Guild Wars 2

Does Anet really know what they’re doing? 2K is negligible. I hope they at least increase mug’s base damage if we can’t crit with it anymore.

They felt it needed to be nerfed so they nerfed it. I don’t see the problem. They could have just shaved off the 2k damage it deals but instead they added 2k healing to ease the burn. Sure the healing won’t do much and the damage nerf sucks but the nerf could have been a lot worse.

this is bad news for mug spike d/d build. so as my build goes now. d/d D/p… after this patch i won’t gonna use D/D anymore.. id rather adapt another build. hmm maybe just gonna focus on D/P then SB or S/D. since mug can’t do crits

mug’s dmg base on your attack power. but in my personal experience mug and CnD almost has same dmg so even if its not crit. still has enough dmg to do. imagine 2k heal is huge! for 30toughness trait thieves! 30toughness= 300 healing power! so better adapt yourself to a overpowered D/P meta build!

But being forced or cornered into using another build is not fun.

I already went with 10/30/30/0/0 and I’m pretty sure the healing power scaling with the mug heal will be very low like all other heals in the game.

To compensate for this I probably have to go something like 30/30/0/0/10 for that extra power and 5% dagger damage meaning less survival and more attack.

The C&D →Mug→Backstab combo will also have to change to Heartseeker→Mug C&D→Backstab for that little extra damage from heartseeker to compensate the damage loss of Mug….ugh…..

Mug should at least get some base damage increase if it can’t crit anymore, but the main problem is the long cooldown on a single class skill. Maybe we need 2 steals(f1,f2)? I dunno….

It’s a little odd thematically, but I think it makes sense from a game-play perspective. Their point was that Thieves are too capable at burst and not capable enough anywhere else, which ‘forces’ Thieves into glass cannon builds, and that’s a very accurate assessment. I think that nerfing their burst potential in certain areas while also improving their attrition through healing and mobility is a worthy endeavor.

They are trying to improve Thieves’ survivability and reduce their dependence on having glass cannon spec to do anything.

what this does is make EVERYONE PLAY D/P …EXACTLY WHAT WE DIDNT WANT>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG simple anet so simple. u think 1 skill stealing a boon is going to save the thief class from dying in 2 secs? PLEASE PLAY YOUR GAME before making changes to it. to all the CRYERS STOP CRYING most of you just suck. there is only 2 classes that need a nerf…..ELE for mobility / spamming. and mesmer for burst dmg and having no reall need to do anything other than roll around letting phants/clones do dmg/blow up.

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s a little odd thematically, but I think it makes sense from a game-play perspective. Their point was that Thieves are too capable at burst and not capable enough anywhere else, which ‘forces’ Thieves into glass cannon builds, and that’s a very accurate assessment. I think that nerfing their burst potential in certain areas while also improving their attrition through healing and mobility is a worthy endeavor.

They are trying to improve Thieves’ survivability and reduce their dependence on having glass cannon spec to do anything.

but this is not the answer….atleast not by itself. they cut 33% of burst dmg and give us like a 12% heal? OMG a heal we wont even use bc we mostly use it as a opener. they had the brass to call it a finishing move….NO NO NO! HS is a finisher! jesus lol isnt that why the dmg goes UP alot as they have less HP? point is to get them to have less HP for skills like HS and executioner / thief infilitrators runes….cmon we all know STEAL is a best opener skill for thieves bc they are melee. all a person would have to doo is run with a bow and keep firing. we need it as a gap closer. warriors have whirl…etc jump…leap… cmon. common sense anet

I don’t have any problem with it as well.
Along with active signet, CnD and BS it was just too insane burst.
Mug itself once dealt 5.5k to me while I had 2947 armor on other proffession, it was just too much.

As someone said, it’d be good if that 2k heal would affect whole group, maybe along with one condition cure. It would totally change its usability on different situations.

yes but if a burst thieve BURSTS…..they are then walking corpses until they reload 45-60 secs later. sooooo yeah. even then mosts bursts dont work bc people respond with anti CC and anti stuns or just simple thieves miss. its very very very powerful “IF” it ALL goes off. which it ussually doesnt. now burst is non existent for a thief. CND+BS is nto a burst. its a strong combo.

if steal cannot crit. mug shhould do this: 2500 dmg Daze for 1/4 seconds Cripple for 3 seconds and heal for 2k. that would be worth it. dont wanna hear any crap that its Overpowerd bc mesmer shatter alone is stronger even before mug nerf and mesmers have f 1 f2 f3 f4…thieves only have f1. and now its sucks…srry the skills we get SUCK. whirl is ok…but we recieve alot of dmg when we use it….and being so fragile that = death. as of now i would trade thief F1 for AAAAAAAAAAAANY other F in the game. thats how bad it is.

I don’t mind them moving away from the very high burst damage we have atm, but they need to replace it with a viable alternative. If a thief’s burst damage isn’t going to be as effective anymore, why bring one?

Their sustained dps is quite mediocre and their survivability is practically non-existent in most builds. I understand the 2k heal is meant to help in this area, but it’s not nearly enough to justify bringing a thief over a warrior for example.

I’d rather see this change to mug replace last refuge, and instead, have mug still do damage, but inflict 5 seconds of weakness, blind, or maybe 5 stacks of vulnerability or something.(or a combo of said conditions)

Last refuge is garbage, and a vampiric/heal (which mug is essentially turning into) is more in line with the shadow arts line imo.

Yes, the fact that they haven’t addressed Last Refuge yet is rather laughable. They are pretty obviously myopic when looking at things that need to be addressed.

for real you are not forced to pick mug
you can use 30 points in trickery to reduce steal CD

Maybe the healing would be better on the stolen skill? Mug is used as a gap closer, so having a heal on it seems odd to me since it’s either being popped near the beginning of the fight or when the enemy is running away.

Travlane.5948:

there is only 2 classes that need a nerf…..ELE for mobility / spamming. and mesmer for burst dmg and having no reall need to do anything other than roll around letting phants/clones do dmg/blow up.

