Guild Wars 2

So after looking into the Ranger section and seeing mainly support for that class, I see that a few devs even post their view of the class and what their favorite combos (pets) are…why doesn’t the Thief has a Dev that will stick up for us and say “I think Stealth is fine, even if its still…” or something like that…

What all have we heard about our class from the Devs aside from “Stealth Nerf in the works”?

Thieves are getting nerfed because of these forums and the people who just complain and refuse to “L2P”.

ANet hates thieves. They rather listen to noobs who don’t understand the mechanics of the game.

Jon Peters said STFU to all the kids crying about C&D precasted steal…but that wasn’t in this subforum…

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

L2P problems are going to completely break this class… might as well remove all classes aside from warrior (which is UP’d terribly but the easiest to play) from the game completely and appease everyone. OH IM SOOOOO SRY I OUT PLAY YOU WITH A CHARACTER MEANT TO FALL APART WITH THE SLIGHTEST BLOW, NEEDZ TO NERF MY PLAYING ABILITY?

Adaneshade.2409:

we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Na, just gonna increase the amount of thieves joining zergs, and cycling through targets until they come across one with low health…. 22222222222222222

But seriously, we will be in a better place after this patch, I already sense the QQ stopping…

But I think it’s because Columba has been banned for a few days.

I will now have an incentive to go D/P S/D…..amidoinitriteguys?

pfft all the change will do is put limiters on thieves, people will still complain incessantly due to being terrible at pvp.

It takes way more skill that most realize for a thief to survive fights in the ultra bursty builds. Most of the time mine can’t actually get the stomp off on a guy I just downed. The way I fight is to be “closed” to attacks. 50% of this is stealth. The other 50% is landing my attack then proceeding to dodge or use Death Blossom to evade attacks until stealth is back up. I then use heart seeker to gap close and CnD to get back into stealth.

If i tried to run that burst build any other way it simply wouldn’t work. And for those who cry nerf to precasted CnD during steal it won’t do you any good. Mug through steal will still apply the basilisk venom and i’ll still hit my burst combo off and down you (or get you low enough to scare you away).

Now for my two cents. Hmm…. Do I have 2 cents? When I first started looking at GW2 and perused the thief class, I wasn’t all that enthused by it’s first glance mechanics. That is, until I saw that every stealth skill had a time limit. They’re pretty short time limits also. That’s what decided it for me. Now my main is a mobility/speed thief. I’ve seen other games that allow people to stay in stealth practically forever. That’s not enjoyable for me. I enjoy playing toons that force me to evolve as a player.
I see a lot of L2P come up in regards to this topic. When I look at the whole perma-stealth mechanic, I can’t help but think the only thing you learn to do is play badly. IMHO, if you are that lazy, just go play a tank. That’s a no brainer. The same type of personality that likes the whole, stay in stealth till the cows come home, love that kitten just as much.
But hey, /age tells me I’ve only been playing 2 months. What do I know? Maybe I just need more time and perspective to understand the whine that’s going out with the cheese. :P
P.S.: My thief is still my main. That won’t change unless they nerf our speed and mobility or range of utility skills.

Problem is that people make it seem like we are running around naked swinging a dagger and killing everyone in 1 shot

And those who pick up new thieves and try to faceroll with them wonder why they bounced off my guardian as I smash them into the dirt with my hammer.

That’s not a joke. I had that happen a while back in sPvP. I was practically 1v1ing a thief who after I rick rolled him a few times actually asked me to stop and asked why the build sucked. He watched youtube, rolled it and thought he could faceroll everything. It’s not that easy.

lioka qiao.8734:

And those who pick up new thieves and try to faceroll with them wonder why they bounced off my guardian as I smash them into the dirt with my hammer.

This. So much this.

lioka qiao.8734:

And those who pick up new thieves and try to faceroll with them wonder why they bounced off my guardian as I smash them into the dirt with my hammer.

That’s not a joke. I had that happen a while back in sPvP. I was practically 1v1ing a thief who after I rick rolled him a few times actually asked me to stop and asked why the build sucked. He watched youtube, rolled it and thought he could faceroll everything. It’s not that easy.

