Guild Wars 2

I have constructed to what I believe is a “Control Thief” due to it’s intentional design to control the pace of the battle and prolong to a degree. This concept is rather successful in the sense that players generally don’t have a long term battle plan, and ultimately fall short after the first initial burst. It utilizes the idea of condition damages, mobility, and control, into one. I have a few videos about it.

Demonstration of it working on Svanir and The Chieftain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSJK6mOiJFI&feature=channel&list=UL

Me talking about it working and how it was derived from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6iQidXKsd4&feature=channel&list=UL

Hopefully people will start to split into different types of thief, instead of the very common burst damage type that is usually complained about on the forums.

Thanks for reading.

Similar to the build I run sometimes. Been around a while However you seem to be getting additional initiative, I personally think the back bone of any pistol dagger build is 30 in shadow arts for the heal. That heal makes a huge difference in pvp.

Snuff.4172:

Similar to the build I run sometimes. Been around a while However you seem to be getting additional initiative, I personally think the back bone of any pistol dagger build is 30 in shadow arts for the heal. That heal makes a huge difference in pvp.

Do you know of any videos of other thieves doing this? I’ve looked around on youtube, and such but I haven’t found anything similar yet. I’m curious to know what other people have done besides the same old, BS, HS, PW, and TG play. I noticed that P/P is gaining popularity but it hasn’t been something that appealed to me due to skills that I find uninteresting.

Also, I’ve tried 30 in Shadow Arts (currently 20) and I couldn’t justify the trait that would synergize with my build, that adds venom to nearby allies. You have to be fairly close for it to trigger and even then most don’t realize that they have received the venom to be able to use it in an efficient way. Of course in a coordinated team, I could see that it could be useful, however I find many tradeoffs too detrimental on myself as a thief and ability to perform. Thank you for a response.

I’m not sure what your build is, but I am working on 30 shadow arts builds at the moment (shadow protector and shadow rejuvenation stacking.. works even better when I use runes of dwayna to extend the regeneration boon) and find that it can work well for control, and especially will synergize with condition damage for that reason. the problem i’m running in to is solving two issues, initiative starvation and condition damage defense, in my condition damage variants. so far my best defense against conditions has been outmitigating their damage since sword mainhand doesn’t have condition damage direct options.

it looks like from the initial fight you’ve got pistol dagger with cloak and dagger usage and the bleed attack. you also have venoms equipped and scorpion wire. i’m more interested the full build and which amulet and runes you have in the setup, maybe rampager which i’m really trying to work in to my final condition damage shadow healing build

there ya go, that is one of my videos. I don’t spend to much time editing lol. I have a few up and probably going to upload a last one tonight as editing the videos gets boring real fast or me.

I’ve been using Pistol/ Dagger since Beta, I love this setup you can have complete control.
I just switch between pistol and dagger, its all I need in any situation.
Its a 0-0-10-30-30 build.
It has heavy condition and despite the fact that this helps me kill, its not effective enough to depend on it so you have to keep moving and drain your target.
I’m thinking instead of condition I’ll go back to power and crit with the same build.
Its about mobility really.

Neat looking build, might give it a try.

The problem is when you run into something with the tag ‘Unstoppable’ on it. Those things make me sad in the dancing dagger…

In terms of play-style, I’m doing a similar build of kiting and slowly dealing DPS, but I focus more on evades and maintaining distance.
While I don’t have as much of an issue with condition-removers/immunities, I have to watch where I evade – Once I ended up aggro’ing 7 mobs… It didn’t end well.

Snuff, that video is interesting! I might try this out. I think you’re also very good, you seem to be very calm with your game play.

I also like your very cool looking Asura!

I run P/D & D/D as well with a condition build (almost all rampager’s). 10/0/30/30/0. Stealth Heal, BlindPowder, Refuge, Sig Shadows, Guild.

It’s really amazing for WvW roaming. I’ve been able to kill people right in the the middle of a zerg. All the popping in and out of stealth/healing and avoidance you are just really hard to kill. I use the runes that give 100% endurance on heal so endo is very plentiful.

I’m thinking of ditching blinding power for haste purely for finishers though because 1v3+ is impossible to stomp people if they all rez them which most do now. Blinding power saves my kitten from burst warriors and thieves when my auto shadow step is down though so it will be a painful change :/

I’ve made a diagram linking the build and it’s relationship to what I consider the most important aspects: Condition Damage, Stealth, Mobility, and Immobilization.

