Guild Wars 2

The main complaint people have about thieves in wvw is the fact we are king of roaming. People have never complained about thieves in Zerg battles.

The more anti stealth you add in this game the more you are going to force thieves to roam and avoid Zerg battles.

Anti stealth makes thieves useless in Zerg battles due to not having any other defenses.

I come from Daoc where there is plenty of anti stealth. Stealth classes are completely useless in that game in big Zerg battles due to all the anti stealth and lack of other forms of defense other than stealth. They are truly a solo/roam class.

If you go ahead with these changes you will be forcing thieves out of big Zerg battles and more into small skirmishes roaming. People will still complain about stealth just as much.

I personally do not see this as good thing for any mmo. I do not like the idea of forcing a class to play certain way. If you want to Zerg with a thief, you should be able to do so. If you want to roam, you should be able to do so.

Thieves already suck at zerging, these changes will make then completely undeservingly in Zerg fights. The only useful skill we will have is blast finishers for buff stacking.

Thieves are fine in wvw. We are the best roamer but not the best zerger by design. Most are ok with that.

I don’t like direction you are going in for wvw with thieves. After these traps go in we won’t be able to near anything that is slightly defended. We will be forced to roam the outskirts.

I won’t be able to play the game for at least 2 months so I can’t test out current changes. I am recovering from surgery.

anet has a very hard job i will agree with that but this just cant be intelligent on any lvl right?

Stealth already doesn’t do much in zerg fights, and anyway it all depends on how they implement these ‘traps’.

I see this as a way to reduce the effectiveness of roaming Thieves (face it, we are OP at roaming) while not having to touch PvE or sPvP, by changing the environment of WvW not to favor this class so much.

This way, they can improve the zerg-fight potential of Thieves without making us the only choice for roaming (which will happen if they just buff Thieves because “we suck at zerg fights”)

And again, it really depends how the traps are implemented. It seems like a step in the right direction.

WHO CARES ABOUT ROAMING!? IT CHANGES NOTHING! IF YOU GO IN A WVW SETTING WHERE YOU CAN FACE UP TO 150 ENEMIES WHY WOULD YOU TRAVEL ALONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

GoD! a thief is good at 1 v 1 which matters nothing anywhere in the game and is SUPER TERRIBLE at group play. so lets make them super bad at group play AND super easy to defeat at 1 v 1 too? wtf is the point in this its stupid. plain and simple. im done playing if they mess this up. as a consumer and osmebody who spends money ont his game now and then….i expect a FULL rework of thieves if they do this. if not im moving to the next game no big deal. i mean i like my guardian too but not as much. i played monk in gw1 and assassin as backup. this game has no monks. so i was sad about that….thief was closest thign to assassin so i picked that thinking it my be fun and now its a joke.

not yelling at you sunflowers lol just ranting bc yes i agree thieves are very very good at 1 v 1 but who cares it doesnt change anythign. put a sign up or advertise the game RIGHT! its not a hero kind of game where it rrevolves around a player. it revolves around guilds and the power/organization behind them. its in the name for x sakes. bleh

No the point is to make Thieves worse for 1v1 so that they can be buffed for group play.

Isn’t that what everyone wants, anyway?

You guys are missing an even more obvious effect, assuming it pulles out out of stealth, our stealth moves will also be stripped from us. That like, taking away an attack from another class

thief is very powerful 1 v 1 but not so much that you have to destroy them. they owe us these promised “buffs” now for like what ? 3-4 months? our defense is horrendous. im ok with it as is but def need a little more dmg or good aoe dmg. if u add that then i think thief is fine. if u go play a really good mesmer….they will now kill you much faster than a thief. thats guaranteed. first the thief is too strong. then invis is too good. then LS is too good. then stealth needs to go. i understand its annoying to fight a thief. but even thieves fight thieves so we all deal with it. just bc u can go stealth doesnt make it any easier to hit somebody in stealth. and one class is always in any game going to be a lil better than the rest at 1 v 1. if u try to make them all even at all parts the game is boring. if thief gets too much AOE dmg then just play any class they would all be the same. guardians are buff monsters….eles are spam freaks…..necros are condition stackers….thieves “were” burst kittens……its nice so you can pick what playstyle suits you.

have all the haters even thought about asking for their class to be buffed instead of a thief nerf? no….they just wanna ruin another class that they dont play.

