Guild Wars 2

@KATSUMOTO well said friend. we were discussing the lack of steal being up to par of the other classes although 1 guy did disagree but i proved him wrong. ive been saying the builds that really get hurt are the ones that only hit for 3500 with it. not 6k…the medium builds that need that burst to really help do some dmg. they did say they wanted to buff up our base dmg to compesated for the millions of dmg nerfs we already got but then again we been promised to be made more defensive/sliperrier too….and that hasnt happend yet….so it may be time to reroll really soon. id like thief to be viable in tpvp or wvw. and not just venom share condi build which is boring as hell staying back to share venoms.

Decked.8274:

Rengaru.4730:

Decked.8274:

I’m low health and running from my oponent, let me steal him, mug will save me.
These devs are plain stupid…

So… if you are low health now, you steal towards your opponent?

Yeah, because you know… what can kill you when you have a 2k heal?

They did state they intended to make steal usable as a shadowstep without a target. So you could steal AWAY form your target and get a heal out of it.

adaneshade they havent come thru on any thief promises yet…other than nerfs….so lets keep hoping :/

Trav, steal is in its current state pretty good. A lot of the steal skills are however useless or too niche to be relied upon. The trouble is like every class, you need to carry a stun breaker. In the case of a thief, shadow step is indisputably by far the best we have. 1200 range movement, can be activated again for a 2nd stun break and cleanses 3 conditions on shadow return. If you aren’t using shadow step, well i’d say you’re doing it wrong.

That leaves 2 spaces on my utility bar. Any sustain based thief is going to need a stealth access on there, and any burst thief will too to escape once the damage is done. Now 1 space on the bar….

Here we run into the issue of, there’s things like venoms which are nice, but not good enough to compete with say, a 2nd stealth ability, or some of the signets (especially agility signet, that thing is amazing). Why take a 1s chill on a few attacks, when I can just run 25% faster all the time. Why take vulnerability and weakness application to an enemy, when the enemy will be tankier than I and need the dodges less, that weakness would deny, when I can get 2 free dodges and a condition cleanse from signet of agility etc.

With unrealiable steal skills, and now a huge nerf to our damage rotations for the benefit of a tiny sustain boost, the venom skills should be available on the F bar to bring the thief in line with other classes. Now steal will hit for 1-2k depending on how much damage you’re traited for (with mug of course), every 36-45s depending on trickery depth. Compared to shatters, virtues, second life bars (death shroud) and so on this is nothing. It wouldn’t be overpowering either, if you limit it to 1 maybe 2 venom skills on the F bar.

Ugh I think i’ll go to bed. Gets a bit annoying having the class nerfed over and over because some glass cannon ranger newbie or something got backstabbed because he didn’t so much as pack a stun break.

I will not argue with you, since it is pointless.
If guardians and Eles heal so much is because they are suppose to.
Thieves roll is a different one, that’s the beauty of different professions, if you are unhealthy with your thief play a different protection, problem solved.

Have fun.

Travlane.5948:

nothign wrong
think you ahve all the facts.
no. see this is where learning inglish good works right nice lol.

you should stop for real with the english
And in the end, it is normal that most of thieves to disagree with the nerf, since is thief forum.
Bring this to wvwvw forum and 100 ppls will disagree, 10-15% of server population will agree with you.
I got one trait that require 10 trait points (adept) and got skill coeficient 1.5
now that means
if i use 10/30/30 build with full berseker gear utility’s shadow refuge / assasin signet and SoS (signets of power )- an common burst build i will reach 2400+250 (bloodlust) + 700 (20 stacks of might) 3350 power
weapon damage 952 * 3350 (power) * 1.10 (first strikes) * 1.5 *1.15 assasin signet/ 2000 (target defence- an glas cannon) -3025 damage MUG – but is not enough you want to crit for 2800 *2.70 =8000+ damage in 1 trait

Adaneshade.2409:

Decked.8274:

Rengaru.4730:

Decked.8274:

I’m low health and running from my oponent, let me steal him, mug will save me.
These devs are plain stupid…

So… if you are low health now, you steal towards your opponent?

Yeah, because you know… what can kill you when you have a 2k heal?

They did state they intended to make steal usable as a shadowstep without a target. So you could steal AWAY form your target and get a heal out of it.

Yes, steal, not mug, if you steal without a target won’t trigger mug thus will not heal you.

