Guild Wars 2

Thanks to the fantastical “6k dagger auto!!” post, I thought I’d do a bit of testing on my own to compare the DPS between Thief Dagger, Sword, Staff, and Revenant Sword. Kill DPS is more accurate for trash mobs or squishy players, while Sustained DPS is more accurate for tougher mobs (raids, fractals) and players with high sustain. Sustained is usually higher because it is calculated with AA conditions like vulnerability at their equilibrium state. Here are the initial results (I’ll do more complete testing at a later date):

Test 1 – Kill DPS
No traits, utilities, or sigils
Marauder amulet, Pack runes
Dagger – 2.1k
Staff – 2.1k
Sword – 1.92k
Rev – 1.7k

Test 2 – Kill DPS
All damage boosting traits, passive utilities, accuracy and force sigils
Marauder amulet, Pack runes
Dagger – 4k
Staff – 4k
Sword – 3.7k
Rev – 3.4k

Edit:

Test 3 – Sustained DPS
All damage boosting traits, passive utilities, accuracy and force sigils
Marauder amulet, Pack runes
Dagger – 4.5k
Staff – 5.2k
Sword – 4k
Rev – 3.8k

Note: Impossible Odds was not used, because it can’t be active 100% of the time. Testing with Impossible Odds pushes Revenant Kill DPS past all Thief options, and brings Sustained DPS slightly above Thief Sword DPS.

Edit 2:
Test 4 – Sustained DPS
All damage boosting traits, passive utilities, accuracy and force sigils
Zerk amulet, Scholar runes
Dagger – 5.2k
Staff – 6.5k
Sword – 4.9k
Rev – 4.5k

Test 5 – Sustained DPS
All damage boosting traits, passive utilities, bursting and force sigils
Viper amulet, Zerk runes
Dagger – 4.1k
Staff – 3.4k
Sword – 2.8k
Rev – 3.3k
Pistol – 1.7k (yeah, it sucks that bad)

Much needed now to get this stickies in all forums and the pvp one specifically, even though in Pvp Thieves didn’t need AA dps increase I won’t look a gift horse in the mouth since I give two weeks before nerfs from all the complaints.

Zodryn.4216:

Thanks to the fantastical “6k dagger auto!!” post, I thought I’d do a bit of testing on my own to compare the DPS between Thief Dagger, Sword, Staff, and Revenant Sword. Here are the initial results (I’ll do more complete testing at a later date):

Test 1
No traits, utilities, or sigils
Marauder amulet, Pack runes
Dagger – 2.1k
Staff – 2.1k
Sword – 1.92k
Rev – 1.7k

Test 2
All damage boosting traits, passive utilities, accuracy and force sigils
Marauder amulet, Pack runes
Dagger – 4k
Staff – 4k
Sword – 3.7k
Rev – 3.4k

That guy was using zerk amulet too, no trickery either. Don’t forget you have to take all the possible damage modifiers, not something that might actually be viable for play. Don’t forget scholar runes and probably sigil of rage to boost the DPS right before the screenshot.
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/s

did yet someone test the dps from staff compared to dd raid-wise? Current values may lead to dd backstabbing still better than staff…

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/218201/Bez_n_zvu.png

Berserker/Scholar/air/fire.

177 736 totall DMG / 29 sec is 6128 DPS.

This 4k DPS is really funny.

SuinegTsol.1729 Staff has right now best DPS after this hot fix

SuinegTsol.1729:

did yet someone test the dps from staff compared to dd raid-wise? Current values may lead to dd backstabbing still better than staff…

Edited the OP with some sustained numbers. It would seem that Staff is superior thanks to the Vulnerability stacking when it reaches equilibrium. In a Raid group, though, if Vulnerability is already accounted for, Dagger may be better. I feel like Vault and Backstab are close enough, but I may do some testing to find out for sure.

Evilek.5690:

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/218201/Bez_n_zvu.png

Berserker/Scholar/air/fire.

177 736 totall DMG / 29 sec is 6128 DPS.

This 4k DPS is really funny.

SuinegTsol.1729 Staff has right now best DPS after this hot fix

Keep in mind, I’m not using Scholar, Air or Fire. I could use Scholar I suppose, but I wanted more consistency from my sigils (if you screen cap right after the sigils proc, your DPS will get a small spike). Either way, the point of my calculations was not to find maximum DPS, but to compare each option for Thief. I threw in Revenant because of the ridiculous numbers in another thread (6k Dagger vs 3k Revenant…I don’t believe it).

He made that ridiculous thread.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

He made that ridiculous thread.

Didn’t notice that lol. To be fair to him, I only said the numbers he got were ridiculous. The concept of the thread itself is fine, and if there really was a 100% discrepancy between the DPS of two weapons on full DPS specs, it’s certainly an eyebrow raiser.

