nerfed, we will be affected. Instead of arguing that stealth is a stupid mechanic and we shouldn’t be tied to it (although there are some posters who recognize this, and they should be commended), everyone just said “l2 counter stealth”.

So this happened. Seems like the Thief community’s fault, huh?

Sunflowers.1729:

I don’t believe these trap will have much of an effect on roaming Thieves
-They cost a lot (10 supply for a trap is 10 less supply for an Arrow Cart)
-Nobody is going to put one in the middle of nowhere, and they will all be next to castles
-Thieves can still escape with a shortbow. We still have the best mobility (or at least, one of the best) so even if you accidentally walk too close to a keep, you’re not gonna die

Of course, there will still be the odd chance that someone places a stealth trap in an open field, in which case that’s just a small risk. Right now our roaming is very safe so something like this is fine.

It’s implemented in a bit of an odd way, however, because it stops backstabs and stealth stuff. However this just means Thieves will have to retreat for 30 seconds then come in again.

Doesn’t really make any difference to me at all – and of course I’ll keep testing to see how big a difference it really makes in the long term.

As for the comment “people are sheep” – that’s what I see in this thread. No reasoning, no analysis of the problem, just a knee jerk response of “oh Thieves suck now”.

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

funny as it sounds thieves will be hurt this most obviously but they will ALSO benefit the most from this. thief v thief is the hardest fight…… i ran into one in wvw a lil while ago ….beat him and recorded a fight….i used the trap while i was in shadow refuge and immediately when i showed up from invis ended it triggered as i was the bait. boom game over real quick. he had 21k hp.

roamers benefit most from this. in zergs you get veils stealthing them however thats benefits them most by giving a quick WOW watchout didnt see them get that close to me…..aka a 2 sec of response time is taken away…yes thats alot i guess but not like omg we lsot bc of veil. roamers will get hit hardest by this….and since thieves roam more bc thats more where they belong…they “MAY” find trouble fitting in now.

Deniara Devious.3948:

So far I haven’t witnessed a single use of those traps in WvWvW. In fact nobody was even interested to visit that trap selling merchant.

The area of effect of the trap is really small, considering the price and time to set up the traps (15 badges = 15 silver, as 1 badge = 1 silver when buying siege). I guess nobody bothers and still buys arrow carts instead.

Thieves can continue to roam without any fear. At least here in EU tier #1.

Of course roaming is fine, but what about us that actually play objectives, these traps are PERFECT for putting in front of gates and roads leading up to capture points. We will spend most of our time running away for revealed to finish than actually doing something useful. Don’t tell me a thief can survive without stealth..

And all a fellow thief need do is SR and put a trap down to make another useless. When a person see’s a thief coming towards them what they will do now is put a trap down. Just give it time. As if a thief would even go near them after that, causing most fights to be stale mates and each party just walking away… what a lame mechanic imo.

Travlane.5948:

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

.

If a Thief can’t recognize an obvious 4 second cast time and avoid the area, I don’t know what to say. Maybe he will die like if he played any other class.

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

.

If a Thief can’t recognize an obvious 4 second cast time and avoid the area, I don’t know what to say. Maybe he will die like if he played any other class.

oh no no no. u read it wrong man. i used the trap while under shadow refuge. couldnt see me use it at all. was already placed. no chance :P

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

.

If a Thief can’t recognize an obvious 4 second cast time and avoid the area, I don’t know what to say. Maybe he will die like if he played any other class.

oh no no no. u read it wrong man. i used the trap while under shadow refuge. couldnt see me use it at all. was already placed. no chance :P

So what if I’m not a Thief (or Mesmer, I suppose)? Against 3/4 of classes the setup of the stealth trap will be there for the Thief to see.

Besides, if the target is gonna die who cares if the Thief has a 30 second reveal? Not like a dead person cares whether the Thief is revealed or not.

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

.