RedSpectrum.1975:

You guys are missing an even more obvious effect, assuming it pulles out out of stealth, our stealth moves will also be stripped from us. That like, taking away an attack from another class

this is just cheap and a game ruiner…so many are goign to quit. watch :P

thief will lose backstab….heals….condi removal…blinds….sneak attack….tactical strike….surprise shot…intiative regen….health regen…

so unless they can add all this stuff into another thief mechanic (and only 1 so its usable) its going to be a showstopper for thieves.

Travlane.5948:

WHO CARES ABOUT ROAMING!? IT CHANGES NOTHING! IF YOU GO IN A WVW SETTING WHERE YOU CAN FACE UP TO 150 ENEMIES WHY WOULD YOU TRAVEL ALONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

GoD! a thief is good at 1 v 1 which matters nothing anywhere in the game and is SUPER TERRIBLE at group play. so lets make them super bad at group play AND super easy to defeat at 1 v 1 too? wtf is the point in this its stupid. plain and simple. im done playing if they mess this up. as a consumer and osmebody who spends money ont his game now and then….i expect a FULL rework of thieves if they do this. if not im moving to the next game no big deal. i mean i like my guardian too but not as much. i played monk in gw1 and assassin as backup. this game has no monks. so i was sad about that….thief was closest thign to assassin so i picked that thinking it my be fun and now its a joke.

I care about roaming. I would rather my server lose than get killed 1v1 from behind without any warning

1v1 is personal. It matters. Zergs dying…I couldn’t care less.

i get you on that ….its a lil pride. they should implement a new system for scoring where invidvidual kills and kill streaks could add to the score somehow. then i would say…yeah thieves are too strong at roaming and are causing problem all over. if u wanna run solo ur gonna die. thief or not. just a matter of time b4 u get outnumbered. thief is good at 1 v 1 which has no place in guild wars 2……yet they suck horribly in zerg play….. what if they were traded. what if thief was doing like 4k dmg to everyone in an AOE skill? then did a 2 sec AOE stun with a 3 sec AOE immob at same time . yet they sucked at 1 v 1/? would u still cry? yes….lose lose situation for thieves. just erase them…its the only way QQrs will smile. babies :P im an amazing thief at S/D P/D and D/P…..but even i lose 1 v 1s to great players. it happens.

Travlane.5948:

i get you on that ….its a lil pride. they should implement a new system for scoring where invidvidual kills and kill streaks could add to the score somehow. then i would say…yeah thieves are too strong at roaming and are causing problem all over. if u wanna run solo ur gonna die. thief or not. just a matter of time b4 u get outnumbered. thief is good at 1 v 1 which has no place in guild wars 2……yet they suck horribly in zerg play….. what if they were traded. what if thief was doing like 4k dmg to everyone in an AOE skill? then did a 2 sec AOE stun with a 3 sec AOE immob at same time . yet they sucked at 1 v 1/? would u still cry? yes….lose lose situation for thieves. just erase them…its the only way QQrs will smile. babies :P im an amazing thief at S/D P/D and D/P…..but even i lose 1 v 1s to great players. it happens.

Oh I’m not afraid of thieves anymore. I run the immortal mesmer build and no thief can get me down without dying of retaliation . Or if I run my phantasm mesmer it’s even easier to kill them. Naturally I can’t prevent a thief from running away, but still…

I was just responding to the assertion that 1v1 doesn’t matter. I really don’t care about which server is on top. All I know is that I should personally be able to take care of myself 1 on 1.

bhagwad.4281:

Oh I’m not afraid of thieves anymore. I run the immortal mesmer build and no thief can get me down without dying of retaliation . Or if I run my phantasm mesmer it’s even easier to kill them. Naturally I can’t prevent a thief from running away, but still…

I was just responding to the assertion that 1v1 doesn’t matter. I really don’t care about which server is on top. All I know is that I should personally be able to take care of myself 1 on 1.