Take it from a guy what runs Ele, Mes and Thief. Thief arguably got off easy. Spare 2k (or perhaps more, scaling with Healing Power …) heal in a pinch. Hell, my Thief runs around with 2600+ Armour. That could easily = her surviving a bit longer in a scrap. And between boon-rip from: Flanking Strike/Bountiful Theft/Superior Nullification, I could sodding well shred a Boon-lover down, even with less “burst” damage.

By comparison: Mesmer got jacked on Confusion, the major player-controlled Condition the class possesses. Burn is a random proc from Staff autoattack, Bleed is part random/part from illusions using 15+ Dueling traitline (and only procced from crits.)
Ele’s RTL will have 2x C/D when used to escape a fight. This makes it a bit easier for a Thief to catch ’em. And we all know what happens then…

Rayya.2591:

for real you are not forced to pick mug
you can use 30 points in trickery to reduce steal CD

This

For all the so called skilled thieves, I don’t see why this is as big an issue as it’s made out to be. There are plenty of other things that can be used to put out damage.

Mug is nice and can be an integral part of someone’s damage rotation, but it’s not something that should truly be depended on.

It’s still better healing than the Dolyak runes XD

The change is fine imo. People are forgetting that its a tier 1 trait that gave way more bang for its buck than it should have. 5k+ damage was huge, especially when coupled with bs/hs. Anet mentioned they are considering raising theif base damage if they can no longer burst effectively, so imo its a lot of fuss about nothing. Admittedly the heal is strange since steal is mainly an opener.. :s

Coloxeus.3480:

this is bad news for mug spike d/d build. so as my build goes now. d/d D/p… after this patch i won’t gonna use D/D anymore.. id rather adapt another build. hmm maybe just gonna focus on D/P then SB or S/D. since mug can’t do crits

I LOVE THIS NERF

Its a nice boost to my DD dodger build

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PVP-bunker-dodger-build-New-Vids-Part3/first

I’m low health and running from my oponent, let me steal him, mug will save me.
These devs are plain stupid…

for 45 secs.. you should get like 3200 health minimum…any less is just a joke.

Decked.8274:

I’m low health and running from my oponent, let me steal him, mug will save me.
These devs are plain stupid…

So… if you are low health now, you steal towards your opponent?

Sarrow.2785:

The change is fine imo. People are forgetting that its a tier 1 trait that gave way more bang for its buck than it should have. 5k+ damage was huge, especially when coupled with bs/hs. Anet mentioned they are considering raising theif base damage if they can no longer burst effectively, so imo its a lot of fuss about nothing. Admittedly the heal is strange since steal is mainly an opener.. :s

they been promising us boosts forever. the ONLY one we have or will have gotten is the steal boon on larcenous strike we are about to get on the 30th. so all the rest of the promises are bs. and “if” we dont burst well…..we officially cant burst anymore. if u take away mug like that we now have a powerful combo of CnD to BS. you cant heart seeker aafter just 2 unless its another thief. even then ur toast . 50% of our intiative….1 skill….. all traits are defensive bc we have no defense. hrm….hope we dont miss….it used to be a gamble. now its a given we gonna get owned. :P heals dont help unless theres a way to maintain the hp or mitigate dmg. niether of which we have unless we stealth.

Rengaru.4730:

Decked.8274:

I’m low health and running from my oponent, let me steal him, mug will save me.
These devs are plain stupid…

So… if you are low health now, you steal towards your opponent?

Yeah, because you know… what can kill you when you have a 2k heal?

Decked.8274:

Rengaru.4730:

Decked.8274:

I’m low health and running from my oponent, let me steal him, mug will save me.
These devs are plain stupid…

So… if you are low health now, you steal towards your opponent?

Yeah, because you know… what can kill you when you have a 2k heal?

I don’t get what you want…

If you want to run from your opponent Steal (now and after the patch) is usually a bad manuever (unless you use it to juke)

Travlane.5948:

for 45 secs.. you should get like 3200 health minimum…any less is just a joke.

steal can be trained also swiftness /furry /might /vigor /stealth (regeneration or remove 1 condition and heal for 700 )
want the trait combo ? is simple -10 /x/ 30/x/20
With new mug you get another 2000 hp + x* healing power and deal damage
everything in 1 single button and 36 seconds cooldown(trained)

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

for 45 secs.. you should get like 3200 health minimum…any less is just a joke.

steal can be trained also swiftness /furry /might /vigor /stealth (regeneration or remove 1 condition and heal for 700 )
want the trait combo ? is simple -10 /x/ 30/x/20
With new mug you get another 2000 hp + x* healing power and deal damage
everything in 1 single button and 36 seconds cooldown(trained)

raya…ill break it down for u….(and yes i know how it works) since you dont understand anything other than thieves….let me pick….guardians…they only have f1 f2 f3. not even 4 but 3….so ill start here….guardians F skills can do this: : ready now? count these up. all of them including several each bc they affect 5 players or 5-15 enemies.

Multiple large ally heals. (5 total per heal)
Huge self full heals(total well more than total HP)
Remove 3 self conditions.
Self attack cause small burn
5 allies cause small burn (1each for 5 total)
Self Attack cause BIG BURN
5 allies cause BIG BURN (1each for 5 total)
Self Regen (several Stacks from few activations)
5 allies get regen (several ways)
Self activated aegis every 40 secs
Self activated Aegis
5 allies get aegis on activation every 40 secs
5 allies get aegis on activation
Self Retaliation (3x …each virtue)
Self might stacks
Self stability
Self break Stun
Area enemy blinds (5 total)
Each = automatically cooled down on a kill/revival/rally etc
Each Passive is Stronger and Reduced in random activations

if traited correctly. would u like to tell me that steal stacks up to this? if u like me to i can do mesmer….necro….engineer especially…..steal comes up short by far in comparison to everyone. sooo…..unless my math is wrong…..steal is not half as good as guardians f mechanics :P ……is my math ok? :P if u add up all the enemies that get affected…..its like 6-7x better than steal……

In case anyone hadn’t noticed, the heal component will be of little use to a thief who opens a fight with mug. This means a thief can choose to use it for initial burst damage and forgo the heal, or choose to use it for the heal and delay some burst damage.

agree stooperdale……. nobody uses burst anymore so its really not OP. burst builds die and are no good in any format. that said…the most u do is like 3500ish usually with a crit. now we will be around 2k dmg. it was a really good tool to get people under 50% so we can do our real dmg. now :P you ahve to use it mid fight which sux bc if a fight lasts long you dont get to use it a 2nd time usually. opening fight u may just be able to go a 2nd steal. idk….sounds liket his idea was made by a non thief… or non player…..i DO like the idea if other heals of this nature were added in like a trait that gave us a strong regen everytime we used a heal for like 12 seconds. or maybe a 350 point heal for evertytime we shadowstep/shadowreturn …..or a 250 poitn burst heal everytime we exit stealth or enter it i dont care….point is if there were a few more we could add up i would be friggen stoked about steal heal but….just 2k…..eh you will never notice this….45 sec cooldown…..not gonna change a kitten thing. this is not a trade off . its a nerf.

