Guild Wars 2

o wait april is already past…. man i need to lay off the juice

ps thief still sucks

Thanks for your input! I’ll send this information to a few of the developers personally so I can make sure it gets the proper review it deserves. I’d say if they use your constructive feedback as a guideline for fixing thief, we’d see thief emerge from the darkness and find themselves in a great spot!

Keep up the good work!

ronpierce.2760:

Thanks for your input! I’ll send this information to a few of the developers personally so I can make sure it gets the proper review it deserves. I’d say if they use your constructive feedback as a guideline for fixing thief, we’d see thief emerge from the darkness and find themselves in a great spot!

Keep up the good work!

How about some pepper to go with that salt?

Tbh, there’s kinda threads doesn’t help us at all. When a net see’s threads like this I wounder why they even do anything any more

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Tbh, there’s kinda threads doesn’t help us at all. When a net see’s threads like this I wounder why they even do anything any more

Balancing is never fun. It’s their job, they get payed for it.

Trancid.8514:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Tbh, there’s kinda threads doesn’t help us at all. When a net see’s threads like this I wounder why they even do anything any more

Balancing is never fun. It’s their job, they get payed for it.

People clearly have issues with how they are doing it. How about giving better feedback rather than creating a million "the sky is falling threads that do absolutely nothing.

Also, by the sounds of things, it’s you who is feeling a bit salty.

ronpierce.2760:

People clearly have issues with how they are doing it. How about giving better feedback rather than creating a million "the sky is falling threads that do absolutely nothing.

Also, by the sounds of things, it’s you who is feeling a bit salty.

This so much. Thief forums are currently drowing in salty tears of self-pity.
Kinda hilarious. I’m sure the devs will react to that!

tetrodoxin.2134:

ronpierce.2760:

People clearly have issues with how they are doing it. How about giving better feedback rather than creating a million "the sky is falling threads that do absolutely nothing.

Also, by the sounds of things, it’s you who is feeling a bit salty.

This so much. Thief forums are currently drowing in salty tears of self-pity.
Kinda hilarious. I’m sure the devs will react to that!

Feedback was given since trait preview and 1st day post patch even money was given there was no reaction on thief except for selling DD and purity of pistols 2.0 sooo yeah.

Sagat.3285:

tetrodoxin.2134:

ronpierce.2760:

People clearly have issues with how they are doing it. How about giving better feedback rather than creating a million "the sky is falling threads that do absolutely nothing.

Also, by the sounds of things, it’s you who is feeling a bit salty.

This so much. Thief forums are currently drowing in salty tears of self-pity.
Kinda hilarious. I’m sure the devs will react to that!

Feedback was given since trait preview and 1st day post patch even money was given there was no reaction on thief except for selling DD and purity of pistols 2.0 sooo yeah.

To be fair, very little has changed since then… For anyone. There is a larger balance patch on its way, repeating sarcastic nonsense on the forums isn’t solving anyone’s issue. They don’t produce balance patches at a rate based on pointless threads in the thief section per day.

We still have to deal with Ele in its current state, that alone says there is work to be done and it just hasn’t come yet.

However, as living proof, being reasonable and doing lots of collaboration and write ups, it’s much more beneficial to the class in the long run (as we’re starting to see Necromancers inch out of that terrible spot it was in for 3 years).

Be a part of the solution and you might get the results you desire. (As a whole, not directed at you specifically.)

ronpierce.2760:

Sagat.3285:

tetrodoxin.2134:

ronpierce.2760:

People clearly have issues with how they are doing it. How about giving better feedback rather than creating a million "the sky is falling threads that do absolutely nothing.

Also, by the sounds of things, it’s you who is feeling a bit salty.

This so much. Thief forums are currently drowing in salty tears of self-pity.
Kinda hilarious. I’m sure the devs will react to that!

Feedback was given since trait preview and 1st day post patch even money was given there was no reaction on thief except for selling DD and purity of pistols 2.0 sooo yeah.

To be fair, very little has changed since then… For anyone. There is a larger balance patch on its way, repeating sarcastic nonsense on the forums isn’t solving anyone’s issue. They don’t produce balance patches at a rate based on pointless threads in the thief section per day.

We still have to deal with Ele in its current state, that alone says there is work to be done and it just hasn’t come yet.