That is so very easy to build. Mesmer can become invincible vs thief, but thief can’t build anything to counter mesmer. This is part of the problem I have noted many times in the past. It’s called OP mesmer builds vs UP thief profession.

The point of this thread was to let anet know that they are going down a road that is forcing a class to play a certain way.

Which IMO is a bad idea.

Why isn’t there any anti invuln, or anti clones, or any other anti skills for other classes.

Anet clearly making another change to satisfy people crying about thieves.

I really wish anet would just tell the public to stop complaining about stealth and l2p. As a none thief I’ve never had a problem fighting thieves because I understand how they work and move in stealth.

Maybe anet should implement anti-heal fields or anti-stun break fields. That way all classes are affected and not just one class.

This change is worse than the RTL nerf. WTF are they doing. Past 3 patches have been fullof flop for many classes.

swinsk.6410:

I really wish anet would just tell the public to stop complaining about stealth and l2p. As a none thief I’ve never had a problem fighting thieves because I understand how they work and move in stealth.

One dev has – Rob Hrouda posted in either the Ranger or WvW forum (can’t remember which) essentially saying exactly that in response to some QQers. He’s not on the balance “team” though. I say “team” because it consists of what, 2 people? That’s the last I heard anyway, one of them maining a Mesmer and no idea about the other.

Hey guys … you know NOTHING about the traps. Calm down. The thief forums have enough overreacting as it is. Another thread on this subject isn’t doing anything.

Sebrent.3625:

Hey guys … you know NOTHING about the traps. Calm down. The thief forums have enough overreacting as it is. Another thread on this subject isn’t doing anything.

Your saying that like its only the thief forums that act like this, every other profession forum acts pretty much the same way.

Though they at least don’t get endless threads asking for them to be nerfed in all the other forums also :/ (mesmer gets one now and then but mostly asking how they work not going to the suggestion forum and suggesting they be removed outright because they won in a 1v1 fight against uplevel)

This thread was mainly talking about how such changes can potentially remove the freedom of choice aspect that anet so highly regarded in pre-release ramble.

I do agree that we really have to see what the field is like before we can jump to the conclusion that its complete death to thief, but at the same time letting it be known that its not a happy change (because regardless of how the field turns out to be at some point a thief is going to be less effective for it) gives them feedback to know what sort of things they actually need to be looking out for in its implementation.

Sebrent.3625:

Hey guys … you know NOTHING about the traps. Calm down. The thief forums have enough overreacting as it is. Another thread on this subject isn’t doing anything.

This isnt about how the traps work. Simple fact it’s called anti-stealth trap is enough to know its meant to target thieves stealthing.

Any kind of trap targeting a specific skill of only one class is a bad thing. Sure, other classes have access to stealth, but they don’t rely on it like we do.

In any kind of implementation it will cause thieves to stay away from them.

You obviously never played Daoc with prescience nodes.

No, that is not enough to know that it targets thieves. You guys are just jumping to wild conclusions as usual.

anything that targets stealth basically targets thieves…..no other class has TRUE access / reliance on it. only thieves. :P but we still have to wait . might be over reacting

I am thief and i dont use stealth in wvw, at all. Since stealthy thieves are probably the most useless class in wvw since strategic standpoint, its just solo assaulter running fighting for their ago. Kinda sick with constant whine that nerfing stealth in any way would “kill thief”.

Sebrent.3625:

No, that is not enough to know that it targets thieves. You guys are just jumping to wild conclusions as usual.

Then who else uses stealth on a regular basis? Hmmmmm?

Well if the trap is expensive but very large, it’d probably be used to counter Veil bombs.