Volrath.1473:

Adaneshade.2409:

Decked.8274:

Rengaru.4730:

Decked.8274:

I’m low health and running from my oponent, let me steal him, mug will save me.
These devs are plain stupid…

So… if you are low health now, you steal towards your opponent?

Yeah, because you know… what can kill you when you have a 2k heal?

They did state they intended to make steal usable as a shadowstep without a target. So you could steal AWAY form your target and get a heal out of it.

Yes, steal, not mug, if you steal without a target won’t trigger mug thus will not heal you.

How do we know this? Other abilities that trigger on steal still work without a target…..

That’s not just 1 trait though is it Rayya. That’s making use of signet might stacks, the 25 point minor in SA as well as mug.

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

nothign wrong
think you ahve all the facts.
no. see this is where learning inglish good works right nice lol.

you should stop for real with the english
And in the end, it is normal that most of thieves to disagree with the nerf, since is thief forum.
Bring this to wvwvw forum and 100 ppls will disagree, 10-15% of server population will agree with you.
I got one trait that require 10 trait points (adept) and got skill coeficient 1.5
now that means
if i use 10/30/30 build with full berseker gear utility’s shadow refuge / assasin signet and SoS (signets of power )- an common burst build i will reach 2400+250 (bloodlust) + 700 (20 stacks of might) 3350 power
weapon damage 952 * 3350 (power) * 1.10 (first strikes) * 1.5 *1.15 assasin signet/ 2000 (target defence- an glas cannon) -3025 damage MUG – but is not enough you want to crit for 2800 *2.70 =8000+ damage in 1 trait

What is your first language? not English right? you missed my sarcasm…poor grammar and horrible spelling was meant as a dig. You obviously missed that bc you dont speak english well. yes well….not good…hence the first being sarcasm…ask anyone . peace kiddo.

ok mug doesnt do 8k dmg. so stop with that nonsense….the high end is like 6k6.5k on full 30 30 0 0 10 burst build (strongest in game) also dies the fastest in game. and only hits this hard against upscales. your ‘average’ build hits 3-4k with it. and backstabs in those builds are about 5.6k usually “ish” now this said…..its not OP. is it op in D/D ….eh maybe ….probably slightly yes. but in that build u WILL DIE! you have a 50% chance of killing 1 person ….then a what…90% chance of dying if theres several enemies around…..so who cares……but nerfing it for the high dmg build means nerfing the low dmg builds that really rely on it for a decent push. should it belong for 10 traits? prolly 20 to be honest. but if u look in the power line…there should be some dmg somewhere in there…but theres not….we have mug…and a 5% dagger dmg boost. pfft …thats ALL we have for real dmg in the power line. rest are a few immobs….vulnerabilites….venom crap….might /signet this n that. so mug is really our only viable huge dmg burst from our big bad power line.

Katsumoto.9452:

Trav, steal is in its current state pretty good. A lot of the steal skills are however useless or too niche to be relied upon. The trouble is like every class, you need to carry a stun breaker. In the case of a thief, shadow step is indisputably by far the best we have. 1200 range movement, can be activated again for a 2nd stun break and cleanses 3 conditions on shadow return. If you aren’t using shadow step, well i’d say you’re doing it wrong.

That leaves 2 spaces on my utility bar. Any sustain based thief is going to need a stealth access on there, and any burst thief will too to escape once the damage is done. Now 1 space on the bar….

Here we run into the issue of, there’s things like venoms which are nice, but not good enough to compete with say, a 2nd stealth ability, or some of the signets (especially agility signet, that thing is amazing). Why take a 1s chill on a few attacks, when I can just run 25% faster all the time. Why take vulnerability and weakness application to an enemy, when the enemy will be tankier than I and need the dodges less, that weakness would deny, when I can get 2 free dodges and a condition cleanse from signet of agility etc.

With unrealiable steal skills, and now a huge nerf to our damage rotations for the benefit of a tiny sustain boost, the venom skills should be available on the F bar to bring the thief in line with other classes. Now steal will hit for 1-2k depending on how much damage you’re traited for (with mug of course), every 36-45s depending on trickery depth. Compared to shatters, virtues, second life bars (death shroud) and so on this is nothing. It wouldn’t be overpowering either, if you limit it to 1 maybe 2 venom skills on the F bar.

