Guild Wars 2

So I was in WvW most of the night and noticed a lot of thieves using the perma-stealth pistol build (I think it’s called the Wild Bill build?) . I saw no less than three thieves who were able to do the following solo:

a) take supply camps
b) wipe groups of 3-4 competent players while losing less than 50% health
c) engage a group of 6 determined players for 20 minutes without dying

So, while fighting these thieves over and over, I realized precisely what makes stealth so overpowered:

Its ability to interrupt your current skills in progress.

I lost count of the number of times that I targeted a thief, cast Dark Pact to try to immobilize them, but before the skill could even finish casting, poof, he’s gone, and my skill suddenly stops in mid-cast and my skill timer resets. If I had at least been able to successfully cast my spell, I could’ve still laid some AOE down on his last location, landed some successful hits with my dagger, or at least done something to inflict some damage, but no.

So how about this? Add a rule that allows skills-in-progress to connect against a player even if they enter stealth before your skill is finished casting. After that, you lose target as usual. I think that would at least give regular players a fighting chance against these builds, because right now any skill that does not have an instantaneous casting time is useless due to the fact that these thieves typically only unstealth for a single second or less.

In short, I do not believe that nerfing the Thief’s skills (duration, recharge time, etc) is necessarily the way to fix the stealth abuse issue. It seems to me that the stealth mechanic itself that needs to be looked at and reworked.

-PT

PeterThomas.7243:

So I was in WvW most of the night and noticed a lot of thieves using the perma-stealth pistol build (I think it’s called the Wild Bill build?) . I saw no less than three thieves who were able to do the following solo:

a) take supply camps
b) wipe groups of 3-4 competent players while losing less than 50% health
c) engage a group of 6 determined players for 20 minutes without dying

So, while fighting these thieves over and over, I realized precisely what makes stealth so overpowered:

Its ability to interrupt your current skills in progress.

I lost count of the number of times that I targeted a thief, cast Dark Pact to try to immobilize them, but before the skill could even finish casting, poof, he’s gone, and my skill suddenly stops in mid-cast and my skill timer resets. If I had at least been able to successfully cast my spell, I could’ve still laid some AOE down on his last location, landed some successful hits with my dagger, or at least done something to inflict some damage, but no.

So how about this? Add a rule that allows skills-in-progress to connect against a player even if they enter stealth before your skill is finished casting. After that, you lose target as usual. I think that would at least give regular players a fighting chance against these builds, because right now any skill that does not have an instantaneous casting time is useless due to the fact that these thieves typically only unstealth for a single second or less.

In short, I do not believe that nerfing the Thief’s skills (duration, recharge time, etc) is necessarily the way to fix the stealth abuse issue. It seems to me that the stealth mechanic itself that needs to be looked at and reworked.

-PT

a) thief is mediocre at solo supply camp, an warrior can do it 3 times faster, an mesmer can do it 2 times faster, and ele /necro’s can solo an supply camp in less then 1 minute.
Not to mention that an thief can solo only unupgraded supply camp. an 150 Supply camp would be already dificult for an thief to solo, and an 200-250 one imposible.
b) How ? Even if he do 10.000 / every hit , the other 3 can almost instant ress the downed player.
c) engage an group of 6 unexperienced players? anytime. Engage 3 good players he die in less then 5 seconds.

So your skills have over 3 seconds cast time, so the Thief is stealthed again before they finish?

What needs a fix is that skills in fact get interrupted properly when a Thief stealthes.

It’s so annying to use pretty much my only defense as Thief, while Rangers just keep shooting at me, Elementalists still shock me, and Mesmers, well, still pink me to death.
Even more annoying, it even gives away my position, besides killing me on it’s own.

I’m stealthed, how do they still know where to shoot/beam at with their channeled attack while im invisible?
It doesn’t make sense, and since stealth doesn’t reduce dmg or anything, it takes away the whole effect of stealth, besides getting targetet by new attacks which need a target for 3 seconds.
You are still getting hit by skills casted at you before stealth, they still can see where you at (just fallow the beam/arrows, it’s pretty easy to see where a beam etc stops), and you still get hit by all non target skills.

