Guild Wars 2

A way to fix the cheesing? ICD on individual stealth abilities.

::::::Note::::

I play Thief. I would rather A Net revert the 4 second revealed nerf, and no choose to go with the 3 seconds revealed no matter what.

This note has been added because some of you apparently cannot read that far into my post to realize this… -.-

Hear me out. The issue with cheezing thieves in WvW is spamming CnD back to back. But how about a way that doesnt effect all aspects of thief players, just WvW cheezing?

Lets take CnD for example. Give it an internal cooldown of say, 4-5 seconds before you can use that specific ability to go into stealth again. Now you have to utilize more than one skill for keeping your stealth up.

This forces you to use something else, blinding powder, BP + HS, SR, etc. Put an internal cooldown on each of these abilities (to stop a group of thieves grouping together and cheezing, but maybe not as neccassary).

This wont hurt those who dont cheese, and allow them to continue doing what they do in each part of the game they like PvE/PvP. I think it would be a good solution to stop the chain CnD’s, while still letting thieves that play it more offensively and being able to use stealth skills/utilities as they see fit.

The ICD on CnD is definitely neccessary. But I’m not sure how well it would work on the other utilities (Blinding Powder for example) if someone where to do it near you. Maybe those wouldnt be as neccessary if at all needed. However, I think it would be a better alternative than +1 second to revealed, or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what. As once all of your stealth skills are blown, all you will have is CnD if you run X/D.

Cloaked in Shadow (Creates a Smoke Field for 4s when you stealth.)
Fleet Shadow (Gain 10 Swiftness when you stealth.)
Hidden Assassin (Gain Fury for 5 seconds when you stealth.)
Hidden Killer (100% crit chance while stealthed, the next attack does 25% more damage.)
Shadow Protector (Grant targets of your stealth skills Protection, stackable)
Infusion of Shadow (Gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths)
Patience (Regain initiative faster, starts as soon as you stealth.)
Shadow’s Embrace (Remove one condition every three seconds)
Shadow’s Rejuvenation (Regenerate health in stealth and gain 5s of regeneration.)

As long as these changes are made.

Kneru.8014:

A way to fix the cheesing? ICD on individual stealth abilities.

Hear me out. The issue with cheezing thieves in WvW is spamming CnD back to back. But how about a way that doesnt effect all aspects of thief players, just WvW cheezing?

Lets take CnD for example. Give it an internal cooldown of say, 4-5 seconds before you can use that specific ability to go into stealth again. Now you have to utilize more than one skill for keeping your stealth up.

This forces you to use something else, blinding powder, BP + HS, SR, etc. Put an internal cooldown on each of these abilities (to stop a group of thieves grouping together and cheezing, but maybe not as neccassary).

This wont hurt those who dont cheese, and allow them to continue doing what they do in each part of the game they like PvE/PvP. I think it would be a good solution to stop the chain CnD’s, while still letting thieves that play it more offensively and being able to use stealth skills/utilities as they see fit.

The ICD on CnD is definitely neccessary. But I’m not sure how well it would work on the other utilities (Blinding Powder for example) if someone where to do it near you. Maybe those wouldnt be as neccessary if at all needed. However, I think it would be a better alternative than +1 second to revealed, or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what. As once all of your stealth skills are blown, all you will have is CnD if you run X/D.

No.

If someones using CnD repeatedly they aren’t doing much damage and using up their initiative.

Their are better ways to “fix” CnD cheesing such as put an additional “buff” on CnD, when you use it you get a buff called “feint” that lasts 8 seconds, while you have this running any CnD done will deal NO damage, refresh the buff and still stealth you.

That way if you need the extra stealth from CnD in an emergency you can still get it but if your trying to cheese to be perma-stealth then your doing absolutely nothing but making yourself highly vulnerable.

That said is chain CnD really THAT much of an issue? you know exactly when they are going to be doing their next one so you know where they are going to be then you can hit them with all the stuff you can hit anyone with stealth without worrying about dying because they simply aren’t doing any real damage.

