(edited by zzBlurryzz.7492)
Alright Karl, When is the D/D Fix?
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
1 thing that should have never ever came to anyone’s mind was putting CiS next to SRej. I have seen weak sets receiving baby steps in improvement but never were they gutted so everyone should play the strongest one this only happened with d/p and literally every other thief’s set. CiS needs to go back to master tier or CnD gets baseline blind we don’t anymore p/p like sets.
@BrunoBRS the “on demand stealth” only applies to d/p
1 complaint that’s under the radar because they are too much of them is Concealed Defeating competing with SE…nothing can compete to SE put the fall damage there instead.
On SR it’s my favorite joy in PvP when a thief drops it, that skill is overrated.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread
The Dhuumfire thread
(edited by Sagat.3285)
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
By the way you’re talking I don’t think you’ve played much D/D in your time. Many knockbacks cover the ENTIRE circle of SR. I think of Mesmers GS 5 off of the top of my head. You’re also acting like ArenaNet and seem to be assuming you will land everything since your target isn’t moving…. A lot of the time you wont land your Basilisk venom due to Invuln, blind, block, etc etc.
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
And channeled skills should drop target if the target stealths.
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
By the way you’re talking I don’t think you’ve played much D/D in your time. Many knockbacks cover the ENTIRE circle of SR. I think of Mesmers GS 5 off of the top of my head. You’re also acting like ArenaNet and seem to be assuming you will land everything since your target isn’t moving…. A lot of the time you wont land your Basilisk venom due to Invuln, blind, block, etc etc.
so wait, you don’t want to be punished when someone manages to knock you back with a big, obvious skill that you didn’t dodge for god knows what reason (also, you could’ve considered shadowstepping away before using SR, to buy you time), and you don’t want to be punished when someone defends themselves against your elite skill, which you should’ve landed FROM STEALTH? are you not seeing the problem with your complaints here?
yeah, i’m “sounding like the ANet guys”, because the ANet guys actually put thought into their design decisions, even if you think it doesn’t seem like it, and they take it into account that this game isn’t just for thieves.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
By the way you’re talking I don’t think you’ve played much D/D in your time. Many knockbacks cover the ENTIRE circle of SR. I think of Mesmers GS 5 off of the top of my head. You’re also acting like ArenaNet and seem to be assuming you will land everything since your target isn’t moving…. A lot of the time you wont land your Basilisk venom due to Invuln, blind, block, etc etc.
so wait, you don’t want to be punished when someone manages to knock you back with a big, obvious skill that you didn’t dodge for god knows what reason (also, you could’ve considered shadowstepping away before using SR, to buy you time), and you don’t want to be punished when someone defends themselves against your elite skill, which you should’ve landed FROM STEALTH? are you not seeing the problem with your complaints here?
yeah, i’m “sounding like the ANet guys”, because the ANet guys actually put thought into their design decisions, even if you think it doesn’t seem like it, and they take it into account that this game isn’t just for thieves.
Jesus. Go play D/D in WvW for a few hours and come back with a different opinion lmfao. You clearly don’t use the set. It’s clear.
yeah, i’m “sounding like the ANet guys”, because the ANet guys actually put thought into their design decisions…
They don’t.
-agreed
-not sure how that helps d/d…
-something should be added, I agree like drastically reduced condition duration or something to make a sitting duck less road kill.
-I don’t think they should bother with revealed durations, rather they give us out of stealth defenses so we aren’t forced to cower in the shadows just to stay in a fight.
-I think we have plenty of ways to stealth, just not all of them are as simple as d/p which imho is good.
-Don’t need invuln on it, just make the EVADE frame reliable and turn death blossom into a skill shot like warrior Gs #3 so we can use it for positioning and not just dancing towards a moving target.
-Agreed, could make “petrify” remove stability or be considered “unblockable” so its a little more unique than a fancy term for stun.
“I’m waiting for the staff to get off their lunch
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
break. I feel like they should be back by now..”