So if anybody is around with a channeled attack, whats the point of even going into stealth?

Stealth needs to properly drop target and cancel abilities!

A Thief permanently stealthed isn’t doing anything, and a Thief getting revealed can be locked down.

PeterThomas.7243:

If I had at least been able to successfully cast my spell, I could’ve still laid some AOE down on his last location, landed some successful hits with my dagger, or at least done something to inflict some damage, but no.

No? Pretty sure you can still AOE and swing weapon around regardless of stealth. Both of which would do damage if they connected.

urdriel.8496:

Asum.4960:

A Thief permanently stealthed isn’t doing anything, and a Thief getting revealed can be locked down.

You can stealth, kill a dude with a combo (i saw 2 or 3 thieves using macros to kill faster), and restealth because you can stealth IN COMBAT, the real issue is that thieves can use stealth in combat mode, first game i see that you can use a stelath skill while fighting, ah, and ofc , the eternal bug of render…, at least thief should receive a movement speed debuff while stealthed but, actually they have a perk to run faster in stealth mode so….

PeterThomas.7243:

So I was in WvW most of the night and noticed a lot of thieves using the perma-stealth pistol build (I think it’s called the Wild Bill build?) . I saw no less than three thieves who were able to do the following solo:

a) take supply camps
b) wipe groups of 3-4 competent players while losing less than 50% health
c) engage a group of 6 determined players for 20 minutes without dying

So, while fighting these thieves over and over, I realized precisely what makes stealth so overpowered:

Its ability to interrupt your current skills in progress.

I lost count of the number of times that I targeted a thief, cast Dark Pact to try to immobilize them, but before the skill could even finish casting, poof, he’s gone, and my skill suddenly stops in mid-cast and my skill timer resets. If I had at least been able to successfully cast my spell, I could’ve still laid some AOE down on his last location, landed some successful hits with my dagger, or at least done something to inflict some damage, but no.

So how about this? Add a rule that allows skills-in-progress to connect against a player even if they enter stealth before your skill is finished casting. After that, you lose target as usual. I think that would at least give regular players a fighting chance against these builds, because right now any skill that does not have an instantaneous casting time is useless due to the fact that these thieves typically only unstealth for a single second or less.

In short, I do not believe that nerfing the Thief’s skills (duration, recharge time, etc) is necessarily the way to fix the stealth abuse issue. It seems to me that the stealth mechanic itself that needs to be looked at and reworked.

-PT

a) My warrior can solo camps by itself. Thieves require far more to be able to do it.
b) They weren’t competent, then. Thieves are easy to kill, especially if they’re glass cannon builds. Use some sort of CC and focus one at a time. A group of three people could easily be communicating and targetting, whereas the other group may have not been as coordinated.
c) Once again, a L2P issue. Thieves are extremely squishy and die fast. All it would take is AoE to take three people out against 6.

Stealth also doesn’t interrupt skills in progress. This is the complaint by thieves. For example, if you stealth while a Longbow Ranger is using Rapid Fire, every single arrow will hit you while in stealth. I don’t think you even know what you’re talking about with this part.

Stealth also doesn’t interrupt skills in progress. This is the complaint by thieves. For example, if you stealth while a Longbow Ranger is using Rapid Fire, every single arrow will hit you while in stealth. I don’t think you even know what you’re talking about with this part.

buahahahaa Rapid Fire is interrupt when you go stealth. Stop talking liers. If RF always hit then I know where you are but RF is rupt and dont lie.

urdriel.8496:

urdriel.8496:

Asum.4960:

A Thief permanently stealthed isn’t doing anything, and a Thief getting revealed can be locked down.

You can stealth, kill a dude with a combo (i saw 2 or 3 thieves using macros to kill faster), and restealth because you can stealth IN COMBAT, the real issue is that thieves can use stealth in combat mode, first game i see that you can use a stelath skill while fighting, ah, and ofc , the eternal bug of render…, at least thief should receive a movement speed debuff while stealthed but, actually they have a perk to run faster in stealth mode so….

Many games allow you to stealth while in combat, WoW Swtor i think Aion but im not sure about that one. If they implemented a slow to thiefs in stealth it would make backstab impossible to land on any good player, the problem i see mostly is the second a thief stealths people just sit there or back peddle.