Stealth in all its current and previous iterations in this game has never been the issue, its always been either culling or people refusing to accept they might need to think and pay attention in a pvp situation.

Why is CnD chaining a problem?

brunohstein.9038:

Why is CnD chaining a problem?

It doesn’t do much damage, but it’s just annoying to try and combat, like LDB spam.

I dont have a problem with it in sPvP, only seen one person do it there, and it didnt work very well at all for them. But with all the people complaining about chaining CnD in WvW (I havent even played that aspect yet >.<), I’d rather they make this change, than the +1 revealed or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what change.

Kneru.8014:

A way to fix the cheesing? ICD on individual stealth abilities.

Hear me out. The issue with cheezing thieves in WvW is spamming CnD back to back. But how about a way that doesnt effect all aspects of thief players, just WvW cheezing?

Lets take CnD for example. Give it an internal cooldown of say, 4-5 seconds before you can use that specific ability to go into stealth again. Now you have to utilize more than one skill for keeping your stealth up.

This forces you to use something else, blinding powder, BP + HS, SR, etc. Put an internal cooldown on each of these abilities (to stop a group of thieves grouping together and cheezing, but maybe not as neccassary).

This wont hurt those who dont cheese, and allow them to continue doing what they do in each part of the game they like PvE/PvP. I think it would be a good solution to stop the chain CnD’s, while still letting thieves that play it more offensively and being able to use stealth skills/utilities as they see fit.

The ICD on CnD is definitely neccessary. But I’m not sure how well it would work on the other utilities (Blinding Powder for example) if someone where to do it near you. Maybe those wouldnt be as neccessary if at all needed. However, I think it would be a better alternative than +1 second to revealed, or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what. As once all of your stealth skills are blown, all you will have is CnD if you run X/D.

How about a big fat NO.

Just change reveal back to 3 seconds and don’t do anything else. Culling did it’s job and there’s plenty of counterplay now when a thief leaves stealth.

Please, if anything needs a nerf, it’s Black powder heartseeker, NOT cnd. CnD is extremely predictable and if someone is just chaining it, then count 1,2,3, dodge. Success! That wasn’t so hard, was it?

Dagger Pistol is stealth on demand at any time with no counter and it unpredictable + provides perma stealth + blinds to mitigate any CCs. CnD is an easy counter. Nobody should have trouble with it.

the using a combination attack without actually attacking anything and doing so repeatedly is far more dire than cnd spam in my eyes…

They would have fixed CnD chaining if they had gone with the original nerf of revealed everytime.
This will throw the attack patterns of x/D builds even more out of whack, weakening their dps and survivability even more then the last failure of a nerf.

Kneru.8014:

A way to fix the cheesing? ICD on individual stealth abilities.

Hear me out. The issue with cheezing thieves in WvW is spamming CnD back to back. But how about a way that doesnt effect all aspects of thief players, just WvW cheezing?

Lets take CnD for example. Give it an internal cooldown of say, 4-5 seconds before you can use that specific ability to go into stealth again. Now you have to utilize more than one skill for keeping your stealth up.

This forces you to use something else, blinding powder, BP + HS, SR, etc. Put an internal cooldown on each of these abilities (to stop a group of thieves grouping together and cheezing, but maybe not as neccassary).

This wont hurt those who dont cheese, and allow them to continue doing what they do in each part of the game they like PvE/PvP. I think it would be a good solution to stop the chain CnD’s, while still letting thieves that play it more offensively and being able to use stealth skills/utilities as they see fit.