However, as living proof, being reasonable and doing lots of collaboration and write ups, it’s much more beneficial to the class in the long run (as we’re starting to see Necromancers inch out of that terrible spot it was in for 3 years).

Be a part of the solution and you might get the results you desire. (As a whole, not directed at you specifically.)

At least they said something about ele(only because of a tournament) and necro. Both thief and ele share “he who knows his name” anyway. They are the ones who decided to do this big revamp but were not prepared to adjust it because of “busy with HoT” that is called bad time management.

At least a mention of putting CiS back to master ,comments on the new condi traits or state of Acro but nothing. The problem with 1 big patch is that if they miss it it’s 6 more months or 3 more years to go and they usually miss stuff. I understand though someone has to save DH and Tempest but some won’t and again bad time management.

Sure, but being sarcastic still isn’t helping anything towards making sure that “one shot” counts. You’d think knowing there is this big of a gap would increase peoples’ willingness to get involved constructively.

Also, nothing about sarcastic attacks at the developer makes Karl want to reach out to you more. The more hostile you are to your developer the more you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Do what Bhawb, Spoj and I do. Take time, write a big objective and well organized set of feedback and directly message Karl about it and just be like “here’s a list of directions we feel thief should be taken in.” Include benefits AND areas you’re willing to take a hit for the greater good, etc.

I will point out one big different between Necromancer and Thief. Necromancers are almost always willing to agree if something they are doing feels too strong or if a suggestion is clearly too outrageous. Thief on the other hand are so combative and I’m not sure I’ve seen… Really any posts saying “we need this tuned down for us to get better elsewhere”.

Why is this important? Because a shift in power is always necessary. It’s bound to happen. But if you only take charge of the buffs you want and never the nerfs, that’s how you end up in situations where you get a nerf from left field that totally breaks you.

Balance is a two way street, and you have to help with both sides, and do so constructively or you will just end up with whatever the developer was able to think up alone,

official.7362:

o wait april is already past…. man i need to lay off the juice

ps thief still sucks

It’s up to the devs to do something about it though.

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, but being sarcastic still isn’t helping anything towards making sure that “one shot” counts. You’d think knowing there is this big of a gap would increase peoples’ willingness to get involved constructively.

Also, nothing about sarcastic attacks at the developer makes Karl want to reach out to you more. The more hostile you are to your developer the more you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Do what Bhawb, Spoj and I do. Take time, write a big objective and well organized set of feedback and directly message Karl about it and just be like “here’s a list of directions we feel thief should be taken in.” Include benefits AND areas you’re willing to take a hit for the greater good, etc.

I will point out one big different between Necromancer and Thief. Necromancers are almost always willing to agree if something they are doing feels too strong or if a suggestion is clearly too outrageous. Thief on the other hand are so combative and I’m not sure I’ve seen… Really any posts saying “we need this tuned down for us to get better elsewhere”.

Why is this important? Because a shift in power is always necessary. It’s bound to happen. But if you only take charge of the buffs you want and never the nerfs, that’s how you end up in situations where you get a nerf from left field that totally breaks you.

Balance is a two way street, and you have to help with both sides, and do so constructively or you will just end up with whatever the developer was able to think up alone,

I’ve(and others) given my feedback already on the new condi traits and SA not acro but others did, dig deeper. The nerfs have already happened on thief ×/d sets have been put to p/p level not sure what needed to be nerfed on them while d/ p barely go scratched and I don’t remember anything on necro to nerf to buff unless those “nerf dagger will buff GS” threads count.

Robert did a get a rough entry after trait revamp but look he didn’t stealth, he talked to his level and reacted with positive changes not perfect but positive he even broke the “balancing around perfect scenarios” rule I applied to necro. I know it’s a team effort but he claims us so the negativity of the forums goes to him nothing against him personally it’s criticism as a dev you embrace that and respond with changes or reasons not stealth. Someone give me a counter to his stealth.

ronpierce.2760:

Thanks for your input! I’ll send this information to a few of the developers personally so I can make sure it gets the proper review it deserves. I’d say if they use your constructive feedback as a guideline for fixing thief, we’d see thief emerge from the darkness and find themselves in a great spot!

Keep up the good work!

Wow !!! Really???

How about we stop giving anymore constructive feedbacks? We are done giving constructive feedbacks. Let them read all the constructive feedbacks we have been giving for past years.

