Guild Wars 2

Warning: my laugh is dherpy as kitten

Funny thing is, my Unload didn’t do very much damage.

The build I use is in my Signature.

Utility
Pick Scorpion Wire – Condition removal, interrupt
Pick Roll for Initiave – Condition removal, stun break
Blinding Powder is good – stay

Traits
Pick Practice Tolerance – Ankle Shot is crap.
Pick Thrill of a Crime – Flanking Strikes is crap.
Pick Trickster – Bountiful Theft is good, but it’s not a condition removal.

I would go Deadly Arts instead of Shadow Arts only because Improvisation is a must for P/P in my opinion — and against a Guardian, 2x mace head crack is priceless.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Utility
Pick Scorpion Wire – Condition removal, interrupt
Pick Roll for Initiave – Condition removal, stun break
Blinding Powder is good – stay

Traits
Pick Practice Tolerance – Ankle Shot is crap.
Pick Thrill of a Crime – Flanking Strikes is crap.
Pick Trickster – Bountiful Theft is good, but it’s not a condition removal.

I would go Deadly Arts instead of Shadow Arts only because Improvisation is a must for P/P in my opinion — and against a Guardian, 2x mace head crack is priceless.

Agree on Ankle Shot, Pick Practice Tolerance.

I don’t agree on Thrill of a Crime over Flanking Strikes on p/p tho,
using Basilisk Venom → Unload → Steal → Unload you can Kill your foe before they can move because of Haste and Stun.
If build intended for long fights or more than 1v1 then yeah, pick Thrill of a Crime.

Also Trickster is a must if using Flanking Strikes as Haste is a Trick, meaning it will have lower cooldown + condition removal.

I laughed

El Psy Congroo.7965:

I don’t agree on Thrill of a Crime over Flanking Strikes on p/p tho,
using Basilisk Venom -> Unload -> Steal -> Unload you can Kill your foe before they can move because of Haste and Stun.
If build intended for long fights or more than 1v1 then yeah, pick Thrill of a Crime.

Any P/P fights are prolonged. Even with Haste, you cannot Unload fast enough to kill anyone…that’s just a theory that looks good on paper. Unload has a pre-cast and after-cast delay problem.

Besides, they can break and dodge at any time — what would you then?

I’m giving the OP alternatives rather than being a one-trick-pony.

Also Trickster is a must if using Flanking Strikes as Haste is a Trick, meaning it will have lower cooldown + condition removal.

Flanking Strikes is a horrible trait. You have a better chance of quickness by picking Haste as your utility and trait for Improvisation. You get 2 chances of resetting it before it goes off CD instead of waiting for the full CD.

Poor Guardian. I was messing around with a build like that recently when I realized No Quarter gave permafury. Haven’t tried it in pvp though. I miss Ricochet too much and wanna pew pew down zergs again.

BTW If a +1 class +1s off another +1 does it actually = only 1 Thief?

Doggie.3184:

BTW If a +1 class +1s off another +1 does it actually = only 1 Thief?

Thief is equals to 0, so if a Thief +1 a Warrior, it is +1 because Warrior is 1 and Thief is 0.

If a Thief +1 another Thief, that would either be 1 or 0.

Thus, it’s inconclusive.

Hopefully Anet will balance their game after HoT is released.

As it is right now it’s even more unbalanced than how it was at release.

P/P is actually one of the weakest builds at top tier when considering theif builds.

SlayerSixx.5763:

P/P is actually one of the weakest builds at top tier when considering theif builds.

I can’t think of a weapon set weaker than or equal to P/P.

The only reason we’re putting up with it is because we have no other choice.

P/P may be weak for 1v1 duels but in larger fights it is very strong as seen in the video. From the playing I’ve done in wvw groups, nobody lives long when I pop in and unload 3 times in a row while they’re busy with someone else.

it also requires a heck of a lot less setup to pull off compared to something like backstab.

vespers.1759:

P/P may be weak for 1v1 duels but in larger fights it is very strong as seen in the video. From the playing I’ve done in wvw groups, nobody lives long when I pop in and unload 3 times in a row while they’re busy with someone else.

You can do way better with S/P with that playstyle.

When ArenaNet nerfed Opportunist…P/P started dying…then Dual-wielding, Pistol Mastery, and Ricochet disappeared…P/P just died. Left rotting in the dumps with no Dev to care for it.

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

it also requires a heck of a lot less setup to pull off compared to something like backstab.

Backstab costs zero Initiative, Unload x3 costs 15 initiatives. Basically you get what you paid for — it would suck even more if you didn’t kill anyone. However, S/P can do more damage with less setup and less Initiative.

Do you both have bronze ranks and was one of you a S/D and the other D/X? Then you’ve met me today

Jana.6831:

Do you both have bronze ranks and was one of you a S/D and the other D/X? Then you’ve met me today

Not me. I don’t play before 6pm PST.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jana.6831:

Do you both have bronze ranks and was one of you a S/D and the other D/X? Then you’ve met me today

Not me. I don’t play before 6pm PST.