Uhm, skillz? O.O

Ive played every class (except Engi… ‘forget about that ever happening’ I says to Mabel) and I have felt frustration and power from all of them. The most over powered is the d/d ele without a doubt, even as a d/d ele I complained about how faceroll the build was. Warriors have it the worst in that they have essentially 3 viable wvw builds (rifle, axe ‘chop chop chop’, 100b) that all have huge limitations to them and no survivability (in relation to lets say… thief, ele). Thief fits somewhere in the middle and for the playstyle choices the class allows I feel it is properly balanced… buggy but balanced. SURE we could function with a stealth nerf but why bother in the first place? Fix the culling issues and as Emerill would say ‘BAM! right in the pasta’. Forum warriors ruin this game, and Dev’s are at fault for letting them.

You picked your class, learn to play it as intended. You picked the puppy, you train it.

The Ranger forums is the exception rather than the rule.

If only ANet had a dev like Robert for every class. =/

These are the Dev’s that represent the thieves:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5010/5328903665_ace091f1e4.jpg

I can confirm, I was empty seat.

Adaneshade.2409:

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Can you define what an ezmode noob is?

All I ever read from you is “take your training wheels off, get a real build, noob thieves”

So please tell me what do you constitute as a noob build vs man build.

Thanks.

As for the rest of the topic…I feel culling fix and reevaluate is the correct way.

Adaneshade.2409:

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

The reason the nerf is “good” has nothing to do with population control.
It’s taking out aspects of the thief that have been poorly implemented and hinder the devs from making wholesome decisions for the thief’s benefit so long as those aspects remain intact.

The thief atm can get on with some things that are simply silly, while we have aspects of us that are surely deserving of attention, while we have these “Lol wot” issues that are strong enough to warrant not fixing our issues.

Take the nerfs so the prof can get better, lol who cares about how other players play.
Anyone who has the thief for a week knows we’ve got issues, and the grass isn’t a luscious green on our side as much as they may think. Gotta dig up the garden a bit to plant the fertilizer nom sayan?

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Can you define what an ezmode noob is?

All I ever read from you is “take your training wheels off, get a real build, noob thieves”

So please tell me what do you constitute as a noob build vs man build.

Thanks.

As for the rest of the topic…I feel culling fix and reevaluate is the correct way.

Sure, noob builds are those that require very little effort for decent payout vs bad players, but fail to be effective vs the more experienced players, a good example of this is P/D. Crazy easy to use, but easily countered by experienced players. Any build that relies totally on stealth openers would fall into this category.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Can you define what an ezmode noob is?

All I ever read from you is “take your training wheels off, get a real build, noob thieves”

So please tell me what do you constitute as a noob build vs man build.

Thanks.

As for the rest of the topic…I feel culling fix and reevaluate is the correct way.

Sure, noob builds are those that require very little effort for decent payout vs bad players, but fail to be effective vs the more experienced players, a good example of this is P/D. Crazy easy to use, but easily countered by experienced players. Any build that relies totally on stealth openers would fall into this category.

Ok so let me get this straight. A build that heavily relies on stealth openers is noob in your terms.

So the ONLY weapon set that is not noob according to you is S/P + SB????

Sorry if I sound a lil bit harsh, but I’m generally confused to what you trying to say.

No, the key word is “solely” as in builds that only work with use of stealth as a crutch(and up til this point, culling). There are plenty of builds that primarily use attacks other than C&D and whatever opener you have with the set. The reason I mention P/D specifically is I’m unaware of any build with that weapon set that doesn’t use stealth as a crutch.

A properly designed build can survive in combat without the use of stealth for much greater periods of time. That’s not to say they never use stealth at all, it is a useful tool and does have it’s place. Certain builds, however, totally revolve around the use of stealth and utterly fail to work without it’s use.

Adaneshade.2409:

No, the key word is “solely” as in builds that only work with use of stealth as a crutch(and up til this point, culling). There are plenty of builds that primarily use attacks other than C&D and whatever opener you have with the set. The reason I mention P/D specifically is I’m unaware of any build with that weapon set that doesn’t use stealth as a crutch.