Zacchary.6183:

Sebrent.3625:

No, that is not enough to know that it targets thieves. You guys are just jumping to wild conclusions as usual.

Then who else uses stealth on a regular basis? Hmmmmm?

Hmmm, that is obvious. Mesmers. Let’s teach thieves something…

• Decoy
• Veil
• Mass Invisibility
• The Prestige
• Desperate Decoy

But don’t worry … only thieves are affected by anything that affects stealth

Sunflowers.1729:

Well if the trap is expensive but very large, it’d probably be used to counter Veil bombs.

Exactly!
I see this as a counter to groups using Veil, Mass Invis, and maybe even Shadow Refuge to jump people with their large zerg.

Shadow Refuge, however, is the least used for this as it is limited in how many people it can stealth (Veil is not) and requires them to stand still in it which is bad since the “house” is quite visible and a great target for AOEs.

Sebrent.3625:

Zacchary.6183:

Sebrent.3625:

No, that is not enough to know that it targets thieves. You guys are just jumping to wild conclusions as usual.

Then who else uses stealth on a regular basis? Hmmmmm?

Hmmm, that is obvious. Mesmers. Let’s teach thieves something…

• Decoy
• Veil
• Mass Invisibility
• The Prestige
• Desperate Decoy

<sarcasm>
But don’t worry … only thieves are affected by anything that affects stealth
</sarcasm>

Cool story bro. Unfortunately stealth isn’t rooted in 40% of your profession. Let’s see what Thief skills and traits are affected by anti-stealth traps…

Blinding Powder
Shadow Refuge
Smoke Bomb
Surprise Shot
Tactical Strike
Backstab
Sneak Attack
The Ripper
Deadly Strike
Hide in Shadows
Vanish in the Deep
Hidden Thief
Hidden Killer
Meld with Shadows
Shadow’s Embrace
Patience
Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Fleet Shadow

While mesmers can QQ about what you listed plus:

Prismatic Understanding

<sarcasm>
Don’t worry, mesmers. I will QQ for you too.
</sarcasm>

Zacchary.6183:

Sebrent.3625:

Zacchary.6183:

Sebrent.3625:

No, that is not enough to know that it targets thieves. You guys are just jumping to wild conclusions as usual.

Then who else uses stealth on a regular basis? Hmmmmm?

Hmmm, that is obvious. Mesmers. Let’s teach thieves something…

• Decoy
• Veil
• Mass Invisibility
• The Prestige
• Desperate Decoy

<sarcasm>
But don’t worry … only thieves are affected by anything that affects stealth
</sarcasm>

Cool story bro. Unfortunately stealth isn’t rooted in 40% of your profession. Let’s see what Thief skills and traits are affected by anti-stealth traps…

Blinding Powder
Shadow Refuge
Smoke Bomb
Surprise Shot
Tactical Strike
Backstab
Sneak Attack
The Ripper
Deadly Strike
Hide in Shadows
Vanish in the Deep
Hidden Thief
Hidden Killer
Meld with Shadows
Shadow’s Embrace
Patience
Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Fleet Shadow

While mesmers can QQ about what you listed plus:

Prismatic Understanding

<sarcasm>
Don’t worry, mesmers. I will QQ for you too.
</sarcasm>

Mesmers got a 50% confusion nerf, that hit us hard as well as the stealth debuff.
We both were badly effected. I do wish they would nerf warrior HB though.

Let’s see what happens when they introduce the ‘Anti-Heal Trap’. Oh man… That day will be glorious in the history of MMORPGs…

Kyrion.2749:

Let’s see what happens when they introduce the ‘Anti-Heal Trap’. Oh man… That day will be glorious in the history of MMORPGs…

Poison reduces healing by 33%

The ULTIMATE and REAL Anti-Heal Trap…. Not some sissy condition.

4 days left and not a single official word about it….
it could be the greatest nerf in thieves’ history and we know nothing about it.

Zacchary.6183:

Sebrent.3625:

Zacchary.6183:

Sebrent.3625:

No, that is not enough to know that it targets thieves. You guys are just jumping to wild conclusions as usual.