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Stealth also doesn’t interrupt skills in progress. This is the complaint by thieves. For example, if you stealth while a Longbow Ranger is using Rapid Fire, every single arrow will hit you while in stealth. I don’t think you even know what you’re talking about with this part.

buahahahaa Rapid Fire is interrupt when you go stealth. Stop talking liers. If RF always hit then I know where you are but RF is rupt and dont lie.

it isnt interrupted unless he walks behind you.

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Stealth also doesn’t interrupt skills in progress. This is the complaint by thieves. For example, if you stealth while a Longbow Ranger is using Rapid Fire, every single arrow will hit you while in stealth. I don’t think you even know what you’re talking about with this part.

buahahahaa Rapid Fire is interrupt when you go stealth. Stop talking liers. If RF always hit then I know where you are but RF is rupt and dont lie.

I don’t even think you play this game that often. This is, once again, one of the biggest complaints about stealth by thieves. If you’re using a channeling ability, stealth does not interrupt it. Hopefully the bold will help you understand.

mickers.2715:

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Stealth also doesn’t interrupt skills in progress. This is the complaint by thieves. For example, if you stealth while a Longbow Ranger is using Rapid Fire, every single arrow will hit you while in stealth. I don’t think you even know what you’re talking about with this part.

buahahahaa Rapid Fire is interrupt when you go stealth. Stop talking liers. If RF always hit then I know where you are but RF is rupt and dont lie.

it isnt interrupted unless he walks behind you.

RF is rupt (stop do dmg and fire in space) in stealth moment

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

RF is rupt (stop do dmg and fire in space) in stealth moment

You honestly have no idea what you’re talking about, and that’s fine, but do not give out false information.

Rapid Fire is not interrupted. Neither is Kill Shot, or many other channeled abilities. If you manage to break line of sight by hiding behind a wall or getting behind the target, then it is interrupted, but simply stealthing does not stop the ability.

mickers.2715:

urdriel.8496:

urdriel.8496:

Asum.4960:

A Thief permanently stealthed isn’t doing anything, and a Thief getting revealed can be locked down.

You can stealth, kill a dude with a combo (i saw 2 or 3 thieves using macros to kill faster), and restealth because you can stealth IN COMBAT, the real issue is that thieves can use stealth in combat mode, first game i see that you can use a stelath skill while fighting, ah, and ofc , the eternal bug of render…, at least thief should receive a movement speed debuff while stealthed but, actually they have a perk to run faster in stealth mode so….

Many games allow you to stealth while in combat, WoW Swtor i think Aion but im not sure about that one. If they implemented a slow to thiefs in stealth it would make backstab impossible to land on any good player, the problem i see mostly is the second a thief stealths people just sit there or back peddle.

if you take damage while stealthed in WoW stealth status is removed , You CANT STEALTH in combat in WoW, you must exit from combat or run 5-10 sec to be able to restealth (last wow i played was BC), and yes , have sense that you have same or improved speed in stealth…. you can sit or you can run, the thief will catch you anyway, because he run faster than you
(stealthed or not)

Leriff.8362:

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

RF is rupt (stop do dmg and fire in space) in stealth moment

You honestly have no idea what you’re talking about, and that’s fine, but do not give out false information.

Rapid Fire is not interrupted. Neither is Kill Shot, or many other channeled abilities. If you manage to break line of sight by hiding behind a wall or getting behind the target, then it is interrupted, but simply stealthing does not stop the ability.

get your ranger and go to wvw and show me how you give thief your all arrows from RF when thief go stealt.
Im w8 for your video.

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

get your ranger and go to wvw and show me how you give thief your all arrows from RF when thief go stealt.
Im w8 for your video.

Literally spend five minutes researching your silly point and you’ll realize it’s been a thing since beta. Channeled abilities continue through stealth.

What the hell does it matter how the stealth mechanics work in other games?
How does that even contribute to the discussion of stealth (actually not) interrupting abilities in GW 2?

Thats like stating a Spinfuser shot in Tribals does more damage than a MG shot in CoD, there fore Spinfusers are OP in Tribals, since they are both guns, right?