Ugh I think i’ll go to bed. Gets a bit annoying having the class nerfed over and over because some glass cannon ranger newbie or something got backstabbed because he didn’t so much as pack a stun break.

im not saying steal sux. i think u misunderstood me or maybe i didnt state myself well enough. i mean it sux in comparison to what other classes get for their F mechanics. id trade it any day for a 2nd HP bar like the necros have…. :P mesmers dmg from f2 f3 f4 f1…sure…name any id trade it for…..warriors? sure theirs reuses fast and is reliant on hitting people which we do fast ….plz trade! steal is NOT a stun break. so its really only a gap closer and a small % that the skill we steal is usefull. i mean the on u steal from eles never hits them (ice) bc of their mobility/mist /blocks etc. warrior whirl is good in group play but 1 v 1 = death bc ui stand there taking dmg….(better hope u ahve enough HP before you start it) thief stelaing from a thief is alot of the time a miss if not u do get a free 3 sec stealth out of it…but wtf is that compared to what other classes get. my point is that we come up extremely short in compared to others in F mechanics. ravvy or whaver his name is thinks we get initiative to counter that. but intiative is a bad thing for us. its so we can spam attacks like elementalists. dmg? nope the trade off for that is super low HP and the worst defense in game. there is no trade off to coming up short in F mechanics. :/ this nerf is going to hurt until they add some more healing in . even just small ones that can be done many times and add up. then the 2k heal is really goign to work well. it would “mesh” well. but as for now. its not a productive tool. hopefully they will implement something to make this an integral part of thief play. a norm if u will

Travlane.5948:

ok mug doesnt do 8k dmg. so stop with that nonsense….the high end is like 6k6.5k on full 30 30 0 0 10 burst build (strongest in game) also dies the fastest in game. and only hits this hard against upscales. your ‘average’ build hits 3-4k with it. and backstabs in those builds are about 5.6k usually “ish” now this said…..its not OP. is it op in D/D ….eh maybe ….probably slightly yes. but in that build u WILL DIE! you have a 50% chance of killing 1 person ….then a what…90% chance of dying if theres several enemies around…..so who cares……but nerfing it for the high dmg build means nerfing the low dmg builds that really rely on it for a decent push. should it belong for 10 traits? prolly 20 to be honest. but if u look in the power line…there should be some dmg somewhere in there…but theres not….we have mug…and a 5% dagger dmg boost. pfft …thats ALL we have for real dmg in the power line. rest are a few immobs….vulnerabilites….venom crap….might /signet this n that. so mug is really our only viable huge dmg burst from our big bad power line.

average thieves hit for 3000, if damage formula say it hits 8000, then it hits
if you add sigil of force, if enemy wear robe full bersek, 10.000 is posible on lvl 80 player
average thieves belive they are the best at 20.000 wvwvw kills and 1 legendary

What is your first language? not English right? you missed my sarcasm…poor grammar and horrible spelling was meant as a dig. You obviously missed that bc you dont speak english well. yes well….not good…hence the first being sarcasm…ask anyone . peace kiddo.

if ENg is not my first lang, and you understand it, then is not that horible.
if you spell wrong is because you want too, i got your point:))
That makes me the kiddo and you very mature

well u quote theoretical ideas a lot. I play thief. trust me they don;t hit for 10k with steal. 6.5k is usually the high end. it has been maaaaaaaaaaaaany months since i have hit 8k for steal and that was on an upscale.

ps…if you understood my sarcasm you would not have mentioned my “poor grammar”

Travlane.5948:

well u quote theoretical ideas a lot. I play thief. trust me they don;t hit for 10k with steal. 6.5k is usually the high end. it has been maaaaaaaaaaaaany months since i have hit 8k for steal and that was on an upscale.

ps…if you understood my sarcasm you would not have mentioned my “poor grammar”

ask yourself what you do wrong then
Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mug
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Might
Assassin’s Signet – Active: Deal 15% more damage on your next five attacks.

instead of hating on mug like QQers try suggest somethign: heres my idea :
CAP THE DAMAGE at around 4500 or so….4000 minimum and have it never hit less than 1500. 4500 would be the d/d full 100% power dps build and a normal build like d/p or s/d would hit about 3k -3300

ok. i have 4 sets of armor! 5% dmg on each dagger. 30 30 0 0 10 (highest DPS in game) full zerk gear/accs/rules/jewels. ……. wont hit 10k…wont hit 9k…wont hit 8……MIGHT get near 7k. and thats ONLY if you hit another glass cannon. or and upscale could be more depending on what it is! read whatever u want about whatever u want. its like you said we could also do 5 cluster bombs in 2.5 seconds…try more like 5 in 5 seconds……4 trick shots in 1 second? try like 4 in 4 seconds. thief numbers are all whacked. ask any thief

with that same build…u hit a guardian….and dont crit….u might do only 1200 dmg! with a burst build! yeah 1200…iver personally dont it to a guard! go figure.