If a Thief can’t recognize an obvious 4 second cast time and avoid the area, I don’t know what to say. Maybe he will die like if he played any other class.

oh no no no. u read it wrong man. i used the trap while under shadow refuge. couldnt see me use it at all. was already placed. no chance :P

So what if I’m not a Thief (or Mesmer, I suppose)? Against 3/4 of classes the setup of the stealth trap will be there for the Thief to see.

Besides, if the target is gonna die who cares if the Thief has a 30 second reveal? Not like a dead person cares whether the Thief is revealed or not.

im sorry i made a point about thieves using it in stealth and bc of that making it an auto win. i apologize again not trying to argue but im not following what you are meaning when you say " 3/4 of classes the setup of the stealth trap will be there for the thief to see." etc etc. can u plz try to explain this another way as i dont really see what ur saying.

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

you have a point about the supply in the middle of nowhere….but if they roamer that is attacked by a roaming thief is going to die and have to start from waypoint anyway….dont u think he would use it for a trap real quick?

.

If a Thief can’t recognize an obvious 4 second cast time and avoid the area, I don’t know what to say. Maybe he will die like if he played any other class.

oh no no no. u read it wrong man. i used the trap while under shadow refuge. couldnt see me use it at all. was already placed. no chance :P

So what if I’m not a Thief (or Mesmer, I suppose)? Against 3/4 of classes the setup of the stealth trap will be there for the Thief to see.

Besides, if the target is gonna die who cares if the Thief has a 30 second reveal? Not like a dead person cares whether the Thief is revealed or not.

im sorry i made a point about thieves using it in stealth and bc of that making it an auto win. i apologize again not trying to argue but im not following what you are meaning when you say " 3/4 of classes the setup of the stealth trap will be there for the thief to see." etc etc. can u plz try to explain this another way as i dont really see what ur saying.

For classes who cannot stealth, it will be immediately obvious what he or she is doing. Standing there for 4 seconds, without moving? Most likely setting up a trap.

All the Thief has to do is move the fight away from the location, and the enemy will have wasted a trap.

@sunflowers. lets pretend ur a ranger for a moment. you have 10supply+ stealth trap. you are alone and found a thief coming at you from afar starting invis. what would you do? try place trap? or pray you are better than the thief and fight to risk running aaaaaaaaaallll the way back if /when you die. if i were the ranger, i would personally use a quick invulnerability and drop a trap leaving 1 sec of free hitting. usually dodged. wasted a trap/10 supply but ur alive and theres a dead thief or running thief.

not just this scenario….but a thief can abuse it……….shadow refuge + set stealth trap wherever. nobody would know. amazing in thief v thief or thief v mes

Travlane.5948:

@sunflowers. lets pretend ur a ranger for a moment. you have 10supply+ stealth trap. you are alone and found a thief coming at you from afar starting invis. what would you do? try place trap? or pray you are better than the thief and fight to risk running aaaaaaaaaallll the way back if /when you die. if i were the ranger, i would personally use a quick invulnerability and drop a trap leaving 1 sec of free hitting. usually dodged. wasted a trap/10 supply but ur alive and theres a dead thief or running thief.

not just this scenario….but a thief can abuse it……….shadow refuge + set stealth trap wherever. nobody would know. amazing in thief v thief or thief v mes

If I am a Thief I will see that he is placing a trap and not fight him there. It’s like if someone runs to an supply camp I won’t fight him there either, because of all the guards.

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

@sunflowers. lets pretend ur a ranger for a moment. you have 10supply+ stealth trap. you are alone and found a thief coming at you from afar starting invis. what would you do? try place trap? or pray you are better than the thief and fight to risk running aaaaaaaaaallll the way back if /when you die. if i were the ranger, i would personally use a quick invulnerability and drop a trap leaving 1 sec of free hitting. usually dodged. wasted a trap/10 supply but ur alive and theres a dead thief or running thief.

not just this scenario….but a thief can abuse it……….shadow refuge + set stealth trap wherever. nobody would know. amazing in thief v thief or thief v mes

If I am a Thief I will see that he is placing a trap and not fight him there. It’s like if someone runs to an supply camp I won’t fight him there either, because of all the guards.

i fight people in supply camps but depends on build. anyway point is. IF YOU FIGHT….its a loss tothe thief and a WIN for whever placed it…..if they DONT fight you…you still win by not dying / waiting for backup. either way its auto win / auto life. its a game changer.

point of the game is not to run in a 1 v 1 ……or in a 5 v 5. its to fight.