Mind. Blown.

AOE damage should break stealth; problem fixed.

beat me to it asum

urdriel.8496:

mickers.2715:

urdriel.8496:

urdriel.8496:

Asum.4960:

A Thief permanently stealthed isn’t doing anything, and a Thief getting revealed can be locked down.

You can stealth, kill a dude with a combo (i saw 2 or 3 thieves using macros to kill faster), and restealth because you can stealth IN COMBAT, the real issue is that thieves can use stealth in combat mode, first game i see that you can use a stelath skill while fighting, ah, and ofc , the eternal bug of render…, at least thief should receive a movement speed debuff while stealthed but, actually they have a perk to run faster in stealth mode so….

Many games allow you to stealth while in combat, WoW Swtor i think Aion but im not sure about that one. If they implemented a slow to thiefs in stealth it would make backstab impossible to land on any good player, the problem i see mostly is the second a thief stealths people just sit there or back peddle.

if you take damage while stealthed in WoW stealth status is removed , You CANT STEALTH in combat in WoW, you must exit from combat or run 5-10 sec to be able to restealth (last wow i played was BC), and yes , have sense that you have same or improved speed in stealth…. you can sit or you can run, the thief will catch you anyway, because he run faster than you
(stealthed or not)

You can use the ability vanish in WoW , vanish keeps you in stealth for a few seconds even if you are taking damage, plus you dont take into account that in wow you cant spam your autoattack/cleave you need a target to use abilities. Also more recently in wow rogues move faster in stealth than any other characters normal movement speed , also said stealth out of combat is PERMANENT.

also for the person who wanted a video of rapid fire hitting someone in stealth.

Asum.4960:

What the hell does it matter how the stealth mechanics work in other games?
How does that even contribute to the discussion of stealth (actually not) interrupting abilities in GW 2?

Thats like stating a Spinfuser shot in Tribals does more damage than a MG shot in CoD, there fore Spinfusers are OP in Tribals, since they are both guns, right?

Mind. Blown.

it matter, because i had been playing MMORPGs for more than 15years, and the stealth mechanic of GW2 is OP, to be able to stealth while you are fighting is OP, the culling/render bug is OP, and 99% QQs about thieves is because Stealth mechanic sucks in GW2.

mickers.2715:

urdriel.8496:

mickers.2715:

urdriel.8496:

urdriel.8496:

Asum.4960:

A Thief permanently stealthed isn’t doing anything, and a Thief getting revealed can be locked down.

You can stealth, kill a dude with a combo (i saw 2 or 3 thieves using macros to kill faster), and restealth because you can stealth IN COMBAT, the real issue is that thieves can use stealth in combat mode, first game i see that you can use a stelath skill while fighting, ah, and ofc , the eternal bug of render…, at least thief should receive a movement speed debuff while stealthed but, actually they have a perk to run faster in stealth mode so….

Many games allow you to stealth while in combat, WoW Swtor i think Aion but im not sure about that one. If they implemented a slow to thiefs in stealth it would make backstab impossible to land on any good player, the problem i see mostly is the second a thief stealths people just sit there or back peddle.

if you take damage while stealthed in WoW stealth status is removed , You CANT STEALTH in combat in WoW, you must exit from combat or run 5-10 sec to be able to restealth (last wow i played was BC), and yes , have sense that you have same or improved speed in stealth…. you can sit or you can run, the thief will catch you anyway, because he run faster than you
(stealthed or not)

You can use the ability vanish in WoW , vanish keeps you in stealth for a few seconds even if you are taking damage, plus you dont take into account that in wow you cant spam your autoattack/cleave you need a target to use abilities. Also more recently in wow rogues move faster in stealth than any other characters normal movement speed , also said stealth out of combat is PERMANENT.

also for the person who wanted a video of rapid fire hitting someone in stealth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOYlJ1rPQAM

