5 sec weaponswap trait

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Cyhann.2609

Cyhann.2609

Since it’s my favorite trait on the Warrior, I thought about it for a while, and
I still have no Idea why. Would it be OP on a thief? Swaping between weapons
quickly would fit the thief theme after all, and you can also justify it with the
fact, that Iniative is shared on both weaponsets. On weaponswap sigils have
an ICD anyway, and you could simply add one to Quick Pockets, or even better
make it the alternative Grand Master trait in the Acrobatics tree, since Hard to
Catch isn’t anything useworthy.

But well what do I know, I’m just your regular player, how about you? Would you
like it? Would you use it? Is it OP?

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

I feel it makes sense for the thief – since Init is shared between weaponsets, it would give the thief some flexibility without being broken.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: JETWING.2759

JETWING.2759

No sense.

Warrior is weapon master, thief isn’t.
-5s cd in weapon swap make thieves ridiculously op.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

No sense.

-5s cd in weapon swap make thieves ridiculously op.

…How?

Assuming you put an ICD on quick pockets (which would be OP with no ICD, and OP specifically mentioned a quick pockets ICD), how is this OP for thief? it’s not like they can take advantage of quick CD’s, since they work on the init system – it just makes thief more flexible. The word “flexible” to me, fits thief very well.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Master of Timespace.2548

Master of Timespace.2548

Probably not op if its a trait thats not achieved too easily.

? <(^-^><)>^-^)> <(^-^)> ?

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Cyhann.2609

Cyhann.2609

No sense.

Warrior is weapon master, thief isn’t.
-5s cd in weapon swap make thieves ridiculously op.

And the thief is the stealthy sneaky tricky guy.
How would it be OP? If something it would encourage thieves to play a little
less in the “spamming” manner, and more in a versatile way. And it might encourage
more different weaponset combos, instead of the popular `something´/shortbow.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

Put it on quick pockets and reduce the initiative given back to 2?

Blank Players [BDL]-Anvil Rock
Maugen Rawr- Thief/Ele
Rebalance Ideas for Thief

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Zacchary.6183

Zacchary.6183

No sense.

Warrior is weapon master, thief isn’t.
-5s cd in weapon swap make thieves ridiculously op vs me.

fixed*

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Doggie.3184

Doggie.3184

Thieves are the masters of all weapons in reality. They just have amnesia currently.
They need to remember their Assassin roots.

| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. |
Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.”
“Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: RedSpectrum.1975

RedSpectrum.1975

Thieves are the masters of all weapons in reality. They just have amnesia currently.
They need to remember their Assassin roots.

“The bullet goes..here right?”
“No, it goes here in the loading chamber, for the third time.”
“Right and I point and shoot -shoots rifle-”
“WTF MY LEG SUNOVA-”
“Well I still know how to pull a trigger, can we try the axe next?”

Shawtell, Zen Verani, Rayshia Howen, Iyado, Colace Nzoir, Arteel Fyrien [Teef]

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Kaon.7192

Kaon.7192

I’ve wanted something like this for quite a while.
Not just for Thief but for most other classes too. 5s cooldown on weapon swap would make combat a lot more enjoyable from the added flexibility.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Seras.5702

Seras.5702

I like it, and agree that the shared initiative would prevent any OPness.

And it might open up more weapon set combos, as opposed to the x/x + SB that nearly everyone runs. If you knew you could reliably combo one set into a couple skills in another set, and then back again, it could broaden the class.

Also, with new weapons and skills coming, this could have some amazing potential.

Flixx Gatebuster, Orwynn Lightgrave, Seras Snapdragon
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

No sense.

Warrior is weapon master, thief isn’t.

Just to belabor the point, Warrior is the weapon master – that’s why they can use almost every weapon in the game. Thief is the mobile/quick trickster class and thematically, being able to rapidly swap between weapons fits them much better than it does warrior.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: nagymbear.5280

nagymbear.5280

I feel it makes sense for the thief – since Init is shared between weaponsets, it would give the thief some flexibility without being broken.