The ICD on CnD is definitely neccessary. But I’m not sure how well it would work on the other utilities (Blinding Powder for example) if someone where to do it near you. Maybe those wouldnt be as neccessary if at all needed. However, I think it would be a better alternative than +1 second to revealed, or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what. As once all of your stealth skills are blown, all you will have is CnD if you run X/D.

why you want to bash the thieves again ? isn’t 4 seconds revealed after an backstab enough ?
why don’t you try to find an solution to bash perma retailation ?
or try to make some calculations to nerf perma regeneration from elementalists
Even better, why not add an 30 seconds cooldown for mesmers clone on dodge

If you are not going to implement reveal when stealth drops then the solution is to nerf Cloak and Daggers damage to the ground and force it into a pure utility skill as with Black Powder, and Infiltrator’s Arrow as the other slot 5s and redistributing the damage elsewhere.

I personally hate the 4 sec cooldown myself. It fits no real attack cycle or skill, so you’re just kittening for that extra second. Then there are people like me that habits die hard, so I find myself STILL wasting CnDs – of course usually expending the last chunk so I can’t CnD again for a few seconds.

Unfortunately while I considered the ‘no matter what’ 3s reveal, it actually affects nothing but CnD spam. Stealth stacking will still exist as you never get unstealthed – so it would not get a debuff. You’ll still be able to D/P permastealth in a keep or camp indefinitely… and that’s what I find most broken. So the question is, how can they fix that? They can’t disable stacking as that would break moves like Shadow Refuge, and any limit that supports SR is no limit to other stacking options as they’re actually less stacks. I personally love how it works – it is a great reward for staying in, with a penalty for leaving. It still helps latecomers, and you can lose your stacks to avoid that big AoE and step back in to get some back. But really, the only solution I see is it has to take a hit to fix stealth a bit.

My Suggestion to fix stealth:
- Revert back to the 3 secs reveal on hit, no reveal on time out.
- Stealth does not stack.
- Shadow Refuge now gives a 15 second stealth on cast – Heals pulse as normal. Leaving refuge is now more heavily punished as you can’t get the stealth back, but still gives an amount of stealth worth the risk (technically 11s as I don’t count the 4 stuck in the circle). This does mean you have to coordinate the cast for full party use, but I find that to be fine.

What this accomplishes:
- Gives back the over time DPS that I don’t think should have been stripped from thief. 25%, 10%, whatever the latest number crunch is, don’t care – it was still a hit. I don’t think from stealth hits should be our main DPS, but until they buff pistols to a respectable level, it’s what we have to compete.
- Makes “perma-stealth” a game of timing and actually trying to go unnoticed as you can no longer just spam. This also makes a reveal upon time out as well actually viable instead of a CnD only punishment if even that perma-stealth is considered too broken.
- Is NOT a penalty to D/P. Sorry, but this would have zero affect on your combat ability; and taking away the ability to be able to keep a fort contested so no one can spawn and never be found, holding a camp from capping infinitely, or permahiding in a tower/keep until everyone leaves is not a ‘nerf’, but a fix.

As I said way back when they first talked stealth nerf, actual stealth is not a problem, it gives very little advantage and in return thief as a whole lacks a lot of things.

“perma” stealth is also not really that much of an issue though CnD spam is cheesy and annoying its mostly harmless and could easily be made more harmless without breaking anyones burst with the feint system I outlined above.

That leave smoke field abuse, which personally I see as slightly exploitative, you shouldn’t be able to trigger it repeatedly like that without first fading out of stealth, same way you can’t trigger CnD repeatedly without breaking stealth.

That would easily be fixed by simply marking a sucessful combo as a sucessful attack, so if you leap through once you get the stealth, if you leap through again while still in stealth it breaks as you completed an attack and gives you revealed, that way everyone would be able to get a single stack of stealth at most from any given ability that isn’t intentionally designed to give more with their own draw backs (aka shadow refuge)

If people still want to have a long stealth they can, but everyone would be in the same situation of having to burn multiple skills/utilities to do so, sure people will still be annoyed by people stealthing for long periods of time but if that person has just burnt 2 utilities, their heal skill and half their initiative then they’ve paid a big price for that.

But in general is any of this really that big an issue? is it overpowered? no not really.