A properly designed build can survive in combat without the use of stealth for much greater periods of time. That’s not to say they never use stealth at all, it is a useful tool and does have it’s place. Certain builds, however, totally revolve around the use of stealth and utterly fail to work without it’s use.

So basically you are saying only non glass builds are pr0 builds….while all glass builds are noob builds.

mmmkay then answer me this:

What takes more skill in a 1v4 scenario….GC thief killing 4 people or your pr0 build thief killing 4 people?

The GC builds that don’t rely on distraction and evasion instead of stealth require tons of skill to play for sure. However, any build that relies purely on stealth is a beginner build as these make it too easy to come back from mistakes.

Not to mention… GC has no place in PvP, never has. Builds without adequate defense show a very limited perception on combat in unpredictable scenarios.

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

The devs posted long time ago that “a thief is new player friendly but requires
a high level of skill to actually master.”

Part of the problem people complain about, is the ability for a low skilled
player to steal (with mug) and get off a combo or two, which results in
massive damage. Now, if you are good at dodging, stun breaking, or have a skill
to use, and you know how a thief plays, you can survive the initial burst.

A big problem with the above statement was culling, in where you didnt have
time to respond or didnt even see it coming. The forums were flooded by
people crying about getting downed so fast as opposed to learning how to
counter it.

As a glass cannon ele for over 1500 hours played, I was always the target for
thieves, but learned to stick around other people and not get caught in the
open. When I did get jumped, I thought of better things I could have done
to avoid the situation.

This isnt meant to offend anyone, but from what Ive experienced is that the
overwhelmingly number of thiefs are not highly skilled. If they dont win on the
initial burst, they run. They have zero ability to enter a sustained fight. As one of
the above posters stated, the changes to stealth will weed them out.

Jinks.2057:

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

I’m referring to use of stealth as your ONLY defensive technique. Obvioulsy chaining C&D would be the absolute worst offender of that. But making a build that requires you to re-enter stealth every 3 seconds on the dot isn’t much better. Why not make a build that has some other defensive measures? Shadowstepping, access to tons of evasion abilities. People who only use stealth are only playing half the class. It shows very linear thinking and a lack of really understanding the class.

As I said before, stealth is a great tool. I use it, it’s the people who don’t even use anything else that fall short of the mark for truly high end PvP.

Thunderbrew.7034:

The devs posted long time ago that “a thief is new player friendly but requires
a high level of skill to actually master.”

Part of the problem people complain about, is the ability for a low skilled
player to steal (with mug) and get off a combo or two, which results in
massive damage. Now, if you are good at dodging, stun breaking, or have a skill
to use, and you know how a thief plays, you can survive the initial burst.

A big problem with the above statement was culling, in where you didnt have
time to respond or didnt even see it coming. The forums were flooded by
people crying about getting downed so fast as opposed to learning how to
counter it.

As a glass cannon ele for over 1500 hours played, I was always the target for
thieves, but learned to stick around other people and not get caught in the
open. When I did get jumped, I thought of better things I could have done
to avoid the situation.

This isnt meant to offend anyone, but from what Ive experienced is that the
overwhelmingly number of thiefs are not highly skilled. If they dont win on the
initial burst, they run. They have zero ability to enter a sustained fight. As one of
the above posters stated, the changes to stealth will weed them out.

This is in essence what I’m referring to… Why would anyone run from a fight? It’s cowardice and cheap gameplay. If you initialize a fight, finish what you started. Proper builds allow a thief to do this, gives them sustainability.

Kaon.7192:

The Ranger forums is the exception rather than the rule.

If only ANet had a dev like Robert for every class. =/

Ha he is not much help IMO. He is of the mind “pets are fine in wvw, just keep them on passive and at your side”

The answer to that Adane, is that the players are looking for a
quick and easy kill because thats the only way they know how to
play.

I think sPvP is a great way to hone 1v1 tactics, but many players would
never survive that format. They rely on catching people at low health,
or fighting with odds in their favor in order to win and “feel good.”

Thunderbrew.7034:

The answer to that Adane, is that the players are looking for a
quick and easy kill because thats the only way they know how to
play.

I think sPvP is a great way to hone 1v1 tactics, but many players would
never survive that format. They rely on catching people at low health,
or fighting with odds in their favor in order to win and “feel good.”