Condition Damage: This links to many aspects of the build, specifically the bleeds and venoms. Bleeds are applied almost solely through the pistol. When stealthed, you have the opportunity to apply 5 stacks of bleed to the target opponent along with a decent amount of damage. Also, the application of poison with Spider Venom can have devastating effects on the opponents ability to heal as well as doing large amounts of damage over a long period of time. Minor traits such as Serpent’s Touch, Lotus Poison, and Exposed Weakness all have a powerful ability to enhance your opportunity to apply large amounts of damage to the opponent if they are unable to remove them. By specifying in both Deadly Arts and Trickery you increase condition duration and condition damage.

Stealth: A distinguishing ability of the profession, it is extremely effective at keeping you alive as well as applying damage. Abilities such as Cloak and Dagger are extremely useful, keeping you consistently stealth so long as you have the initiative. Cloak and Dagger can often be used on non-important targets such as NPCs so that you may remained stealth without getting close to the opponent or to escape. Traits such as Last Refuge and Meld with Shadows are extremely useful in keeping you alive as well as prolonging the battle. It is significant especially in Meld with Shadows, as every extra second stealthed means that you are another second closer to using your next immobilization ability as soon as it comes off cooldown. And of course, the ability Hide in Shadows (heal), is extremely versatile as it serves many purposes for the Thief and his ability to outperform other classes. If you use the trait Hidden Thief, stealing can also be an effective tool to not only shadowstep and stealth to an opponent to finish them off quickly but also to escape; it is a powerful trait to utilize.

Mobility: The ability to shadowstep towards or away from a target opponent is of great importance for a Thief. Abilities like Shadow Strike allow you to bounce away from an oncoming melee class very effectively. Using traits such as Thrill of the Crime which gives you swiftness is when stealing is an effective way to either escape or travel quickly across the map. I’ve also used Basilisk Venom as a type of mobility. When I use The Rune of Lyssa, casting an elite skill gives me all boons and removes all conditions. This is extremely effective for many reasons, as it obviously gives swiftness, and removes all movement impairing conditions, but, coupled with the 20% reduction of venom (Quick Venoms) AND the 45 second application of Basilisk Venom with a 36 second cooldown means that you can always have Basilisk Venom ready while getting all boons almost every 36 seconds. HOWEVER, there is an unseen cooldown on this ability despite the lack of it in the description of Rune of Lyssa. I believe the cooldown for that to work is about 60 seconds, so theoretically get all boons ever 60 seconds, which is still pretty amazing. It is also of great importance to mention the mobility offered by the Shortbow. Infiltrator’s Arrow allows you to travel an extra 900 distance for the cost of 6 initiative. You can even travel up slopes in many areas, giving you a great advantage of mobility.

Immobilization: The ability to lock the opponent in place is the backbone of this build. Devourer Venom, Basilisk Venom and Scorpion Wire are what do this. With the Grandmaster trait in Deadly Arts, Residual Venom, you can greatly increase the duration for which you can lock an opponent. With Devourer Venom alone, you can hit the opponent for 3 strikes, each immobilizing for 2.5 seconds each for a total of 7.5 seconds. This is huge, as it literally gives you 7.5 seconds of soaking of condition damage, usually the prevention of damage, and the chance to apply additional damage. Basilisk Venom gets 2 strikes, each for 1 second. This is great to completely prevent an chance of the opponent casting while you can perform and setup the entire battle from that alone. Scorpion Wire is great as it can pull opponents from high ground, pull them from escaping, or just to interrupt them and allow you to perform Cloak and Daggers. Scorpion has a short coodown duration of only 24 seconds if you have the trait Trickster, which is very useful.

These are the main synergetic ideas that this build is based off. Hopefully the diagram isn’t too confusing. The lines are meant to indicate that they have a direct relationship to one or more of the main aspects of the build: Condition Damage, Stealth, Mobility, and Immobilization. Thanks for reading, and commenting on this thread, there are some really good ideas posted above for builds. I felt it was important to share my experience with thief as well, as best I can.

I really appreciate you breaking it all down.

Vile, I can see you’re not using Venomous Aura (which is the only viable reason I’ve found to using it and that’s only for PvP), so why don’t you use Dagger Storm instead?

From what I’ve seen, Basilisk Venom is only superior in two aspects.

1. It can interrupt casts.
2. It can be used underwater.

Interrupting isn’t something people can do often, and underwater fighting makes a mess of everyone’s build (since no one thinks much about underwater combat. :P)

- So in both cases, Basilisk Venom is highly situational.

Dagger Storm is a much more impacting skill, both in fighting against single OR multiple targets (whether PvP or PvE), even when accounting for cooldown.
And the synergy it has with the Lyssa Rune is much more potent.

Is this build supposed to be for PvE or PvP?

