Guild Wars 2

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Yeah, that’s a fair point about the engi, although I’d still say it’s one of the harder matchups for thief at least. Fair play.

It’s a hard match up for the Engi also. Engi relies that the Thief will attack and if they didn’t, Engi is useless.

I think you dismissed my point out of hand, and missed what I was saying here. Just because I kill a thief once doesn’t make my build a counter to thief, it just means I outplayed them at that time. My point is if you need to get the same results reliably before you can say it’s a counter.

I did not dismiss your point because it is invalid since you use a scenario where you won against a bad player. Winning against a bad player is winning against a bad player — they just do happen to play a Thief — which means, it is not winning against a Thief.

Whether I’m boring or not is ad hominem and is irrelevant to the argument.

The “you’re” in that statement is not personal, it’s a general statement, not you specifically. I’ll use 3rd person next time, my bad.

If I just manage to run away from a medi guard, it doesn’t change the fact the medi guard just handed my kitten to me on a plate.

That’s because Medi Guard is a counter to Thief. Engi is not.

If I run away from an Engi, it’s because I got bored. They rely so much me attacking them that they do nothing on their own.

My point is simply that just because thief is one of the only classes that CAN run from a bad encounter, doesn’t mean you counter him any less if you have to fight. Since the entire idea of a counter assumes that you have to fight in the first place, deciding that something counters you less because you can simply run away makes absolutely no sense, which is what some earlier posters were saying.

Part of countering a Thief is to prevent them from running away in the first place. If any profession failed on doing that, then the profession or build is NOT a counter.

Engi cannot catch a Thief, thus they are not a counter, compare to Medi Guard, who can also teleport and maintain the pressure on the Thief until the Thief die.

I don’t know how I can say it any clearer than that, so we may have to agree to disagree.

What’s clear is that you believe that as long as you make the Thief go away it means that you have countered them…this is nowhere closer from the truth.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Yeah, that’s a fair point about the engi, although I’d still say it’s one of the harder matchups for thief at least. Fair play.

It’s a hard match up for the Engi also. Engi relies that the Thief will attack and if they didn’t, Engi is useless.

I think you dismissed my point out of hand, and missed what I was saying here. Just because I kill a thief once doesn’t make my build a counter to thief, it just means I outplayed them at that time. My point is if you need to get the same results reliably before you can say it’s a counter.

I did not dismiss your point because it is invalid since you use a scenario where you won against a bad player. Winning against a bad player is winning against a bad player — they just do happen to play a Thief — which means, it is not winning against a Thief.

Whether I’m boring or not is ad hominem and is irrelevant to the argument.

The “you’re” in that statement is not personal, it’s a general statement, not you specifically. I’ll use 3rd person next time, my bad.

If I just manage to run away from a medi guard, it doesn’t change the fact the medi guard just handed my kitten to me on a plate.

That’s because Medi Guard is a counter to Thief. Engi is not.

If I run away from an Engi, it’s because I got bored. They rely so much me attacking them that they do nothing on their own.

My point is simply that just because thief is one of the only classes that CAN run from a bad encounter, doesn’t mean you counter him any less if you have to fight. Since the entire idea of a counter assumes that you have to fight in the first place, deciding that something counters you less because you can simply run away makes absolutely no sense, which is what some earlier posters were saying.

Part of countering a Thief is to prevent them from running away in the first place. If any profession failed on doing that, then the profession or build is NOT a counter.

Engi cannot catch a Thief, thus they are not a counter, compare to Medi Guard, who can also teleport and maintain the pressure on the Thief until the Thief die.

I don’t know how I can say it any clearer than that, so we may have to agree to disagree.

What’s clear is that you believe that as long as you make the Thief go away it means that you have countered them…this is nowhere closer from the truth.

You’re quite wrong. Mediation Guardian is the one who couldn’t catch a thief and with terrible snares.

Engineer actually have alot of ways catching a thief, like using rocket boot, maintaining permanent swiftness, apply on demand movement impairment (Chill, immobolize) and so on. They can also knock thief out of their trump care : Shadow Refuge through shield 4. They also have tool kit that can pull thief if you pair it up with some form of stealth. Basically engineer has alot more chances catching thieves than Guardian. Guardian’s teleport are all on pretty long cool down, and sword 2 requires a target, so if a thief go into stealth, sword 2 wouldn’t work. Also Guardian has more difficulty maintaining swiftness than Engineer.

