Guild Wars 2

Well ArenaNet just posted up some general information for their upcoming Sky Pirates content arc for their Living Story. Amongst that page, they included a link to a blog entry about the upcoming Skill & Trait Revamp.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

Based on the information towards the bottom of the page, Thief and Mesmer will be getting access to a new condition called Torment. From the little information provided, the condition does a minimal amount of damage per tick and also triggers bonus damage whenever the target moves.

While we don’t know how ArenaNet has changed or combined Skills / Traits, I have to admit that I’m kind of interested to see how viable Torment is. For PvE soloing, I can see it going great in a kiting build. Also it should excel in the mobile environments of WvW and PvP. The only issue that I’m seeing with Torment is that it might be worthless in group PvE since it’s much harder to control whether or not a mob is moving around.

Does anyone else have any thoughts or ideas about Torment?

The return of shameful fear!

Thief with Torment is kittened. I can see it so much.

On the plus side, I am definitely going to combine torment into my bleedy build. I shall name it…. the tormenty and bleedy build.

I know it won’t happen in a million years, but if Torment was attached to Caltrops I would laugh and laugh and laugh.

Sounds promising, though. Will have to see how it plays out.

Auesis.7301:

I know it won’t happen in a million years, but if Torment was attached to Caltrops I would laugh and laugh and laugh.

Sounds promising, though. Will have to see how it plays out.

Oh god please let this happen. I will love anet again.

Zacchary.6183:

Auesis.7301:

I know it won’t happen in a million years, but if Torment was attached to Caltrops I would laugh and laugh and laugh.

Sounds promising, though. Will have to see how it plays out.

Oh god please let this happen. I will love anet again.

New trait – Bleeding causes Torment.

Condi Thieves become new meta.

I don’t even care. It would be hilarious.

Zacchary.6183:

Auesis.7301:

I know it won’t happen in a million years, but if Torment was attached to Caltrops I would laugh and laugh and laugh.

Sounds promising, though. Will have to see how it plays out.

Oh god please let this happen. I will love anet again.

And everyone else will quit. :P

I’ll reserve my judgement for post patch, but as a high mobility player, this terrifies me!

Hopefully they don’t “make more builds viable” with one hand and ‘take away stealth-less mobility builds’ with the other. But who knows!

I can tell you one thing, a mesmer with confusion is already terrifying for a thief. Think about confusion+torment for a second.

edit: also, if the trait reworks keep “remove conditions on stealth” in SA, i can see that becoming even more necessary than it already is, further drawing builds into the SA line.

Hows that for hyperbolic pre-imperative QQ?

I’m really not sure why they felt the need to give already strong classes Torment, would have been fine with leaving it to Necro.

It will be hilarious to say the least to see thieves and Mesmers applying it more effectively and often than Necro’s.

Im not sure why thieves got this condition, their condi builds are already insanely powerful in wvw. now a condi that will probably hurt as much as burning when you move while being an extremely agile class that stays invisible, stacking bleeds and running away from you 95% of the time… I think its time to reroll to condi thief.

Woaden.9425:

I’ll reserve my judgement for post patch, but as a high mobility player, this terrifies me!

Hopefully they don’t “make more builds viable” with one hand and ‘take away stealth-less mobility builds’ with the other. But who knows!

I can tell you one thing, a mesmer with confusion is already terrifying for a thief. Think about confusion+torment for a second.

edit: also, if the trait reworks keep “remove conditions on stealth” in SA, i can see that becoming even more necessary than it already is, further drawing builds into the SA line.

At least it only needs 10 points. As for mesmers, yeah confusion + tormet will make fighting them almost pointless unless you use heavy condition removals. Lol… take damage if breathing.

Yes ofc give to 2 most OP classes in game even more op condi so the most noobish players can easily kill not moving targets. GREAT anet rly…
Moving is only way how to possibly counter this two classes..

Is this going to be a trend every patch thieves get a new mechanic?

AlBundy.7851:

Is this going to be a trend every patch thieves get a new mechanic?

So you ignored that Mesmers and Necros are getting the mechanic too, and the blog post emphasised the Necro side of it. Gotcha.

Auesis.7301:

AlBundy.7851:

Is this going to be a trend every patch thieves get a new mechanic?

So you ignored that Mesmers and Necros are getting the mechanic too, and the blog post emphasised the Necro side of it. Gotcha.

necros needed a new condition (WHICH BTW IS NOT TORMENT), mesmers dont have a good condi build, but oh thieves on the other hand..

Looks like my thief may be returning to Condi spec post patch…the bleed builds were already ridiculous in small scale PVP, I can’t even imagine how much kitten will take place with this added.

Darek.1836:

Auesis.7301:

AlBundy.7851:

Is this going to be a trend every patch thieves get a new mechanic?

So you ignored that Mesmers and Necros are getting the mechanic too, and the blog post emphasised the Necro side of it. Gotcha.

necros needed a new condition (WHICH BTW IS NOT TORMENT), mesmers dont have a good condi build, but oh thieves on the other hand..

“In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”

AS WELL. Simple reading comprehension.

Condition damage based thieves have the same issue than Necros and Mesmers : only access to a single real damage condition which is bleed. This would solve that issue.

Also, a condition that deals damage when you move goes well with the classical Mesmer role of denial.

There are so many thieves in this game does that dictate every balance patch the thief community must get something free and new even when not needed?

Auesis.7301:

Darek.1836:

Auesis.7301:

AlBundy.7851:

Is this going to be a trend every patch thieves get a new mechanic?

So you ignored that Mesmers and Necros are getting the mechanic too, and the blog post emphasised the Necro side of it. Gotcha.

necros needed a new condition (WHICH BTW IS NOT TORMENT), mesmers dont have a good condi build, but oh thieves on the other hand..

“In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”

AS WELL. Simple reading comprehension.

Tell me where necromancer was mentioned in the entire paragraph for Torment. The condition they’re getting is Tainted Shackles. Simple reading comprehension.

Darek.1836:

Auesis.7301:

Darek.1836:

Auesis.7301:

AlBundy.7851:

Is this going to be a trend every patch thieves get a new mechanic?

So you ignored that Mesmers and Necros are getting the mechanic too, and the blog post emphasised the Necro side of it. Gotcha.

necros needed a new condition (WHICH BTW IS NOT TORMENT), mesmers dont have a good condi build, but oh thieves on the other hand..

“In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”

AS WELL. Simple reading comprehension.

Tell me where necromancer was mentioned in the entire paragraph for Torment. The condition they’re getting is Tainted Shackles. Simple reading comprehension.

Gotta love this. pay more attention buddy, tainted shackles is the name of the skill necros are getting for DS #5, torment is the name of the condition it causes. Simple reading comprehension huh? guess you lack it…..

Shemsu.8721:

Darek.1836:

Auesis.7301:

Darek.1836:

Auesis.7301:

AlBundy.7851:

Is this going to be a trend every patch thieves get a new mechanic?

So you ignored that Mesmers and Necros are getting the mechanic too, and the blog post emphasised the Necro side of it. Gotcha.

necros needed a new condition (WHICH BTW IS NOT TORMENT), mesmers dont have a good condi build, but oh thieves on the other hand..

“In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”

AS WELL. Simple reading comprehension.

Tell me where necromancer was mentioned in the entire paragraph for Torment. The condition they’re getting is Tainted Shackles. Simple reading comprehension.

Gotta love this. pay more attention buddy, tainted shackles is the name of the skill necros are getting for DS #5, torment is the name of the condition it causes. Simple reading comprehension huh? guess you lack it…..

actually it says that absolutely no where. but since I can’t disprove it I’ll hold my tongue for now because Im betting youre probably right.

Darek.1836:

Tell me where necromancer was mentioned in the entire paragraph for Torment. The condition they’re getting is Tainted Shackles. Simple reading comprehension.

At the start.

“With the introduction of Tainted Shackles, we’ll also be adding a new condition to the game: Torment. …. In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”

“as well” implies their giving it to another profession and since the paragraph opens by linking from the Necromancer’s Tainted Shackles to Torment reading that Necromancer’s would get access to Torment isn’t strange at all.

or maybe they meant “as well” implying they were giving those 2 classes new conditions in addition the necromaner’s new condition. ofcourse you’re probably right but that was my line of thought.

“With the introduction of Tainted Shackles, we’ll also be adding a new condition to the game: Torment”

For me it means clearly that Tainted Shackles applies Torment.

So I’m betting that if it’s on a weapon skill, body shot is getting a new lease on life.

Otherwise, tripwire.

Trying to brainstorm where Torment will fit in to skills.

I have a sneaky feeling that both Body Shot and Dancing Dagger will get it. A few traps might – the trait changes may include applications of Torment for a prerequisite, like % of HP or something along those lines.

Torment would make Dancing Dagger not total garbage, so that would be nice.

Auesis.7301:

Trying to brainstorm where Torment will fit in to skills.

I have a sneaky feeling that both Body Shot and Dancing Dagger will get it. A few traps might – the trait changes may include applications of Torment for a prerequisite, like % of HP or something along those lines.

Don’t think both body shot and dancing dagger will get it, because there is P/D, making you choose one or the other depending which one does torment better.

I’m placing bets on dancing daggers. If it was on body shot, it wouldn’t make p/p a better set imo, making it only really useful on p/d and nothing else, while on Dancing Dagger, p/d and a condition base d/d would greatly benefit with this. Also it would improve S/D indirectly with this (In theory, easier to land you 3rd auto or LS on a target that does not want to move,),
Body shot needs some lovin, but this not it.

It’s sort of scary, giving one of the best mobile professions in the game this skill. I understand Necromancers and Mesmers since Mesmer confusion was nerfed but I’m not that sure about Thieves… I wonder how badly we’re gonna get nerfed…

i just hope we will see the mystic trap thieves appear in game after this update :o

BobbyT.7192:

Auesis.7301:

Trying to brainstorm where Torment will fit in to skills.

I have a sneaky feeling that both Body Shot and Dancing Dagger will get it. A few traps might – the trait changes may include applications of Torment for a prerequisite, like % of HP or something along those lines.

Don’t think both body shot and dancing dagger will get it, because there is P/D, making you choose one or the other depending which one does torment better.

I’m placing bets on dancing daggers. If it was on body shot, it wouldn’t make p/p a better set imo, making it only really useful on p/d and nothing else, while on Dancing Dagger, p/d and a condition base d/d would greatly benefit with this. Also it would improve S/D indirectly with this (In theory, easier to land you 3rd auto or LS on a target that does not want to move,),
Body shot needs some lovin, but this not it.

I’m going to assume Shadow strike. Since the ability forces you out of melee range, the condition would work well against melee chasers and kind of bring P/D back into a strong kiting set. Cover it with your bleeds and good to go.

DD could get it definitely but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s to Shadow strike or even LDB.

I play both a necro and a thief.
I would hate if a thief has this condition on any weapon set or venom.
it should be a trap as it is the most underused utilities we have.

Is it mobility? No.
Is it auto-attack fix? No.
Is it a weapon set improvement (P/P)? No.

So why do we even care?

Looking at Anet’s track record, this new condition will simply introduce new bugs that will never get fixed.

Let’s fix the current bugs first, neh?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Is it mobility? No.
Is it auto-attack fix? No.
Is it a weapon set improvement (P/P)? No.

So why do we even care?

Looking at Anet’s track record, this new condition will simply introduce new bugs that will never get fixed.

Let’s fix the current bugs first, neh?

1 more negative condition is always good to have!

Darek.1836:

Im not sure why thieves got this condition, their condi builds are already insanely powerful in wvw. now a condi that will probably hurt as much as burning when you move while being an extremely agile class that stays invisible, stacking bleeds and running away from you 95% of the time… I think its time to reroll to condi thief.

Condition builds for a thief are NOT strong. They are typically built around bleeds which are easy enough to cleanse.

style.6173:

Darek.1836:

Im not sure why thieves got this condition, their condi builds are already insanely powerful in wvw. now a condi that will probably hurt as much as burning when you move while being an extremely agile class that stays invisible, stacking bleeds and running away from you 95% of the time… I think its time to reroll to condi thief.

Condition builds for a thief are NOT strong. They are typically built around bleeds which are easy enough to cleanse.

Most condition thieves are troll builds, while yes they may kill a few here and there they will almost never die which makes them very strong in wvw. (dont die you wont become rally food)

Brando.1374:

I play both a necro and a thief.
I would hate if a thief has this condition on any weapon set or venom.
it should be a trap as it is the most underused utilities we have.

No, it should be on P/D, which is the main condition weapon set for a thief. Ideally it would be on pistol #2 which is pretty useless right now.

As a wvw roamer p/d condition thief, guys please please stick to your crappy glass cannon d/d and d/p builds.

That being said, p/d condition thief is extremely powerful if the enemy has little to no condition cure. I rarely lose lose in a 1v2 let alone in a 1v1. Glass cannons in general will melt from the bleeds. I get a lot of mobility and evades as well. Being a ranged condition applier it gives you so many option for kiting. Going against melee players is a breeze really.

However it ‘s completely different story in sPVP where people will be going full bunker with condi cure in order to play king of the hill. Anyways, the only classes I had problems with are pure phantasm evade/defensive builds from mesmers, d/d ele with massive condi cure and healing, hybrid berserker and knight’s healing build from guardian, and pure confusion and evade build from mesmers. It’s usually a stalemate/draw with the first two builds. The confusion builds for mesmers were unfortunately nerfed to oblivion.

Torment on a backstab would be immensely strong, it’s not just the damage, but giving the target the choice between two evils, either move around to avoid the backstab and eat the Torment damage or stand still to avoid the Torment damage and give the thief an easy backstab. So if Torment is readily available to D/x then backstab may need downtuning, or, if backstab is targetted for dwontuning, Torment could be compensation, provided it is relatively easily applied. If they decide to put Torment on a weapon skill like /D dancing daggers, this would

I am not sure a P/D would benefit much, except as defense, as they are mostly ranged and only come into melee for C&D.

Considering that I play all the mobile classes (warrior, thief, mesmer), I’m kind of scared this going to lock down my maneuver abilities. I think this could do more than good for some of us… Necromancers are currently discussing how this will force us to fight them and punish up for using mobility skills.

There are some alleged leaked patch notes out. If they are to be believed, torment will be inflicted by Skale Venom only.

Edit: And some of the supposed changes (again, if they are true) are not looking good, like cluster bomb range reduced to 900 range.

Again, they aren’t verified to be true, so who knows.

Allegedly, just Skale Venom, replacing Weakness. Worthless and stupid.