Then who else uses stealth on a regular basis? Hmmmmm?

Hmmm, that is obvious. Mesmers. Let’s teach thieves something…

• Decoy
• Veil
• Mass Invisibility
• The Prestige
• Desperate Decoy

<sarcasm>
But don’t worry … only thieves are affected by anything that affects stealth
</sarcasm>

Cool story bro. Unfortunately stealth isn’t rooted in 40% of your profession. Let’s see what Thief skills and traits are affected by anti-stealth traps…

Blinding Powder
Shadow Refuge
Smoke Bomb
Surprise Shot
Tactical Strike
Backstab
Sneak Attack
The Ripper
Deadly Strike
Hide in Shadows
Vanish in the Deep
Hidden Thief
Hidden Killer
Meld with Shadows
Shadow’s Embrace
Patience
Shadow’s Rejuvenation
Fleet Shadow

While mesmers can QQ about what you listed plus:

Prismatic Understanding

<sarcasm>
Don’t worry, mesmers. I will QQ for you too.
</sarcasm>

Let’s look at why your list isn’t as big as you think it is.

• Surprise Shot
• Tactical Strike
• Backstab
• Sneak Attack
  You can only have 2 of these in a given build … not all 4.

• The Ripper
• Deadly Strike
  These are underwater stealth attacks. I didn’t realize we were paranoid that the traps would be in the water as well

• Shadow’s Embrace
• Hidden Thief
• Patience
• Shadow’s Rejuvenation
  All 4 of these are major traits in the Shadow Arts trait-line so you can only take 3 of them, not all 4.

• Hide in Shadows
• Fleet Shadow
• Hidden Killer
• Meld with Shadows
  To get these traits with the ones above, you have to run exactly a 0/30/30/10/0 build. Not all thieves run this build. This differs from what I showed in that there were still several trait points unallocated. It fits into several viable Mesmer builds. In fact, if you check the multiple of Mesmer builds people use, you’ll see it in multiple.

• Smoke Bomb
• Vanish in the Deep
  These are both downed abilities and both are the #3 that starts on cooldown. Mesmer’s #2 downed ability also uses stealth and since it’s a #2, it’s able to be used much more often due to not starting on cooldown.

• Blinding Powder
• Shadow Refuge
  No issues here. You have 2 utilities that give stealth … so does the Mesmer.

That doesn’t change the fact that my list is bigger than your’s.

More of my class is affected by anti-stealth traps than Mesmers. Just because we can’t use all of them doesn’t mean that it doesn’t negatively impact us. Please follow in teamkiller’s footsteps and not read my post. He failed at trolling and you will too.

FYI the straw-man tactic does not work well as a counter-argument.

swinsk.6410:

The main complaint people have about thieves in wvw is the fact we are king of roaming. People have never complained about thieves in Zerg battles.

The more anti stealth you add in this game the more you are going to force thieves to roam and avoid Zerg battles.

Anti stealth makes thieves useless in Zerg battles due to not having any other defenses.

I come from Daoc where there is plenty of anti stealth. Stealth classes are completely useless in that game in big Zerg battles due to all the anti stealth and lack of other forms of defense other than stealth. They are truly a solo/roam class.

If you go ahead with these changes you will be forcing thieves out of big Zerg battles and more into small skirmishes roaming. People will still complain about stealth just as much.

I personally do not see this as good thing for any mmo. I do not like the idea of forcing a class to play certain way. If you want to Zerg with a thief, you should be able to do so. If you want to roam, you should be able to do so.

Thieves already suck at zerging, these changes will make then completely undeservingly in Zerg fights. The only useful skill we will have is blast finishers for buff stacking.

Thieves are fine in wvw. We are the best roamer but not the best zerger by design. Most are ok with that.

I don’t like direction you are going in for wvw with thieves. After these traps go in we won’t be able to near anything that is slightly defended. We will be forced to roam the outskirts.