I can’t stop laughing when I saw 30s reveal debuff.

I don’t know about you guys, but I think it’s time…it was fun while it lasted.

@ sir vincent. ill be carrying one everytime i roam…..its the “EASY WIN” button when i face a thief. i cant lose. lol.

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

@sunflowers. lets pretend ur a ranger for a moment. you have 10supply+ stealth trap. you are alone and found a thief coming at you from afar starting invis. what would you do? try place trap? or pray you are better than the thief and fight to risk running aaaaaaaaaallll the way back if /when you die. if i were the ranger, i would personally use a quick invulnerability and drop a trap leaving 1 sec of free hitting. usually dodged. wasted a trap/10 supply but ur alive and theres a dead thief or running thief.

not just this scenario….but a thief can abuse it……….shadow refuge + set stealth trap wherever. nobody would know. amazing in thief v thief or thief v mes

If I am a Thief I will see that he is placing a trap and not fight him there. It’s like if someone runs to an supply camp I won’t fight him there either, because of all the guards.

i fight people in supply camps but depends on build. anyway point is. IF YOU FIGHT….its a loss tothe thief and a WIN for whever placed it…..if they DONT fight you…you still win by not dying / waiting for backup. either way its auto win / auto life. its a game changer.

point of the game is not to run in a 1 v 1 ……or in a 5 v 5. its to fight.

Are you serious? Think what happens if they use the trap:

Roamer uses 10 supply
Thief chooses not to fight at that area
Roamer wastes 10 supply.

How does anyone not see this?

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

Sunflowers.1729:

Travlane.5948:

@sunflowers. lets pretend ur a ranger for a moment. you have 10supply+ stealth trap. you are alone and found a thief coming at you from afar starting invis. what would you do? try place trap? or pray you are better than the thief and fight to risk running aaaaaaaaaallll the way back if /when you die. if i were the ranger, i would personally use a quick invulnerability and drop a trap leaving 1 sec of free hitting. usually dodged. wasted a trap/10 supply but ur alive and theres a dead thief or running thief.

not just this scenario….but a thief can abuse it……….shadow refuge + set stealth trap wherever. nobody would know. amazing in thief v thief or thief v mes

If I am a Thief I will see that he is placing a trap and not fight him there. It’s like if someone runs to an supply camp I won’t fight him there either, because of all the guards.

i fight people in supply camps but depends on build. anyway point is. IF YOU FIGHT….its a loss tothe thief and a WIN for whever placed it…..if they DONT fight you…you still win by not dying / waiting for backup. either way its auto win / auto life. its a game changer.

point of the game is not to run in a 1 v 1 ……or in a 5 v 5. its to fight.

Are you serious? Think what happens if they use the trap:

Roamer uses 10 supply
Thief chooses not to fight at that area
Roamer wastes 10 supply.

How does anyone not see this?

Actually it’ll be a stalemate, while you’re all like “uh uh I ain’t goin over there”
They’ll be like “uh uh, I ain’t leavin here”
<.<
>.>

Honestly, with how this game is going with regards to

• skilled gameplay
• the community
• quality control (patch the patch to the patch to the patch to the other patch)
• hush-hush nature of ArenaNet (take hints from Blizzard, Red 5, Carbine, etc.)
• swinging changes to core parts of the game being evidence of bad design

I really don’t think I could care much less what happens with the traps and thieves. This game holds the record of any MMO for holding my attention for less than a year and actually losing my respect in the company.

This could potentially limit the effectiveness of my completely fraudulent thief, so I’m all for it. I think anything that exposes frauds is a good thing, generally speaking anyways.