As it stands, it would seem Staff is of more concern than Dagger, but neither are that crazy compared with other options. If a Thief specs for 6k AA damage (Zerk, Scholar, DA, CS, DD etc.) I recommend sneezing in their general direction. It should take care of the problem.

https://youtu.be/eA126dULIr0

Sicarius.4639:

https://youtu.be/eA126dULIr0

After today bug fix is staff AA dps stronger than Dagger Gl with your Staff 11111 run !! =)

Zodryn.4216
I have no problem with the size of dps, main problem is when AA chanin make more DPS than other skills. Staff has right now after bug fic 6k+ DPS with Berserker amulet and pack runes, Dagger 5.8k-6k and Sword “only” 4.6k. Sword is right now DPS garbage and Dagger and Staff AA is overbuffed

Evilek.5690:

Sicarius.4639:

https://youtu.be/eA126dULIr0

After today bug fix is staff AA dps stronger than Dagger Gl with your Staff 11111 run !! =)

I think they should move some of the damage to CnD, Backstab, and Weakening Charge, but not really nerf the overall DPS. We really should have top tier DPS, but it’s understandable why people QQ if a big chunk of it comes from autos. I still don’t feel like it’s a PvP problem, given that most Thieves do not run full damage builds.

Edit:

Zodryn.4216
I have no problem with the size of dps, main problem is when AA chanin make more DPS than other skills.

Agreed.

The only reasoning they gave for AA dos increase was Anet wanting Thief to Use Initiative for its defenses instead of purely offense. And as stated the build you used to make the 6k damage the majority of Thief Mains would never use since Trickery is Mandatory. Yes you can achieve the 6k dps but to do so. You have to give up any survivability Utilities and a virtually required trait line. Granted Staff and Dagger did not need the AA dmg buff to begin with, only Sword AA needed the work so it could be viable alongside Dagger and staff. But in Anet fashion they botched the balance.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only reasoning they gave for AA dos increase was Anet wanting Thief to Use Initiative for its defenses instead of purely offense. And as stated the build you used to make the 6k damage the majority of Thief Mains would never use since Trickery is Mandatory. Yes you can achieve the 6k dps but to do so. You have to give up any survivability Utilities and a virtually required trait line. Granted Staff and Dagger did not need the AA dmg buff to begin with, only Sword AA needed the work so it could be viable alongside Dagger and staff. But in Anet fashion they botched the balance.

They botched it back in June – and only realized there’s a bunker meta when watching 2 ESL teams unable to kill each other 1 month ago – although it already started in June.
I had a heated argument with one of my buddies today – he’s usually a D/D thief and switched to staff. Staff itself to me is like everything else: evades give you a broad band of being able to screw up. The other classes with their invulnerabilities and passives have the same = all of them are just smashing buttons and sometimes land a hit – to them it’s balanced.
Anyway – what defensives does a thief have? When it comes to dagger mainhand we’ve got the evolutionary all around winner: D/P. D/D still can’t land a hit = no CnD = no defense. You can argue about Basilisk Venom – haven’t tried yet.
Others have already pointed out that sword has got more utility and cleave. But maybe their AA damage will be buffed in half a year.
I bet though that the only sets that are being played then are D/P and Staff – that will probably stay like that until the end of this game.

Jana.6831:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only reasoning they gave for AA dos increase was Anet wanting Thief to Use Initiative for its defenses instead of purely offense. And as stated the build you used to make the 6k damage the majority of Thief Mains would never use since Trickery is Mandatory. Yes you can achieve the 6k dps but to do so. You have to give up any survivability Utilities and a virtually required trait line. Granted Staff and Dagger did not need the AA dmg buff to begin with, only Sword AA needed the work so it could be viable alongside Dagger and staff. But in Anet fashion they botched the balance.

They botched it back in June – and only realized there’s a bunker meta when watching 2 ESL teams unable to kill each other 1 month ago – although it already started in June.
I had a heated argument with one of my buddies today – he’s usually a D/D thief and switched to staff. Staff itself to me is like everything else: evades give you a broad band of being able to screw up. The other classes with their invulnerabilities and passives have the same = all of them are just smashing buttons and sometimes land a hit – to them it’s balanced.
Anyway – what defensives does a thief have? When it comes to dagger mainhand we’ve got the evolutionary all around winner: D/P. D/D still can’t land a hit = no CnD = no defense. You can argue about Basilisk Venom – haven’t tried yet.
Others have already pointed out that sword has got more utility and cleave. But maybe their AA damage will be buffed in half a year.
I bet though that the only sets that are being played then are D/P and Staff – that will probably stay like that until the end of this game.

The main defense that I was referring to with the current AoE /Cleave spam in current meta is to use SB and disengage (I am one of the few that have stuck with S/D through almost everything so my FS is a defensive utility)and now with Staff its defense is tied to its offense so I don’t know why they buffed its damage , in regards to Initiative conservation, now defensive utilities are Blinding Powder, Shadowstep and BD or SoA.