How can you feel good about a fight that wasn’t even a challenge? What did you overcome to earn that victory? There are no bragging rights to be had. This is why I don’t understand people who gank solo upscaled babies in WvW, If that upscaled noob is foolish enough to attack you then kill them. What do you gain by squashing something that doesn’t even stand a real chance of fighting back though?

Trust me I agree, I dont play that way. I was just giving you your answer.

Thunderbrew.7034:

Trust me I agree, I dont play that way. I was just giving you your answer.

Yeah I know, was just a QFT post with some ellaboration ^.^

They are increasing skill cap, and providing counter play. Avoid backstab and when thief comes out of stealth he can’t re stealth. I agree with these changes and I’m a thief main, and don’t make me write an essay about this topic, so ill just say this, in structured pvp I ran a CnD specific build, to keep stealth time to a maximum, and I killed people timing CnD right and never leaving stealth.

Am I the only thief player who WANTS to try and be a fair class to play against?

A.Net is talking about stealth stacking, and I have a problem with them nerfng that, because we are a stealth class, and if we pop out we are revealed, if they decrease stealth stack they might as well get rid of stealth and give us a new mechanic

XZERO.3014:

They are increasing skill cap, and providing counter play. Avoid backstab and when thief comes out of stealth he can’t re stealth. I agree with these changes and I’m a thief main, and don’t make me write an essay about this topic, so ill just say this, in structured pvp I ran a CnD specific build, to keep stealth time to a maximum, and I killed people timing CnD right and never leaving stealth.

Why don’t you take your CnD chain to a TPVP and see how that works out for you…

CnD simply doesn’t do enough damage to kill anyone with a half-decent build.

Moddo.7105:

Kaon.7192:

The Ranger forums is the exception rather than the rule.

If only ANet had a dev like Robert for every class. =/

Ha he is not much help IMO. He is of the mind “pets are fine in wvw, just keep them on passive and at your side”

You may not agree with his opinions, but at least he gives some insight on ANet’s stance on some of the important issues for the class, and actively responds to ideas raised in the forums. You can’t deny that there is tremendous value in the work he’s doing.

Every other class forum is a ghost town in terms of dev response, and that’s just not healthy.

Adaneshade.2409:

Thieves are in a great place atm, especially compared to the issues some other classes still have. There is no “hate” at all for our class, at least from the Devs. The stealth nerfs will be GOOD for our profession as a whole as it will drive out some of the bads and spread that population among the other classes a bit. I’m tired of all thieves being lumped into the same group of “ezmode noobs”, we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

But when you compare the representation at high end sPvP/PvE it’s pretty bad… the class obviously needs some love in some areas.

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

I’m referring to use of stealth as your ONLY defensive technique. Obvioulsy chaining C&D would be the absolute worst offender of that. But making a build that requires you to re-enter stealth every 3 seconds on the dot isn’t much better. Why not make a build that has some other defensive measures? Shadowstepping, access to tons of evasion abilities. People who only use stealth are only playing half the class. It shows very linear thinking and a lack of really understanding the class.

As I said before, stealth is a great tool. I use it, it’s the people who don’t even use anything else that fall short of the mark for truly high end PvP.

Ok so basically you consider evade builds to take more skill than stealth builds…..or a combination of the two to fully play the class at a certain level.

It also seems you have certain builds in mind for “skilled” thief play. For some reason you won’t tell me what they are, nor link them….I don’t understand why you would do this so I’ma throw a few things out there:

1. S/X takes LESS skill than D/D to succeed at a high level
2. Running GC requires MORE skill than running non GC
3. D/P is the true stealth problem not X/D
4. sPvP takes LESS skill than solo roaming WvW

These may be the main points we will disagree about, and since you were kinda beating around the bush i just threw em out. We can debate these or you can come up with what you truly think is a “skilled” build, but I believe I pegged that one down.

You believe a non GC build utilizing shadow steps more so than stealth to achieve victory is the best way to go. The weapon sets you feel take the most skill are S/D or S/P….and I hope to the good lord you don’t think D/P requires special amounts of skill either.

I honestly don’t agree with you.