I got an idea

Leave thieves alone. The ONLY thing thieves have going for them is BS build for tPvP. Thieves do have some decent d/p 1v1 specs but in real PvP these specs are worthless.

In WvW we can get more build diversity due to the rule set. This allows thieves more wiggle room to kill but if you are dying to solo thieves its nothung other than you being severely outplayed.

In hopes someone will read this, and due to formatting being screwed up it seems, I will add this.

I’m afraid that A Net will resort to giving us revealed no matter what. This isnt a QQ topic about thieves in WvW, as I havent tried that (yet). And chain CnD is useless in sPvP. My main concern is that ANet will nerf us into the ground to the point were it affects all aspects of the game PvE/PvP/WvW. Some of you, dont seem to get this point in my post… But, its the internet, what did I expect. -.-

Rayya.2591:

Kneru.8014:

A way to fix the cheesing? ICD on individual stealth abilities.

Hear me out. The issue with cheezing thieves in WvW is spamming CnD back to back. But how about a way that doesnt effect all aspects of thief players, just WvW cheezing?

Lets take CnD for example. Give it an internal cooldown of say, 4-5 seconds before you can use that specific ability to go into stealth again. Now you have to utilize more than one skill for keeping your stealth up.

This forces you to use something else, blinding powder, BP + HS, SR, etc. Put an internal cooldown on each of these abilities (to stop a group of thieves grouping together and cheezing, but maybe not as neccassary).

This wont hurt those who dont cheese, and allow them to continue doing what they do in each part of the game they like PvE/PvP. I think it would be a good solution to stop the chain CnD’s, while still letting thieves that play it more offensively and being able to use stealth skills/utilities as they see fit.

The ICD on CnD is definitely neccessary. But I’m not sure how well it would work on the other utilities (Blinding Powder for example) if someone where to do it near you. Maybe those wouldnt be as neccessary if at all needed. However, I think it would be a better alternative than +1 second to revealed, or 3 seconds of revealed no matter what. As once all of your stealth skills are blown, all you will have is CnD if you run X/D.

why you want to bash the thieves again ? isn’t 4 seconds revealed after an backstab enough ?
why don’t you try to find an solution to bash perma retailation ?
or try to make some calculations to nerf perma regeneration from elementalists
Even better, why not add an 30 seconds cooldown for mesmers clone on dodge

Whoa, when I made this topic, I said I was against the 4 second revealed. I’m against that, as thief is my main. Don’t get all kitten at me because you dont want anything to change. But I’d rather have something done other than getting 3 second reveal no matter what.

ensoriki.5789:

If you are not going to implement reveal when stealth drops then the solution is to nerf Cloak and Daggers damage to the ground and force it into a pure utility skill as with Black Powder, and Infiltrator’s Arrow as the other slot 5s and redistributing the damage elsewhere.

CnD was nerfed a long time ago, it’s damage doesnt need another nerf.

Drawing Guy.3701

(1) I personally hate the 4 sec cooldown myself. It fits no real attack cycle or skill, so you’re just kittening for that extra second.

Unfortunately while I considered the ‘no matter what’ 3s reveal, it actually affects nothing but CnD spam

(2)My Suggestion to fix stealth:
- Revert back to the 3 secs reveal on hit, no reveal on time out.
- Stealth does not stack.
- Shadow Refuge now gives a 15 second stealth on cast [/b]

Agreed.

(2) Then people will cry more, and ArenaNet who takes into consideration the bads, will nerf us even more. The extra second isnt necessary, 3 seconds revealed on time out isnt neccassary. However, 3 seconds on time out I believe would hurt us worse, and I’m afraid A Net will resort to this. I’d prefer a small internal cooldown to stop CnD from putting us in stealth, than 3 seconds of revealed everytime.

Jinks.2057:

I got an idea

Leave thieves alone. The ONLY thing thieves have going for them is BS build for tPvP. Thieves do have some decent d/p 1v1 specs but in real PvP these specs are worthless.