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
By the way you’re talking I don’t think you’ve played much D/D in your time. Many knockbacks cover the ENTIRE circle of SR. I think of Mesmers GS 5 off of the top of my head. You’re also acting like ArenaNet and seem to be assuming you will land everything since your target isn’t moving…. A lot of the time you wont land your Basilisk venom due to Invuln, blind, block, etc etc.
so wait, you don’t want to be punished when someone manages to knock you back with a big, obvious skill that you didn’t dodge for god knows what reason (also, you could’ve considered shadowstepping away before using SR, to buy you time), and you don’t want to be punished when someone defends themselves against your elite skill, which you should’ve landed FROM STEALTH? are you not seeing the problem with your complaints here?
yeah, i’m “sounding like the ANet guys”, because the ANet guys actually put thought into their design decisions, even if you think it doesn’t seem like it, and they take it into account that this game isn’t just for thieves.
Jesus. Go play D/D in WvW for a few hours and come back with a different opinion lmfao. You clearly don’t use the set. It’s clear.
no, i don’t. i prefer D/P. none of those issues you raised are exclusive to D/D though, as they’re all utility-related, and honestly, they’re all L2P issues. shadow refuge, basilisk venom, and being hit by channeled skills while in stealth, none of those “issues” have anything to do with what weapon you’re using.
spend some time on sPvP, see what people better than you do in a live environment instead of just montages, then take what you learn back to WvW. ‘cause right now, it’s clear you just want an easy win and no way for your opponents to counter you.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
I do need vulnerability on CnD as backstabs are pretty weak compared to what other classes dish out anyway. Without it you have 5% less damage on backstab.
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
By the way you’re talking I don’t think you’ve played much D/D in your time. Many knockbacks cover the ENTIRE circle of SR. I think of Mesmers GS 5 off of the top of my head. You’re also acting like ArenaNet and seem to be assuming you will land everything since your target isn’t moving…. A lot of the time you wont land your Basilisk venom due to Invuln, blind, block, etc etc.
so wait, you don’t want to be punished when someone manages to knock you back with a big, obvious skill that you didn’t dodge for god knows what reason (also, you could’ve considered shadowstepping away before using SR, to buy you time), and you don’t want to be punished when someone defends themselves against your elite skill, which you should’ve landed FROM STEALTH? are you not seeing the problem with your complaints here?
yeah, i’m “sounding like the ANet guys”, because the ANet guys actually put thought into their design decisions, even if you think it doesn’t seem like it, and they take it into account that this game isn’t just for thieves.
Jesus. Go play D/D in WvW for a few hours and come back with a different opinion lmfao. You clearly don’t use the set. It’s clear.
no, i don’t. i prefer D/P. none of those issues you raised are exclusive to D/D though, as they’re all utility-related, and honestly, they’re all L2P issues. shadow refuge, basilisk venom, and being hit by channeled skills while in stealth, none of those “issues” have anything to do with what weapon you’re using.
spend some time on sPvP, see what people better than you do in a live environment instead of just montages, then take what you learn back to WvW. ‘cause right now, it’s clear you just want an easy win and no way for your opponents to counter you.
LOL. No. You play a build that gives you on demend stealth whenever you want. D/P is a walk in the park compared to D/D. People who aren’t good enough to use D/D, use D/P. lol. Seriously. Try D/D. Enjoy missing one CnD and then getting destroyed because of it. Go try.
Thinks I would change on D/D to make it more viable compared to the other Weapon Builds
Backstab: Now is 100% always a guaranteed Critical Hit, which gives the target on hit also 10 Stacks of Vulnerability, if the target had more than 50% health
That trait that gives 100% critical for stealth attacks gets baselined and replaced with a better more general useful trait for the thief, like somethign that increases the maximum range of shortbowes and pistols and lets their auto attacks bounce once or in case of trick shot bounce once more.