Vanish -> 3 min Cd for a 3 sec ability.
Stealth is not invisibility. You can be detected by others. Monsters that detect you may stop in their tracks and turn to face you, or attack you directly. Players that detect you will hear a sound, and will be able to target you. The chance of detection increases as you get closer, but also depends on the viewing angle (stand right in front of an enemy and you can guarantee they’ll see you), the relative levels, and any perception or subtlety modifiers.
Taking any action such as looting or attacking will remove stealth. There are a few exceptions, such as Distract, or Pickpocketing. Also as of patch 2.1.0, sapping an opponent does not remove the rogue’s stealth.
Most damage taken (including from AoEs or DoTs) will remove Stealth. However, fall damage will NOT remove Stealth.
Fear AoE’s and certain other AoE’s will remove Stealth.
Enemies much higher in level will tend to see through Stealth from quite a distance.
Enemies you are in front of will see through Stealth as you get closer.
You cannot enter stealth while in combat. However, Rogues can use Vanish to equivalent effect. Note that if you have a DoT the Stealth will break the next time it damages you.

Stealth is balanced in WoW, here not, this is not a match between WoW and GW2 , but Anet MUST to balance the stealth or at least, the stealth spam.

In GW2 stealth is balanced around the very idea of frequent in combat stealth.

..there’s nothing left to say, theres no argument, no nothing. It’s a simple fact.
How stealth works in WoW, Crysis, or some random IOS toilet game is completely irrelevant to stealth in GW2.

I will leave this discussion here, since i already got warned by a Moderator for trolling.
I guess ArenaNet wants to promote a different behavior in GW 2 than they did for 7 years in GW, which is reasonable from the point of view of actual trolls being a larger customer base than engaged theory crafters.

Well, good luck with that community then, and good luck with rivaling League of Legends in the category of worst game community on earth.

(And still, that WoW has a out of combat stealth mechanic isn’t a argument in any way that in combat stealth in GW2 is over powered. They still aren’t related in any way besides being both called stealth)

Asum.4960:

In GW2 stealth is balanced around the very idea of FREQUENT combat stealth.

Yep, frequent, but now is something like 75% stealth 25% no…..

urdriel.8496:

Asum.4960:

In GW2 stealth is balanced around the very idea of FREQUENT combat stealth.

Yep, frequent, but now is something like 75% stealth 25% no…..

And your argument is..?

Asum.4960:

urdriel.8496:

Asum.4960:

In GW2 stealth is balanced around the very idea of FREQUENT combat stealth.

Yep, frequent, but now is something like 75% stealth 25% no…..

And your argument is..?

argument is ? Is not balanced ?

Zgroza Czarnych.6190:

Asum.4960:

urdriel.8496:

Asum.4960:

In GW2 stealth is balanced around the very idea of FREQUENT combat stealth.

Yep, frequent, but now is something like 75% stealth 25% no…..

And your argument is..?

argument is ? Is not balanced ?

Thats a assertion. Not a argument.

/E:

I’ll give you a fundamental advice for intellectual discussions:

“Because of…”

You can’t honestly believe that if you say “this is OP”, i just say “OK, if you say so, it must be”.

The argument is simple, fix asap the render issue or change stealth , you can choose, but half times i fight against a rogue 1vs1 , i can see in combat log, unknown hit you for X(hi render/stealth bug).

urdriel.8496:

The argument is simple, fix asap the render issue or change stealth , you can choose, but half times i fight against a rogue 1vs1 , i can see in combat log, unknown hit you for X(hi render/stealth bug).

Hmmm, fix a game bug or nerf an entire profession into uselessness. Tough call, right?

urdriel.8496:

The argument is simple, fix asap the render issue or change stealth , you can choose, but half times i fight against a rogue 1vs1 , i can see in combat log, unknown hit you for X(hi render/stealth bug).

This render issue is only in WvW right? i never really noticed a problem in Spvp on my ele.

Dunno why a couple people have noted that thieves have issues soloing supply camps. Maybe glass cannon assassin thieves. I’ve downed upgraded supply camps in less than a minute just like most professions can. For thieves you just pile them onto some caltrops, AE them, then pop dagger storm to finish. They’re NPCs, they can’t even hit you unless you stand in place.

