Guild Wars 2

13878 damage on my level 80 thief.

Sure, 2434 armor isn’t very high, and 16901 HP isn’t very high, but it actually took off over 80% of my life (and down me in one shot because I was slightly injured). The so called thief burst is CnD/mug/backstab (3 hits that allows users to stun break in time.), but this just takes the cake. Can we have some fix please, Anet?

Or maybe it’s time to switch to my lvl 80 warrior and cheese.

Kill shot has a very long charge. It’s not that hard to dodge it or get close for a daze (easy to do with a S/D or S/P build).

please don’t mention that warriors are OP, you might get banned !
and yes, the kill shot needs to kill you to keep it’s name

Bad luck, isn’t thieves multiple castable backstab as powerful?
Stealth backstab every 3 seconds they can do that…
GC thieves kill anything with
Steal, stealth, backstab, C&D, Hskr Hskr Hskr.

Henrik.7560:

Bad luck, isn’t thieves multiple castable backstab as powerful?
Stealth backstab every 3 seconds they can do that…
GC thieves kill anything with
Steal, stealth, backstab, C&D, Hskr Hskr Hskr.

The OP meant that once the shot connect (Kill shot compared to our C&D as opening strike), you’ll have time to react against a thief but not against the shot. (We’re assuming right now that you didn’t even notice the person was after you ..)

kill shot:

- 2s cast time of obvious animation of a guy crouching and pointing his gun at you
- not 100% crit chance
- 10s cooldown
- requires full adrenaline (build in combat)

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement
- 100% crit chance
- no cooldown
- no initiative cost

xiv.7136:

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement
- 100% crit chance
- no cooldown
- no initiative cost

While I agree with your brief analysis of killshot, I completely disagree with you about backstab, and here’s why…

• Thieves can’t stealth for more than 4 seconds (traited) unless using Shadow Refuge, so a Thief is almost always visible before using stealth to prepare for a backstab.
• Backstab itself does not have 100% crit chance at all unless traited, and 99% of the time a Thief will take Executioner over Hidden Killer since their crit chance is already over 50-60%.
• The cooldown on Backstab is actually 3 seconds thanks to the revealed debuff and as long as it takes to get into stealth again via Cloak and Dagger or a utility. Cloak and Dagger uses 6 initiative (4 if traited) which regenerates at a rate of 1 per second (unless traited/using the correct utility) so each CnD uses 6 seconds (untraited) of initiative. Furthermore, if the Thief uses a utility to stealth then they have a minimum of a 40 second cooldown (Blinding Powder) before they can stealth again, slightly less if traited.
• The skill itself doesn’t have an initiative cost, but see above for the cost of Cloak and Dagger.

Try not to spread misinformation on the forums, there’s enough of that going around already.

Thanks.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Kill shot has a very long charge. It’s not that hard to dodge it or get close for a daze (easy to do with a S/D or S/P build).

and kill shot also requires a great amount of skill. you have to press 1 button.

The problem with these arguements against thieves and damage is everyone tailors the arguments to fit them.

Its always

1v1 fight scenario

1v2 fight scenarior etc

then you bring up killshot and everyone says its easy to dodge yea against someone telegraphing it just like any other skill like that. Churning earth is easy to dodge but people still get hit by it cause a good player waits for you to burn your dodges and escapes because they understand the class they are fighting then they attempt killshot or churning earth.

Lets see when is the best time to to use my strongest attack? Hmmmm before they use their endurance up or after? Decisions Decisions!!

Most good warriors will pepper you with volley then wait for when they think you will stealth by heal or refuge cast killshot since its channeled it will follow.