How would it give flexibility to thieves? You would still be bound by initiative, and the fact that you can only have 2 weaponsets.

And it might open up more weapon set combos, as opposed to the x/x + SB that nearly everyone runs.

Sooo… following your logic, people use SB on thief because of the weapon swap cooldown? Does not compute.

Khert Devileyes – Ranger / Mano Negra – Thief / Nagymbear – Warrior /
Elona Bonechill – Necro / Fionna Gymirdottier – Guard /// RoF

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Seras.5702

Seras.5702

And it might open up more weapon set combos, as opposed to the x/x + SB that nearly everyone runs.

Sooo… following your logic, people use SB on thief because of the weapon swap cooldown? Does not compute.

No, people use the SB because of its great utility and synergy with all build types. However, if you had the ability to weapon swap more frequently (and especially with the upcoming additions to available weapons), there could be greater potential for other weapon set combinations that gel. I’ve heard arguments about how skill x doesn’t fit in that set and it’d be better on weapon y. Or that I wish skill z were on a weapon q instead.

Flixx Gatebuster, Orwynn Lightgrave, Seras Snapdragon
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

I feel it makes sense for the thief – since Init is shared between weaponsets, it would give the thief some flexibility without being broken.

How would it give flexibility to thieves? You would still be bound by initiative, and the fact that you can only have 2 weaponsets.

1)-S/D Shbow – I really need to poison this warrior, but Shbow doesn’t do enough damage to overpower HS + AH – Now I can switch to Shbow for a mere 5s to get some poison/weakness on my target, then switch back to a set that does damage to maintain pressure.

2) -S/X D/X – I’m in stealth and I want to deal some burst, but dagger is less then optimal for the fight after I get out of stealth – 4 less seconds I’m stuck in a suboptimal weaponset.

3) -P/P whatever melee set – P/P until my opponent closes the gap, switch to melee for minor burst/whatever, open a gap and switch back to P/P

I could keep going, but you get the idea.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Seras.5702

Seras.5702

1)-S/D Shbow – I really need to poison this warrior, but Shbow doesn’t do enough damage to overpower HS + AH – Now I can switch to Shbow for a mere 5s to get some poison/weakness on my target, then switch back to a set that does damage to maintain pressure.

2) -S/X D/X – I’m in stealth and I want to deal some burst, but dagger is less then optimal for the fight after I get out of stealth – 4 less seconds I’m stuck in a suboptimal weaponset.

3) -P/P whatever melee set – P/P until my opponent closes the gap, switch to melee for minor burst/whatever, open a gap and switch back to P/P

I could keep going, but you get the idea.

Great examples. #2 would alleviate something that frustrates me in PvE. I’m using S/X and when I stealth I can’t spike like I cold with another set, but don’t want to swap and get stuck without my sword.

Flixx Gatebuster, Orwynn Lightgrave, Seras Snapdragon
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Cyhann.2609

Cyhann.2609

However, if you had the ability to weapon swap more frequently (and especially with the upcoming additions to available weapons), there could be greater potential for other weapon set combinations that gel. I’ve heard arguments about how skill x doesn’t fit in that set and it’d be better on weapon y. Or that I wish skill z were on a weapon q instead.

That’s the main reason why I made this thread. Lately i’m testing p/p as my secundary
set, but there are a couple of situations where you shouldn’t use any pistol skills, or
at least can’t shouldn’t do dmg with unload. (Projectile reflection and retaliation)
And the set’s aa is useless, so if you don’t have any ini left you can’t do even some
kind of basic dmg. And you would be able to combine some finishers more reliable.

It could also maybe make the d/d p/d condi combo more usefull, since d/p is a
close/range hybrid weaponset. And stuff like that.

And don’t forget, that most importantly it would demote simple one skill spamming
and might raise the skillfloor a little.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: JETWING.2759

JETWING.2759

No sense.

Warrior is weapon master, thief isn’t.