Tulisin.6945:

Dunno why a couple people have noted that thieves have issues soloing supply camps. Maybe glass cannon assassin thieves. I’ve downed upgraded supply camps in less than a minute just like most professions can. For thieves you just pile them onto some caltrops, AE them, then pop dagger storm to finish. They’re NPCs, they can’t even hit you unless you stand in place.

i told i got problems to solo upgraded supply camp (with zealot and canibalist)
i want to see that
an 250 supply camp solo in less then 2 minutes, you sayed 1 minute

Interesting discussion here…however, this morning we were doing the jumping puzzle in EB. Got caught by a thief who immediately hit Alt + F4 and left the game; same thief showed up not long after to continue his attack.

With 4 toons attacking the thief when he suddenly disappeared, all of us were irritated because the thief’s health bar never moved down.

This person obviously is a very good player and is using a function that drops you from the game at a critical moment so that you can get back in shortly after without taking any damage. I have no idea how he did it.

The conversation on our team circled around the fact that stealth seemed not to be working properly but was aggravated by the fact said player just dropped from the game.

Not disconnected like happens sometimes, just pressed Alt + F4 and closed the game when he got into trouble, only to reappear shortly afterward to take up the attack he himself avoided to begin with.

This tactic does not seem like something Anet intended to be working as a function of battle.

magicthighs.5372:

urdriel.8496:

The argument is simple, fix asap the render issue or change stealth , you can choose, but half times i fight against a rogue 1vs1 , i can see in combat log, unknown hit you for X(hi render/stealth bug).

Hmmm, fix a game bug or nerf an entire profession into uselessness. Tough call, right?

i said change, not remove…

mickers.2715:

urdriel.8496:

The argument is simple, fix asap the render issue or change stealth , you can choose, but half times i fight against a rogue 1vs1 , i can see in combat log, unknown hit you for X(hi render/stealth bug).

This render issue is only in WvW right? i never really noticed a problem in Spvp on my ele.

sometimes in Spvp too.

mickers.2715:

urdriel.8496:

The argument is simple, fix asap the render issue or change stealth , you can choose, but half times i fight against a rogue 1vs1 , i can see in combat log, unknown hit you for X(hi render/stealth bug).

This render issue is only in WvW right? i never really noticed a problem in Spvp on my ele.

sometimes in Spvp too.

No, actually, it never occurs in s/tPvP because there’s a maximum of 16 players on the map at any given time and very rarely are they all in the same area. The game systems are more than capable of handling 16 players.

Don’t post false information, especially when you’re clearly biased.

How to fix stealth:

Make hits visible (aka numbers showing on screen rather than looking at your battle log). Now you’ll know when you are hitting the thief and if you don’t…Too bad! You’ve got outplayed.

Asomal.6453:

How to fix stealth:

Make hits visible (aka numbers showing on screen rather than looking at your battle log). Now you’ll know when you are hitting the thief and if you don’t…Too bad! You’ve got outplayed.

I totally agree with this. Although condition damage would probably pop off numbers the same way and would sort of make stealth only useful to break targeting.

Asomal.6453:

How to fix stealth:

Make hits visible (aka numbers showing on screen rather than looking at your battle log). Now you’ll know when you are hitting the thief and if you don’t…Too bad! You’ve got outplayed.

This has been brought up a lot and I agree in some respects. The mechanics are already there in procs, auto chains, and combat log to see when you’ve hit an enemy, but I think extending it to any and all damage would be going a bit too far, especially considering condition damage.

My recommendation would be to allow all critical hits to be visible on stealthed targets. This further incentivizes precision as a counter-stealth stat and means there won’t be issues with conditions completely negating stealth by showing a continuous small stream of damage.

lynspottery.6529:

Interesting discussion here…however, this morning we were doing the jumping puzzle in EB. Got caught by a thief who immediately hit Alt + F4 and left the game; same thief showed up not long after to continue his attack.

With 4 toons attacking the thief when he suddenly disappeared, all of us were irritated because the thief’s health bar never moved down.

This person obviously is a very good player and is using a function that drops you from the game at a critical moment so that you can get back in shortly after without taking any damage. I have no idea how he did it.

The conversation on our team circled around the fact that stealth seemed not to be working properly but was aggravated by the fact said player just dropped from the game.

Not disconnected like happens sometimes, just pressed Alt + F4 and closed the game when he got into trouble, only to reappear shortly afterward to take up the attack he himself avoided to begin with.

