Guild Wars 2

I’ve played 3 other characters and grasped their concept pretty well but I seem to be having trouble with thief. What weapons are best for leveling and pve? And are there any rotations that kill stuff quickly or are important to learn?

try sword/pistol, using black powder you can be basically invincible to everything except champs, for offhand use either shortbow (for extra aoe/range — not needed) or dagger/x (for faster movement with heartseeker spam)

for a newbie, try a warrior or a guardian
thiefs are only for wvw 1vs1 trolling

I’ve already rolled warrior and found it pretty boring. Always spamming the same skills. I would main ele if they didnt suck atm

Clumsy.6257:

try sword/pistol, using black powder you can be basically invincible to everything except champs, for offhand use either shortbow (for extra aoe/range — not needed) or dagger/x (for faster movement with heartseeker spam)

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

Some people have success with dagger/dagger bleeds (#3) when combined with caltrops and a shortbow. Personally I can’t stand conditions on my thief and would recommend sword pistol as someone else did. Pick up smokescreen as well, it’s absolutely awesome for pve.

@clumsy: I think DanH does play thief but enjoys light hearted trolling regurgitating the mis-characterizations of the thief by other classes.

Maugetarr.6823:

Some people have success with dagger/dagger bleeds (#3) when combined with caltrops and a shortbow. Personally I can’t stand conditions on my thief and would recommend sword pistol as someone else did. Pick up smokescreen as well, it’s absolutely awesome for pve.

@clumsy: I think DanH does play thief but enjoys light hearted trolling regurgitating the mis-characterizations of the thief by other classes.

Yeah blinds from pistol are pretty cool, until a majority of bosses and trash cant be blinded. Oh wait, thats how it is now -.-

Oh and aegis is just a better blind.

rjnemer.7816:

Maugetarr.6823:

Some people have success with dagger/dagger bleeds (#3) when combined with caltrops and a shortbow. Personally I can’t stand conditions on my thief and would recommend sword pistol as someone else did. Pick up smokescreen as well, it’s absolutely awesome for pve.

@clumsy: I think DanH does play thief but enjoys light hearted trolling regurgitating the mis-characterizations of the thief by other classes.

Yeah blinds from pistol are pretty cool, until a majority of bosses and trash cant be blinded. Oh wait, thats how it is now -.-

Oh and aegis is just a better blind.

Well, its decent until you get to something like the dredge fractal at least. Right now I’m running 0/30/20/20/0 for decent blinding and evades in dungeons.

Oh and I forgot OP: as soon as you can I would recommend 15 in acro and vigorous recovery (acro III) + withdraw. You need to dodge the big attacks from bosses as a thief and those traits will keep your endurance bar relatively full.

best advice you’re gonna get is to reroll warrior or guardian. there is no future to thief.

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

in case you havent noticed its uncommon for record speedclears not to have a thief

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

in case you havent noticed its uncommon for record speedclears not to have a thief

Only to make sure there are no kitten ups running trash.

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

Except most speed clearing groups have thieves. Lmao…

Thief stealth utility in dungeons is… near vital to most Arah speed runs, is vital in 40% of fractals… That’s not enough talking from a damage standpoint, but just a utility standpoint (if I let you skip 3 pulls of mobs, you’d better kitten ed well count it as me killing those mobs…)

liefbread.9513:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

Except most speed clearing groups have thieves. Lmao…

Thief stealth utility in dungeons is… near vital to most Arah speed runs, is vital in 40% of fractals… That’s not enough talking from a damage standpoint, but just a utility standpoint (if I let you skip 3 pulls of mobs, you’d better kitten ed well count it as me killing those mobs…)

Which is what bugs me the most about this patch as they halved the boon stripping utility that we can bring to parts like the dredge fractal. You can still use thieves to skip the door bombing, but there are parts that you have to fight in that fractal, and we excelled at removing things like protection and regen from the boss which is far better than just bringing damage. Thats a 50% increase in damage from the entire party which far outweighs the pure DPS of a zerker thief.

Maugetarr.6823:

liefbread.9513:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

Except most speed clearing groups have thieves. Lmao…

Thief stealth utility in dungeons is… near vital to most Arah speed runs, is vital in 40% of fractals… That’s not enough talking from a damage standpoint, but just a utility standpoint (if I let you skip 3 pulls of mobs, you’d better kitten ed well count it as me killing those mobs…)

Which is what bugs me the most about this patch as they halved the boon stripping utility that we can bring to parts like the dredge fractal. You can still use thieves to skip the door bombing, but there are parts that you have to fight in that fractal, and we excelled at removing things like protection and regen from the boss which is far better than just bringing damage. Thats a 50% increase in damage from the entire party which far outweighs the pure DPS of a zerker thief.

now lets be honest here, if a thief was doing the boon stripping you dont exactly have an optimal party setup, and 50%? more like 35%

My advice would be save yourself the trouble and roll a warrior just joking. Go on youtube check out differert styles, weap sets and thief build also try weps and see what you like. Honestly play with the weapon set you enjoy a good thief can make anything work.