Just to belabor the point, Warrior is the weapon master – that’s why they can use almost every weapon in the game. Thief is the mobile/quick trickster class and thematically, being able to rapidly swap between weapons fits them much better than it does warrior.

I don’t think
Warrior is a soldier class. He trained how use weapons, thief don’t
Trick and Improvisation =/= Study and Preparation.
- Here in Brasil, a bandit just aim his rifle against a police and shoots until bullets ends. He shoots randomly hoping hit, while the police needs few shoots to hit
While the police just swap to pistol without leave the rifle behind (hold with sling), a bandit drops his rifle because lacks discipline He just think in escape alive.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: nagymbear.5280

nagymbear.5280

Seems to me that a 5 second cooldown on weaponswap wouldn’t make thief more flexible, only more powerful. You should be able to run around with s/x d/x as is. Thieves have one of the best mobility, have access to evades, dodges, blinds, teleports, stealth, high damage. They don’t need to be stronger. Its other classes that need a toning down. Thieves and rangers are great at certain scenarios, and bad at others. This is what other classes/builds need as well.

Khert Devileyes – Ranger / Mano Negra – Thief / Nagymbear – Warrior /
Elona Bonechill – Necro / Fionna Gymirdottier – Guard /// RoF

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Seras.5702

Seras.5702

I don’t think
Warrior is a soldier class. He trained how use weapons, thief don’t
Trick and Improvisation =/= Study and Preparation.
- Here in Brasil, a bandit just aim his rifle against a police and shoots until bullets ends. He shoots randomly hoping hit, while the police needs few shoots to hit
While the police just swap to pistol without leave the rifle behind (hold with sling), a bandit drops his rifle because lacks discipline He just think in escape alive.

Did you just compare the thief class to simple criminals and street thugs? Cuz that’s just an awful comparrison.

I’m thinking thieves are more like ninjas. Silent, stealthy warriors who train all their lives and hone their body into a weapon. A true student of the mind and body. Not a meer petty street criminal, but an assassin a precision instrument. To think that they couldn’t utilize their speed and dexterity to swap weapons quickly is ridiculous.

Warriors are brutish, hard hitting, in-your-face fighters who don’t flinch. They can pick up any weapon and use it due to their innate fighting ablity and strength. Where knowledge may be lacking, sheer will overcomes.

Flixx Gatebuster, Orwynn Lightgrave, Seras Snapdragon
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Redscope.6215

Redscope.6215

How would this be OP? One word: Initiative.

Everyone is forced to use weapons that match their build in both sets because the 2-5 skills have cooldowns that would simply put you at a disadvantage to wait for. Classes swap weapons to gain the ability to keep using ‘power’ skills. Thieves have the advantage of taking one or two weapons in a set as complete utiilty since, assuming they have the initiative, any weapon skill can be used at any time. And assuming they have enough initiative, any thief weapon skill can be used more than once (with the exception of stealth skills for the obvious reason…but still not cooldown related).

IMO, the thief should have been the only class who could not swap weapons because of how initiative works. He should have had a skill in place of ‘swap’ that allowed him to regain some initiative on a longer cooldown.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Seras.5702

Seras.5702

How would this be OP? One word: Initiative.

Everyone is forced to use weapons that match their build in both sets because the 2-5 skills have cooldowns that would simply put you at a disadvantage to wait for. Classes swap weapons to gain the ability to keep using ‘power’ skills. Thieves have the advantage of taking one or two weapons in a set as complete utiilty since, assuming they have the initiative, any weapon skill can be used at any time. And assuming they have enough initiative, any thief weapon skill can be used more than once (with the exception of stealth skills for the obvious reason…but still not cooldown related).

IMO, the thief should have been the only class who could not swap weapons because of how initiative works. He should have had a skill in place of ‘swap’ that allowed him to regain some initiative on a longer cooldown.