In WvW we can get more build diversity due to the rule set. This allows thieves more wiggle room to kill but if you are dying to solo thieves its nothung other than you being severely outplayed.

Agreed. However, the 4 second revealed nerf did nothing to affected chain CnD. I’d prefer and ICD (specific to each ability) compared to being revealed no matter what.

Really, I play a thief. I play the stealth/burst class in every MMO I’ve played since I played Thief in Final Fantasy XI (11, Eleven, for those of you that cant count…). I’m just trying to suggest an idea that may help with noobs complaining about CnD spam, before we end up like Operatives in SWTOR.

How did Operatives in SWTOR end up you ask? People complained about their burst from stealth, until they were nerfed into the ground and completely useless. Deception (mid tree) Assassin you had to be very good at, or you were worthless in RWZ (Ranked Warzones), as you were probably even more squishy than thieves into this game.

I’d really prefer them to revert and undo the +1 second to revealed nerf, honestly, 1 second is a long time in PvP. But if I had the choice of having an internal Stealth CD on individual skills, compared to 3 seconds revealed every time, I believe I’d rather take the former.

I used to agree with this, but I think 3 seconds revealed (whether you attack or not) will hurt us more than I think some of you realize. (which I’m afraid A Net will do) You will pretty much need Fleet of Shadow to use stealth more offensively and keep up with people who spam dodge/evade and land that Backstab/Tactical Strike/Whatever.

Kneru.8014:

Drawing Guy.3701

(1) I personally hate the 4 sec cooldown myself. It fits no real attack cycle or skill, so you’re just kittening for that extra second.

Unfortunately while I considered the ‘no matter what’ 3s reveal, it actually affects nothing but CnD spam

(2)My Suggestion to fix stealth:
- Revert back to the 3 secs reveal on hit, no reveal on time out.
- Stealth does not stack.
- Shadow Refuge now gives a 15 second stealth on cast [/b]

Agreed.

(2) Then people will cry more, and ArenaNet who takes into consideration the bads, will nerf us even more. The extra second isnt necessary, 3 seconds revealed on time out isnt neccassary. However, 3 seconds on time out I believe would hurt us worse, and I’m afraid A Net will resort to this. I’d prefer a small internal cooldown to stop CnD from putting us in stealth, than 3 seconds of revealed everytime.

Jinks.2057:

I got an idea

Leave thieves alone. The ONLY thing thieves have going for them is BS build for tPvP. Thieves do have some decent d/p 1v1 specs but in real PvP these specs are worthless.

In WvW we can get more build diversity due to the rule set. This allows thieves more wiggle room to kill but if you are dying to solo thieves its nothung other than you being severely outplayed.

Agreed. However, the 4 second revealed nerf did nothing to affected chain CnD. I’d prefer and ICD (specific to each ability) compared to being revealed no matter what.

Really, I play a thief. I play the stealth/burst class in every MMO I’ve played since I played Thief in Final Fantasy XI (11, Eleven, for those of you that cant count…). I’m just trying to suggest an idea that may help with noobs complaining about CnD spam, before we end up like Operatives in SWTOR.

How did Operatives in SWTOR end up you ask? People complained about their burst from stealth, until they were nerfed into the ground and completely useless. Deception (mid tree) Assassin you had to be very good at, or you were worthless in RWZ (Ranked Warzones), as you were probably even more squishy than thieves into this game.

I’d really prefer them to revert and undo the +1 second to revealed nerf, honestly, 1 second is a long time in PvP. But if I had the choice of having an internal Stealth CD on individual skills, compared to 3 seconds revealed every time, I believe I’d rather take the former.

I used to agree with this, but I think 3 seconds revealed (whether you attack or not) will hurt us more than I think some of you realize. (which I’m afraid A Net will do) You will pretty much need Fleet of Shadow to use stealth more offensively and keep up with people who spam dodge/evade and land that Backstab/Tactical Strike/Whatever.