Clumsy.6257:

Maugetarr.6823:

liefbread.9513:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

Except most speed clearing groups have thieves. Lmao…

Thief stealth utility in dungeons is… near vital to most Arah speed runs, is vital in 40% of fractals… That’s not enough talking from a damage standpoint, but just a utility standpoint (if I let you skip 3 pulls of mobs, you’d better kitten ed well count it as me killing those mobs…)

Which is what bugs me the most about this patch as they halved the boon stripping utility that we can bring to parts like the dredge fractal. You can still use thieves to skip the door bombing, but there are parts that you have to fight in that fractal, and we excelled at removing things like protection and regen from the boss which is far better than just bringing damage. Thats a 50% increase in damage from the entire party which far outweighs the pure DPS of a zerker thief.

now lets be honest here, if a thief was doing the boon stripping you dont exactly have an optimal party setup, and 50%? more like 35%

Mathematically speaking:

normal damage*0.66=reduced damage

> reduced damage* (1/0.66)=normal damage

>1/.66 = 1.5, or a 50% increase over the reduced damage.

If you have a condition heavy party, maybe it won’t be quite that much of an increase, but thats why protection is so powerful in this game because its effectively a 50% increase to your base armor.

Maugetarr.6823:

Clumsy.6257:

Maugetarr.6823:

liefbread.9513:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

Except most speed clearing groups have thieves. Lmao…

Thief stealth utility in dungeons is… near vital to most Arah speed runs, is vital in 40% of fractals… That’s not enough talking from a damage standpoint, but just a utility standpoint (if I let you skip 3 pulls of mobs, you’d better kitten ed well count it as me killing those mobs…)

Which is what bugs me the most about this patch as they halved the boon stripping utility that we can bring to parts like the dredge fractal. You can still use thieves to skip the door bombing, but there are parts that you have to fight in that fractal, and we excelled at removing things like protection and regen from the boss which is far better than just bringing damage. Thats a 50% increase in damage from the entire party which far outweighs the pure DPS of a zerker thief.

now lets be honest here, if a thief was doing the boon stripping you dont exactly have an optimal party setup, and 50%? more like 35%

Mathematically speaking:

normal damage*0.66=reduced damage

> reduced damage* (1/0.66)=normal damage

>1/.66 = 1.5, or a 50% increase over the reduced damage.

If you have a condition heavy party, maybe it won’t be quite that much of an increase, but thats why protection is so powerful in this game because its effectively a 50% increase to your base armor.

your math is so bad its not even funny, protection is a base flat 33% reduction so multiply damage * 2/3 = x and thats all you need to do, how in the world did you get 50%

Clumsy.6257:

Maugetarr.6823:

Clumsy.6257:

Maugetarr.6823:

liefbread.9513:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

Except most speed clearing groups have thieves. Lmao…

Thief stealth utility in dungeons is… near vital to most Arah speed runs, is vital in 40% of fractals… That’s not enough talking from a damage standpoint, but just a utility standpoint (if I let you skip 3 pulls of mobs, you’d better kitten ed well count it as me killing those mobs…)

Which is what bugs me the most about this patch as they halved the boon stripping utility that we can bring to parts like the dredge fractal. You can still use thieves to skip the door bombing, but there are parts that you have to fight in that fractal, and we excelled at removing things like protection and regen from the boss which is far better than just bringing damage. Thats a 50% increase in damage from the entire party which far outweighs the pure DPS of a zerker thief.

now lets be honest here, if a thief was doing the boon stripping you dont exactly have an optimal party setup, and 50%? more like 35%

Mathematically speaking:

normal damage*0.66=reduced damage

> reduced damage* (1/0.66)=normal damage

>1/.66 = 1.5, or a 50% increase over the reduced damage.

If you have a condition heavy party, maybe it won’t be quite that much of an increase, but thats why protection is so powerful in this game because its effectively a 50% increase to your base armor.

your math is so bad its not even funny, protection is base 33% reduction so multiply damage * 2/3 = x and thats all you need to do, how in the world did you get 50%

….let me try to be more clear at how I arrived here using numbers because recipricals and variables seem too complicated.

lets say damage = 1
1*(2/3)=2/3

Now 2/3 is the damage you are effectively doing

A 33% increase in damage or rather 4/3 wont bring you back up to your original damage value.