I won’t be able to play the game for at least 2 months so I can’t test out current changes. I am recovering from surgery.

If you want to survive in Zerg battles use your dodge. You have allot of it along with sword/dagger for evasive boon stripping attacks and condi remove retreats.

Where does all this “The traps will make us useless for zerg battles” sentiment come from? Stealth already doesn’t do anything in zerg fights, unless for some reason the entire enemy zerg hates you. Most people just throw random spells everywhere and hope it hits something, and with so many people it’s impossible to dodge everything (unlike smaller fights where Stealth can actually let you avoid things)

Go ahead, use Blinding Powder and walk into a 50 v 50 fight. See how long you survive.

Heres the issue with theif in WvW. The best chaser class is the best escape class. Has the highest mobilty and the only callss not required to giv up all range to get it. At the same time theif gets stealth which is inherently necessary for survival. The problem is when Anet designed thief they game one class in combat stealth superior mobility and the strong burst skilsl in the game. There is no real argument that when it comes ot WvW and PvP thief is OP. That being said its UP Everywhere else.

No class should be able to chase some one down fail and walk away scott free. Either mobility has to get nerfed or stealth. Something got to give. As much as I love my DP thief I cant play it because I know its OP. No one says that. Anet can’t really nerf thieves again. So what hey are doing it allowing a nerf without nerfing the class itself. Whine scream moan there is no good argument against it. Anet either need to allow other classes better catch and stun skills to fight thief or nerf stealth. I say traps are a bad idea but its about as good as they can do unless they plan to revamp other classes or nerf thief yet again.

you guys are acting like they’re gonna make these fields last for infinity.
“Oh no! Another change to make thieves useless!” then reroll, gtfo of the thief class.

These fields are prolly gonna last for 3 seconds, and have a 60s cooldown, sort of like the opposite effect of the “Ash Legion Spykit”

for you new kids, thats a Heart merchant item you can use in PvE to gain 10s of stealth no matter the class. BUT you can’t move.

Now, if these anti-stealth fields are 10s long, it won’t matter, avoid them…
10s in a fight is NOTHING lol. now if theyre 30s. Then yes, that will be a bit unfair.

Lets let these carebears that enter WvW, expecting to suck the zergs teet, have their way. When we’re still ganking these nubs we can see what else ANet decides to throw at us.

Personally, i LOVE these nerfs to thieves. It gets rid of the fairweather noobs that rolled one to gank lowbies and really bad players lol. I even say bring back to 4s debuff. lol

As for zerg battles, if you’re on the frontlines charging into heavies and bunker classes, you’re an idiot.

The thief’s roll in a zerg fight, is to hang out behind the enemy zerg and pick off the kids pulling back to regain health. It also helps with team morale to see a few green names behind the zerg. granted there never is many thieves behind enemy lines, like ever.. lol you guys are too busy Dagger Storming in the middle to see all the pretty numbers lol.

So this whole QQ’ing has a simple fix for you crybaby thieves. If you don’t like it, DONT PLAY IT.

go roll a guardian or something. something you can’t qq about kitten

i guarantee they arent 3 secs. im willing to bet 10-20 secs at at time. might need mroethan 1 person to make them or “build” them with supply. who knows. 3 secs is just not worth the time. well unless it pulsed which would be just as bad as 20 secs.

Henrik.7560:

Mesmers got a 50% confusion nerf, that hit us hard as well as the stealth debuff.
We both were badly effected. I do wish they would nerf warrior HB though.

we got shortbow nerf that makes 90% of our arrows go missing. cry me a river dood

My Mesmer may have got a Confusion nerf but she is still 100% playable and very strong in all situations, she is just a bit slow.

We also have one of the best Auto Attacks in the game now as Mesmers.

Sunflowers.1729:

Where does all this “The traps will make us useless for zerg battles” sentiment come from? Stealth already doesn’t do anything in zerg fights, unless for some reason the entire enemy zerg hates you. Most people just throw random spells everywhere and hope it hits something, and with so many people it’s impossible to dodge everything (unlike smaller fights where Stealth can actually let you avoid things)

Go ahead, use Blinding Powder and walk into a 50 v 50 fight. See how long you survive.