I was just stating the reason I remember Anet Devs saying why they buffed Dagger and Staff AA damage. When only Sword need the rework to due clunky mechanics

Zodryn.4216:

Test 2 – Kill DPS
All damage boosting traits, passive utilities, accuracy and force sigils
Marauder amulet, Pack runes
Dagger – 4k
Staff – 4k
Sword – 3.7k
Rev – 3.4k

Edit:

Test 3 – Sustained DPS
All damage boosting traits, passive utilities, accuracy and force sigils
Marauder amulet, Pack runes
Dagger – 4.5k
Staff – 5.2k
Sword – 4k
Rev – 3.8k

I’m curious to what skills are you using?

I believe that is pure AA chains for each weapon set

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I believe that is pure AA chains for each weapon set

If that is the case then he’s not using all damage boost traits he claimed to have used since Bound grants an extra 10% dmg boost as well as Mug’s added DPS.

For the sake of his test, he’s actually picked all PASSIVE damage boost traits and not all damage boost traits.

Yeah this could be true that’s how I took it was all passive damage boosts to not get damage from other sources

Not to mention that Marauder and Pack Runes are not good for S/x since it’s all about raw power. Berserker and Scholar Runes makes more sense for S/x.

Will it be possible to see a test where the specs are built around the weapon of choice for optimal result rather than testing each weapon using the same specs?

I think this way we can have a comprehensive result.

For example;
Maurader+Pack
Sword = Xdps
Dagger = Xdps
etc

Berserker+Scholar
Sword = Xdps
Dagger = Xdps
etc

I know tonight I will be posting on my thread for S/D but taking a more sustain approach which should benefit more from pack runes vs scholar but we will see when I actually get to test.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I was just stating the reason I remember Anet Devs saying why they buffed Dagger and Staff AA damage. When only Sword need the rework to due clunky mechanics

I know – I was more talking generally than really referring to you – I just quoted you because you “quoted” anet.

Ah understandable.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I believe that is pure AA chains for each weapon set

If that is the case then he’s not using all damage boost traits he claimed to have used since Bound grants an extra 10% dmg boost as well as Mug’s added DPS.

For the sake of his test, he’s actually picked all PASSIVE damage boost traits and not all damage boost traits.

You are correct. Only passive boosts, and only AA. Bound boosts damage, but also cuts into AA time since you have to dodge, and mug does not boost AA damage. As I noted in the OP, I didn’t even include the numbers using Impossible Odds, even though it boosts auto damage. I wanted numbers for consistent DPS if all you do is press 1.

I plan to do a Zerk Scholar test as well, but I didn’t have the time this morning. Edit: Also might do a Viper Zerk rune test if anyone is interested.

Zodryn.4216:

Also might do a Viper Zerk rune test if anyone is interested.

That would be interesting although it’s obvious that Dagger will win this.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Also might do a Viper Zerk rune test if anyone is interested.

That would be interesting although it’s obvious that Dagger will win this.

Most definitely. I’ll probably also throw in pistol for that test.

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Also might do a Viper Zerk rune test if anyone is interested.

That would be interesting although it’s obvious that Dagger will win this.

Most definitely. I’ll probably also throw in pistol for that test.

That’ll be really interesting – cheers! If it’s not too much work, I’d be really grateful if you could include pistol in your top post’s numbers as well, using the same method. I won’t make any big point out of it, but it’d be interesting to see what we’re dealing with here.

AsurasRCute.4136:

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Also might do a Viper Zerk rune test if anyone is interested.

That would be interesting although it’s obvious that Dagger will win this.

Most definitely. I’ll probably also throw in pistol for that test.

That’ll be really interesting – cheers! If it’s not too much work, I’d be really grateful if you could include pistol in your top post’s numbers as well, using the same method. I won’t make any big point out of it, but it’d be interesting to see what we’re dealing with here.

Viper numbers are posted. I’ll add pistol DPS to the other tests when I can, but based on the viper test, I wouldn’t expect much.

Zodryn.4216:

AsurasRCute.4136:

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Also might do a Viper Zerk rune test if anyone is interested.

That would be interesting although it’s obvious that Dagger will win this.

Most definitely. I’ll probably also throw in pistol for that test.

That’ll be really interesting – cheers! If it’s not too much work, I’d be really grateful if you could include pistol in your top post’s numbers as well, using the same method. I won’t make any big point out of it, but it’d be interesting to see what we’re dealing with here.

Viper numbers are posted. I’ll add pistol DPS to the other tests when I can, but based on the viper test, I wouldn’t expect much.

lol @ pistol AA…so horrible.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

AsurasRCute.4136:

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Also might do a Viper Zerk rune test if anyone is interested.

That would be interesting although it’s obvious that Dagger will win this.

Most definitely. I’ll probably also throw in pistol for that test.

That’ll be really interesting – cheers! If it’s not too much work, I’d be really grateful if you could include pistol in your top post’s numbers as well, using the same method. I won’t make any big point out of it, but it’d be interesting to see what we’re dealing with here.

Viper numbers are posted. I’ll add pistol DPS to the other tests when I can, but based on the viper test, I wouldn’t expect much.

lol @ pistol AA…so horrible.

Yeah, I had a little chuckle there too – good thing I love gallows humour.

Cheers for doing that Zodryn: Much obliged.