(4/3)*(2/3)=8/9

an increase of 50% (1.5 which is equal to 3/2) is required to bring that number back up to the original value.

(2/3)*(3/2)=6/6=1

So if a boss has protection up the entire fight your damage output is basically 2/3 of what it could be. Removing that protection would be a 50% increase in the damage over the length of the battle.

Maugetarr.6823:

Clumsy.6257:

Maugetarr.6823:

Clumsy.6257:

Maugetarr.6823:

liefbread.9513:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

rjnemer.7816:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

I definitely agree with danh. I mained a thief for the first 6 months and i can tell you for fact that he is right. We are definitely not 2nd in dps. Thieves are maybe 3rd at best, more like 4th since being so dam squishy makes it extremely difficult to stay up 100% of the time (and when your dodging you loose out on dps as well).

Not only do we suck in pve we suck in wvw. If you were to put two equally skilled people up against each other with one as a thief and one as anything else, the other class will win 95% of the time (or the thief will just perma stealth troll and never die, but also not get anywhere near killing the other class).

Edit: I gave up on my thief for the time being. Back in march i rolled a guardian and havent looked back. They are 1000x more useful and have better dps. Also, i just rolled a warrior and geared her out a little over 2 weeks ago. Pretty sure running a lvl 5 warrior for the banner is better then a thief -.-

wow you must have sucked as thief, i can easily double my warriors damage with full zerkers, meta builds, scholars, same nourishment, same might+vuln, and if ele didnt have fgs, we’d be almost tied for #1

LOL, there is a reason speed clearing groups dont run thieves. They dont bring anything to the group that another class can do better. A wall from a guardian alone can out dps a thief in full berserkers.

Edit: They dont have any cleave with d/d as well.

Except most speed clearing groups have thieves. Lmao…

Thief stealth utility in dungeons is… near vital to most Arah speed runs, is vital in 40% of fractals… That’s not enough talking from a damage standpoint, but just a utility standpoint (if I let you skip 3 pulls of mobs, you’d better kitten ed well count it as me killing those mobs…)

Which is what bugs me the most about this patch as they halved the boon stripping utility that we can bring to parts like the dredge fractal. You can still use thieves to skip the door bombing, but there are parts that you have to fight in that fractal, and we excelled at removing things like protection and regen from the boss which is far better than just bringing damage. Thats a 50% increase in damage from the entire party which far outweighs the pure DPS of a zerker thief.

now lets be honest here, if a thief was doing the boon stripping you dont exactly have an optimal party setup, and 50%? more like 35%

Mathematically speaking:

normal damage*0.66=reduced damage

> reduced damage* (1/0.66)=normal damage

>1/.66 = 1.5, or a 50% increase over the reduced damage.

If you have a condition heavy party, maybe it won’t be quite that much of an increase, but thats why protection is so powerful in this game because its effectively a 50% increase to your base armor.

your math is so bad its not even funny, protection is base 33% reduction so multiply damage * 2/3 = x and thats all you need to do, how in the world did you get 50%

….let me try to be more clear at how I arrived here using numbers because recipricals and variables seem too complicated.

lets say damage = 1
1*(2/3)=2/3

Now 2/3 is the damage you are effectively doing

A 33% increase in damage or rather 4/3 wont bring you back up to your original damage value.

(4/3)*(2/3)=8/9

an increase of 50% (1.5 which is equal to 3/2) is required to bring that number back up to the original value.

(2/3)*(3/2)=6/6=1

So if a boss has protection up the entire fight your damage output is basically 2/3 of what it could be. Removing that protection would be a 50% increase in the damage over the length of the battle.

except it wouldnt… it would be a 33% increase, as soon as protection drops your damage goes back to 1, while protections up its 2/3 so you would be doing 33% more if the boss didnt have protection.
edit: now i see where your going with this, although its still wrong.
Base damage = 1
protection = -33%
Base damage – protection = 2/3
Assuming the boss has protection the entire fight and all members of your party are using physical damage, your party dealt 66% of the damage possible. When protection drops, your damage is raised by 33% back up to the original 1.

putting this in a new post since i cant edit for some reason

your thinking that your going from 2/3 to 1, which is more than 33% increase if you start with 2/3, but we started with 1, so 1 – 1/3 + 1/3 = 1

Clumsy.6257:

Maugetarr.6823:

….let me try to be more clear at how I arrived here using numbers because recipricals and variables seem too complicated.

lets say damage = 1
1*(2/3)=2/3

Now 2/3 is the damage you are effectively doing

A 33% increase in damage or rather 4/3 wont bring you back up to your original damage value.

(4/3)*(2/3)=8/9

an increase of 50% (1.5 which is equal to 3/2) is required to bring that number back up to the original value.