Creating a build takes skill, creating a build with only one aspect of our dynamic class shows a lack of it. What you’ve listed are weapon set’s, while part of a build, they are not builds. A build includes gear, traits, utilities, runes, sigils, everything about the character. I don’t care what weapon set someone uses so long as they’ve come up with an all inclusive build with it.

I’ve only called out P/D thieves because of the fact that I’ve never seen anyone use a build with it that utilized all of our abilities, only stealth and sneak attack. Because it’s core gameplay only involves the use of 2 abilities (stealth and sneak attack) it’s easy to use, there’s no thought process to it.
This doesn’t mean that one doesn’t exist, I’ve just never seen or heard of it. If you can find anyone using a well rounded P/D build, by all means show it to me.

As for GC builds, the player has left a major hole in the build, that of sustainability. If they don’t manage to kill their opponent on the opening assault, they are forced to run away. Nothing skillfull about that.

Adaneshade.2409:

Creating a build takes skill, creating a build with only one aspect of our dynamic class shows a lack of it. What you’ve listed are weapon set’s, while part of a build, they are not builds. A build includes gear, traits, utilities, runes, sigils, everything about the character. I don’t care what weapon set someone uses so long as they’ve come up with an all inclusive build with it.

I’ve only called out P/D thieves because of the fact that I’ve never seen anyone use a build with it that utilized all of our abilities, only stealth and sneak attack. Because it’s core gameplay only involves the use of 2 abilities (stealth and sneak attack) it’s easy to use, there’s no thought process to it.
This doesn’t mean that one doesn’t exist, I’ve just never seen or heard of it. If you can find anyone using a well rounded P/D build, by all means show it to me.

As for GC builds, the player has left a major hole in the build, that of sustainability. If they don’t manage to kill their opponent on the opening assault, they are forced to run away. Nothing skillfull about that.

Creating a build does not take skill….this isn’t DAoC templating.

Skill in GW2 is solely situation awareness and reflexes. In laymans terms it means goin glass requires more skill than not going glass. You literally have no room for error.

I also watch glass thieves have “sustainability” because they have more skill than crutch weilding P/V/T or Valk thieves.

Besides you never did answer my question.

Anet is nerfing thieves because of QQers that watched a few videos of some glass cannon noob thief 1 shotting upleveled people in WvW, and then this person comes to the forums, “omg thief is so easy to play, did you see that highlight reel where that guy 1 shotted that level 10 guy in wvw! stealth is so overpowered anet fix it for me please so i don’t have to learn how to play or use aoe or any of my other class mechanics!”

Then anet nerfs the thief because of lil johnny QQ who by the way, probably already has quit the thief after he realized it was a lot harder to play than simply pressing 3 buttons and getting insta-kills because the good players already know how to deal with stealth.

Stealth is the thief’s defense mechanic (one of them) considering the extremely low health pool.

So as is, it does seem that empty chair is a pretty accurate of a representation of the devs with regards to thieves.

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

I’m referring to use of stealth as your ONLY defensive technique. Obvioulsy chaining C&D would be the absolute worst offender of that. But making a build that requires you to re-enter stealth every 3 seconds on the dot isn’t much better. Why not make a build that has some other defensive measures? Shadowstepping, access to tons of evasion abilities. People who only use stealth are only playing half the class. It shows very linear thinking and a lack of really understanding the class.

As I said before, stealth is a great tool. I use it, it’s the people who don’t even use anything else that fall short of the mark for truly high end PvP.

Ok so basically you consider evade builds to take more skill than stealth builds…..or a combination of the two to fully play the class at a certain level.

It also seems you have certain builds in mind for “skilled” thief play. For some reason you won’t tell me what they are, nor link them….I don’t understand why you would do this so I’ma throw a few things out there:

1. S/X takes LESS skill than D/D to succeed at a high level
2. Running GC requires MORE skill than running non GC
3. D/P is the true stealth problem not X/D
4. sPvP takes LESS skill than solo roaming WvW

These may be the main points we will disagree about, and since you were kinda beating around the bush i just threw em out. We can debate these or you can come up with what you truly think is a “skilled” build, but I believe I pegged that one down.