Infiltrator’s Signet. Not that it matters just use Steal as a gap closer if you need it as a gap closer. Such a wierd hissy fit.

that why people done with this games. you always change their style.
i’m so bored

Travlane.5948:

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s a little odd thematically, but I think it makes sense from a game-play perspective. Their point was that Thieves are too capable at burst and not capable enough anywhere else, which ‘forces’ Thieves into glass cannon builds, and that’s a very accurate assessment. I think that nerfing their burst potential in certain areas while also improving their attrition through healing and mobility is a worthy endeavor.

They are trying to improve Thieves’ survivability and reduce their dependence on having glass cannon spec to do anything.

but this is not the answer….atleast not by itself. they cut 33% of burst dmg and give us like a 12% heal? OMG a heal we wont even use bc we mostly use it as a opener. they had the brass to call it a finishing move….NO NO NO! HS is a finisher! jesus lol isnt that why the dmg goes UP alot as they have less HP? point is to get them to have less HP for skills like HS and executioner / thief infilitrators runes….cmon we all know STEAL is a best opener skill for thieves bc they are melee. all a person would have to doo is run with a bow and keep firing. we need it as a gap closer. warriors have whirl…etc jump…leap… cmon. common sense anet

LOLWAT? Did ANet honestly call Mug a finisher? If that’s true, I am done with this game. TERA has better looking combat anyway I guess, it’s also free now, might try it…

Travlane.5948:

bc if we save steal til the middle of combat we have to find antoehr way to get closer to the enemy….HS? eh that wastest way too much intiative. invis? eh why was intiative/utility skill? shadows step? cmon need to save that for emergency.

Infiltrator’s strike and shadow shot also works for ppl who use sword main or D/P (or both). I never used steal as an opener, always as a finisher. The burst dmg from mug was (for me) meant to quickly burst an enemy down when he’s about to die and activating his heal. (And yes, my mug dmg only did 3k dmg).

I understand that some of you don’t like the change. Was just saying that generalising that every low dmg build relies on high mug dmg was wrong. In duels I rely on healing denial: Headshot, tactical strike, burst when he’s low at health. These things help me beat an enemy. I’m not sure if I’ll like the change or hate it, time and fight experience will tell.

Different topic that was mentioned in here: F1 comparison. You shouldn’t compare our F1 with classes that have 3 or 4 Fskills. Compare it to a warrior, a ranger or a necro (necro’s F1 is good though). Compared to them, the only negative part I rly have with steal is the long cd. Someone here mentioned having venoms on F2-F4. This is something I would rly look forward to. No one actually uses the venoms right now except in venom sharing builds (which have no benefits in tPvP). Problem is that they have to replace 4 skills then with new skills, so implementing this idea would cost them a lot of time. So it won’t be any time soon they’ll implement this (if they would).

Apologies to PvErs. I only WvW with lots of small skirmish roaming.

Thief tears make me so happy I could giggle.

Keep those “nerfs” coming.

I play a thief….

/hugs

@10k Mug

As far as I can tell, a 10k Mug hit in sPvP is possible.

Using the burst build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlcmaOXcS4E/5Ex2DfuTe6VAsaPoZLvJA;TkAg0UcZ4SwllLHXSuGFMJA (Which is an awful build, all glass, no defence)

If you have 25 stacks of Bloodlust + a target below 50% health + 25 stacks of vulnerability + attack from behind + pop all signets (Including heal) and Basalisk Venom for 22 Might stacks + above 6 initiative + against a light armour target with no toughness and no protection and hit with the highest damage roll from weapon damage with a dagger you get:

981 * (2269 + 250 + 770) * (1.5 * 2.03) * 1.9 / 1800 = 10371

Which, while is possible is highly impractical and requires set up from allies (The 25 Vulnerability stacks) and a target that has no defence (Light armour + no toughness nor protection) as well as popping all utilities in a spec that has no defence and no utility and only provides burst.

and in WvW you have higher stats

Give it up, Rayya.

You can’t win against those kind of people with reason. Everytime you make an argument they just strawman around it and proclaim themselves right.