Actually it is possible to dodge everything on a theif and even do evasive strikes.

@ Zac: It does matter that you can’t take all of those in a build. What you’re playing is that class with a set build. If the build can only fit a set amount, the skills/traits/etc. not included don’t matter. Otherwise axe+shield/greatsword warriors should complain about sword or some other weapon/utility/trait not in their build affecting their build. Or heck, complain about shortbows and pistols since they can’t have those in their build.

@Travlane:
What are you basing those numbers on that you’re betting on?

@PearlGore:
By your logic, thieves shouldn’t gripe if stealth gets nerfed by 50% as you have other good viable builds that don’t rely on it and some skills that could be considered some of the “best”.

@Sebrent “i bet” or “might” “would” …..usually means theres nothing of hard value. but a trap that only releases stealth for 3 seconds wouldnt do much if anything at all. unless it had a cooldown of 10 seconds then it would be devastating. they are my “bets” or “beliefs” as common sense says they will make stealth traps viable and not be OP …or atleast with the intentions there of.

The point I was trying to make isn’t about which skills are affected or how many skills.

We all know any anti stealth is directed at thieves because we have entire trait lines based around it. It’s how we survive. Mesmers have clones to distract and only need thier stealth in situations. Thieves need it to active most of thier abilities.

Anti stealth is an attempt to directly single out the thief class and punish them in wvw.

That to me is a bad road to go down.

I’d he ok with anti-heal field or anti stun break field, because it affects all classes. Anti stealth affects thieves the most and barely does anything to rest of the classes that have access to stealth because stealth is not thier primary defense.

swinsk.6410:

The point I was trying to make isn’t about which skills are affected or how many skills.

We all know any anti stealth is directed at thieves because we have entire trait lines based around it. It’s how we survive. Mesmers have clones to distract and only need thier stealth in situations. Thieves need it to active most of thier abilities.

Anti stealth is an attempt to directly single out the thief class and punish them in wvw.

That to me is a bad road to go down.

I’d he ok with anti-heal field or anti stun break field, because it affects all classes. Anti stealth affects thieves the most and barely does anything to rest of the classes that have access to stealth because stealth is not thier primary defense.

(1)
As has been pointed out throughout the forums, thieves can also leverage enormous amount of evasion. Some also make good use of blinds and interrupts. Stealth is not the “only” defense nor is it the “primary” defense in all thief builds.

(2)
It can’t “directly single-out thieves” when Thieves are not the only class that makes use of stealth.

(3)
Anti-stealth has STRATEGIC qualities. As does anti-supply.

If you can prevent people from moving through a choke-point stealthed, you can make use of fortifying a position with siege that isn’t a tower/keep.

(4)
ArenaNet has never put items in the game for people to pay gold for to counter specific classes. When people were so much as using karma to gain generic advantages in WvW, they nipped that.

Sebrent.3625:

(1)
As has been pointed out throughout the forums, thieves can also leverage enormous amount of evasion. Some also make good use of blinds and interrupts. Stealth is not the “only” defense nor is it the “primary” defense in all thief builds.

how many evades we get, how much more than other classes?
just because there’s more ways of mitgating dmg than stealth and get away doesn’t mean they measure up to anywhere near the defensive contribution of stealth.

(2)
It can’t “directly single-out thieves” when Thieves are not the only class that makes use of stealth.

but thieves contribute to more stealth than all the other classes combined. This had been pointed out to YOU over and over on multiple threads.

(3)
Anti-stealth has STRATEGIC qualities. As does anti-supply.

you can say that to anything. The fact is, anti stealth targets this one class, and anti supply doesn’t.

(4)
ArenaNet has never put items in the game for people to pay gold for to counter specific classes. When people were so much as using karma to gain generic advantages in WvW, they nipped that.

they do now

so, stop trolling thief forum, leave us die in peace.

swinsk.6410:

in wvw is the fact we are (the) king(s?) of roaming.