You believe a non GC build utilizing shadow steps more so than stealth to achieve victory is the best way to go. The weapon sets you feel take the most skill are S/D or S/P….and I hope to the good lord you don’t think D/P requires special amounts of skill either.

I honestly don’t agree with you.

4. sPvP takes LESS skill than solo roaming WvW….. Not sure if ure serious… Can u explain this point?

Kaon.7192:

Moddo.7105:

Kaon.7192:

The Ranger forums is the exception rather than the rule.

If only ANet had a dev like Robert for every class. =/

Ha he is not much help IMO. He is of the mind “pets are fine in wvw, just keep them on passive and at your side”

You may not agree with his opinions, but at least he gives some insight on ANet’s stance on some of the important issues for the class, and actively responds to ideas raised in the forums. You can’t deny that there is tremendous value in the work he’s doing.

Every other class forum is a ghost town in terms of dev response, and that’s just not healthy.

The ranger community generally likes him, but having him around doesn’t really help us much. He’s on dungeon design, not balance, so the most he can do it bring up our problems to the balance team. It seems to me (and a fair number of other people, I think) that the devs responsible for balance don’t really play rangers.

Zoltreez.6435:

These are the Dev’s that represent the thieves:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5010/5328903665_ace091f1e4.jpg

Obviously, he/she is stealthed, can’t you tell? :P

Kaos.9162:

The ranger community generally likes him, but having him around doesn’t really help us much. He’s on dungeon design, not balance, so the most he can do it bring up our problems to the balance team. It seems to me (and a fair number of other people, I think) that the devs responsible for balance don’t really play rangers.

Ranger player here, and I for one almost cried man tears when he started posting in our forums (“A dev! A dev! Someone at ANet cares! He plays a Ranger, too?! I can’t breathe!”). However, like Kaos mentioned, he’s not on balance, so whether or not we’ll actually see any changes/fixes/overhauls to our profession because of him is as of yet unknown, and is something he himself has constantly reminded us of (lest we jump him if nothing happens, I suppose). Still, having even a modicum of dev input/commentary is night and day compared to having none, especially for our profession and after the months of silence following the now-infamous “Ranger Update” thread.

Epic Beast.5189:

Jinks.2057:

Adaneshade.2409:

Jinks.2057:

You haven’t answered the question….

Also what do call spamming stealth? CnD every 3 seconds after your sneak attack or CnD chaining?

Im sorry but you’re still a lil unclear with your posts

I’m referring to use of stealth as your ONLY defensive technique. Obvioulsy chaining C&D would be the absolute worst offender of that. But making a build that requires you to re-enter stealth every 3 seconds on the dot isn’t much better. Why not make a build that has some other defensive measures? Shadowstepping, access to tons of evasion abilities. People who only use stealth are only playing half the class. It shows very linear thinking and a lack of really understanding the class.

As I said before, stealth is a great tool. I use it, it’s the people who don’t even use anything else that fall short of the mark for truly high end PvP.

Ok so basically you consider evade builds to take more skill than stealth builds…..or a combination of the two to fully play the class at a certain level.

It also seems you have certain builds in mind for “skilled” thief play. For some reason you won’t tell me what they are, nor link them….I don’t understand why you would do this so I’ma throw a few things out there:

1. S/X takes LESS skill than D/D to succeed at a high level
2. Running GC requires MORE skill than running non GC
3. D/P is the true stealth problem not X/D
4. sPvP takes LESS skill than solo roaming WvW

These may be the main points we will disagree about, and since you were kinda beating around the bush i just threw em out. We can debate these or you can come up with what you truly think is a “skilled” build, but I believe I pegged that one down.

You believe a non GC build utilizing shadow steps more so than stealth to achieve victory is the best way to go. The weapon sets you feel take the most skill are S/D or S/P….and I hope to the good lord you don’t think D/P requires special amounts of skill either.

I honestly don’t agree with you.

4. sPvP takes LESS skill than solo roaming WvW….. Not sure if ure serious… Can u explain this point?

In sPvP

Is there less build diversity
Is there a damage cap
Is the game set ib a very controlled environment
Is there a chance to face 10-1 odds

Im sorry but sPvP takes less skill.