I have not seen any results yet. How much more time do they need to fix the class?

Shogun.7401:

ronpierce.2760:

Thanks for your input! I’ll send this information to a few of the developers personally so I can make sure it gets the proper review it deserves. I’d say if they use your constructive feedback as a guideline for fixing thief, we’d see thief emerge from the darkness and find themselves in a great spot!

Keep up the good work!

Wow !!! Really???

How about we stop giving anymore constructive feedbacks? We are done giving constructive feedbacks. Let them read all the constructive feedbacks we have been giving for past years.

I have not seen any results yet. How much more time do they need to fix the class?

The same as any other? Balance patches don’t happen at the snap of any one classes fingers. If it did, the d/d Ele issue would be handled by now. I’ve already explained this.

No amount of unconstructive posts leads to quicker balance updates. It just makes you look bad. It’s as simple as that.

ronpierce.2760:

Trancid.8514:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Tbh, there’s kinda threads doesn’t help us at all. When a net see’s threads like this I wounder why they even do anything any more

Balancing is never fun. It’s their job, they get payed for it.

People clearly have issues with how they are doing it. How about giving better feedback rather than creating a million "the sky is falling threads that do absolutely nothing.

Also, by the sounds of things, it’s you who is feeling a bit salty.

Please refer to:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Change-Wish-List

And the threads that are linked inside there, and the discussion that went on those threads. This is not to mention that I missed some.

There is a TON of feedback – not to mention right under their nose in the BWE3 sticky.

So tell me again why we can’t be salty that it’s being complete ignored.

I am not talking about DD. I am talking about normal thief class. It was getting bad a year ago and I quit the game. Now it’s worst.

So dev’s – " keep up the good work"

whining got us here, so whining will get us out.

pce

Sagat.3285:

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, but being sarcastic still isn’t helping anything towards making sure that “one shot” counts. You’d think knowing there is this big of a gap would increase peoples’ willingness to get involved constructively.

Also, nothing about sarcastic attacks at the developer makes Karl want to reach out to you more. The more hostile you are to your developer the more you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Do what Bhawb, Spoj and I do. Take time, write a big objective and well organized set of feedback and directly message Karl about it and just be like “here’s a list of directions we feel thief should be taken in.” Include benefits AND areas you’re willing to take a hit for the greater good, etc.

I will point out one big different between Necromancer and Thief. Necromancers are almost always willing to agree if something they are doing feels too strong or if a suggestion is clearly too outrageous. Thief on the other hand are so combative and I’m not sure I’ve seen… Really any posts saying “we need this tuned down for us to get better elsewhere”.

Why is this important? Because a shift in power is always necessary. It’s bound to happen. But if you only take charge of the buffs you want and never the nerfs, that’s how you end up in situations where you get a nerf from left field that totally breaks you.

Balance is a two way street, and you have to help with both sides, and do so constructively or you will just end up with whatever the developer was able to think up alone,

I’ve(and others) given my feedback already on the new condi traits and SA not acro but others did, dig deeper. The nerfs have already happened on thief ×/d sets have been put to p/p level not sure what needed to be nerfed on them while d/ p barely go scratched and I don’t remember anything on necro to nerf to buff unless those “nerf dagger will buff GS” threads count.

Robert did a get a rough entry after trait revamp but look he didn’t stealth, he talked to his level and reacted with positive changes not perfect but positive he even broke the “balancing around perfect scenarios” rule I applied to necro. I know it’s a team effort but he claims us so the negativity of the forums goes to him nothing against him personally it’s criticism as a dev you embrace that and respond with changes or reasons not stealth. Someone give me a counter to his stealth.

In regards to the nerf-to-buff. You have to look at non-numerical things (at least in case of thief), such as Shortbow 5. The thing that comes to mind as consideration, and remember, I’m on your side, thieves need help, but there is literally only so much they can do to make a class better in teams or even 1v1s while leaving mobility at the levels they are. A direct buff to, say, a mesmers level (though, I’d rather them go down) while maintaining other thief perks, you’d simply become the next OP class, and that’s why trade offs are important. Thief are in such a rough state right now because they have perks that they do so well that if you give them too much, they would become irreplaceable.