This tactic does not seem like something Anet intended to be working as a function of battle.

If you log off or Alt+f4, or anything of the sort in WvW, you are taken out of WvW. You must reenter manually.

Caelib.2497:

AOE damage should break stealth; problem fixed.

That would totally neuter the thief class.

You can already damage us in stealth, removing stealth on dmg would eradicate our only means of defense.

Thieves have at maximum 4 ways to enter stealth:

cloak and dagger
shadow refuge
blinding powder
healing skill

Each one of these has limitations, that, if you know them, are easily exploited to the thieves demise.

Cloak and dagger – they have to be in melee range
Shadow refuge – have to stay in the aoe circle for at least 2 seconds for the stealth effect to take hold, has a big HOUSE that says im right here, and lasts for 8 seconds additional.
Blinding powder stealths you for a good 3 seconds, thats it.
Healing Skill stealth, same deal about 3 seconds of stealth.

All these things have cooldowns.

If a thief is specced for improved move speed in stealth, and +1 second on stealth skills, ya…it can add up. but then he is doing no dmg because he speced into the defensive trees.

Incurafy.6329:

mickers.2715:

urdriel.8496:

The argument is simple, fix asap the render issue or change stealth , you can choose, but half times i fight against a rogue 1vs1 , i can see in combat log, unknown hit you for X(hi render/stealth bug).

This render issue is only in WvW right? i never really noticed a problem in Spvp on my ele.

sometimes in Spvp too.

No, actually, it never occurs in s/tPvP because there’s a maximum of 16 players on the map at any given time and very rarely are they all in the same area. The game systems are more than capable of handling 16 players.

Don’t post false information, especially when you’re clearly biased.

The render bug exist in Spvp, not is false information……it is not about your pc, it is about the game engine.

urdriel.8496:

Incurafy.6329:

mickers.2715:

urdriel.8496:

The argument is simple, fix asap the render issue or change stealth , you can choose, but half times i fight against a rogue 1vs1 , i can see in combat log, unknown hit you for X(hi render/stealth bug).

This render issue is only in WvW right? i never really noticed a problem in Spvp on my ele.

sometimes in Spvp too.

No, actually, it never occurs in s/tPvP because there’s a maximum of 16 players on the map at any given time and very rarely are they all in the same area. The game systems are more than capable of handling 16 players.

Don’t post false information, especially when you’re clearly biased.

The render bug exist in Spvp, not is false information……it is not about your pc, it is about the game engine.

Thats what many people fail to realize and it drives me nuts. Before any discussion of “fixing” or nerfing thieves stealth first the culling issue needs to be addressed.

If culling was fixed there would be no “perma stealth” (unless a group of 3+ thieves or more really wanna tunnel along slow as a slug shadow refuge’ing across wvw)

PeterThomas.7243:

So how about this? Add a rule that allows skills-in-progress to connect against a player even if they enter stealth before your skill is finished casting. After that, you lose target as usual.

Another failsauce fix. For one that would be a huge change in coding…and for the worse. The whole point in gw2 combat is that you have the ability to use objects around you to hide from damage. Nothing is more daft then poking out from behind a wall and hitting someone…only for them to use some 3-4s cast and hit you while you’ve long been out of line of sight.

It amazes me how many folks fail to see the obvious fix. Perma-stealthing thieves is caused primarily by one skill. Cloak and Dagger. So gee folks………don’t you think that’s the obvious fix choice? Put a cool down of 10-12 seconds on C&D and bam…no more perma stealthers.

And please don’t give me that crap about culling. Culling is a problem but it’s overstated a lot. Most of the time the first second is culling…the 2nd second is folks readjusting to the thieves current position (usually flanked or behind). Fixed culling would only mean a thief would have to throw in a dodge before re-stealthing.

Fix the root at it’s source folks (and I’m sure Anet will do so) and that source is Cloak and Dagger.

Wiredgunslinger.5480:

Put a cool down of 10-12 seconds on C&D and bam…no more perma stealthers.