Incurafy.6329:

xiv.7136:

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement
- 100% crit chance
- no cooldown
- no initiative cost

While I agree with your brief analysis of killshot, I completely disagree with you about backstab, and here’s why…

• Thieves can’t stealth for more than 4 seconds (traited) unless using Shadow Refuge, so a Thief is almost always visible before using stealth to prepare for a backstab.
• Backstab itself does not have 100% crit chance at all unless traited, and 99% of the time a Thief will take Executioner over Hidden Killer since their crit chance is already over 50-60%.
• The cooldown on Backstab is actually 3 seconds thanks to the revealed debuff and as long as it takes to get into stealth again via Cloak and Dagger or a utility. Cloak and Dagger uses 6 initiative (4 if traited) which regenerates at a rate of 1 per second (unless traited/using the correct utility) so each CnD uses 6 seconds (untraited) of initiative. Furthermore, if the Thief uses a utility to stealth then they have a minimum of a 40 second cooldown (Blinding Powder) before they can stealth again, slightly less if traited.
• The skill itself doesn’t have an initiative cost, but see above for the cost of Cloak and Dagger.

Try not to spread misinformation on the forums, there’s enough of that going around already.

Thanks.

are you guys even playing the thief or just trolling ? we get 1 ini every 1.33 sec
so for 4 ini regen = 4×1.33=5.32 sec ?
before was 1 ini every 1.66 sec, guess it changed, while lowered skill dmg…

Whenever someone says “Kill Shot is fine, it’s easy to see the dude crouching and dodge it”

I always think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

But yeah, it’s very strong.

Also people who say “Oh but the warrior needs to build adrenaline in combat to use it” have never played warrior and don’t know that they have a Heal skill that fills their Adrenaline, a Signet that has an on use that fills their adrenaline and also a lowish cooldown utility that can fill their adrenaline up to 2 times if used at the correct time (I know this from making a heavy burst using warrior build and sought all adrenaline gains I could)

Not to mention if you really wanted to you could try going glass cannon Kill Shot build sitting at 66% crit chance + Fury + 8 Stacks of Might and just snipe people and such.

xiv.7136:

kill shot:

- 2s cast time of obvious animation of a guy crouching and pointing his gun at you (from 1k range)
- not 100% crit chance(but has a +9% crit rate modifier and a +12% damage modifier)
- 10s cooldown(8s traited)
- requires full adrenaline (build in combat, or instantly with the use of heal/utility. i.e- takes less than skill cd)

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible(in melee range, has to be from behind)
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement(except stealthing, placing yourself behind the target in melee range, and hoping he won’t turn around; or using the burst chain of 4 skills which you can stun break out of)
- 100% crit chance (with a trait that most thieves choose to ignore)
- no cooldown (on the skill. but 45s cooldown on the burst chain)
- no initiative cost(for the skill; but 6+ initiative / utility use to stealth)

edited for you.

Skorn.4906:

xiv.7136:

kill shot:

- 2s cast time of obvious animation of a guy crouching and pointing his gun at you (from 1k range)
- not 100% crit chance(but has a +9% crit rate modifier and a +12% damage modifier)
- 10s cooldown(8s traited)
- requires full adrenaline (build in combat, or instantly with the use of heal/utility. i.e- takes less than skill cd)

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible(in melee range, has to be from behind)
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement(except stealthing, placing yourself behind the target in melee range, and hoping he won’t turn around; or using the burst chain of 4 skills which you can stun break out of)
- 100% crit chance (with a trait that most thieves choose to ignore)
- no cooldown (on the skill. but 45s cooldown on the burst chain)
- no initiative cost(for the skill; but 6+ initiative / utility use to stealth)

edited for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

November 2012 video showing single crit cuts against sub-80s while hiding in a zerg

Try doing this with kill shot:

http://youtu.be/jHOpACoX4ic

Solo vs zerg, uninterrupted footage, kills 30+ by chaining backstabs and stealthed stomps without getting killed once – again, ALL of it while utterly surrounded by hostile players.

Thieves who compare kill shot builds with backstab builds have no clue how to play a thief properly.

The difference in actual gameplay viability and killing ability in any situation is night and day.