As for Necromancer give/take. Many necromancers want better LF generation (on weapons that lack it obviously), and VP to be baseline for diversity reasons. That said, we realize Spectral mastery and maybe even Spectral Armor would need to be shaved down to allow for that to happen. Many even agree we’d take a 15 or so % nerf to our total life force pool, just to use it more reliably, and to increase diversity. Providing areas for nerfs doesn’t mean forcing a nerf for buffs. It means logically seeing what needs to be done to allow for net-positive growth, without leading to more issues.

Back to thief, and why that is relevant, you can’t boost an agile attacker to making them too much bulkier (for sake of team fights) or too much better at deleting a target while still being able to zip around a map at will because it creates further issues.

These are things that need to have solid solutions to ensure you don’t just end up getting nerfed again the next patch, and without proper input on how to handle it.

Another good example: Turret Engineer. Got buffed into a very powerful spot, but needed to be snapped back into reality, and the result was a completely unusable set of utilities because their strong points got demolished.

I’m not trying to be a jerk here, I’m just being honest. If you want to be a “balanced” class, you have to really consider the aftermath, much more than just getting boosts because balance isn’t just the next patch.

ronpierce.2760:

In regards to the nerf-to-buff. You have to look at non-numerical things (at least in case of thief), such as Shortbow 5.

Thief are in such a rough state right now because they have perks that they do so well that if you give them too much, they would become irreplaceable.

yknow, thats another thing.

Vertical mobility at the cost of half of a thief’s initiative?

I dont think that mobility is worth nerfing the rest of their core.

Remember, on land, Warriors outpace us.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

ronpierce.2760:

In regards to the nerf-to-buff. You have to look at non-numerical things (at least in case of thief), such as Shortbow 5.

Thief are in such a rough state right now because they have perks that they do so well that if you give them too much, they would become irreplaceable.

yknow, thats another thing.

Vertical mobility at the cost of half of a thief’s initiative?

I dont think that mobility is worth nerfing the rest of their core.

Remember, on land, Warriors outpace us.

I don’t really feel like getting into this debate because it never ends well, but there’s a reason why Magic Toker can carry a WTS on decaps. No other class can navigate in the same way. Part of it has to do with it being vertical, the other part about the “burst-of-mobility”, but either way you look at it, it’s already what basically solidifies a thief’s position in a team as part of the highest-level meta-game.

It just is what it is, and you could argue its potency, but the proof is in that no other class does what a thief can do, and I personally believe the thief’s core suffers for it.

ronpierce.2760:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

ronpierce.2760:

In regards to the nerf-to-buff. You have to look at non-numerical things (at least in case of thief), such as Shortbow 5.

Thief are in such a rough state right now because they have perks that they do so well that if you give them too much, they would become irreplaceable.

yknow, thats another thing.

Vertical mobility at the cost of half of a thief’s initiative?

I dont think that mobility is worth nerfing the rest of their core.

Remember, on land, Warriors outpace us.

I don’t really feel like getting into this debate because it never ends well, but there’s a reason why Magic Toker can carry a WTS on decaps. No other class can navigate in the same way. Part of it has to do with it being vertical, the other part about the “burst-of-mobility”, but either way you look at it, it’s already what basically solidifies a thief’s position in a team as part of the highest-level meta-game.

It just is what it is, and you could argue its potency, but the proof is in that no other class does what a thief can do, and I personally believe the thief’s core suffers for it.

Dont worry, don’t wanna debate.

Just wanted to hear your opinion.

ronpierce.2760:

Sagat.3285:

ronpierce.2760:

Sure, but being sarcastic still isn’t helping anything towards making sure that “one shot” counts. You’d think knowing there is this big of a gap would increase peoples’ willingness to get involved constructively.

Also, nothing about sarcastic attacks at the developer makes Karl want to reach out to you more. The more hostile you are to your developer the more you’re shooting yourself in the foot.

Do what Bhawb, Spoj and I do. Take time, write a big objective and well organized set of feedback and directly message Karl about it and just be like “here’s a list of directions we feel thief should be taken in.” Include benefits AND areas you’re willing to take a hit for the greater good, etc.

I will point out one big different between Necromancer and Thief. Necromancers are almost always willing to agree if something they are doing feels too strong or if a suggestion is clearly too outrageous. Thief on the other hand are so combative and I’m not sure I’ve seen… Really any posts saying “we need this tuned down for us to get better elsewhere”.