Thereby neutering S/D control and P/D condition-based damage even more, making sweeping changes to thief skills without considering the consequences continually causes more conservative defense/control based thief setups to get weaker, pushing more and more thieves into glass cannon assassin-style gameplay. This change would easily double the amount of backstab thieves by obliterating even more viable weapon choices.

Wiredgunslinger.5480:

Put a cool down of 10-12 seconds on C&D and bam…no more perma stealthers.

Except for, you know, the Heartseeker + Black Powder combo that can keep a thief in stealth endlessly.

I don’t understand why this thread is still on-going. Channeled abilities already continue to make contact with the thief whether or not they go into stealth. Stealth does not interrupt channeled abilities in progress.

…WHAT?
The skills always did that, no matter if they were channeled or not, they always hit even if the target stealths.
I’m saying this after playing ele/engi/mesmer and thief. Ranged channeled abilities even give away your location as the enemy can see his attacks flying to you.

OP, keep in mind you are posting this to a bunch of thieves. They’re not going to be happy with you asking to take away their invulnerability.

Clark Skinner.4902:

OP, keep in mind you are posting this to a bunch of thieves. They’re not going to be happy with you asking to take away their invulnerability.

What the OP should have done is roll and or play a thief. Then posted about a single fix or something.

Everyone that plays a thief will tell you that channel skills follow you when your in stealth.

Not all. Some skills fire in a straight line forward that you can sidestep. Others are aimed on one spot and won’t move. Others are targetted AoEs, which are easily dodgeable.

stealth is actually broken right now, even mobs who use their spells can see thieves while stealthing in the middle of a channel.

AOE to bring someone out of stealth isn’t going to fix anything all it will do is make yet another class unplayable and that won’t solve anything it will make less people play.

The only solution is to make the spells that cause immobilize not a channel but an instant cast spell. Orr enemies do that to me all the time on every toon I have and it seems to work for them in trying to keep me from moving.

Unfortunately for them I won’t set foot in Orr without my engi having the stealth when immobilized trait nor will I set foot in Orr without my long stealth on my thief now.

In pvp I can imagine how frustrating that is.

But the true balance issues don’t really involve stealth right now. From my perspective they have only two classes that can burst damage 1 shot enemies and that’s not balanced at all.

If they want balance they need to make that type of attack available to everyone or not at all.

Leriff.8362:

lynspottery.6529:

Interesting discussion here…however, this morning we were doing the jumping puzzle in EB. Got caught by a thief who immediately hit Alt + F4 and left the game; same thief showed up not long after to continue his attack.

With 4 toons attacking the thief when he suddenly disappeared, all of us were irritated because the thief’s health bar never moved down.

This person obviously is a very good player and is using a function that drops you from the game at a critical moment so that you can get back in shortly after without taking any damage. I have no idea how he did it.

The conversation on our team circled around the fact that stealth seemed not to be working properly but was aggravated by the fact said player just dropped from the game.

Not disconnected like happens sometimes, just pressed Alt + F4 and closed the game when he got into trouble, only to reappear shortly afterward to take up the attack he himself avoided to begin with.

This tactic does not seem like something Anet intended to be working as a function of battle.

If you log off or Alt+f4, or anything of the sort in WvW, you are taken out of WvW. You must reenter manually.

I understand that, but from the discussion I understood that this seems to have been happening even if the person manually logged back in, he still would be showing up at the spot you dropped from.

When I got disconnected due to my game dumping me to my desktop, when I was able to log back in I appeared where I left although the only reason my team was still there is because we were in mumble…so they waited for me.

First, let me say that I don’t play a thief main…I am an Ele…no stealth at all.

Second, here is what I recommend to you all if you are having issues with stealth.

Try playing a thief. Learn how stealth works. Learn what types of skills are dangerous for stealthed thieves.

You will likely notice that when you stealth, you continue to get your kitten handed to you. Stealth does offer any damage or CC immunity or resistance.

Most of the time, stealth is only one part of a 2 part process…

1. Stealth

2. Get the freak out of wherever the enemy is hitting, because they will kill your fragile behind in stealth if you don’t.

Stealth is powerful, no doubt…but I have killed MANY stealthed thieves on my Ele simply because I know how it works. The key is that just because you can’t see the thief…does not mean you are not hitting him.