How is the option that still lets me keep up my blind, daze and regen defense, worse then the one that weakens that and makes it so I have to wait 2 more auto attacks before I can re-establish my defenses?

Dual.8953:

How is the option that still lets me keep up my blind, daze and regen defense, worse then the one that weakens that and makes it so I have to wait 2 more auto attacks before I can re-establish my defenses?

What I’m suggesting is that you can’t use CnD back to back for stealth, but you could use say, CnD > Wait for Stealth to wear off > Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge/Last Refuge/BP+HS, etc to stealth.

With my idea you would still be able to utilize stealth back to back for Tactical Strike, Cloaked in Shadow proc, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, etc, just not by using the same ability like CnD back to back.

I’m not sure if your post didnt make sense, or you just didnt read mine thoroughly.

Kneru.8014:

Dual.8953:

How is the option that still lets me keep up my blind, daze and regen defense, worse then the one that weakens that and makes it so I have to wait 2 more auto attacks before I can re-establish my defenses?

What I’m suggesting is that you can’t use CnD back to back for stealth, but you could use say, CnD > Wait for Stealth to wear off > Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge/Last Refuge/BP+HS, etc to stealth.

With my idea you would still be able to utilize stealth back to back for Tactical Strike, Cloaked in Shadow proc, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, etc, just not by using the same ability like CnD back to back.

I’m not sure if your post didnt make sense, or you just didnt read mind thoroughly.

S/D maintained a balance between it’s initiative and cooldowns because it could access CnD every 3 seconds. It used to mesh so well allowing near constant blind and daze, affording S/D very good sustain in high intensity situations like dungeons.
The suggestions you made aren’t enough to make up for the loses.
Shadow Refuge’s too expensive and unwieldy to be effective in a rotation, not to mention it draws a lot of attention, and blinding powder’s cooldown won’t alone won’t cut it.
Last Refuge isn’t available on demand, and BP>HS is on D/P (Judging how this ideal conveniently restores D/P back to 100, with no regard for x/D, I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re a D/P user).
So as a result putting a 5 second cooldown on CnD will have a dramatic effect on S/D and even P/D, giving not 1 but 2 seconds of downtime where they can only auto attack if this is implemented, and blinding powder isn’t enough to fill in the gap.

Kneru.8014:

brunohstein.9038:

Why is CnD chaining a problem?

It doesn’t do much damage, but it’s just annoying to try and combat, like LDB spam.

I find mesmers pretty annoying to combat, because I always end up killing the clones. Maybe the class should be removed.

Just here checking on things in thieves world.. and are you guys actually talking yourselves into a nerf? How come? Thieves as they are I’m sorry not factors in WvW play honestly.. well not this CnD business anyway.. ZIPPO. lol yes please keep CnDing all day non stop, that means your not using the shortbow spam of Ricochet, CLuster bomb on me. The OP is persistant about it.

I like what the thieves can do in wvw atm.. they can be VERY annoying to small grps 2-4 ppl if played by a 1%er and its fun trying to catch them.

Lol you guys are so beat up your nerfing yourselves w/o cause. Thats like what they call it abused syndrome or something =)

#rant {

I am so sick and kittening tired of reading about cheese this and cheese that; they’re just playstyles and no amount of “lol cheese play” is going to change the fact that these valid playstyles and/or builds are exactly that: valid.

Anybody who has a huge problem countering the CnD > Mug > BS combo needs to carry a stunbreaker and practice their reaction time until they improve (blasphemy!); and anybody who believes that CnD chaining is actually a problem needs to learn how to kittening dodge.

Honestly, the only thing that needs to happen to Thieves is reducing the revealed debuff back to 3 seconds now that culling no longer exists and Thieves can be properly seen in WvW where 99% of the complaints came from.

Thieves have never been a problem in sPvP where culling didn’t exist and all the change did was nerf the crap out of us in PvE and reduce our PvP dps too.