(2/3)*(3/2)=6/6=1

So if a boss has protection up the entire fight your damage output is basically 2/3 of what it could be. Removing that protection would be a 50% increase in the damage over the length of the battle.

except it wouldnt… it would be a 33% increase, as soon as protection drops your damage goes back to 1, while protections up its 2/3 so you would be doing 33% more if the boss didnt have protection.
edit: now i see where your going with this, although its still wrong.
Base damage = 1
protection = -33%
Base damage – protection = 2/3
Assuming the boss has protection the entire fight and all members of your party are using physical damage, your party dealt 66% of the damage possible. When protection drops, your damage is raised by 33% back up to the original 1.

This is where were getting lost:

It is a 50% increase over the reduced damage which would be your base damage if you let the boss keep up protection the entire fight.

damage=x
x*protection = y
y*1.33 does not equal x
y*1.5=x

y is the damage your group is doing with protection up. Without protection your group could do x damage. To get cy=x, y needs to be 1.5

The problem is that you’re approaching this from the wrong sid. y is going to be your base damage if you don’t remove protection.

I’ll state this another way

cy=x

if c=1.5 then 1.5y=x

moving c to the other side of the equation

cy/c=x/c

y=x/c or rather y=x/1.5 which becomes y=x*(1/1.5) which is y=x*0.66666

This disagreement is more about semantics. If a boss doesn’t have protection and then puts it up, he has reduced your damage output by 33%. This reduced damage is now your new output. If you remove protection, you are now doing 50% more damage than what your new output was. This is equal to your original output.

Clumsy.6257:

putting this in a new post since i cant edit for some reason

your thinking that your going from 2/3 to 1, which is more than 33% increase if you start with 2/3, but we started with 1, so 1 – 1/3 + 1/3 = 1

This is where we’re running into the issue. If you don’t remove protection, the reduced damage is your base damage. If you could then remove protection, you’ll be doing 50% more than what you were doing before that instant.

This is the same issue that we’ve run into with how ANet has phrased the thief steal recharge rate (why it’s not half if you trait into sleight of hand).

recharge rate=35/1.3-.2(35/1.3)=21.5 ish
but it doesn’t equal 35 *(1-0.3-0.2)=17.5
The difference is in the problem statement.

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

kitten , i can swear i have my thief created since game pre-release
maybe you are right and my memory fails me…
it is hard to master the thief? Yes
newbie guardian/warrior etc. is much much MUCH better to a party than a newbie thief (that dies most of the time or stays in stealth), at least they have party support like 24/7 banner, group condition cleanse and/or buffs, aoe heals (large radius) via shouts with just 1 trait etc.
dungeon bosses/champions/elites will laugh at your black powder =))

DanH.5879:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

kitten , i can swear i have my thief created since game pre-release
maybe you are right and my memory fails me…
it is hard to master the thief? Yes
newbie guardian/warrior etc. is much much MUCH better to a party than a newbie thief (that dies most of the time or stays in stealth), at least they have party support like 24/7 banner, group condition cleanse and/or buffs, aoe heals (large radius) via shouts with just 1 trait etc.
dungeon bosses/champions/elites will laugh at your black powder =))

As a newbie warrior player and an experienced thief player, I can vouch for this.

Zacchary.6183:

DanH.5879:

Clumsy.6257:

dont listen to danh he doesnt actually play a thief, currently were #2 best dps and have a plentiful supply of support abilities, our only downside is we take squishy to the next level

edit: what moron told you eles suck? theyre #1 dps ingame with the best might stacking abilities, not to mention FGS which that skill alone is worth using a party slot on

kitten , i can swear i have my thief created since game pre-release
maybe you are right and my memory fails me…
it is hard to master the thief? Yes
newbie guardian/warrior etc. is much much MUCH better to a party than a newbie thief (that dies most of the time or stays in stealth), at least they have party support like 24/7 banner, group condition cleanse and/or buffs, aoe heals (large radius) via shouts with just 1 trait etc.
dungeon bosses/champions/elites will laugh at your black powder =))

As a newbie warrior player and an experienced thief player, I can vouch for this.

unfortunately this is true, the only upside to a thief is its basically needed in all speedclears for skips, much higher dps than warrior, and mastering a thief teaches you to dodge perfectly (if you dont you’ll be eating dirt for 90% of the time)

Keybind your “2” skill to your mouse.

^ The BH is strong in this one.

The math in this topic made me smile and yeah I’ve been forced at this point to run sigil of nullification for the most part. We could have the mesmer doing the boon stripping I suppose, but the cleave damage + the boon stripping and constant “good” positioning ends up working out better than me just running d/d and slamming the mobs down as fast as I can.