Not to mention Engineer does has Reveal at their disposal, as well as strong condition pressure.

Aomine.5012:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Yeah, that’s a fair point about the engi, although I’d still say it’s one of the harder matchups for thief at least. Fair play.

It’s a hard match up for the Engi also. Engi relies that the Thief will attack and if they didn’t, Engi is useless.

I think you dismissed my point out of hand, and missed what I was saying here. Just because I kill a thief once doesn’t make my build a counter to thief, it just means I outplayed them at that time. My point is if you need to get the same results reliably before you can say it’s a counter.

I did not dismiss your point because it is invalid since you use a scenario where you won against a bad player. Winning against a bad player is winning against a bad player — they just do happen to play a Thief — which means, it is not winning against a Thief.

Whether I’m boring or not is ad hominem and is irrelevant to the argument.

The “you’re” in that statement is not personal, it’s a general statement, not you specifically. I’ll use 3rd person next time, my bad.

If I just manage to run away from a medi guard, it doesn’t change the fact the medi guard just handed my kitten to me on a plate.

That’s because Medi Guard is a counter to Thief. Engi is not.

If I run away from an Engi, it’s because I got bored. They rely so much me attacking them that they do nothing on their own.

My point is simply that just because thief is one of the only classes that CAN run from a bad encounter, doesn’t mean you counter him any less if you have to fight. Since the entire idea of a counter assumes that you have to fight in the first place, deciding that something counters you less because you can simply run away makes absolutely no sense, which is what some earlier posters were saying.

Part of countering a Thief is to prevent them from running away in the first place. If any profession failed on doing that, then the profession or build is NOT a counter.

Engi cannot catch a Thief, thus they are not a counter, compare to Medi Guard, who can also teleport and maintain the pressure on the Thief until the Thief die.

I don’t know how I can say it any clearer than that, so we may have to agree to disagree.

What’s clear is that you believe that as long as you make the Thief go away it means that you have countered them…this is nowhere closer from the truth.

You’re quite wrong. Mediation Guardian is the one who couldn’t catch a thief and with terrible snares.

Engineer actually have alot of ways catching a thief, like using rocket boot, maintaining permanent swiftness, apply on demand movement impairment (Chill, immobolize) and so on. They can also knock thief out of their trump care : Shadow Refuge through shield 4. They also have tool kit that can pull thief if you pair it up with some form of stealth. Basically engineer has alot more chances catching thieves than Guardian. Guardian’s teleport are all on pretty long cool down, and sword 2 requires a target, so if a thief go into stealth, sword 2 wouldn’t work. Also Guardian has more difficulty maintaining swiftness than Engineer.

This is only true against incompetent Thieves. I am yet to see a Condi Engi catch me like Medi Guardians can.

Not to mention Engineer does has Reveal at their disposal, as well as strong condition pressure.

Right, Condi Engi brings Utility Googles somehow replacing Tool Kit, Bomb Kit, or Rocket Boots — it must have been slotted in their back pocket of something.

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

Only if you let them.

Zephyra.4709:

What else can kill a thief?

Longbow full zerk pew pew ranger that places a stealth trap equipped with Sic Em = either of the following:

- thief goes into panic mode having roughly 38 secs of revealed on him and dies
- thief manages to run away/escape more than likely resetting the match but will probz die anyway still being revealed
- thief dies

I’ve done this to a few thieves I see stalking me. I either place the stealth trap and move back so they run into it or I blatantly stand on it so the thief inevitably activates it if they land on it (most use melee). Unless they’re full on mega burst cray cray evades then it’s absolute GG in my favor coz a lot panic. Lel.

Now, do this with a friend or better still, a full group using the exact same method/build and you’ll be collecting a lot of salty orphan thief tears in no time.

It’s unfortunate the class is so broken that consumables are required to kill them…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

Only if you let them.

Sadly for engineers, I have to agree on this. If you swap to SB and only pop in and out for a backstab now and then. There really is very little they can do. Pull is too telegraphed, which would be the only real way for them to catch us.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

Only if you let them.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I also saw you commented that an engineer is worthless if the thief doesn’t attack. That’s wrong too.

An engineer loves it when a thief doesn’t sit ontop of him, especially if SB comes out. That’s when he can spam his pistol skills and proc condis ( if condi) He can fake magnet, he can reflect, he can spam Everything he got without being punished.
A decent engineer will not take more damage from the SB than he can heal up without detonating his healing turret.