Auto Attack String: Increase the Attack Speed of the string and let the Double Strikes hit twice, so doubling their hits. Let Wild Strike Boon Steal instead of giving back a tiny bit of Endurance and rename it to “Thievery”
Twisting Fangs: needs a massive damage buff (like 150%+ therefore that you you fight only with 1 Dagger and should cost 1-2 Initiative lesser
Heartseeker: Reverting the Damage so that it deals more damage agaisnt targets with high health ancd becomes weaker against enemies with low health that are already nearly dead. Raise the range from 450 to 600 to make it a better gap closer and add an evade frame to it.
Death Blossom Increase the Evade Frame to its Full Duration, let it grant while that animation runs also Resistance and Stability for 1 second and give it a 100% damage buff and let it deal instead of 3 stacks of bleeding 3 different conditions 1 stack each.
1 Stack of Bleeding, 1 Stack of Torment and 1 Stack of Confusion so that this skill becomes much better of a Hybrid Skill for thieves going for both, direct and condition damage to make with this skill more pressure. 3 stacks of just only bleeding are way too easily removed, but by gettign from this skill 3 different conditions, its not so easy to clean them all away instantly so that its more likely that the conditions will deal over tiem some more damage, if you perform some quick death blossoms after another, confusing your enemy with your quick and wild moves, while slicing them up from all directions. This change would give especialyl then synergy with the Impaling Lotus effect from the daredevil.
Dancing Dagger: Should steal boons from foes, when the dagger hits a foe through the bounces multiple times and get some increased velocity by like 20%
Cloak and Dagger: Just change it to an on demand stealth, that doesn’t require anymore targets to hit. For 6 initiative, it deserves to be an on demand stealth.
replace vulnerability with blindness. If you hit with it, the damage that you deal then is just an extra reward for risking it to get into melee and that damage from cloak and dagger should get slightly increased and give the thief for 2 seoncds quickness, so that there is a rewarding incentive to risk going into melee to land the hit also instead of usign just the safe way by going into stealth with it from safe range without hitting someone.
Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside
I don’t think everyone would agree here, but I think with death blossom shouldn’t be increased in damage. Instead, remove the bleeds altogether and increase the evade frame. At the moment you either run a condi or hybrid condi and spam death blossom or you run power and don’t use death blossom at all (high initiative cost, unreliable evade frame/leaves you open to getting bursted).
Personally I would rather have the increased evade frame, leaving the physical component of damage where it is (reduce it for all I care), but apply cripple instead of bleed (like slashing tendons). Now the reason this is beneficial to d/d is at the moment we have to take shadow arts just to make d/d somewhat competitive with d/p. the increased evade would increase survivability (timed well) with the absence of blind (or even further in competition with the blind field from pistol off-hand), and it would cripple the target allowing for easier to set up backstabs or landing quick attacks.
I don’t know, this is just a quick idea to make d/d viable now rather than having to rework the whole set and wait months-years for a fix. What do you guys think of this?
Edit: Thought it would be pretty cool to see a steal → into deathblossom → CnD → Backstab. Thief is definitely a flashy, class and aside from it’s obvious flaws death blossom does look pretty cool.. if only they made it useful.
(edited by Feral.3609)
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
By the way you’re talking I don’t think you’ve played much D/D in your time. Many knockbacks cover the ENTIRE circle of SR. I think of Mesmers GS 5 off of the top of my head. You’re also acting like ArenaNet and seem to be assuming you will land everything since your target isn’t moving…. A lot of the time you wont land your Basilisk venom due to Invuln, blind, block, etc etc.
so wait, you don’t want to be punished when someone manages to knock you back with a big, obvious skill that you didn’t dodge for god knows what reason (also, you could’ve considered shadowstepping away before using SR, to buy you time), and you don’t want to be punished when someone defends themselves against your elite skill, which you should’ve landed FROM STEALTH? are you not seeing the problem with your complaints here?
yeah, i’m “sounding like the ANet guys”, because the ANet guys actually put thought into their design decisions, even if you think it doesn’t seem like it, and they take it into account that this game isn’t just for thieves.