No, I meant the OP.
And yeah we met.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

vespers.1759:

P/P may be weak for 1v1 duels but in larger fights it is very strong as seen in the video. From the playing I’ve done in wvw groups, nobody lives long when I pop in and unload 3 times in a row while they’re busy with someone else.

You can do way better with S/P with that playstyle.

When ArenaNet nerfed Opportunist…P/P started dying…then Dual-wielding, Pistol Mastery, and Ricochet disappeared…P/P just died. Left rotting in the dumps with no Dev to care for it.

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

it also requires a heck of a lot less setup to pull off compared to something like backstab.

Backstab costs zero Initiative, Unload x3 costs 15 initiatives. Basically you get what you paid for — it would suck even more if you didn’t kill anyone. However, S/P can do more damage with less setup and less Initiative.

Easier than standing at 900 range and pushing 3? BRB buying sword haha

Jana.6831:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jana.6831:

Do you both have bronze ranks and was one of you a S/D and the other D/X? Then you’ve met me today

Not me. I don’t play before 6pm PST.

No, I meant the OP.
And yeah we met.

lol yeah, not yet today though.

vespers.1759:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Backstab costs zero Initiative, Unload x3 costs 15 initiatives. Basically you get what you paid for — it would suck even more if you didn’t kill anyone. However, S/P can do more damage with less setup and less Initiative.

Easier than standing at 900 range and pushing 3? BRB buying sword haha

Yes, because you daze them as part of the skill so they can’t dodge….they have to waste stun break first. Unloading at 900 can be obstructed or dodged — you’re relying on being lucky that your target aren’t paying attention — that say much about the weapon set…it requires additional help to be effective.

EDIT: In addition, if I’m using S/P and I saw you Unloading at me, you’d be dead without even finishing your first Unload.

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range?

No, that means “got your back, buddy”

Jana.6831:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range?

No, that means “got your back, buddy”

4 Pistols is our equip type for this build, so those two thieves count as one…. :|

Quad-wielding is a baseline buff that they added to the thief last patch but just didn’t document it.

Zero Day.2594:

4 Pistols is our equip type for this build, so those two thieves count as one…. :|

You forgot about thieves guild – the OP did as well…

Edit: Although they’re playing their +1 role just fine and did so when we fought each other as well – can’t remember whether I died or popped SR in the last second.

Edit²: And before this sounds salty; it isn’t meant like that – they honestly confused me because I had the S/D nearly down but all of the sudden I got a huge damage in and had no idea where it came from and when I looked up the incoming damage it was a backstab – and both of them have the same rank, so .. I was confused

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Jana.6831:

…
Edit: Although they’re playing their +1 role just fine and did so when we fought each other as well – can’t remember whether I died or popped SR in the last second.
…

So if two +1’s are +1’ing each other, does that mean, that they’re 1? Or is it +2?

wtf I go afk from the forums for a few hours and now we’re discussing Pythagorean Theories and playing number games.

Yeah I was me and my buddy, Jana – I suck at S/D pretty hard. Luckbox was using D/P so that’s where the backstab came from.

I was using an offensive varient of my usual Gunslinger build that can deal with conditions a little better at the loss of Shadow Refuge to reset the fight.

P/P is actually pretty decent in 1v1’s, contrary to popular belief. You fight with D/P and whenever there is a distance between you and the enemy, switch to P/P and start Unloading. It usually forces them to use dodgerolls or defensive skills whilst trying to close the gap with skills. It’s a good way to draw out cooldowns. Also, if you can ever open with P/P you can pull extreme cheese and instant kill someone.

Basi venom → Stealth with D/P → Weapon Swap → Sneak Attack → Unload + Steal → Unloadx5milliontimes.

Daze on steal usually secures the kill because they can’t cast kitten all other than dodge, but they usually can’t do that because they’re still partially basi venomed. This has caused me to win fights straight off the bat.

I’d say P/P Unload is much better than S/P Pistol Whip, purely because S/P is hard to hit without using a gapcloser like Steal or Inf Signet. The Stun/Evade frames are nice but not worth the cooldowns or effort + Unload hits harder than Pistol Whip and has range.

To be fair, both are pretty good skills and it’s a close call.

vespers.1759:

P/P may be weak for 1v1 duels but in larger fights it is very strong as seen in the video. From the playing I’ve done in wvw groups, nobody lives long when I pop in and unload 3 times in a row while they’re busy with someone else.

it also requires a heck of a lot less setup to pull off compared to something like backstab.

That’s because Thief is a +1 class. It’s the whole point. :[

All other classes are also +1 to +4 though.

meepeY.2867:

wtf I go afk from the forums for a few hours and now we’re discussing Pythagorean Theories and playing number games.

Yeah I was me and my buddy, Jana – I suck at S/D pretty hard. Luckbox was using D/P so that’s where the backstab came from.

Took me a while but I figured you were two persons – I was the thief standing in veloka starring at you. Spiteful of course (no).

Anyway; Zero, you’re right 2 thieves in a team count barely as one so they should have a combined range of ~1800 – now if you add thieves guild to that which has at least one P/P thief, then things might become a bit complicated.