Note bolded text above. This is exactly why fast weapon swapping works better for thief than any other class. None of our weapon skills have cooldowns, but are instead limited by our initiative pool. Which means that whether we have 5 weapons skills or 10 (or 50 or 100) we still can only use them as often as we have the initiative to pay for them. Blow all your initiative on 1 weapon set, swap, and you’ve got nothing for the other set. Have to plan accordingly.

Flixx Gatebuster, Orwynn Lightgrave, Seras Snapdragon
[TTBH] [HATE], Yak’s Bend(NA)

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Dee Jay.2460

Dee Jay.2460

No sense.

Warrior is weapon master, thief isn’t.
-5s cd in weapon swap make thieves ridiculously op.

And the thief is the stealthy sneaky tricky guy.
How would it be OP? If something it would encourage thieves to play a little
less in the “spamming” manner, and more in a versatile way. And it might encourage
more different weaponset combos, instead of the popular `something´/shortbow.

I agree,

I’d argue that due to Initiative such a trait would be far less potent on a Thief than other classes who actually get a real, tangible benefit from it.

I’m not entirely sure I’d use it myself since Thieves have rather poor cross-weapon synergy but the option would be nice.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: nagymbear.5280

nagymbear.5280

Here’s my concern. Thieves could enjoy all the positives of both dagger and pistol offhand, and would have the chance to swap rather frequently. If they would run those sets as they are now, they would need to plan ahead, and would be kept in check by the weaponswap cooldown. If they had a 5 second weaponswap cooldown, there would be no control over what they can do. And all that initiative pool talk is nonsense. If you have problems with managing your initiative, you won’t benefit from the shorter weaponswap. If you can manage it, it would be a massive boost.

Khert Devileyes – Ranger / Mano Negra – Thief / Nagymbear – Warrior /
Elona Bonechill – Necro / Fionna Gymirdottier – Guard /// RoF

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Buzzcrave.6197

Buzzcrave.6197

Might as well give stealth to Warrior, oh while we’re at it make everyone able to use clones and minions as well. Lets all play the same class with every single trait and skill available.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Maugetarr.6823

Maugetarr.6823

Might as well give stealth to Warrior, oh while we’re at it make everyone able to use clones and minions as well. Lets all play the same class with every single trait and skill available.

Uh, were talking about how you might implement a warrior 15 point trait into a grandmaster slot. You know, sort of like how warriors can deal +20% damage as an adept trait while they’re under 50% health. Maybe you’d like the comparison of signet cooldown traits instead. Warriors seem like fair comparisons to thieves since they fill similar roles as front line combatants just in different ways. Were not asking to be given adrenaline or burst skills, just to maybe have a trait reworked into a mechanism similar to a warrior trait so that it becomes more useful than just switching between 2 of the same weapon sets for the initiative gain.

Blank Players [BDL]-Anvil Rock
Maugen Rawr- Thief/Ele
Rebalance Ideas for Thief

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: JETWING.2759

JETWING.2759

5s weapon swap is an advantage exclusive of warriors, that could be granted for free, without spend trait points.

Thieves could chain insane combos without significative CD, if swap weapon every 5s.

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Cyhann.2609

Cyhann.2609

Thieves could chain insane combos without significative CD, if swap weapon every 5s.

For example?

5 sec weaponswap trait

in Thief

Posted by: Kaon.7192

Kaon.7192

5s weapon swap is an advantage exclusive of warriors, that could be granted for free, without spend trait points.

Thieves could chain insane combos without significative CD, if swap weapon every 5s.

We share the same initiative bar between weapons. There is no tangible difference between using a skill on one weapon and chaining it with another vs chaining two skills on the same weapon.

We are expending the same amount of resources either way. The only difference that a 5 second weaponswap cooldown would bring is the added flexibility of being able to choose to spend resources on the other weapon sooner.

Only with CD based weapon skills does it become a tangible advantage, since some cooldowns on weapon skills fall below 9 seconds, meaning you can activate them more often if weaponswap CD was lower. This is why the Arcane tree that shortens Attunement swap cooldown is so important for Elementalists.

(edited by Kaon.7192)