Jesus. Go play D/D in WvW for a few hours and come back with a different opinion lmfao. You clearly don’t use the set. It’s clear.
no, i don’t. i prefer D/P. none of those issues you raised are exclusive to D/D though, as they’re all utility-related, and honestly, they’re all L2P issues. shadow refuge, basilisk venom, and being hit by channeled skills while in stealth, none of those “issues” have anything to do with what weapon you’re using.
spend some time on sPvP, see what people better than you do in a live environment instead of just montages, then take what you learn back to WvW. ‘cause right now, it’s clear you just want an easy win and no way for your opponents to counter you.
LOL. No. You play a build that gives you on demend stealth whenever you want. D/P is a walk in the park compared to D/D. People who aren’t good enough to use D/D, use D/P. lol. Seriously. Try D/D. Enjoy missing one CnD and then getting destroyed because of it. Go try.
No one here is arguing about not improving the thief, and I kinda like you blind on C&D.
What you suggesting is a buff to SR and BV, some of the strongest skills that thief’s got.
What you’re calling a weakness is what everyone else is calling counter play.
Most of the regulars here has played enough of the thief to know most of it’s short comings. Even though there may be a little differences of opinion on how to improve them, most people here agree that shadow refuge should be the last thing to be looked at. There’s a reason it stapled to most thieves bar.
My main issue on Basilisk is that it is an ELITE that stuns for 1 second.
Mesmer’s have a signet that instant casts and stuns for 3 seconds.
Do the math.
Angelina is free game again.
Crystal Desert
Crystal Desert
My main issue on Basilisk is that it is an ELITE that stuns for 1 second.
Mesmer’s have a signet that instant casts and stuns for 3 seconds.
Do the math.
This largely has to do with expectations on the way the stun is applied (during a backstab), but you won’t hear me arguing that Basilisk isn’t much weaker than it should be.
I don’t think everyone would agree here, but I think with death blossom shouldn’t be increased in damage. Instead, remove the bleeds altogether and increase the evade frame. At the moment you either run a condi or hybrid condi and spam death blossom or you run power and don’t use death blossom at all (high initiative cost, unreliable evade frame/leaves you open to getting bursted).
Personally I would rather have the increased evade frame, leaving the physical component of damage where it is (reduce it for all I care), but apply cripple instead of bleed (like slashing tendons). Now the reason this is beneficial to d/d is at the moment we have to take shadow arts just to make d/d somewhat competitive with d/p. the increased evade would increase survivability (timed well) with the absence of blind (or even further in competition with the blind field from pistol off-hand), and it would cripple the target allowing for easier to set up backstabs or landing quick attacks.
I don’t know, this is just a quick idea to make d/d viable now rather than having to rework the whole set and wait months-years for a fix. What do you guys think of this?
Edit: Thought it would be pretty cool to see a steal -> into deathblossom -> CnD -> Backstab. Thief is definitely a flashy, class and aside from it’s obvious flaws death blossom does look pretty cool.. if only they made it useful.
Nope. I don’t want the bleeds to be removed. It is currently very possible to play a condi or hybrid D/D even if it’s not quite as elite in PvP. Death Blossom is crazy good, and the spec as a whole is much better with the poison buffs.
It’s important that D/D retain that functionality because S/x does not have any condi play at all. D/D needs to be build-versatile.
If anything, they need to just buff Dancing Daggers. It originally did a ton of damage, and they over-nerfed it a few months after launch.
A lot of the suggestions made by the people in this thread are completely ridiculous and would be extremely and blatantly OP or have limited counterplay.
Here’s how to make D/D not terrible:
Nerf D/P’s Shadow Shot; Cost 5 initiative, 1.15 scaling.
HK Trait -> Additional effect to remove 1 condition on exiting stealth
Heartseeker -> Increased Initiative Cost from 3 to 4, modified damage scaling as follows: Below 25% = 2.1; Below 50% = 1.55; Above 50% = .82; Decreases spam potency/Fire+Air Dual Trigger + high damage from mid-scaling on second strike via a stealthed D/P.
Death Blossom -> Targeted 450 range evade lunge (Whirlwind Attack), applies 5 bleeding at point blank/130 radius, evade duration extended to full animation, no pre/post-cast animations/lockout. Bleed range restriction prevents spamming 3 to permanently evade + reposition + deal damage.