Steal is gonna be pretty awesome for me. Before I used it to teleport to downed targets, and I’m specced for stealth on steal & poison on steal. This gives me an easy stomp, easy blind(blind on stealth), and poison, which helps so much when they have an ally trying to revive them. I also get 3 initiative.

Now I will also get a good amount of HP. I consider this a buff for me ^^

I’m running Acrobatics/Malice at the moment and was using increased poison duration, which was okay but not doing a whole lot for my build. This makes mug viable for uses other than as an opener, doesn’t overly penalize balanced builds, and brings down GC burst (which they’ve been trying to do for a while) in a way that doesn’t kill other builds. It’s a refreshing balance change in that it’s not another flat nerf like so many patches we’ve seen. Mug crits were over the top, just like RTL was over the top and WvW confusion was over the top. Mug still adds a respectable amount of damage to a burst chain, but now makes a viable trait for stealing as a mid-fight action, which better synergizes with other steal traits in practical use. As a bonus, it means you can truck through a little damage before your closing skill.

It isn’t supposed to be saving your life. Its supposed to expand the use of the trait. Now mug is useful for burst, sustain, and escape usages of steal wheras before it was only useful for burst really.

Travlane.5948:

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

for 45 secs.. you should get like 3200 health minimum…any less is just a joke.

steal can be trained also swiftness /furry /might /vigor /stealth (regeneration or remove 1 condition and heal for 700 )
want the trait combo ? is simple -10 /x/ 30/x/20
With new mug you get another 2000 hp + x* healing power and deal damage
everything in 1 single button and 36 seconds cooldown(trained)

raya…ill break it down for u….(and yes i know how it works) since you dont understand anything other than thieves….let me pick….guardians…they only have f1 f2 f3. not even 4 but 3….so ill start here….guardians F skills can do this: : ready now? count these up. all of them including several each bc they affect 5 players or 5-15 enemies.

Multiple large ally heals. (5 total per heal)
Huge self full heals(total well more than total HP)
Remove 3 self conditions.
Self attack cause small burn
5 allies cause small burn (1each for 5 total)
Self Attack cause BIG BURN
5 allies cause BIG BURN (1each for 5 total)
Self Regen (several Stacks from few activations)
5 allies get regen (several ways)
Self activated aegis every 40 secs
Self activated Aegis
5 allies get aegis on activation every 40 secs
5 allies get aegis on activation
Self Retaliation (3x …each virtue)
Self might stacks
Self stability
Self break Stun
Area enemy blinds (5 total)
Each = automatically cooled down on a kill/revival/rally etc
Each Passive is Stronger and Reduced in random activations

if traited correctly. would u like to tell me that steal stacks up to this? if u like me to i can do mesmer….necro….engineer especially…..steal comes up short by far in comparison to everyone. sooo…..unless my math is wrong…..steal is not half as good as guardians f mechanics :P ……is my math ok? :P if u add up all the enemies that get affected…..its like 6-7x better than steal……

break me down honey , but first correct your post
Virtue of resolve * -40 sec
-pasive -84 heal +0.06 * healing power
-active – Healing 1625 +0.75healing power
Traits : -honor 30 points – Battle Presence – Nearby allies gain Virtue of Resolve’s
passive effect.
Virtues -20 points -Absolute Resolution-remove 3 conditions , pasive effect is increased by 25%
Virtue of courage – 90 sec
Pasive : Grants aegis every forty seconds.
Activate: Grant aegis to yourself and nearby allies.
Traits: Valor -15 points -Courageous Return – Virtue of Courage is recharged when you rally.
Virtues -30 points
- Indomitable Courage – Virtue of Courage grants 3 seconds of stability. Virtue of Courage’s passive effect triggers every 30 seconds.
– Shielded Mind – Activating Courage also breaks stuns.

Virtue of justice
- pasive -burn for 1 second every 5’th attack / active -burn for 5 seconds.
traits : -Radiance
Justice is Blind – When activating Virtue of Justice, nearby foes are blinded.
Renewed Justice – Virtue of Justice is renewed when you kill a foe.
Virtues:
Permeating Wrath – Virtue of Justice’s passive effect no longer burns your target, but instead burns the area around you each time it activates.
Supreme Justice – Virtue of Justice causes burning every 4 attacks instead of 5. When activating Virtue of Justice, the burn duration is increased.

*Note Following traits :
Shielded Mind /Indomitable Courage / Absolute Resolution/ Permeating wrath/Supreme justice are located in Master /grandmaster -Virtues so you maximum pick 2 out of 5 !!! *
Since you use 30 trait points in virtues you cannot chose 30 in honor and 15 in valor 15 in radiance.
So dear Travlane.5948- please post your trait combination on an guardian for the skills you mentioned in virtues. As well please consider that thieves got also initiative as clas specific mechanism, but i let you make your own researches regarding this.
As well please do not mention heal on dodge roll /signet of healing since they are not clas specific mechanism and are poor compared with caltrops on dodge hide in shadows

“guardians F skills “CAN” do this:" read before you correct. i listed everything that COULD be done. if you trait properly u can get about 70%-75% or maybe slight more of those running about the same time. i never mentioned heal on roll. and its not poor compared to caltrops bc 2 rolls =3300 hp easily. 3300 hp is better than a dinky area of caltrops on ground givin 2 secs of cripple and 225 dmg….u REALLY think its better? you are not good at math.