Incurafy.6329:

xiv.7136:

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement
- 100% crit chance
- no cooldown
- no initiative cost

While I agree with your brief analysis of killshot, I completely disagree with you about backstab, and here’s why…

• Thieves can’t stealth for more than 4 seconds (traited) unless using Shadow Refuge, so a Thief is almost always visible before using stealth to prepare for a backstab.
• Backstab itself does not have 100% crit chance at all unless traited, and 99% of the time a Thief will take Executioner over Hidden Killer since their crit chance is already over 50-60%.
• The cooldown on Backstab is actually 3 seconds thanks to the revealed debuff and as long as it takes to get into stealth again via Cloak and Dagger or a utility. Cloak and Dagger uses 6 initiative (4 if traited) which regenerates at a rate of 1 per second (unless traited/using the correct utility) so each CnD uses 6 seconds (untraited) of initiative. Furthermore, if the Thief uses a utility to stealth then they have a minimum of a 40 second cooldown (Blinding Powder) before they can stealth again, slightly less if traited.
• The skill itself doesn’t have an initiative cost, but see above for the cost of Cloak and Dagger.

Try not to spread misinformation on the forums, there’s enough of that going around already.

Thanks.

As some else point out, initiative gain is not 1 per second, plus with c&d, even with the trait you still need 6 to activate it, you just get two back,

I would also like to point out that the cast time on kill shot doesn’t really factor in all that much if the warrior is sitting in the back of their zerg

xiv.7136:

Try doing this with kill shot:

http://youtu.be/jHOpACoX4ic

Solo vs zerg, uninterrupted footage, kills 30+ by chaining backstabs and stealthed stomps without getting killed once – again, ALL of it while utterly surrounded by hostile players.

Thieves who compare kill shot builds with backstab builds have no clue how to play a thief properly.

The difference in actual gameplay viability and killing ability in any situation is night and day.

This can hardly be called a zerg…
Its impressive how most of the players stand still and dont use a single AoE or just autoattack around, knowing the thief is there.

BS Thief and KS Warrior are 2 glass canons builds with very good results in diferent scenarios.

BS Thief is good on 1v1, against solo or small group of roamers.
On (true) zergs or good groups you cant get a kill as downed players will be ressed to fast for you to down them (unless you have haste, but you dont have 6 utilities slots). Most of the true GC BS builds, get in, kill someone and get out for the next 45secs or risk to be dead.
Need to be aware of retaliation and aegis buffs

KS warrior is good on a zerg, against other zerg and sieges.
The more crowded the players are the more you are going to take down.
Can get the combo ready out of reach (wall, behind zerg, etc), down a line of players with KS and finish them with volley, no need to go there.
Extra kills if people crowd on the downed one to ress it.
Repeat every 5-8secs
Bonus group buffs.
Need to take care with reflection walls.

Both are hard to counter on their ideal scenarios but are mostly going all for the kill, if a few things go bad they are dead.
I personaly get more bags with the warrior, but I think its becouse T1 has more zergs than small skirmishes.

One detail I think most overlook.
Most of those videos of Thiefvs"Zerg" are not really glass-cannon thiefs. Mostly are balanced builds with 30 in shadow arts for the full use of stealth (like 30 water eles).
If they do that much dmg, the targets are probably upleveled and/or undergeared or full Glass Canons.
I think if stealth is changed to increase revealed debuff or even remove from combat, the number of pure GC thiefs will increase as the window for a kill will be only the first attack.

xiv.7136:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

November 2012 video showing single crit cuts against sub-80s while hiding in a zerg

Try doing this with kill shot:

http://youtu.be/jHOpACoX4ic

Solo vs zerg, uninterrupted footage, kills 30+ by chaining backstabs and stealthed stomps without getting killed once – again, ALL of it while utterly surrounded by hostile players.

Thieves who compare kill shot builds with backstab builds have no clue how to play a thief properly.

The difference in actual gameplay viability and killing ability in any situation is night and day.[/quote]

I didn’t see a zerg in that video his other video he is messing around in a zerg. This isn’t anything new though I remember when the game came out people would daggerstorm into a zerg that was trying to take a keep. They are in the zerg they are outnumbered.

You can’t compare 2 abilities across to professions its apples and oranges and people will always have a counter. The counter to your above is warriors that run in 100bs someone and get out taking little to no damage. I can’t do that on a thief and a warrior could possibily kill 4 people.

I don’t know much about warriors but I am willing to bet they love 1 downed person because they know people will come to help.