Actually I don’t play thief. But I do main engineer and I’ve duelled against alot of very good thieves. Assuming the goal of both players is to win, I’d say engineers have a very good chanse versus thieves

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

Only if you let them.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I also saw you commented that an engineer is worthless if the thief doesn’t attack. That’s wrong too.

An engineer loves it when a thief doesn’t sit ontop of him, especially if SB comes out. That’s when he can spam his pistol skills and proc condis ( if condi) He can fake magnet, he can reflect, he can spam Everything he got without being punished.
A decent engineer will not take more damage from the SB than he can heal up without detonating his healing turret.

Meh, you assume wrong. SB is not for autoattacking, it’s for littering the area with poison fields and blasting it. How often can you cleanse a perma poison?

I’m talking about zone control here — which obviously too advance for you.

No competent Thief will auto-attack an Engi with a shield.

Actually I don’t play thief. But I do main engineer and I’ve duelled against alot of very good thieves. Assuming the goal of both players is to win, I’d say engineers have a very good chanse versus thieves

I’ll take that “very good” with a pound of salt. Obviously you have not dueled a competent Thief.

And if your goal is to win, how do you catch a Thief?

Or you’re just like every other Engi who waits for the Thief to initiate? In that case, you’re one of the boring ones.

You can’t be killed, but you can’t kill a Thief either.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

Only if you let them.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I also saw you commented that an engineer is worthless if the thief doesn’t attack. That’s wrong too.

An engineer loves it when a thief doesn’t sit ontop of him, especially if SB comes out. That’s when he can spam his pistol skills and proc condis ( if condi) He can fake magnet, he can reflect, he can spam Everything he got without being punished.
A decent engineer will not take more damage from the SB than he can heal up without detonating his healing turret.

Meh, you assume wrong. SB is not for autoattacking, it’s for littering the area with poison fields and blasting it. How often can you cleanse a perma poison?

I’m talking about zone control here — which obviously too advance for you.

No competent Thief will auto-attack an Engi with a shield.

Actually I don’t play thief. But I do main engineer and I’ve duelled against alot of very good thieves. Assuming the goal of both players is to win, I’d say engineers have a very good chanse versus thieves

I’ll take that “very good” with a pound of salt. Obviously you have not dueled a competent Thief.

And if your goal is to win, how do you catch a Thief?

Or you’re just like every other Engi who waits for the Thief to initiate? In that case, you’re one of the boring ones.

You can’t be killed, but you can’t kill a Thief either.

First of all you should do something about your derisive attitude.

Second of all, how many times can you blast a poison field unsuccessfully and not have to fall back to regen initiative, giveing both you and the engineer space. Exactly what the engineer wants.
An engineer wont cleanse just because hes being poisoned once. The area Control from sb is not effective at all vs engineers. We’re not warriors that get shut down when poisoned.

If my goal is to win, then how do I Catch one? I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at. Obviously I’m not gonna Catch a thief with an engineer. But as I said if the thief decides to fight Ill have a good chanse of winning.

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

Only if you let them.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I also saw you commented that an engineer is worthless if the thief doesn’t attack. That’s wrong too.

An engineer loves it when a thief doesn’t sit ontop of him, especially if SB comes out. That’s when he can spam his pistol skills and proc condis ( if condi) He can fake magnet, he can reflect, he can spam Everything he got without being punished.
A decent engineer will not take more damage from the SB than he can heal up without detonating his healing turret.

Meh, you assume wrong. SB is not for autoattacking, it’s for littering the area with poison fields and blasting it. How often can you cleanse a perma poison?

I’m talking about zone control here — which obviously too advance for you.

No competent Thief will auto-attack an Engi with a shield.

Actually I don’t play thief. But I do main engineer and I’ve duelled against alot of very good thieves. Assuming the goal of both players is to win, I’d say engineers have a very good chanse versus thieves

I’ll take that “very good” with a pound of salt. Obviously you have not dueled a competent Thief.

And if your goal is to win, how do you catch a Thief?

Or you’re just like every other Engi who waits for the Thief to initiate? In that case, you’re one of the boring ones.

You can’t be killed, but you can’t kill a Thief either.

First of all you should do something about your derisive attitude.

I only get like this when I have to repeat myself when someone disagree with me by not reading my whole post.