point is Guardian mechanics from F can buff/heal about 25 people and hurn/retal on just as many if not more. they can also give about a total of, im guessing, 40 ish boons maybe even more but i dont wanna add it up. and many many heals. now steal gives like 5 things. fury swift might vigor and steals 2 boons and 1 stun if traited right plus dmg from mug. all of this goes to one person (lets say on average 4k dmg which is high but. w.e. ….low end 1200 and high high end 6100 ish) so 5 people get 3 buffs each …owner gets the same 3-4 boons plus steals 2 which he prolly already has so may or may not get more and stuns 1 person. the Burns /retaliation alone outdo the dmg of everythign here easily. that said….u cross it off like a math equation. now all we have left to compare is boons and heals. thief gives out a total of 15……guardian shares about 25 and another 10 or so for himself plus multiple heals and condi removals and stun removal and area blinds. you cant compare teh to to be equal. anyoen will tell you …..the math is there. im doing it rough but still …steal is barely half as good as f mechanics on guardian. u can get about 70% of everythign chosen as a guardian and about the same chosen as a thief. either way it scales the same if ration a =ration bx2 then it goes to say that (Y=.70) and ratio A * Y = (B * Y)2 . niether class can trait for them all but basically a similar ratio of chosen traits = same ration of choosable quantity. dont argue that steal is in any way comparable to any class…we can compare any one of them…… if you do try debate this. you must be of the mindset that you would rather have a character hit 4k dmg hitting 1 person RATHER than a chacter hitting 2k dmg in AOE up to 5 (or heals). since its a team game and not a 1 v 1 game…..doing 10k total dmg from AOE is usually better than doing a 4k shot to one person. 10 people doing the aoe dmg will down/kill more people much faster than the 10 people doing 4k per hit.

Ps the only 2 classes i have mastered are theif/guardian. ive played every other but cant claim to have an intimate knowledge of their workings yet.

Travlane.5948:

“guardians F skills “CAN” do this:" read before you correct. i listed everything that COULD be done. if you trait properly u can get about 70%-75% or maybe slight more of those running about the same time. i never mentioned heal on roll. and its not poor compared to caltrops bc 2 rolls =3300 hp easily. 3300 hp is better than a dinky area of caltrops on ground givin 2 secs of cripple and 225 dmg….u REALLY think its better? you are not good at math.

point is Guardian mechanics from F can buff/heal about 25 people and hurn/retal on just as many if not more. they can also give about a total of, im guessing, 40 ish boons maybe even more but i dont wanna add it up. and many many heals. now steal gives like 5 things. fury swift might vigor and steals 2 boons and 1 stun if traited right plus dmg from mug. all of this goes to one person (lets say on average 4k dmg which is high but. w.e. ….low end 1200 and high high end 6100 ish) so 5 people get 3 buffs each …owner gets the same 3-4 boons plus steals 2 which he prolly already has so may or may not get more and stuns 1 person. the Burns /retaliation alone outdo the dmg of everythign here easily. that said….u cross it off like a math equation. now all we have left to compare is boons and heals. thief gives out a total of 15……guardian shares about 25 and another 10 or so for himself plus multiple heals and condi removals and stun removal and area blinds. you cant compare teh to to be equal. anyoen will tell you …..the math is there. im doing it rough but still …steal is barely half as good as f mechanics on guardian. u can get about 70% of everythign chosen as a guardian and about the same chosen as a thief. either way it scales the same if ration a =ration bx2 then it goes to say that (Y=.70) and ratio A * Y = (B * Y)2 . niether class can trait for them all but basically a similar ratio of chosen traits = same ration of choosable quantity. dont argue that steal is in any way comparable to any class…we can compare any one of them…… if you do try debate this. you must be of the mindset that you would rather have a character hit 4k dmg hitting 1 person RATHER than a chacter hitting 2k dmg in AOE up to 5 (or heals). since its a team game and not a 1 v 1 game…..doing 10k total dmg from AOE is usually better than doing a 4k shot to one person. 10 people doing the aoe dmg will down/kill more people much faster than the 10 people doing 4k per hit.

Ps the only 2 classes i have mastered are theif/guardian. ive played every other but cant claim to have an intimate knowledge of their workings yet.

read what you write:
here….guardians F skills can do this: : ready now? count these up. all of them including several each bc they affect 5 players or 5-15 enemies.
Huge self full heals(total well more than total HP)
Correct yourself please if you don’t like my correction
then let’s discuss about the 25 ppls buff/heal, cause i am not sure how you do it with your F skill.
Cause everything you say are fairytales
Interested on your build who can buf 25 ally’s and heal 25 ally’s with f1 f2 f3.
And thief steal can do water field (healing seed ), and because of the initiative system thieves can blast 5 times in row to heal 5 ally’s for 35000 hp.
so mathematical thief specific system can heal for more then guardian specific system , but since you claim you master those 2 classes you already know that

SO…now steal can heal allies…what are u talking about? how is everything i say fairy tales? i just listed what guardian skills (from F1 f2 f3) could do. they are all 100% legit. I play a guardian who is full maxed and well used. I have legendaries with over 20k kills in wvw and full ascended gear…etc etc and so on and so forth. That is why you dont… and wont here anyone here saying the possibilities listed are BS. And yes, I did say guardians “can” do this…. not guardian F skills “all do this” , as if it were generic or a set base for skills.

now allow me to quote you:
1) “read what you write” —-———- write is present tense …you mean “wrote” as in past tense because it had already happened.
2) “Cause everything you say are fairytales” —-———- “Because or ’cause” then “said” not say. and its fairy tales….as in 2 words.
3) “Interested on your build who can buf 25 ally’s …..” —-———— “interested”? who is? we? you? them? they? qualify it plz. and my build is a thing. not a person. so its "..your build “which” or “that” can “buf”(I believe you mean buff here) 25 “ally’s” (here the apostrophe exclaims ownership) hence it should be written “allies”
4)“And thief steal can do water field” ill just do it in one shot here since its all too much to count lol. Proper: Also, a thieve’s steal can produce a water field"
5)“and because of the initiative system thieves can blast 5 times in row to heal 5 ally’s for 35000 hp” proper : "which, through intiative and blast finishers, can heal 5 allies for up to (x amount) of hp.

please, you obviously did not finish English very well or obviously go to college. Do not try tell me several times what i said or what i meant. It is apparent you cannot discern intent through written English well or at all.