Dancing Dagger – Additionally applies 1 stack of poison for 8s, applies 3/2/1 stacks of vulnerability for 8/6/4 seconds dependent on bounce, heat-seeking like Shortbow Auto. A very usable hybrid skill for damage, heal cuts, and preventing escapes via cripple.
CnD -> Unblockable. Reduced damage by 50% if used while under the effects of the Revealed effect. Gives some better reliability to stealth while not removing counterplay (blinds, immunities, reveal) but not preventing damage and defense due to a block-heavy opponent.
Buff thief accordingly through better defensive/skirmishing traits and through better trait spread of existing effects and reducing dependency trait lines like Trickery such as 15 baseline initiative.
Problem solved.
Formal Thief Elite Spec proposal:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
(edited by DeceiverX.8361)
D/D, being a stealth-oriented build, has better cleanse than most stuff on thief. hide in shadows + cleanse on stealth is a great heal and cleanse.
the problem with D/D is that when played as a condi (or even hybrid) set, it only has one useful skill, death blossom, and death blossom right now is really clunky (seriously, up those evade frames. there are top PvPers playing the game with ping higher than that).
my suggestions:
- death blossom gets a better evasion (either 1/2 or 3/4, leaving the very end of the animation, which already roots you, as the vulnerable spot)
- dancing dagger applies a single stack of torment on hit (so up to 2 stacks depending on how it bounces), to keep in line with its movement-impairing theme.
- dagger training should be merged with potent poison, and maybe buff the chance to 50%, or at least have the poison duration increased to 3-4 seconds.
this doesn’t solve the fact that heartseeker, CnD, and backstab remain useless to the kit, but at least it would be a nice condi set that could go for either tricks or traps for the utility.
as for your suggestions… i honestly disagree with half of them. basi venom is incredibly strong (also, it’s 40 seconds, not 45); revealed is already pretty kitten short (unless you count the times when someone sacrifices a utility slot specifically to spite you); SR needs some sort of counter that doesn’t rely on gimmick utilities (i.e. AoE reveal), plus it’s already the best utility skill in the whole game across all professions, last thing it needs is a buff; D/D and D/P have pretty much on-demand stealth even without traiting or bringing utilities (and yes, i mean PvP).
S/R is the best utility in game? Til a knockback comes in that WILL hit because we don’t have stability. Basilisk venom needs to be able to stack. And yes, when I’m referring to revealed, I am referring to 6+ second revealed. You’re a Dead D/D if that hits you. Another thing I forgot to mention. Make targeted skills drop if you stealth. I’m tired of getting an entire rapid fire into my kitten while I’m in stealth.
a knockback that the guy has to aim blindly at and hope it pushes you far enough out of it that you get revealed (hint, position your SR against a wall if you’re really that unconfident on your dodging skills).
basilisk venom does stack, if you actually wait. if you stealth, basi while in the safety of stealth, backstab, and heartseeker, that’s almost the full 3 seconds that you kept the guy stuck in place, all while dealing ridiculous damage. by then, panic strike will have triggered, giving you another 2 seconds of immobilizing to go ham on the poor guy.
channeled skills not dropping when someone stealths is a way to counter stealth. stealth isn’t a free “i win” card. one of the ways to deal with it is to start a channeled skill when you know the thief will panic-stealth (like, say, when they’re low on health and trying to drop a shadow refuge). also, channeled skills can be dodged and LoS’d. if you just hide behind anything, even a tree stump, you’ll be safe against the rapid fire.