Hmmm… My Engineer would have some words with you… but then again, so would a lot of people. I would not call thieves the kings of effective roaming, it’s hard for you guys to take 3 solid hits, not to mention that stealth means you can’t hold a point. If you are talking pwning n00bs, well lots of people can do that, and I would certainly not call thieves the best.

@welswift. ok ill bite :P……it is hard for us to take 3 good hits…..thats why we r griping about traps that target thieves…… what are the areas of comparison that we are talking about that would make a class generically the king of roaming? I.E. Damage/Mobility/Healing/Escaping/1vX’ing. make a list of areas then rate each class you put in the top 2 or top 3 a 1 to 10 score (10 being highest and 1 being crap) . see how it turns out. try be as unbiased as possible. remember you cant take the best of all builds.(i.e. thieves cant have super high damage and super high hp….balance there of etc)

Sebrent.3625:

@ Zac: It does matter that you can’t take all of those in a build. What you’re playing is that class with a set build. If the build can only fit a set amount, the skills/traits/etc. not included don’t matter.

So every other build doesn’t matter? Think about what you are saying and then think about the original topic, which was…

Sebrent.3625:

No, that is not enough to know that it targets thieves. You guys are just jumping to wild conclusions as usual.

So I then asked you a simple question….

Zacchary.6183:

Then who else uses stealth on a regular basis? Hmmmmm?

…which you replied with a weak list to prove your point.

Sebrent.3625:

Hmmm, that is obvious. Mesmers. Let’s teach thieves something…

• Decoy
• Veil
• Mass Invisibility
• The Prestige
• Desperate Decoy

<sarcasm>
But don’t worry … only thieves are affected by anything that affects stealth
</sarcasm>

The problem with your list is that Mesmer can’t apply the stealth to any of their skills as a means of skill buffing and nothing can be applied to a Mesmer while in stealth unless you have Prismatic Understanding. The purpose of your skills is mainly to apply stealth. In fact, most of those skills are meant for groups, so there is barely any Stealth reliance to any Mesmer build. Mesmers really don’t have that much to complain about vs. anti-stealth traps.

But you still wanted to use straw-man tactics while missing the the whole point of the argument (both informal fallacies):

Sebrent.3625:

Let’s look at why your list isn’t as big as you think it is.

• Surprise Shot
• Tactical Strike
• Backstab
• Sneak Attack
  You can only have 2 of these in a given build … not all 4.

• The Ripper
• Deadly Strike
  These are underwater stealth attacks. I didn’t realize we were paranoid that the traps would be in the water as well

• Shadow’s Embrace
• Hidden Thief
• Patience
• Shadow’s Rejuvenation
  All 4 of these are major traits in the Shadow Arts trait-line so you can only take 3 of them, not all 4.

• Hide in Shadows
• Fleet Shadow
• Hidden Killer
• Meld with Shadows
  To get these traits with the ones above, you have to run exactly a 0/30/30/10/0 build. Not all thieves run this build. This differs from what I showed in that there were still several trait points unallocated. It fits into several viable Mesmer builds. In fact, if you check the multiple of Mesmer builds people use, you’ll see it in multiple.

• Smoke Bomb
• Vanish in the Deep
  These are both downed abilities and both are the #3 that starts on cooldown. Mesmer’s #2 downed ability also uses stealth and since it’s a #2, it’s able to be used much more often due to not starting on cooldown.

• Blinding Powder
• Shadow Refuge
  No issues here. You have 2 utilities that give stealth … so does the Mesmer.

If you look at the Related Skills and Related Traits on this wiki, you will see a very clear difference between usage within a class. Mesmers come in second by a longshot. Engies and hunters have 1 skill that stealths, 2 if they are a Norn with Become the Leopard.

Fact is, Mesmers have almost no reliance to stealth. In the shadow of anti-stealth traps, Mesmers have nothing to cry about.