[quote=1473443;DanH.5879:
are you guys even playing the thief or just trolling ? we get 1 ini every 1.33 sec
so for 4 ini regen = 4×1.33=5.32 sec ?
before was 1 ini every 1.66 sec, guess it changed, while lowered skill dmg…
[/quote]

My mistake, I thought the initiative regeneration was 1 per second.

Other than that, I have no idea how you could question whether or not I play a Thief… clearly my knowledge of the class shows that enough… not to mention the fact I’m defending it rather than QQing about crap.

xiv.7136:

Skorn.4906:

xiv.7136:

kill shot:

- 2s cast time of obvious animation of a guy crouching and pointing his gun at you (from 1k range)
- not 100% crit chance(but has a +9% crit rate modifier and a +12% damage modifier)
- 10s cooldown(8s traited)
- requires full adrenaline (build in combat, or instantly with the use of heal/utility. i.e- takes less than skill cd)

backstab:

- done by someone who is invisible(in melee range, has to be from behind)
- no build up time or pre-combat requirement(except stealthing, placing yourself behind the target in melee range, and hoping he won’t turn around; or using the burst chain of 4 skills which you can stun break out of)
- 100% crit chance (with a trait that most thieves choose to ignore)
- no cooldown (on the skill. but 45s cooldown on the burst chain)
- no initiative cost(for the skill; but 6+ initiative / utility use to stealth)

edited for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_rXq2LYg0

November 2012 video showing single crit cuts against sub-80s while hiding in a zerg

Try doing this with kill shot:

http://youtu.be/jHOpACoX4ic

Solo vs zerg, uninterrupted footage, kills 30+ by chaining backstabs and stealthed stomps without getting killed once – again, ALL of it while utterly surrounded by hostile players.

Thieves who compare kill shot builds with backstab builds have no clue how to play a thief properly.

The difference in actual gameplay viability and killing ability in any situation is night and day.

Let me state that this particular thief is very skilled, in fact extremely skilled.

1) He mentions in his video before it is next to impossible to kill certain professions like an elementalist.

- This means that the particular elementalist has chosen to use a very specific build, like how this yashi player traits his thief. By balancing everything down, it is next to impossible to beat the player one on one.

- I have not seen a capable guardian in his video, but I imagine he’s going to have a hard time killing him.

2) The thief player almost always target the weakest players, or glass cannons.

3) The enemies are slow to respond or simply not skilled enough to react.

I have played since the beginning of the GW2 launch, and even traited the LOL 3 shot burst (mug CND stab), used the backstab, D/P stealth, bleed thief build, but people are jumping to the warrior’s defence without even thinking how the warrior plays. You think he’s going out to the front lines and hitting someone? Rofl.

Do I think 1 vs zerg thief is wrong? Yeah, somewhat here and there, but if that’s the case I want nerfs on other professions too. You guys should just copy the best builds around and see why the other classes are so irritating to deal with.

Why thieves are complaining to the devs why other traits and skills are not buffed up? S/P is useless now without haste and poison thief is nothing short of silly (I remember it’s 300 AOE for shared poison), and dual pistols are pretty much gimmicky 900 range glass cannons as compared to rifle warriors with 20000 HP (just lmao.) and even survival builds with rifles can be found.

That dude out there is staying far away, and sniping you at 1500 Range, hitting 2-3 targets with a 9000-18000 damage tag on every 8 + 1.5 seconds (if I read the traiting correctly), and I experienced that gunshot power on chokepoints like bridges and Lord’s room.

I don’t want to refit my warrior with the rifle build because my own thief has 2 legendaries on him, but I think I’m going to start considering it.

LoneWolfie.1852:

I don’t want to refit my warrior with the rifle build because my own thief has 2 legendaries on him, but I think I’m going to start considering it.

Just do it… Its really funny on big fights (real zergs, not the spread out 10v10 that we see on the videos up here) and you dont need much gear to get big numbers… some yellow set is already going to give you a lot of fun… mix knights/zerkers and find a zerg to follow… You might even kill some perma-stealth thief that got in the way…

We can see warriors and avoid the attack, huge difference

What I find amusing about this thread is that it has not been moderated and like other one in this sub forum.

Other one mod said all Thief gameplay issues go here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback