Guild Wars 2

Considering that these two traitlines are the weakest thief traitlines (Acrobatics being weaker) here are some suggestions for them. I don’t expect them to be put in, but on the chance that a dev reads this, please consider them. If anyone has other suggestions post them here.

Acrobatics: Since Daredevil does the same thing but better, we should probably try and switch up its role a bit, however still staying mainly a defensive traitline. I think it’d be interesting if it had more boon-related traits, and gave a little support while still staying true to what a thief is.

Pain Response- Replace regen with resistance.

Fleet Shadow- Gain superspeed for 3 seconds whenever you apply vigor or stealth (X second ICD, maybe around the 7-8 range? It needs to compete with the other traits.

Vigorous recovery stays as is.

Guarded Initiation- Replace with Guarded thievery; Stealing grants you and nearby allies 5 seconds of resistance. Gives team support and self-sustainability that thieves need. This could also be “Stealing a boon gives you and nearby allies resistance for 3 seconds” on a 15(?) second ICD. This version would give less reliance on steal and more general sustainability.

Swindler’s Equilibrium- Imo it would be better to have something that benefits thieves in general, not just sword. This could be something like “Whenever you evade an attack your next attack transfers a condition and steals a boon (10-15 second ICD?) After dodging (Dodge roll), gain 1 stack of stability for 3 seconds.” This trait needs to compete with hard to catch, which is why I suggested giving the stability that thieves need in addition to the condi transfer.

Hard to catch stays as is.

Upper hand- “All abilities that steal boons steal an additional boon. Whenever you steal boons, share them with allies and gain protection for 2 seconds.” Gives team support and some sustain.

Assassin’s Reward- Roll the current upper hand to it. Keep current functionality and increase base healing by a good amount to keep it on par with the other gm’s. (At LEAST 120.)

Don’t Stop- Keep as is.

Now the minors.

Expeditious dodger- stays as is.

Feline Grace- Keep as is. I’ll explain why in a second.

Endless stamina- Keep current functionality with an added bonus. Applying vigor to yourself grants 10 endurance. Whenever you apply vigor to yourself, remove a condition (this part has a 2 second ICD or maybe no ICD, not sure yet) Basically this trait brings back most of the previous feline grace with new bonuses and sustain.

With these changes Acro could focus on 3 things of your choice: Boon steal and uptime, Vigor and sustain, or Mobility. Now onto Critical Strikes.

Majors first.

Side strikes- Increase the critical hit chance to 10%. Add "gain1 stack of might for 5 when attacking a foe from a flanking position(1 second ICD)

Signets of Power- Increase might to 12 seconds. This is a bursty trait and I think it should be given a little more time to do your work.

Flawless Strike- Deal 15% more damage while your health is above 90%. The payoff needs to be good for a thief to stay above 90% health. Also good for bursting down targets when coming into a fight.

Sundering Strikes- Add "When attacking a vulnerable foe, gain a stacking 2% damage increase for 5 seconds. Max 5 stacks.

Practiced Tolerance- Revert back to gain vitality based on precision.

Ankle Shots- Pistol shots apply 4 seconds of cripple(9 second ICD). Deal 10% more damage when you are more than 360 units away. A direct and indirect buff to pistols. I didn’t add in ricochet or increase range because I just think those things should be baseline for pistols.

No quarter- Leave as is.

Invigorating Precision- Leave as is.

Hidden Killer- Same functionality. Add “Stealth attacks steal a boon and deal 10% more damage.”

Now for the minors.

Keen observer- Make the threshold 75% health. (Maybe make it 7% crit chance too?)

Unrelenting Strikes- Keep as is

Ferocious Strikes- Add "Critical hits grant you vigor for 3 seconds. (10 second icd)

Well that’s all I have for now, add more suggestions if you’d like.

My opinions personally :

Fleet Shadow- iffy. I honestly think it just needs to be replaced and Thief gets that special little “I can do Stealth better than you can” kinda thing.

I have very little on Acrobatics, its not my line style. I think you did well minus FS which just needs replacing or movement.

You missed Side Strike; its a critical supplement for medium to medium-high crit builds to make them medium-high and high in crit chance.

Signets of Power just needs to do something else.

I like your Flawless.

Sundering should be stack vuln/might on hit. Personal opinion. I mean the same trait it is now except might as well. It’d make it a choice.

Practiced Tolerance is no. Just NO. Do not touch my damage trait, I do not want to lose 21% of my crit magnitude bro.

Ankle Shots should have no trouble with cripple- Longbow on Dragonhunter has cripple on auto WITH a bounce. No need for an icd on trait with that, nor a question about ricochet anymore let alone range. I mean come on… Just a thought =P

Hidden Killer is literally just for backstab. I’d say roll backstab to 100% crit chance and make a new trait, but your thingie works too… I’d never ever pick it, but I guess?

I’d like to see less emphasis on get em below 50% and more on critical strikes and front loaded burst, but that’d take another full rework of this line.

Otherwise nice job, mostly agree. Now if only Preparedness was baseline so I could take Crit Strikes line instead of Trickery :c Anet plz.

Yeah these were just my ideas. Thanks for posting, I want to get a lot more. I don’t really use critical strikes much so my ideas might be a little off from people who do use it.

Rather than typing another wall o’ text, I’d just broadly suggest that Acrobatics is a nice all-round thing to have, and I enjoyed it a lot (with CS and Trck, as a gunslinger).

But, the DPS loss from slotting it (losing DA) is very severe… which wouldn’t be such a problem if Acr was just a bit better; so that it was enough of a survivability and mobility buff on its own (a ‘one stop shop’ line) that it then allowed to us to go max DPS with everything else.

I found that I still needed to top its survivability/mobility effects up with so much other stuff (at further DPS cost), that I was better off just using that other stuff, which it turned out I still needed anyway, and switching Acr back to DA.

It just needs to be all-round a bit better; keep it pretty much as is but make all the numbers higher.

I like CS as is, though there are some hard, hard choices in there! Flawless Strike vs Side Strike; Practiced Tolerance vs Sundering Strikes (when Exposed Weakness is slotted); and Invigorating Precision vs No Quarter. Too much good stuff in that line, when there are other lines that you need to take for just one or two things, and I’m really not fussed about a few of the other choices, including the GM… hello Trickery!

I guess that’s my only complaint about CS: it’s too densely packed compared to some other lines… maybe throw some of the CS choices into some other, weaker lines, for balance?

Sling Invigorating Precision into Acro and Practiced Tolerance into Trickery?

AsurasRCute.4136:

Rather than typing another wall o’ text, I’d just broadly suggest that Acrobatics is a nice all-round thing to have, and I enjoyed it a lot (with CS and Trck, as a gunslinger).

But, the DPS loss from slotting it (losing DA) is very severe… which wouldn’t be such a problem if Acr was just a bit better; so that it was enough of a survivability and mobility buff on its own (a ‘one stop shop’ line) that it then allowed to us to go max DPS with everything else.

I found that I still needed to top its survivability/mobility effects up with so much other stuff (at further DPS cost), that I was better off just using that other stuff, which it turned out I still needed anyway, and switching Acr back to DA.

It just needs to be all-round a bit better; keep it pretty much as is but make all the numbers higher.

That’s the thing, though. The devs think that Acro can perform well with basically just vigor. Simply increasing the numbers wouldn’t do enough to help out sustain, which is why it needs more things added.

There is also the problem of thief not having much presence in a teamfight, which is why I suggested more boon stealing capabilities and boon sharing.

Also, as you said, you lose lots of DPS without slotting DA. This is just an innate thief problem of having all of the good stuff in one line (trickery; it’s mandatory) When it needs to be more spread out for build diversity.

For example, if preparedness was made baseline, and bountiful theft stole 1 boon (but actually stole the full amount) and put the other stolen boon into baseline, that alone would increase diversity by a lot, opening up options like Acro/Deadly/DD. Base damage on weapon skills (backstab especially) also needs increased. It just doesn’t match up to all the new skills any more. Current thief in old meta would be op, but now it needs some help. Not to say it’s bad, it’s definitely doable with the right amount of practice, but it still needs more.

SEEEEEE! PREPAREDNESS BASELINE IS IMPORTANT.

/capslockandforgot

Serious Thought.5394:

SEEEEEE! PREPAREDNESS BASELINE IS IMPORTANT.

/capslockandforgot

Yes I do agree that it should be, along with base steal stealing at least 1 boon.

I’d say sleight of hand over that. I mean if someone comes and steals from you, wouldn’t you be a little confused like “wtf. where did you come from?”

Serious Thought.5394:

I’d say sleight of hand over that. I mean if someone comes and steals from you, wouldn’t you be a little confused like “wtf. where did you come from?”

Yeah that’s true. I wouldn’t mind that either, but they’d have to replace the trait with something else.

alchemyst.2165:

AsurasRCute.4136:

Rather than typing another wall o’ text, I’d just broadly suggest that Acrobatics is a nice all-round thing to have, and I enjoyed it a lot (with CS and Trck, as a gunslinger).

But, the DPS loss from slotting it (losing DA) is very severe… which wouldn’t be such a problem if Acr was just a bit better; so that it was enough of a survivability and mobility buff on its own (a ‘one stop shop’ line) that it then allowed to us to go max DPS with everything else.

I found that I still needed to top its survivability/mobility effects up with so much other stuff (at further DPS cost), that I was better off just using that other stuff, which it turned out I still needed anyway, and switching Acr back to DA.

It just needs to be all-round a bit better; keep it pretty much as is but make all the numbers higher.

That’s the thing, though. The devs think that Acro can perform well with basically just vigor. Simply increasing the numbers wouldn’t do enough to help out sustain, which is why it needs more things added.

There is also the problem of thief not having much presence in a teamfight, which is why I suggested more boon stealing capabilities and boon sharing.

Also, as you said, you lose lots of DPS without slotting DA. This is just an innate thief problem of having all of the good stuff in one line (trickery; it’s mandatory) When it needs to be more spread out for build diversity.

For example, if preparedness was made baseline, and bountiful theft stole 1 boon (but actually stole the full amount) and put the other stolen boon into baseline, that alone would increase diversity by a lot, opening up options like Acro/Deadly/DD. Base damage on weapon skills (backstab especially) also needs increased. It just doesn’t match up to all the new skills any more. Current thief in old meta would be op, but now it needs some help. Not to say it’s bad, it’s definitely doable with the right amount of practice, but it still needs more.

After reading this thread yesterday, I messed around with my build for experimentation purposes (solo/event PvE gunslinger, mostly in Silverwastes).

This time, I kept CS and DA, and switched Trickery out for Acro… gasp! The healing from Acro allowed me to switch IP to NQ (RFI gave me emergency initiative when I needed it), and my damage output definitely went up. Enough that it offset losing the Preparedness bonus initiative. Targets that would normally require two Unloads could be dropped with a single Unload and a couple of Vital Shots.

The single, major build bottleneck for me is movement speed, which a gunslinger needs (and should characterfully/archetypally have), and there being so few options to get some (precious Utility slot or precious Runes); each having an extremely high opportunity cost, where you really do notice the loss of what it’s replacing.

The brief, on dodge, Swiftness buff from Acro just doesn’t replace an always on 25% movement speed buff. For me personally, the main thing that would ‘fix Thief’ would be a baseline movement speed buff. If that was ~15%, and Acro’s Expeditious Dodger switched the Swiftness buff to being an always on further 10%, I’d be all over Acro like a cheap suit!

Or if Thief didn’t get a baseline speed buff but Acro had a trait in there that gave the usual, always on +25% movement speed buff (like Warriors get but without the weapon restriction), that would also make it a winner for me personally.

Sure, bonus points would go to Anet for making Preparedness baseline, but I’d sooner have the speed.