PS sorry got off tract there. Steal can 100% NOT heal allies. a skill FROM steal you drop AND combine with cluster bomb AND having nearby allies that are hurt AND none that are not hurt nearby will cause heals. Its so circumstantial that the heal is a very low success rate in a large zerg. usually rarely healing unless only injured players stand close and healthy ones do not. this is because healing is chose randomly and not by necessity! if we can talk like this about steal….guardians aegis causes heals….burns…..and retaliation……again outdoing thieves ….and i can list more "sub-effects that can by caused by f-mechanics but only if traited and only if in the right circumstance or “combining skills” . u cant claim a skill to be good by using a qualifier like “its good when you use skill x before and skill y after and under condition/variable z as a given” srry not how it works.

Travlane.5948:

SO…now steal can heal allies…what are u talking about? how is everything i say fairy tales? i just listed what guardian skills (from F1 f2 f3) could do. they are all 100% legit. I play a guardian who is full maxed and well used. I have legendaries with over 20k kills in wvw and full ascended gear…etc etc and so on and so forth. That is why you dont… and wont here anyone here saying the possibilities listed are BS. And yes, I did say guardians “can” do this…. not guardian F skills “all do this” , as if it were generic or a set base for skills.

now allow me to quote you:
1) “read what you write” —-———- write is present tense …you mean “wrote” as in past tense because it had already happened.
2) “Cause everything you say are fairytales” —-———- “Because or ’cause” then “said” not say. and its fairy tales….as in 2 words.
3) “Interested on your build who can buf 25 ally’s …..” —-———— “interested”? who is? we? you? them? they? qualify it plz. and my build is a thing. not a person. so its "..your build “which” or “that” can “buf”(I believe you mean buff here) 25 “ally’s” (here the apostrophe exclaims ownership) hence it should be written “allies”
4)“And thief steal can do water field” ill just do it in one shot here since its all too much to count lol. Proper: Also, a thieve’s steal can produce a water field"
5)“and because of the initiative system thieves can blast 5 times in row to heal 5 ally’s for 35000 hp” proper : "which, through intiative and blast finishers, can heal 5 allies for up to (x amount) of hp.

please, you obviously did not finish English very well or obviously go to college. Do not try tell me several times what i said or what i meant. It is apparent you cannot discern intent through written English well or at all.

PS sorry got off tract there. Steal can 100% NOT heal allies. a skill FROM steal you drop AND combine with cluster bomb AND having nearby allies that are hurt AND none that are not hurt nearby will cause heals. Its so circumstantial that the heal is a very low success rate in a large zerg. usually rarely healing unless only injured players stand close and healthy ones do not. this is because healing is chose randomly and not by necessity! if we can talk like this about steal….guardians aegis causes heals….burns…..and retaliation……again outdoing thieves ….and i can list more "sub-effects that can by caused by f-mechanics but only if traited and only if in the right circumstance or “combining skills” . u cant claim a skill to be good by using a qualifier like “its good when you use skill x before and skill y after and under condition/variable z as a given” srry not how it works.

oh so now that you played an guardian with legendary and you got 20k kills makes you an expert ?
I am sorry , fairytales are fairytales. you are the only guardian that can buff /heal an entire server with f1 button
Ok , VOJ don’t buff ally. An trait related to virtue of justice give buff . on the same way as an stolen skill grant an water field. Still is related to steal ability.
An man would accept his mistake , not change the subject to how many english we study on school
P.S. 20 k kills , i had that in november(

well my point was your english is horrible and my point was correct. steal isnt half as productive as any of the other classes’s “F” mechanics. check and mate. and pvp is all that you do? well congrats. so you can only comment on wvw. and for 2…. whats that like almost 2 kills per minute? thats impossible unless all you do is zerging. im a thief. single targeting killer. i skirmish and 1v1 1v2 1vx bc its fun not bc its productive. point is i could go with trick arrow do minor dmg or daggerstorm just to get bags. i also do pve alot and spvp/tpvp. i havel also played about 6.5 months myslef. so again its not my mistake ur just claiming it is….PROVE that those buffs dont happen? and are we splitting hairs about VOJ? it gives a burn buff……it actually shows up on your bar of buffs as VoJ…..says burn on next attack. either a small or big one depending on activated or passive effect. and all the ones i listed most can be used and used more than once especially with renewed focus. since we are adding in skills now….. lol lets add in renewed focus so we can multiply everything i mentioned by 2….. again. no matter how you look at it. F mechanics on guard and other charactersa are atleast twice as productive/twice better than steal. and even more so no after mug nerf. how about this. lets drop all the TRAIT crap and look at it str8 as it is.

THIEF :
F1 = STEAL: 900 range teleport to enemy & get 1 skill——45 second cooldown.

GUARDIAN
F1 = Passive = Burn foes with every fifth attack x 1 second
F1 = Active = Burn foe for 1 attack x 5 seconds———30 second cooldown
F2 = Passive = Regenerate health (constant heal)
F2 = Active = Heal yourself and nearby allies———60 second cooldown
F3 = Passive = Grant Aegis every 40 seconds
F3 = Active = Grant Aegis to yourself and nearby allies———90 second cooldown

THIEF F’s = 80 max uses per hour.
GUARDS F’s = 120(dmg)/60(heal)/40(block) = 220 max uses per hour.

()=minimum excluding passives.

this is not hard to figure out. if we add in traits itll make it even more so lop sided . fight might u wont win :P

Travlane.5948:

well my point was your english is horrible and my point was correct. steal isnt half as productive as any of the other classes’s “F” mechanics. check and mate. and pvp is all that you do? well congrats. so you can only comment on wvw. and for 2…. whats that like almost 2 kills per minute? thats impossible unless all you do is zerging. im a thief. single targeting killer. i skirmish and 1v1 1v2 1vx bc its fun not bc its productive. point is i could go with trick arrow do minor dmg or daggerstorm just to get bags. i also do pve alot and spvp/tpvp. i havel also played about 6.5 months myslef. so again its not my mistake ur just claiming it is….PROVE that those buffs dont happen? and are we splitting hairs about VOJ? it gives a burn buff……it actually shows up on your bar of buffs as VoJ…..says burn on next attack. either a small or big one depending on activated or passive effect. and all the ones i listed most can be used and used more than once especially with renewed focus. since we are adding in skills now….. lol lets add in renewed focus so we can multiply everything i mentioned by 2….. again. no matter how you look at it. F mechanics on guard and other charactersa are atleast twice as productive/twice better than steal. and even more so no after mug nerf. how about this. lets drop all the TRAIT crap and look at it str8 as it is.