Why is this important? Because a shift in power is always necessary. It’s bound to happen. But if you only take charge of the buffs you want and never the nerfs, that’s how you end up in situations where you get a nerf from left field that totally breaks you.

Balance is a two way street, and you have to help with both sides, and do so constructively or you will just end up with whatever the developer was able to think up alone,

I’ve(and others) given my feedback already on the new condi traits and SA not acro but others did, dig deeper. The nerfs have already happened on thief ×/d sets have been put to p/p level not sure what needed to be nerfed on them while d/ p barely go scratched and I don’t remember anything on necro to nerf to buff unless those “nerf dagger will buff GS” threads count.

Robert did a get a rough entry after trait revamp but look he didn’t stealth, he talked to his level and reacted with positive changes not perfect but positive he even broke the “balancing around perfect scenarios” rule I applied to necro. I know it’s a team effort but he claims us so the negativity of the forums goes to him nothing against him personally it’s criticism as a dev you embrace that and respond with changes or reasons not stealth. Someone give me a counter to his stealth.

In regards to the nerf-to-buff. You have to look at non-numerical things (at least in case of thief), such as Shortbow 5. The thing that comes to mind as consideration, and remember, I’m on your side, thieves need help, but there is literally only so much they can do to make a class better in teams or even 1v1s while leaving mobility at the levels they are. A direct buff to, say, a mesmers level (though, I’d rather them go down) while maintaining other thief perks, you’d simply become the next OP class, and that’s why trade offs are important. Thief are in such a rough state right now because they have perks that they do so well that if you give them too much, they would become irreplaceable.

As for Necromancer give/take. Many necromancers want better LF generation (on weapons that lack it obviously), and VP to be baseline for diversity reasons. That said, we realize Spectral mastery and maybe even Spectral Armor would need to be shaved down to allow for that to happen. Many even agree we’d take a 15 or so % nerf to our total life force pool, just to use it more reliably, and to increase diversity. Providing areas for nerfs doesn’t mean forcing a nerf for buffs. It means logically seeing what needs to be done to allow for net-positive growth, without leading to more issues.

Back to thief, and why that is relevant, you can’t boost an agile attacker to making them too much bulkier (for sake of team fights) or too much better at deleting a target while still being able to zip around a map at will because it creates further issues.

These are things that need to have solid solutions to ensure you don’t just end up getting nerfed again the next patch, and without proper input on how to handle it.

Another good example: Turret Engineer. Got buffed into a very powerful spot, but needed to be snapped back into reality, and the result was a completely unusable set of utilities because their strong points got demolished.

I’m not trying to be a jerk here, I’m just being honest. If you want to be a “balanced” class, you have to really consider the aftermath, much more than just getting boosts because balance isn’t just the next patch.

I and others have spoken on SB#5 and thief presence in combat already. Let’s do logic you have 1 melee set but your other set is for disengage so you can’t really stay in fights mm what are my other ranged options since double melee is not needed due to initiative, p/p and p/d but those are too weak and got gutted in addition for no reason. Mmm ha maybe HoT is bringing a ranged option for that oh we get another melee mm what now? Mm more reveals are coming but staff is weaker than d/p mm but meh I have other classes.

I don’t understand “he who knows his name” ‘s logic at all when it comes to that. Zero(and the entire section) has threads for base thief feedback. I don’t like debates either but there is no excuse right now.

Trancid.8514:

ronpierce.2760:

Thanks for your input! I’ll send this information to a few of the developers personally so I can make sure it gets the proper review it deserves. I’d say if they use your constructive feedback as a guideline for fixing thief, we’d see thief emerge from the darkness and find themselves in a great spot!

Keep up the good work!

How about some pepper to go with that salt?

salt 2 high quality bruh.

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns”, there is much less incentive for needing two combat weapon sets compared to basically any other class. You might have less combat buttons, but you’re able to utilize one more, making two (more or less) redundant. Especially since they share a resource pool, swapping means fairly little.

Example, D/P → S/D means a change in play style, but your goal is still to avoid damage and deal as much as you can. You can get a similar outcome by just camping one.

Say another class… Warrior, for example. They might Blow their cooldowns but their auto attack doesn’t justify not swapping to a different weapon not on cooldown, so swapping means something more than just play style, it’s opportunity.