I guess some people are just too clueless, to notice how clueless they really are

Kaizer.7135:

Travlane.5948:

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s a little odd thematically, but I think it makes sense from a game-play perspective. Their point was that Thieves are too capable at burst and not capable enough anywhere else, which ‘forces’ Thieves into glass cannon builds, and that’s a very accurate assessment. I think that nerfing their burst potential in certain areas while also improving their attrition through healing and mobility is a worthy endeavor.

They are trying to improve Thieves’ survivability and reduce their dependence on having glass cannon spec to do anything.

but this is not the answer….atleast not by itself. they cut 33% of burst dmg and give us like a 12% heal? OMG a heal we wont even use bc we mostly use it as a opener. they had the brass to call it a finishing move….NO NO NO! HS is a finisher! jesus lol isnt that why the dmg goes UP alot as they have less HP? point is to get them to have less HP for skills like HS and executioner / thief infilitrators runes….cmon we all know STEAL is a best opener skill for thieves bc they are melee. all a person would have to doo is run with a bow and keep firing. we need it as a gap closer. warriors have whirl…etc jump…leap… cmon. common sense anet

LOLWAT? Did ANet honestly call Mug a finisher? If that’s true, I am done with this game. TERA has better looking combat anyway I guess, it’s also free now, might try it…

yes sir they did. they defined it as usually a skill that characters use to finish off the last bit of enemies. thats why they give it 2k hp now bc its used in the end of combat….didnt you know? (sarcasm lol)

A 2k heal on a skill that is normally used at the beginning of rotation when you don’t need heals? Its a good gap closer and was good for burst thieves, every 45 seconds, but putting a heal on it just feels like a troll.

They could do so much more with mug. Like make it steal boons, or give some reasonable benefit then heal you for 2k when you are at full health, just lol. Its just one more reason not to play d/d anymore. This feels sooo lazy on ANET’s part.

It’s only a small step towards improving the Thief’s survivability. More changes will come.

ski.4927:

Apologies to PvErs. I only WvW with lots of small skirmish roaming.

Thief tears make me so happy I could giggle.

Keep those “nerfs” coming.

I play a thief….

/hugs

^this, but i dont play thief as main for now.

Putting a heal on an opener doesn’t make much sense. Something like 10s Protection/Regen would have been more useful.

Travlane.5948:

ok. i have 4 sets of armor! 5% dmg on each dagger. 30 30 0 0 10 (highest DPS in game) full zerk gear/accs/rules/jewels. ……. wont hit 10k…wont hit 9k…wont hit 8……MIGHT get near 7k. and thats ONLY if you hit another glass cannon. or and upscale could be more depending on what it is! read whatever u want about whatever u want. its like you said we could also do 5 cluster bombs in 2.5 seconds…try more like 5 in 5 seconds……4 trick shots in 1 second? try like 4 in 4 seconds. thief numbers are all whacked. ask any thief

with that same build…u hit a guardian….and dont crit….u might do only 1200 dmg! with a burst build! yeah 1200…iver personally dont it to a guard! go figure.

this boy can teach you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Mug-and-why-it-was-overpowered/first#post1921447
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/66574/mug_1.jpg
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/66575/mug_2.jpg

Rayya.2591:

Travlane.5948:

ok. i have 4 sets of armor! 5% dmg on each dagger. 30 30 0 0 10 (highest DPS in game) full zerk gear/accs/rules/jewels. ……. wont hit 10k…wont hit 9k…wont hit 8……MIGHT get near 7k. and thats ONLY if you hit another glass cannon. or and upscale could be more depending on what it is! read whatever u want about whatever u want. its like you said we could also do 5 cluster bombs in 2.5 seconds…try more like 5 in 5 seconds……4 trick shots in 1 second? try like 4 in 4 seconds. thief numbers are all whacked. ask any thief

with that same build…u hit a guardian….and dont crit….u might do only 1200 dmg! with a burst build! yeah 1200…iver personally dont it to a guard! go figure.

this boy can teach you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Mug-and-why-it-was-overpowered/first#post1921447
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/66574/mug_1.jpg
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/66575/mug_2.jpg

And I can do 150K damage vs a bunny. Please be realistic and post SS of actual geared players and not uplevel 20 who are missing armor or a frenzy warrior.

Yeah, the 2k heal on mug is pointless…it doesn’t even fit the thief.

How about making “Steal/Mug” actually…steal things? Maybe add boon stealing to “steal” too? Or like guy above said, protection/regen would be more useful.