Quit trying to change our class for the worse and acting as though CnD chaining is “LOLCHEESEUSOBADNERFITLOL” and a kittening problem when it’s absolutely not a problem at all and never was.

ARGH!

}

Incurafy.6329:

#rant {

I am so sick and kittening tired of reading about cheese this and cheese that; they’re just playstyles and no amount of “lol cheese play” is going to change the fact that these valid playstyles and/or builds are exactly that: valid.

Anybody who has a huge problem countering the CnD > Mug > BS combo needs to carry a stunbreaker and practice their reaction time until they improve (blasphemy!); and anybody who believes that CnD chaining is actually a problem needs to learn how to kittening dodge.

Honestly, the only thing that needs to happen to Thieves is reducing the revealed debuff back to 3 seconds now that culling no longer exists and Thieves can be properly seen in WvW where 99% of the complaints came from.

Thieves have never been a problem in sPvP where culling didn’t exist and all the change did was nerf the crap out of us in PvE and reduce our PvP dps too.

Quit trying to change our class for the worse and acting as though CnD chaining is “LOLCHEESEUSOBADNERFITLOL” and a kittening problem when it’s absolutely not a problem at all and never was.

ARGH!

}

Apparently you dont get it. And I actually run 2 stun breaks, RfI/Shadowstep, though it had nothing to do with topic. My fear is people will complain about the chain CnD and A Net will nerf us (I say us, as I play thief myself) into the ground. But, forget it.

You kids automatically think anyone, even if they play a thief, that suggest anything different than the way it currently is, just wants thief nerfed into the ground. Change happens in life, including MMO’s. But no matter what, you will cry and make some off topic remark that basically goes back to L2P, when I play a thief myself and have no problem with other thieves.

I’m just afraid since the +1 second revealed nerf did nothing, A Net will continue to nerf stealth to a point where it’s worthless. I’d rather give them an idea they could try in practice, than having us nerfed into oblivion. Hopefully my own topic gets locked, cause most of you dont seem to get that, or you cant read. I’m done. -.-

Kneru.8014:

Incurafy.6329:

#rant {

I am so sick and kittening tired of reading about cheese this and cheese that; they’re just playstyles and no amount of “lol cheese play” is going to change the fact that these valid playstyles and/or builds are exactly that: valid.

Anybody who has a huge problem countering the CnD > Mug > BS combo needs to carry a stunbreaker and practice their reaction time until they improve (blasphemy!); and anybody who believes that CnD chaining is actually a problem needs to learn how to kittening dodge.

Honestly, the only thing that needs to happen to Thieves is reducing the revealed debuff back to 3 seconds now that culling no longer exists and Thieves can be properly seen in WvW where 99% of the complaints came from.

Thieves have never been a problem in sPvP where culling didn’t exist and all the change did was nerf the crap out of us in PvE and reduce our PvP dps too.

Quit trying to change our class for the worse and acting as though CnD chaining is “LOLCHEESEUSOBADNERFITLOL” and a kittening problem when it’s absolutely not a problem at all and never was.

ARGH!

}

Apparently you dont get it. And I actually run 2 stun breaks, RfI/Shadowstep, though it had nothing to do with topic. My fear is people will complain about the chain CnD and A Net will nerf us (I say us, as I play thief myself) into the ground. But, forget it.

You kids automatically think anyone, even if they play a thief, that suggest anything different than the way it currently is, just wants thief nerfed into the ground. Change happens in life, including MMO’s. But no matter what, you will cry and make some off topic remark that basically goes back to L2P, when I play a thief myself and have no problem with other thieves.

I’m just afraid since the +1 second revealed nerf did nothing, A Net will continue to nerf stealth to a point where it’s worthless. I’d rather give them an idea they could try in practice, than having us nerfed into oblivion. Hopefully my own topic gets locked, cause most of you dont seem to get that, or you cant read. I’m done. -.-

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

Dasorine.1964:

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

I’m proposing an idea on the off chance they do decide the nerf stealth, in hopes they would use my idea over something like, 3 seconds revealed no matter what. Honestly, I dont want them to nerf stealth any more than the rest of you. But on the off chance they do, I’d rather suggest something I feel would be better than what they have talked about before.