Second of all, how many times can you blast a poison field unsuccessfully and not have to fall back to regen initiative, giveing both you and the engineer space. Exactly what the engineer wants.

Giving space? lol

An engineer wont cleanse just because hes being poisoned once. The area Control from sb is not effective at all vs engineers. We’re not warriors that get shut down when poisoned.

This is what I’m talking about. You have no idea what zone control is.

If my goal is to win, then how do I Catch one? I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at. Obviously I’m not gonna Catch a thief with an engineer.

Then you’re not a hard counter to a Thief. Let’s end it here.

But as I said if the thief decides to fight Ill have a good chanse of winning.

No competent Thief will bother with an Engi with a Shield.

There’s no point on attacking a turtle when all they do is hide in their shell.

I would have completely agree with you if GW2 has taunt, but it doesn’t.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

Only if you let them.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I also saw you commented that an engineer is worthless if the thief doesn’t attack. That’s wrong too.

An engineer loves it when a thief doesn’t sit ontop of him, especially if SB comes out. That’s when he can spam his pistol skills and proc condis ( if condi) He can fake magnet, he can reflect, he can spam Everything he got without being punished.
A decent engineer will not take more damage from the SB than he can heal up without detonating his healing turret.

Meh, you assume wrong. SB is not for autoattacking, it’s for littering the area with poison fields and blasting it. How often can you cleanse a perma poison?

I’m talking about zone control here — which obviously too advance for you.

No competent Thief will auto-attack an Engi with a shield.

Actually I don’t play thief. But I do main engineer and I’ve duelled against alot of very good thieves. Assuming the goal of both players is to win, I’d say engineers have a very good chanse versus thieves

I’ll take that “very good” with a pound of salt. Obviously you have not dueled a competent Thief.

And if your goal is to win, how do you catch a Thief?

Or you’re just like every other Engi who waits for the Thief to initiate? In that case, you’re one of the boring ones.

You can’t be killed, but you can’t kill a Thief either.

First of all you should do something about your derisive attitude.

I only get like this when I have to repeat myself when someone disagree with me by not reading my whole post.

Second of all, how many times can you blast a poison field unsuccessfully and not have to fall back to regen initiative, giveing both you and the engineer space. Exactly what the engineer wants.

Giving space? lol

An engineer wont cleanse just because hes being poisoned once. The area Control from sb is not effective at all vs engineers. We’re not warriors that get shut down when poisoned.

This is what I’m talking about. You have no idea what zone control is.

If my goal is to win, then how do I Catch one? I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at. Obviously I’m not gonna Catch a thief with an engineer.

Then you’re not a hard counter to a Thief. Let’s end it here.

But as I said if the thief decides to fight Ill have a good chanse of winning.

No competent Thief will bother with an Engi with a Shield.

There’s no point on attacking a turtle when all they do is hide in their shell.

I would have completely agree with you if GW2 has taunt, but it doesn’t.

XD. I find it funny a class that relies on stealth and “hide in shadow” criticizing another class that “all they do is hide in their shell”.

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

DarkSyze.8627:

RedSpectrum.1975:

I’m going to say engineer so hard, they can hit you with way more conditions than you can effectively deal with

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDsXdA_ApRk

So, we are in a discussion where thieves say that they switch to SB to keep the pressure up on the engineer. Yet you post a video of an engineer fighting a thief that doesn’t have (or doesn’t switch to) a SB?

In a pure 1vs1, where you don’t need to contest a point, a thief should be able to nibble down an engineer. The way they do that is to burst and then range pressure, rinse repeat.

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Meh, you assume wrong. SB is not for autoattacking, it’s for littering the area with poison fields and blasting it. How often can you cleanse a perma poison?

I’m talking about zone control here — which obviously too advance for you.

No competent Thief will auto-attack an Engi with a shield.

I’ll take that “very good” with a pound of salt. Obviously you have not dueled a competent Thief.

And if your goal is to win, how do you catch a Thief?

Or you’re just like every other Engi who waits for the Thief to initiate? In that case, you’re one of the boring ones.

You can’t be killed, but you can’t kill a Thief either.

First of all you should do something about your derisive attitude.

I only get like this when I have to repeat myself when someone disagree with me by not reading my whole post.

Second of all, how many times can you blast a poison field unsuccessfully and not have to fall back to regen initiative, giveing both you and the engineer space. Exactly what the engineer wants.