Some may see this as a weakness, but in reality, it’s a good part of thief. They don’t need to force a change in play style and fill up a second weapon slot to fill (essentially) the same role, like a GS+Axe warrior might. Instead you get to focus around making one set work to your advantage, and using a second set for utility. Necromancer’s are similar to Thief in this regard because much of their use for Dagger is in the auto attack and it lets them stay in melee or shroud longer, reserving Staff for utility. It’s more of a perk than a draw-back to not feel obligated to swap weapons to do a very similar thing.

As for Pistol, you’ve heard just as much as Necromancer has for Axe/Scepter. We’ve heard Gee is looking into it and that they’re weak. Karl said Pistols were weak and they were going to try to buff them. At this point, it is just a waiting game, but, back to the whole reason I ended up in this thread, more salt and more frustration onto the fire with sarcastic posts isn’t helping anything at this point. You can be frustrated, but you’re only making yourself (and others) more frustrated by spreading the negativity.

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

You missed my point, so good job. It is, but it’s shared, thus swapping to a different offensive set provides no real incentive, where as swapping weapons on a class with ACTUAL “cooldowns” does. Don’t jump in here to post ignorant memes, please.

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

You missed my point, so good job. It is, but it’s shared, thus swapping to a different offensive set provides no real incentive, where as swapping weapons on a class with ACTUAL “cooldowns” does. Don’t jump in here to post ignorant memes, please.

Sorry, can’t stand when someone says no cool downs. It’s almost like an automatic knee-jerking reaction.

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

You missed my point, so good job. It is, but it’s shared, thus swapping to a different offensive set provides no real incentive, where as swapping weapons on a class with ACTUAL “cooldowns” does. Don’t jump in here to post ignorant memes, please.

Sorry, can’t stand when someone says no cool downs. It’s almost like an automatic reaction.

Well, I meant what I said, given the proper context. I’m not suggesting thieves are endless spammers, I’m saying that the lack of cooldowns on a given weapon provides no direct incentive to require more than one offensive weapon set. For this reason, unless weapons started providing VASTLY unique perks, given trait restraints, you’ll probably see most people only ever need one weapon set that’s traited to be fully effective, and the shortbow for utility.

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

You missed my point, so good job. It is, but it’s shared, thus swapping to a different offensive set provides no real incentive, where as swapping weapons on a class with ACTUAL “cooldowns” does. Don’t jump in here to post ignorant memes, please.

Sorry, can’t stand when someone says no cool downs. It’s almost like an automatic reaction.

Well, I meant what I said, given the proper context. I’m not suggesting thieves are endless spammers, I’m saying that the lack of cooldowns on a given weapon provides no direct incentive to require more than one offensive weapon set. For this reason, unless weapons started providing VASTLY unique perks, given trait restraints, you’ll probably see most people only ever need one weapon set that’s traited to be fully effective, and the shortbow for utility.

Which yeah, is pretty true.
I was also kind of wonder about staff replacing SB when it was first revealed – It seemed like a more offensive counter-part to the SB, but still providing that #5 mobility skill … But then it was tested in BWE…. and the feedback doesn’t seem so great…

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Zero Day.2594:

ronpierce.2760:

Well. I will say one thing on the weapon swap situation for thief. Because of how initiative works and no actual “cooldowns” -

You missed my point, so good job. It is, but it’s shared, thus swapping to a different offensive set provides no real incentive, where as swapping weapons on a class with ACTUAL “cooldowns” does. Don’t jump in here to post ignorant memes, please.

Sorry, can’t stand when someone says no cool downs. It’s almost like an automatic reaction.

Well, I meant what I said, given the proper context. I’m not suggesting thieves are endless spammers, I’m saying that the lack of cooldowns on a given weapon provides no direct incentive to require more than one offensive weapon set. For this reason, unless weapons started providing VASTLY unique perks, given trait restraints, you’ll probably see most people only ever need one weapon set that’s traited to be fully effective, and the shortbow for utility.