Thief is my main, and I’ve dabbled with other classes, I know how easy it is to counter.

Kneru.8014:

Dasorine.1964:

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

I’m proposing an idea on the off chance they do decide the nerf stealth, in hopes they would use my idea over something like, 3 seconds revealed no matter what. Honestly, I dont want them to nerf stealth any more than the rest of you. But on the off chance they do, I’d rather suggest something I feel would be better than what they have talked about before.

Thief is my main, and I’ve dabbled with other classes, I know how easy it is to counter.

I’m still assuming you’re D/P. Because that’s the set that’d be most effected by the stealth revealed no matter what nerf. You’re nerf idea lets D/P operate at 100% capacity at the cost of messing up D/D, S/D and P/D.
The revealed no matter what nerf is better because it doesn’t ruin the three x/D builds. And D/P will survive. The set has most blinds of any thief set (one being a combo field of all things), has an on demand interupt, backstab and two gap closers, and will not lose and of them from getting revealed no matter what.

Dual.8953:

Kneru.8014:

Dasorine.1964:

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

I’m proposing an idea on the off chance they do decide the nerf stealth, in hopes they would use my idea over something like, 3 seconds revealed no matter what. Honestly, I dont want them to nerf stealth any more than the rest of you. But on the off chance they do, I’d rather suggest something I feel would be better than what they have talked about before.

Thief is my main, and I’ve dabbled with other classes, I know how easy it is to counter.

I’m still assuming you’re D/P. Because that’s the set that’d be most effected by the stealth revealed no matter what nerf. You’re nerf idea lets D/P operate at 100% capacity at the cost of messing up D/D, S/D and P/D.
The revealed no matter what nerf is better because it doesn’t ruin the three x/D builds. And D/P will survive. The set has most blinds of any thief set (one being a combo field of all things), has an on demand interupt, backstab and two gap closers, and will not lose and of them from getting revealed no matter what.

I was running D/D for a while before I logged out last night, I usually bounce between the two.

Kneru.8014:

Dual.8953:

Kneru.8014:

Dasorine.1964:

The problem is your proposing a nerf to something that never really needed nerfing in the first place, even if they reverted the +1s revealed nerf that wasn’t needed something like this STILL wouldn’t be needed, stealth isn’t powerful enough to warrant being weakened and penalized yet more, the fact that some people think it is comes down to new people to pvp not really understanding it and wanting an easier time against it, but the moment you start putting it on a level THEY are comfortable with you’ve removed all use of it against the experienced players.

I’m proposing an idea on the off chance they do decide the nerf stealth, in hopes they would use my idea over something like, 3 seconds revealed no matter what. Honestly, I dont want them to nerf stealth any more than the rest of you. But on the off chance they do, I’d rather suggest something I feel would be better than what they have talked about before.

Thief is my main, and I’ve dabbled with other classes, I know how easy it is to counter.

I’m still assuming you’re D/P. Because that’s the set that’d be most effected by the stealth revealed no matter what nerf. You’re nerf idea lets D/P operate at 100% capacity at the cost of messing up D/D, S/D and P/D.
The revealed no matter what nerf is better because it doesn’t ruin the three x/D builds. And D/P will survive. The set has most blinds of any thief set (one being a combo field of all things), has an on demand interupt, backstab and two gap closers, and will not lose and of them from getting revealed no matter what.

I was running D/D for a while before I logged out last night, I usually bounce between the two.

Yeah, I’ll admit of the 3 x/D’s D/D needs frequent stealth the least but the effectiveness of S/D and P/D on the other hand don’t kill as fast so they need sustain, and their stealth attacks for be effective. P/D’s only good attack skill is Sneak Attack, and S/D maintains it’s ability to stay fighting through frequent dazes and blinds.