While it may not be a game changer, a 2k heal is an interesting tool to add to the arsenal. I agree with one of the first replies, they could have just nerfed, but they decided to slap then tickle.

To those saying mug was too much for a 10 point major, i’d like to make a point. Look at other F mechanics and what they do without traits.

Necro: 2nd life bar, some CC, gap closer chill and some AoE damage
Guardian: Passive burn/active big burn which allies can apply, small regen/reasonable size heal in aoe, aegis/aoe aegis
Warrior: A powerful burst skill on short CD
Ranger: Control a pet/activate a pet skill
Engineer: A handy toolkit spell, some extremely good
Elementalist: Attunement swaps, essentially refreshing cd’s 1-5 allowing skill spam
Mesmer: Big damage shatter aoe, big aoe confusion, a daze and invuln

…
Thief: A gap closer on the biggest cooldown of all of them that gives, in most cases, a fairly rubbish skill.

It needs to be cheap to improve our class mechanic. It’s fairly rubbish without traits.

I like the mug change but i run p/p and sb so i dont use mug i use the trait that gives me might with the use of venoms. I love might so much o i wonder how much damage mug will do with 25 stacks of might o i can not use steal as an opener and use other skills like shadowstep, scorpion wire or sb skill 5 and weapon swap and save mug for when i need to heal myself very quick or get out of something by targeting other enemy around me omg i kind of like the change o wait i dont use mug in spvp cuz i am d/p i have shadow shot.

Care face. I use 0/30/0/30/10. With runes of lyssa. S/d

randomfightfan.4091:

They felt it needed to be nerfed so they nerfed it. I don’t see the problem. They could have just shaved off the 2k damage it deals but instead they added 2k healing to ease the burn. Sure the healing won’t do much and the damage nerf sucks but the nerf could have been a lot worse.

oh the nerf could have been a lot worse??

and is that Anet is going to say “Aren’t you thankful?”

Mug wasnt nerfed by 2k dmg, my Mug deals MEGA HUGE AWESOME 1400 dmg…
1400 dmg every 45s, oh i forget it heals me for 1980 to 2400, more than it does dmg
yeah best trait ever now
Pre patch i could it for 4k to 6k dmg, sure thats a bit high, but 1400 is too low

When I burst in wvw, I mainly use mug to help “execute” low health players. The main exception is against people who are clearly GC, upleveled, softened, or if I’m spiking a target while running thief as part of a wolf pack.
On other news, 98% of my thief gameplay time is used in PvE. Bosses tend to have hundreds of thousands of hp. Mug isn’t used often, due to the tendency to save steal for the shadowstep utility. With the heal change, mug might see more use after I don’t feel like a never maturing carry for bringing thief to a dungeon party, id est base damage buffs and thief utility rework. Mug is basically VoR active with a lower CD, with an added damage bonus ofc.

@Valthan: lol. 1400 damage is amazing….-ly low. Anet is still l2n (learning to nerf) give them some time. In my opinion, mug should do about 3k to 4k damage with no chance to crit and like a real mugging leave the target knocked down, with weakness, and the thief gets 5 % of money value in player’s bag. Note: gold does not have to be “transferred” from target. That would cause QQ from negligent zerglings forgetting to use their bank.

The devs never said Steal/Mug was a finisher, they said they wanted it to be used in the middle of the rotation, and if you look at all the other Steal traits that makes absolute sense, you can gain 3 initiative + fury, might, swifness, + vigor and 2 boons from the target + 1s daze + 2s stealth and if your target is trying to run away from you cause of low health you can close the gap on a 900 range or 1200 range if traited, all of that on a 34s cooldown skill….

Well I’ve more or less always ran Steal traited on a 20% reduced cooldown, gap closer, ripping boons, giving me Switfness Fury and Vigour, 3 initiative, Damage, poison and now…healing…woohoo.. I never relied on the Damage as burst builds are so last year. Its the best thief ability – and I never opened with it. Additionally it can be traited for a stun if I just dropped last refuge and condition removal in stealth.

As lower as the damage went for Mug, I’m using Sword #2 followed by C&D+Tactical Strike for starters and I’ll only use Mug in mid fight when I need to heal a bit (It’s important to stay topped up as a full zerker) or close the gap with the enemy, it is not a starter anymore and people should not use it was such.

So far I welcomed the extra heal in some situations and didn’t feel the need to change my build(10/30/30/0/0), also most people don’t expect to be hit by “Weak Mug”C&DTactical Strike mid fight and most of the times results in a down.