Which yeah, is pretty true.
I was also kind of wonder about staff replacing SB when it was first revealed – It seemed like a more offensive counter-part to the SB, but still providing that #5 mobility skill … But then it was tested in BWE…. and the feedback doesn’t seem so great…

And before someone gets the idea about nerfing SB. It definitly got nerfed dnough one EVERY SINGLE weaponskill. Even AA ^^

About initiative and being a different cooldown. There were/are people actually saying we wouldn’t have cooldowns on our weaponskills. The idea about there are different kinds of cooldowns just doesn’t get into their mind apparently.
So we thieves got a bit sensible in that point.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

When a net see’s threads like this I wounder why they even do anything any more

But they don’t do anything anymore.
They don’t even bother nerfing us now
They just buff everyone else and let us suffer, ignored.

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Guardian’s healing will be 1/3rd of its current effectiveness. Burning will no longer stack as well

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Eh, I don’t mind it. Always felt like LF should generate up (or down) quickly out of combat to 25% so we don’t start out with too much of an edge or with absolutely no life force at all, personally. The part I don’t appreciate is how hardheaded people can be, and then complains no Devs want to communicate with them.

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Eh, I don’t mind it. Always felt like LF should generate up (or down) quickly out of combat to 25% so we don’t start out with too much of an edge or with absolutely no life force at all, personally. The part I don’t appreciate is how hardheaded people can be, and then complains no Devs want to communicate with them.

Oh no ooc you get 0 LF and I wouldn’t even increase the build up time. In fact I feel the build up speed should be toned down on the weapons that build it faster

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Eh, I don’t mind it. Always felt like LF should generate up (or down) quickly out of combat to 25% so we don’t start out with too much of an edge or with absolutely no life force at all, personally. The part I don’t appreciate is how hardheaded people can be, and then complains no Devs want to communicate with them.

Oh no ooc you get 0 LF and I wouldn’t even increase the build up time. In fact I feel the build up speed should be toned down on the weapons that build it faster

Ah. Okay. Thief needs to start with 0 initiative. Or whatever… -rolls eyes-

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Eh, I don’t mind it. Always felt like LF should generate up (or down) quickly out of combat to 25% so we don’t start out with too much of an edge or with absolutely no life force at all, personally. The part I don’t appreciate is how hardheaded people can be, and then complains no Devs want to communicate with them.

Oh no ooc you get 0 LF and I wouldn’t even increase the build up time. In fact I feel the build up speed should be toned down on the weapons that build it faster

Ah. Okay. Thief needs to start with 0 initiative. Or whatever… -rolls eyes-

I see you’re really starting to appreciate it now.

Good then we are in agreement that my proposal is balanced due to the OP nature of cele necro

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Eh, I don’t mind it. Always felt like LF should generate up (or down) quickly out of combat to 25% so we don’t start out with too much of an edge or with absolutely no life force at all, personally. The part I don’t appreciate is how hardheaded people can be, and then complains no Devs want to communicate with them.

Oh no ooc you get 0 LF and I wouldn’t even increase the build up time. In fact I feel the build up speed should be toned down on the weapons that build it faster

Ah. Okay. Thief needs to start with 0 initiative. Or whatever… -rolls eyes-

I see you’re really starting to appreciate it now.

Good then we are in agreement that my proposal is balanced due to the OP nature of cele necro

Yeah, man. You understand balance.

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Eh, I don’t mind it. Always felt like LF should generate up (or down) quickly out of combat to 25% so we don’t start out with too much of an edge or with absolutely no life force at all, personally. The part I don’t appreciate is how hardheaded people can be, and then complains no Devs want to communicate with them.

Oh no ooc you get 0 LF and I wouldn’t even increase the build up time. In fact I feel the build up speed should be toned down on the weapons that build it faster

Ah. Okay. Thief needs to start with 0 initiative. Or whatever… -rolls eyes-

I see you’re really starting to appreciate it now.

Good then we are in agreement that my proposal is balanced due to the OP nature of cele necro

Yeah, man. You understand balance.

Just applying the concepts of thief balancing to the rest of the game.

What you don’t like being treated like a thief??

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Eh, I don’t mind it. Always felt like LF should generate up (or down) quickly out of combat to 25% so we don’t start out with too much of an edge or with absolutely no life force at all, personally. The part I don’t appreciate is how hardheaded people can be, and then complains no Devs want to communicate with them.

Oh no ooc you get 0 LF and I wouldn’t even increase the build up time. In fact I feel the build up speed should be toned down on the weapons that build it faster

Ah. Okay. Thief needs to start with 0 initiative. Or whatever… -rolls eyes-

I see you’re really starting to appreciate it now.