SlayerSixx.5763:

P/P is actually one of the weakest builds at top tier when considering theif builds.

No one ever claimed it was strong. But it’s kitten funny and since teefs are the court jesters for the real classes, being funny is all we can get out of the game right now.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

MarauderShields.6830:

SlayerSixx.5763:

P/P is actually one of the weakest builds at top tier when considering theif builds.

No one ever claimed it was strong. But it’s kitten funny and since teefs are the court jesters for the real classes, being funny is all we can get out of the game right now.

Idk man, I find my thief still going strong :P.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

But you’re talking about “one thief stands 900 units infront of the other” and I’m telling you, if that “other” is standing on a pebble, the difference in elevation negates the range — in my case, my range was reduced to zero just because my target was slightly on a higher ground.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

But you’re talking about “one thief stands 900 units infront of the other” and I’m telling you, if that “other” is standing on a pebble, the difference in elevation negates the range — in my case, my range was reduced to zero just because my target was slightly on a higher ground.

Ah I see now, it’s very undependable. Gotta remove P/P/P/P.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

But you’re talking about “one thief stands 900 units infront of the other” and I’m telling you, if that “other” is standing on a pebble, the difference in elevation negates the range — in my case, my range was reduced to zero just because my target was slightly on a higher ground.

Ah I see now, it’s very undependable. Gotta remove P/P/P/P.

or the pebbles…

I’m sorry I’ve been lurking this thread for a bit but wtf is going on now? I see Pythagorean theorem being thrown around, the engineer forums are over there.

But teefs need to know their vectors for more shadow step rek.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

But you’re talking about “one thief stands 900 units infront of the other” and I’m telling you, if that “other” is standing on a pebble, the difference in elevation negates the range — in my case, my range was reduced to zero just because my target was slightly on a higher ground.

Ah I see now, it’s very undependable. Gotta remove P/P/P/P.

or the pebbles…

If you nerf the pebbles that can have potential unwanted effects on other classes. Like for instance: hiding behind a pebble while fighting a thief would no longer grant LoS against the thief.

Better keep it limited to thief only and balance it properly.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… If one thief stands 900 units infront of the other… and uses their pistols to shoot something that’s 900 units away… Does that mean that we effectively have 1800 range on 4 pistols?

If it’s on a straight line, yes. If not, we need to use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the effective range since it can be anywhere between 0 and 1800 range.

Sweet mother of god… variable distance. Too RNG, what if it’s angled and hit’s a walking by moa? This should be removed/nerfed from the game promptly.

Trigonometry doesn’t work on P/P.

It’s just last night, I can’t hit my target standing on a pebble in front of me — wasted like 2x Unload without the target taking damage. I have to reposition all the time or find an even surface so I can hit it — it’s really frustrating.

The build in question is P/P/P/P, which enables trigonometry.

But you’re talking about “one thief stands 900 units infront of the other” and I’m telling you, if that “other” is standing on a pebble, the difference in elevation negates the range — in my case, my range was reduced to zero just because my target was slightly on a higher ground.

Ah I see now, it’s very undependable. Gotta remove P/P/P/P.

or the pebbles…

If you nerf the pebbles that can have potential unwanted effects on other classes. Like for instance: hiding behind a pebble while fighting a thief would no longer grant LoS against the thief.

Better keep it limited to thief only and balance it properly.

Well if instead, what if a thief is standing perpendicular to the other so that they can triangulate their target, thus effectively reducing their range but eliminating LoS altogether. I think that is better than having 4 pistols or 1200/1800 range.

Besides, what is the use of range if they are hiding behind a pebble?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

Pretty sure since he effectively murdered p/p he’s the prophesied antichrist of p/p.

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

Pretty sure since he effectively murdered p/p he’s the prophesied antichrist of p/p.

There was a prophecy…?

Zero Day.2594:

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

Pretty sure since he effectively murdered p/p he’s the prophesied antichrist of p/p.

There was a prophecy…?

If it was in Equilibrium then it probably has something to do with exploding at street level.

Anyways, it’s still trig if the opponent is standing on a pebble, it’s just in a different axis. An axis with a logarithmic scale so 1 pebble = 10k range, which is why Vincent missed.

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Zero Day.2594:

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

Pretty sure since he effectively murdered p/p he’s the prophesied antichrist of p/p.

There was a prophecy…?

If it was in Equilibrium then it probably has something to do with exploding at street level.

Anyways, it’s still trig if the opponent is standing on a pebble, it’s just in a different axis. An axis with a logarithmic scale so 1 pebble = 10k range, which is why Vincent missed.

That would explain it if the hitbox is smaller than the pebble, so when scaled proportionately (or zoomed in closer) we’ll see that relative to the size of the hitbox, the pebble is 10k range high. This seems to be the case here.

Zero Day.2594:

CuteLilKittenHugz.2064:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Let’s see if Karl is the prophesied savior of P/P.

Pretty sure since he effectively murdered p/p he’s the prophesied antichrist of p/p.

There was a prophecy…?

Yes, Flameseeker Prophesies. Not the flameseeker from GW1, but the flameseeker carrying torches and pitchforks.