If it’s purely for PvE, I’d recommend using Ice Drake Venom instead. Poison Venom is more suited to people building DPS who want to make sure their damage sticks.

You claim this is a “Control” thief build, but from what I can tell, there’s more control effects to be utilized.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Vile, I can see you’re not using Venomous Aura (which is the only viable reason I’ve found to using it and that’s only for PvP), so why don’t you use Dagger Storm instead?

From what I’ve seen, Basilisk Venom is only superior in two aspects.

1. It can interrupt casts.
2. It can be used underwater.

Interrupting isn’t something people can do often, and underwater fighting makes a mess of everyone’s build (since no one thinks much about underwater combat. :P)

- So in both cases, Basilisk Venom is highly situational.

Dagger Storm is a much more impacting skill, both in fighting against single OR multiple targets (whether PvP or PvE), even when accounting for cooldown.
And the synergy it has with the Lyssa Rune is much more potent.

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Is this build supposed to be for PvE or PvP?

If it’s purely for PvE, I’d recommend using Ice Drake Venom instead. Poison Venom is more suited to people building DPS who want to make sure their damage sticks.

You claim this is a “Control” thief build, but from what I can tell, there’s more control effects to be utilized.

I did run Venomous Aura for a while actually, and the problem I ran into was how close you had to be with allies. You have to literally be standing right next to them for it to work, which is a pain and usually means you can’t share it effectively. Also, usually I played it with sPvP, which means there’s a lack of coordination, and most of the time people don’t know that they have venoms even applied, and completely waste them by auto-attacking into nothing the venom disappeared before they could use it. I often found it too impractical. The only thing I could imagine it being useful is a coordinated team, but even then it wouldn’t be as useful because unless ran to 2 or more people to give it to them, you could have the additional venom strike due to Residual Venom, which is the equivalence of having an extra person using venom from Venomous Aura.

Regarding Basilisk Venom: To me, the ability the interrupt an enemy is extremely powerful. When well timed, it can completely turn the tide of the battle, whether it be a well timed prevention of a heal, preventing the opponent from finishing off an ally, or even stopping burst attacks like Bull Rush and such (which it can). The ability to do interrupt 3 times, twice with Basilisk Venom and once with Scorpion Wire is huge. I’ve found it to be effective against high healing classes like Guardian, as you can severally hurt their ability to heal correctly. Dagger Storm is effective, but you do lose control of the opponents, as they often dodge away, get out of range and escape. The longer 90 second cooldown doesn’t make me want to use it either when I can get all boons and remove conditions in half that time. Also, I tested the Rune of Lyssa, and it’s every 45 seconds you can activate it, which is very frequently, and the Venom actually applies for an entire 45 seconds, so you can constantly have Basilisk Venom and get the boons and removing conditions whenever you apply it. For me it’s proved to be a very powerful tool, in controlling my opponents.

I did also use Ice Drake Venom, but I didn’t like the very short duration of chill. Chill is veeeeeery good, but I feel like if I steal from an Elementalist, I can get a much more powerful chill attack. I prefer Scorpion Wire over it because it brings the opponent to me, can take them off high grounds, and interrupts. When they are brought to me, I use Cloak and Dagger, then sneak attack, thus throwing them into the heat of battle whether they are ready or not. From there I can control them with my other venoms and abilities. I’ve used it in PvE, but I almost exclusively play sPvP as I got bored with the campaign and PvE in general. Most of my friends have moved on from GW2 for the time being anyways, so it’s hard to get a group together. Thanks for commenting.

Ty spart. Yeah you have to be patient as it is a bleed build, against certain classes you have to be aggressive but against most it is just about waiting until they are dead. My build is based around a balance of DPS and Survivability, I did a lot of testing yesterday and move some things around along with redoing my runes. I “thought” I ran the best build for this play style but now changed it and think I now run the best build for this playstyle… Of course next week… lol

Here is a new vid.

Great vid of bashing sub-80 new players……………………………………………………………………………..

And running from a 2v1…………………

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thief#10|3|2642|2788|6677|8743|11435|20|1738|1714|0|0|0|0|0|30|750|2198|751|5|0|0|0|15|786|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|49957|49957|49957|49957|53490|25903|48790|0|0|0|0|

This is my build for P/D.
One major difference is the amount of utility I get from stealth., when I stealth I heal, blind and cure conditions, as this build relies a lot on stealth I get a lot of condition removal and healing from it.

I think the 5 points in acrobatics for the swiftness on dodge is invaluable and comes in handy for getting away / catching opponents.

I only go 20 into deadly arts because I think those last 10 points are better spent elsewhere.