Good then we are in agreement that my proposal is balanced due to the OP nature of cele necro

Yeah, man. You understand balance.

Just applying the concepts of thief balancing to the rest of the game.

What you don’t like being treated like a thief??

Mmm, any concepts I apply to thief I do apply to other classes. I just don’t act so silly and grudge-driven about it.

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

ronpierce.2760:

T raw.4658:

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Here’s a good reason to take you seriously when you complain. /s

I see you don’t appreciate my balancing for necros huh?

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Eh, I don’t mind it. Always felt like LF should generate up (or down) quickly out of combat to 25% so we don’t start out with too much of an edge or with absolutely no life force at all, personally. The part I don’t appreciate is how hardheaded people can be, and then complains no Devs want to communicate with them.

Oh no ooc you get 0 LF and I wouldn’t even increase the build up time. In fact I feel the build up speed should be toned down on the weapons that build it faster

Ah. Okay. Thief needs to start with 0 initiative. Or whatever… -rolls eyes-

I see you’re really starting to appreciate it now.

Good then we are in agreement that my proposal is balanced due to the OP nature of cele necro

Yeah, man. You understand balance.

Just applying the concepts of thief balancing to the rest of the game.

What you don’t like being treated like a thief??

Mmm, any concepts I apply to thief I do apply to other classes. I just act more silly and grudge-driven about it.

Fixed for actual accuracy.

For what it’s worth, ronpierce is probably the only “non-thief” player in our forums making constructive and factual posts that I’ve seen any time recently.

Amante.8109:

For what it’s worth, ronpierce is probably the only “non-thief” player in our forums making constructive and factual posts that I’ve seen any time recently.

Indeed. I appreciate his objectivity even though I’m pretty kitten dissatisfied atm.

Ha! Developers should have went rifle and called him a Commando. That way, this april fool thread would work better.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Amante.8109:

For what it’s worth, ronpierce is probably the only “non-thief” player in our forums making constructive and factual posts that I’ve seen any time recently.

Indeed. I appreciate his objectivity even though I’m pretty kitten dissatisfied atm.

Well, I’m not saying there isn’t a reason to be. I agree the ‘role’ of a thief (the only role they can even fill) can be an un-fulfilling one. And they have gotten a bit of the short end of the stick, especially since Mesmers have sort of taken lead of the team spike/burster, a role that teams don’t usually need many of or the team becomes too easy to kill in team fights.

All I’ve been trying to say from the start is that sarcasm and being rude isn’t going to fix it. A better balance involves forging a better relationship with your developers and continually giving constructive feedback, etc. And meanwhile, remember that while pigeonholed, thief does have a considerable perk, and it is one that has to be and is balanced around. To ensure better class changes, people need to stay objective and look at it from all angles and predict what issues may arise from changes suggested.

That’s pretty much it. I’m not trying to say thieves are OP and deserve to be kicked while down, just that this could be handled better and you’ll get better results the more mature it’s handled.

And lastly, you just have to be patient. No one is a fan of 6 month balance patch, but there isn’t a lot we can really do about it at this point. Especially since a majority of their efforts are on HoT.

Wow, that back and forth thing there was like watching monkeys throw poop at each other. No offense to you Ron, I respect your opinion.

I will be starting a new campaign on ever class in this game.

Necro LF will be treated like adrenaline. It rapidly depletes when oocyte

Engi now have 20 second cd on all kits and elixir s skill and passive have to be used 45 secs a part or fail.

Mesmers PU now only gives 1 sec extra stealth and zero protection and lose all access to blind

Warriors can no longer stack stances and have to wait 20 secs between stances.

Rangers lose all burning and taunt.

Ele loses blinding ashes and ALL blast finishers on daggers

Guardian’s healing will be 1/3rd of its current effectiveness. Burning will no longer stack as well

I feel like the only part of this that would go over well with anybody would be the changes to burn, and even those are a little harsher than what is necessary.

Temujin.7356:

Ha! Developers should have went rifle and called him a Commando. That way, this april fool thread would work better.

There was more in rifle than a joke and 1200 range.

T raw.4658:

That’s too bad since we’ve been stuck reading your “ideas” for years

Not that I want to be part of this argument, but… why the quotation marks?
Are you accusing this person of being incapable of forming ideas?