Giving space? lol

An engineer wont cleanse just because hes being poisoned once. The area Control from sb is not effective at all vs engineers. We’re not warriors that get shut down when poisoned.

This is what I’m talking about. You have no idea what zone control is.

If my goal is to win, then how do I Catch one? I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at. Obviously I’m not gonna Catch a thief with an engineer.

Then you’re not a hard counter to a Thief. Let’s end it here.

But as I said if the thief decides to fight Ill have a good chanse of winning.

No competent Thief will bother with an Engi with a Shield.

There’s no point on attacking a turtle when all they do is hide in their shell.

I would have completely agree with you if GW2 has taunt, but it doesn’t.

Yet agains you’re assuming I don’t know what zone Control is when you’re the one missing the Point. You Think the zone Control you’re talking about is effective, when its simply not.
Ofc a thief will use the SB against an engineer witha shield, because a competent thief, as you put it, will pay attention to when the engineer reflects or not. The dps itself is far better than any area pressure that you’re suggesting.

Now ofc noone will kill the other if they dont comit fully. So lets say they are duelling. The unwritten rules of a duel says: no running away. Obviously both profs. have a good chanse of winning. Wasting you initiative on area pressure is not gonna win the fight for you.

If you get like this everytime someone makes you repeat what you’re saying, maybe you should Think twice. Maybe you’re the one, as I stated above, missing the point

Zerker thief will lose to condi engi.

Only time you win is if you GREATLY out skill your opponent

Aomine.5012:

XD. I find it funny a class that relies on stealth and “hide in shadow” criticizing another class that “all they do is hide in their shell”.

Relies on stealth? Please. Get your facts straight.

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Yet agains you’re assuming I don’t know what zone Control is when you’re the one missing the Point. You Think the zone Control you’re talking about is effective, when its simply not.

You claim to know yet your replies says otherwise.

Ofc a thief will use the SB against an engineer witha shield, because a competent thief, as you put it, will pay attention to when the engineer reflects or not. The dps itself is far better than any area pressure that you’re suggesting.

Um no. This part of your post says a lot that you have no idea what zone control is.

Now ofc noone will kill the other if they dont comit fully. So lets say they are duelling. The unwritten rules of a duel says: no running away. Obviously both profs. have a good chanse of winning. Wasting you initiative on area pressure is not gonna win the fight for you.

lol @ “the unwritten rules”.

I can make one up as we go along too. According to the unwritten rules, you are not allowed to use defensive skills, only offensive skills…then you just go at it at each other until there’s only one man standing.

If you get like this everytime someone makes you repeat what you’re saying, maybe you should Think twice. Maybe you’re the one, as I stated above, missing the point

L2P Thief then we’ll continue this discussion.

signet condi ele: [perma burning/bleeding x(immobilize+chill+condi duration and 1700 condi dmg)] = dead thief ^2

My game is buggy since february, I can’t fight against thieves anymore as I can’t hit them, except if I use heartseeker, so yay I’m a 2222 spamming pro. So I’m not so sure if I have problems with all classes but it only shows when facing thieves, or if I really have only problems with thieves. I miracously kill engis all of the sudden, maybe because their elite has been nerfed, I don’t know.
And to me D/D thief is the only real hard counter in this game, against mesmers as I can CnD on their clones which I might destoy in one hit, also the next attack misses, so they have troubles to use most of their class mechanics on me.
But you can say that ranger with sic em is a hard counter to thief, maybe engi with googles is as well (rarely meet one). Medi guards are hard to kill, but I don’t think that only thieves have got this problem.

Supreme.3164:

signet condi ele: [perma burning/bleeding x(immobilize+chill+condi duration and 1700 condi dmg)] = dead thief ^2

More than likely, an Ele had caught me before, but they are insisting that Engi is a hard counter to Thief…which is never the case.

Hard counter to thief is anyone that is paying attention to surroundings and has enough dps to counter shadow arts.

pug.4658:

Hard counter to thief is anyone that is paying attention to surroundings and has enough dps to counter shadow arts.

That isn’t the iWin button they want.

yolo swaggins.2570:

pug.4658:

Hard counter to thief is anyone that is paying attention to surroundings and has enough dps to counter shadow arts.

That isn’t the iWin button they want.

Most keyboards do come with a win button. Though an iWin button could be a hybrid of a sort.

:/ I guess theirs must be broken.