THIEF :
F1 = STEAL: 900 range teleport to enemy & get 1 skill——45 second cooldown.

GUARDIAN
F1 = Passive = Burn foes with every fifth attack x 1 second
F1 = Active = Burn foe for 1 attack x 5 seconds———30 second cooldown
F2 = Passive = Regenerate health (constant heal)
F2 = Active = Heal yourself and nearby allies———60 second cooldown
F3 = Passive = Grant Aegis every 40 seconds
F3 = Active = Grant Aegis to yourself and nearby allies———90 second cooldown

THIEF F’s = 80 max uses per hour.
GUARDS F’s = 120(dmg)/60(heal)/40(block) = 220 max uses per hour.

()=minimum excluding passives.

this is not hard to figure out. if we add in traits itll make it even more so lop sided . fight might u wont win :P

your point would be valid without any traits if :
1. guardians or any other clas in game had initiative , the ability to blast 5 times in row / leap 5 times in row , drop 3/4 smoke/poison fields in row
2.steal would not steal skills :
warrior -area damage -whirl finisher
ranger – area heal -water field
necro -area fear
mesmer – all boons
engineir -ethernal field
thief -stealth

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

well my point was your english is horrible and my point was correct. steal isnt half as productive as any of the other classes’s “F” mechanics. check and mate. and pvp is all that you do? well congrats. so you can only comment on wvw. and for 2…. whats that like almost 2 kills per minute? thats impossible unless all you do is zerging. im a thief. single targeting killer. i skirmish and 1v1 1v2 1vx bc its fun not bc its productive. point is i could go with trick arrow do minor dmg or daggerstorm just to get bags. i also do pve alot and spvp/tpvp. i havel also played about 6.5 months myslef. so again its not my mistake ur just claiming it is….PROVE that those buffs dont happen? and are we splitting hairs about VOJ? it gives a burn buff……it actually shows up on your bar of buffs as VoJ…..says burn on next attack. either a small or big one depending on activated or passive effect. and all the ones i listed most can be used and used more than once especially with renewed focus. since we are adding in skills now….. lol lets add in renewed focus so we can multiply everything i mentioned by 2….. again. no matter how you look at it. F mechanics on guard and other charactersa are atleast twice as productive/twice better than steal. and even more so no after mug nerf. how about this. lets drop all the TRAIT crap and look at it str8 as it is.

THIEF :
F1 = STEAL: 900 range teleport to enemy & get 1 skill——45 second cooldown.

GUARDIAN
F1 = Passive = Burn foes with every fifth attack x 1 second
F1 = Active = Burn foe for 1 attack x 5 seconds———30 second cooldown
F2 = Passive = Regenerate health (constant heal)
F2 = Active = Heal yourself and nearby allies———60 second cooldown
F3 = Passive = Grant Aegis every 40 seconds
F3 = Active = Grant Aegis to yourself and nearby allies———90 second cooldown

THIEF F’s = 80 max uses per hour.
GUARDS F’s = 120(dmg)/60(heal)/40(block) = 220 max uses per hour.

()=minimum excluding passives.

this is not hard to figure out. if we add in traits itll make it even more so lop sided . fight might u wont win :P

your point would be valid without any traits if :
1. guardians or any other clas in game had initiative , the ability to blast 5 times in row / leap 5 times in row , drop 3/4 smoke/poison fields in row
2.steal would not steal skills :
warrior -area damage -whirl finisher
ranger – area heal -water field
necro -area fear
mesmer – all boons
engineir -ethernal field
thief -stealth

steal hits block, invuln, dodge, distortion, certain mobs/bosses, etc. You get nothing.

@rayya thank you for admitted im right. your admission is in the form of rationale. aka…you rationalized that we have intiative and HS’s and etc. well the fact is 2 CnDs = death if u miss bc thats all the intiative we have. 2 skills and we are done. anyway…th reason we have intiative is to control how much dmg output we do…..and we have decent dmg out put( not even the best 1 or 2) is bc we have NO defense practically…we are the squishiest of all classes. THAT is the reason. has nothing to do with steal lol…so stop side stepping or shirking the real facts . Guardian mechanics and every other is better than steal. no contest.

randomfightfan.4091:

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

well my point was your english is horrible and my point was correct. steal isnt half as productive as any of the other classes’s “F” mechanics. check and mate. and pvp is all that you do? well congrats. so you can only comment on wvw. and for 2…. whats that like almost 2 kills per minute? thats impossible unless all you do is zerging. im a thief. single targeting killer. i skirmish and 1v1 1v2 1vx bc its fun not bc its productive. point is i could go with trick arrow do minor dmg or daggerstorm just to get bags. i also do pve alot and spvp/tpvp. i havel also played about 6.5 months myslef. so again its not my mistake ur just claiming it is….PROVE that those buffs dont happen? and are we splitting hairs about VOJ? it gives a burn buff……it actually shows up on your bar of buffs as VoJ…..says burn on next attack. either a small or big one depending on activated or passive effect. and all the ones i listed most can be used and used more than once especially with renewed focus. since we are adding in skills now….. lol lets add in renewed focus so we can multiply everything i mentioned by 2….. again. no matter how you look at it. F mechanics on guard and other charactersa are atleast twice as productive/twice better than steal. and even more so no after mug nerf. how about this. lets drop all the TRAIT crap and look at it str8 as it is.

THIEF :
F1 = STEAL: 900 range teleport to enemy & get 1 skill——45 second cooldown.

GUARDIAN
F1 = Passive = Burn foes with every fifth attack x 1 second
F1 = Active = Burn foe for 1 attack x 5 seconds———30 second cooldown
F2 = Passive = Regenerate health (constant heal)
F2 = Active = Heal yourself and nearby allies———60 second cooldown
F3 = Passive = Grant Aegis every 40 seconds
F3 = Active = Grant Aegis to yourself and nearby allies———90 second cooldown

THIEF F’s = 80 max uses per hour.
GUARDS F’s = 120(dmg)/60(heal)/40(block) = 220 max uses per hour.

()=minimum excluding passives.

this is not hard to figure out. if we add in traits itll make it even more so lop sided . fight might u wont win :P

your point would be valid without any traits if :
1. guardians or any other clas in game had initiative , the ability to blast 5 times in row / leap 5 times in row , drop 3/4 smoke/poison fields in row
2.steal would not steal skills :
warrior -area damage -whirl finisher
ranger – area heal -water field
necro -area fear
mesmer – all boons
engineir -ethernal field
thief -stealth

steal hits block, invuln, dodge, distortion, certain mobs/bosses, etc. You get nothing.

TY FOR AGREEING lol this guy up here is just a clueless mob sheep steal by itself sux. the only skill i get happy at is whirl….but if ur fighting more than one player it will kill you bc you are taking dmg that you cant avoid for 4 seconds or more. you cant even use it unless you have like 60% or more hp…or ur dead. gunk? pfft hits once…adds a random condition…nobody stays in it. fear? 1.5 secs of fear? pffft lol big dea. consume plasma is nice….but 10 secs aint saving our kitten #8230;although it is def nice…but u also cant cast it unless ur invis bc its like 1.5 sec cast time. ranger ?? well remove conditions we already have…regen we have….the heal is ok b ut too risky to waste intiative in a battle especially when 1/5 may heal somebody who needs it. CLUSTER bomb is so slow that it wont even heal the dmg you take while activating it. has to be just the right condition. 3 secs of stealth is good …prollyh the 2nd best thing we have to be honest but it doesnt heal or dmg. but dont get me wrong very usefull. now compare these to direct heal direct blocks direct fire burning…….all steal is ….is a gap closer to open the fight with and maybe usefull if fighting 1 or 2 of 8 classes. :P

Rengaru.4730:

Decked.8274:

I’m low health and running from my oponent, let me steal him, mug will save me.
These devs are plain stupid…

So… if you are low health now, you steal towards your opponent?

LOL was laughing when i see these comments. But u two has a point. But why not steal+Cloak N dagger if u wanna survive.

It wud be a kitten if arena net change steal to instead of just 2k heal. Why not 2k life steal ? LOL a bit op

Travlane.5948:

randomfightfan.4091:

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

well my point was your english is horrible and my point was correct. steal isnt half as productive as any of the other classes’s “F” mechanics. check and mate. and pvp is all that you do? well congrats. so you can only comment on wvw. and for 2…. whats that like almost 2 kills per minute? thats impossible unless all you do is zerging. im a thief. single targeting killer. i skirmish and 1v1 1v2 1vx bc its fun not bc its productive. point is i could go with trick arrow do minor dmg or daggerstorm just to get bags. i also do pve alot and spvp/tpvp. i havel also played about 6.5 months myslef. so again its not my mistake ur just claiming it is….PROVE that those buffs dont happen? and are we splitting hairs about VOJ? it gives a burn buff……it actually shows up on your bar of buffs as VoJ…..says burn on next attack. either a small or big one depending on activated or passive effect. and all the ones i listed most can be used and used more than once especially with renewed focus. since we are adding in skills now….. lol lets add in renewed focus so we can multiply everything i mentioned by 2….. again. no matter how you look at it. F mechanics on guard and other charactersa are atleast twice as productive/twice better than steal. and even more so no after mug nerf. how about this. lets drop all the TRAIT crap and look at it str8 as it is.

THIEF :
F1 = STEAL: 900 range teleport to enemy & get 1 skill——45 second cooldown.

GUARDIAN
F1 = Passive = Burn foes with every fifth attack x 1 second
F1 = Active = Burn foe for 1 attack x 5 seconds———30 second cooldown
F2 = Passive = Regenerate health (constant heal)
F2 = Active = Heal yourself and nearby allies———60 second cooldown
F3 = Passive = Grant Aegis every 40 seconds
F3 = Active = Grant Aegis to yourself and nearby allies———90 second cooldown

THIEF F’s = 80 max uses per hour.
GUARDS F’s = 120(dmg)/60(heal)/40(block) = 220 max uses per hour.

()=minimum excluding passives.

this is not hard to figure out. if we add in traits itll make it even more so lop sided . fight might u wont win :P

your point would be valid without any traits if :
1. guardians or any other clas in game had initiative , the ability to blast 5 times in row / leap 5 times in row , drop 3/4 smoke/poison fields in row
2.steal would not steal skills :
warrior -area damage -whirl finisher
ranger – area heal -water field
necro -area fear
mesmer – all boons
engineir -ethernal field
thief -stealth

steal hits block, invuln, dodge, distortion, certain mobs/bosses, etc. You get nothing.

TY FOR AGREEING lol this guy up here is just a clueless mob sheep steal by itself sux. the only skill i get happy at is whirl….but if ur fighting more than one player it will kill you bc you are taking dmg that you cant avoid for 4 seconds or more. you cant even use it unless you have like 60% or more hp…or ur dead. gunk? pfft hits once…adds a random condition…nobody stays in it. fear? 1.5 secs of fear? pffft lol big dea. consume plasma is nice….but 10 secs aint saving our kitten ..although it is def nice…but u also cant cast it unless ur invis bc its like 1.5 sec cast time. ranger ?? well remove conditions we already have…regen we have….the heal is ok b ut too risky to waste intiative in a battle especially when 1/5 may heal somebody who needs it. CLUSTER bomb is so slow that it wont even heal the dmg you take while activating it. has to be just the right condition. 3 secs of stealth is good …prollyh the 2nd best thing we have to be honest but it doesnt heal or dmg. but dont get me wrong very usefull. now compare these to direct heal direct blocks direct fire burning…….all steal is ….is a gap closer to open the fight with and maybe usefull if fighting 1 or 2 of 8 classes. :P

is second time you insult me today, second really desirve an report
if you don’t like the skills on thief, you can easy play your overpowered guardian, wich you claim you master, and that is 10 times better
P.S. cluster cast time is 1/2 seconds -you can cast 5 clusters in 2.5 seconds.

Complaining because mug will heal for 2k on top of dealing dmg and its on a 45 sec cd…

FLASH NEWS!!! IT IS NOT A HEALING ABILITY!!!

Never heard anyone complaint wen it only dealt dmg… Not that it also heals it is suddenly useless and needs a buff?!

Think a bit before posting this kind of garbage next time…

nah. nothign wrong with being clueless…..just means u dont have the knowledge prior…if u did that would mean you are stupid. i do not think you are stupid. i just dont think you ahve all the facts. and you cannot cast 5 clusters in 2.5 seconds…..that is a fact…..trick shot is .25 seconds does that mean you can cast 4 in 1 sec? no….SHOULD you be able to? yes. can you? no. see this is where learning inglish good works right nice lol. they are not true to their counters. .25 secs on trick shot is in reality .95 seconds (check other forums as this is a reported bug) same with cluster bomb. its about .9 seconds per cluster bomb. you can check if you dont believe me. im sure ur a good enough at whatever character you play but thief is my specialty.

Volrath.1473:

Complaining because mug will heal for 2k on top of dealing dmg and its on a 45 sec cd…

FLASH NEWS!!! IT IS NOT A HEALING ABILITY!!!

Never heard anyone complaint wen it only dealt dmg… Not that it also heals it is suddenly useless and needs a buff?!

Think a bit before posting this kind of garbage next time…

it is garbage….really….now….when they fix steal to telport u 900 ft without a target….then its an escape tool and you can get away. id settle for that. but right now its not good. nboody steals for 6k anymore…bc d/d burst sucks and you just die die die. so in reality we are doing 3-3500 max on it. its great additional dmg for a sword or mediocre d/p build. thats what i think most are complaining about. bc if we save steal til the middle of combat we have to find antoehr way to get closer to the enemy….HS? eh that wastest way too much intiative. invis? eh why was intiative/utility skill? shadows step? cmon need to save that for emergency. steal never did much other than gap close and intiative dmg to help get them under 50% so we can do our real dmg. now its going to hit for 1k to 1.5k and heal 2k. its not really gonna help…..if it was an integral part of thief mechanics…..it would add up….IF FOR EXAMPLE : we had a 300 hp heal everytime we shadowstepped or shadow returned and had a 150 hp heal everytime we entered or leftinvis or a 200 pt heal everytime we hit with an offhand weapon! see these arent much but if u add them up and then add up the 2k heal from steal….we have sustainability . i really dont wanna hear this is OP bc eles can heal 3 x better than this and guardians even more. we have no defense . but right now….by it self…. the 2k heal is not helping. this is a nerf. mechanically and perspectively as a thief….it doesnt not fit or work. ……..yet…..soon i hope tho. id love to have a setup like said.

Quite disappointed in this. I run a fairly tanky setup based around fury uptime, 2900 armour, 17k health kind of thing. Mug was an important part of my rotation as you lack the damage without it to finish off someone who is traited defensively. My setup had around 3k atk, 36% crit, high fury, 60%crit dmg and it was working nicely. Now i’m compensated for losing a huge amount of my damage rotation, for a 2k one person only heal on a skill used to initiate or, if the fight lasted long enough, to catch a runner.

Thief burst has never been an issue. It only hurt people without cooldowns or offguard, or just plain suck. There are burstier setups than the thief, example a shatter mesmer, a mainhand axe warrior, static discharge engineers with nades aren’t far off, ele spike damage is higher than ours although granted nobody runs that ….

These nerfs hurt the balanced or tankier builds a lot. It hurts the burst builds a lot. It compensates via the heal….nobody? If my build were based around sustain (which it is), unsurprisingly i’ve taken 30 in SA for heal in stealth.

Where are the buffs we’ve been promised? Not seen P/P get anything, S/P still has nerfed pistol whip damage despite the quickness nerf across the board, D/D is still a gimmick…. and where is the mobility buffs promised? Warriors when setup for it and elementalists are outrunning the supposed most mobile class. Only keep up with them via burning ALL initiative at which point they turn around and kill you.

1) Buff pistol whip, and by more than it was nerfed for. Put it up 25% damage seeing as quickness isn’t worth it anymore. Also speed the animation up slightly, at least the initial bit so its usable. Or, make it usable on the move, swinging the sword left and right as you run (for any dynasty warriors fans, Zhou Yu, imagine his running attack in DW3).
2) P/P needs access to stealth. Its the least mobile weapon set we have, and has no stealth access. The direct damage on the auto attack also needs better scaling with power as the set it just confused at the moment. Mainhand mainly for condi, offhand for power, and the dual skill for power. Perhaps a change to skill 2, say, make it apply vulnerability and give either a leap or blast finisher. If leap, a teleport away from target? If blast, a blast on the position fired from, not upon.
3) Dancing daggers needs a damage boost, not all the way back (that’d be 100% more dmg on it to bring it back to its former glory), but, a 40% damage boost would be welcome for sure. That’d bring it to being still only 70% of its former damage.

Those things are vital. My other gripe is things like traps and venoms. Traps are frankly useless aside super niche scenario (defending a tower choke point with trip wire or something). Not sure what to do here, aside basically make them like ranger traps. Larger area, not a line, ground targeting. Venoms themselves aren’t too bad, the trouble with venoms is to use one you give a lot up. Shadow step and one of the stealth utilities (blinding powder or shadow refuge), are on practically every thieves toolbar. I use shadow step, blinding powder AND shadow refuge. Others may have a signet of their choice as the 3rd, for endurance regen and condi cleansing, speed or whatever. The point is all of these are generally too good to not have on your toolbar. Possible solution?

1) Venoms as F skills. Make them select-able perhaps like utility skills, and you can only have one or maybe 2 venoms on your F bar. It’d be a huge welcome to pretty much any thief build (power guys could use the chill for example, condi’s would go for poison etc etc). The CD on them would be like steal, affected by trait points invested in trickery. The cooldown, not sure, probably the same as steal or there abouts. Maybe even leave the venoms as utlity also so you can double venom, 2* drake venom (one f skale, one utility skale). Keep venomshare to utility bar venoms only.