By the way you’re talking I don’t think you’ve played much D/D in your time. Many knockbacks cover the ENTIRE circle of SR. I think of Mesmers GS 5 off of the top of my head. You’re also acting like ArenaNet and seem to be assuming you will land everything since your target isn’t moving…. A lot of the time you wont land your Basilisk venom due to Invuln, blind, block, etc etc.
so wait, you don’t want to be punished when someone manages to knock you back with a big, obvious skill that you didn’t dodge for god knows what reason (also, you could’ve considered shadowstepping away before using SR, to buy you time), and you don’t want to be punished when someone defends themselves against your elite skill, which you should’ve landed FROM STEALTH? are you not seeing the problem with your complaints here?
yeah, i’m “sounding like the ANet guys”, because the ANet guys actually put thought into their design decisions, even if you think it doesn’t seem like it, and they take it into account that this game isn’t just for thieves.
Jesus. Go play D/D in WvW for a few hours and come back with a different opinion lmfao. You clearly don’t use the set. It’s clear.
no, i don’t. i prefer D/P. none of those issues you raised are exclusive to D/D though, as they’re all utility-related, and honestly, they’re all L2P issues. shadow refuge, basilisk venom, and being hit by channeled skills while in stealth, none of those “issues” have anything to do with what weapon you’re using.
spend some time on sPvP, see what people better than you do in a live environment instead of just montages, then take what you learn back to WvW. ‘cause right now, it’s clear you just want an easy win and no way for your opponents to counter you.
LOL. No. You play a build that gives you on demend stealth whenever you want. D/P is a walk in the park compared to D/D. People who aren’t good enough to use D/D, use D/P. lol. Seriously. Try D/D. Enjoy missing one CnD and then getting destroyed because of it. Go try.
No one here is arguing about not improving the thief, and I kinda like you blind on C&D.
What you suggesting is a buff to SR and BV, some of the strongest skills that thief’s got.What you’re calling a weakness is what everyone else is calling counter play.
Most of the regulars here has played enough of the thief to know most of it’s short comings. Even though there may be a little differences of opinion on how to improve them, most people here agree that shadow refuge should be the last thing to be looked at. There’s a reason it stapled to most thieves bar.
thank you.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
My take
Auto + Backstab: Leave as it is since any buff here will buff D/P and that’s not the plan.
Heartseeker: Leave as it is since any buff here will buff D/P and that’s not the plan.
Death Blossom: In a indirect buff, DB is an awesome whirl finisher. Would be great that, tought utility or anything, we could get acess to fields to make good use of it.
If not I would add a reflect skill factor and make it remove paralysis (which became a heavy issue after the trait nerf)
Dancing Dagger: I like this skill really. DD is bad alone but its awesome when spammed. I would reduce the initiative cost from 3 to 2 to make it more spammable and risk free.
A range attack works pretty well with D/D and I have a lot of fun spamming this sometimes.
C&D: The biggest issue of C&D isn’t the skill itself but how it sucks to miss it in a fight.
Missing this skill means that you lost you chance to stealth, wasted half or 1/3 of your initiative and I won’t mention the damage.
Make it more risk free. First the Thief will enter stealth regardless of the damage procing or not. Enemy blocked it? Stealth procs, simple as it.
Second raise the range from 130 to 260 and make it 360º around the thief. You can use the Dagger#3 without offhand for animation (without root, of course). If the spinning attack hit anything in range, stealth.
C&D easier to hit = happy D/D thief. If the enemy player is competent enough to roll a 0,5 sec attack he deserves it. That’s counterplay.
Missing C&D because of lag or a sudden movement is frustration.
Another call would make C&D clean Revealed and proc Stealth. Now THAT would make those 6 initiative worth using. A nice boon to S/D build as well.
If everything fails, at the very least reduce the initiative cost from 6 to 4 and remove the vuln.
Won’t give any take on utility’s or traits because any thief build can use those. There is no point modifying those and think you will buff D/D with it. In the end you are just overbuffing D/P… again.
Thinks I would change on D/D to make it more viable compared to the other Weapon Builds
Backstab: Now is 100% always a guaranteed Critical Hit, which gives the target on hit also 10 Stacks of Vulnerability, if the target had more than 50% health
That trait that gives 100% critical for stealth attacks gets baselined and replaced with a better more general useful trait for the thief, like somethign that increases the maximum range of shortbowes and pistols and lets their auto attacks bounce once or in case of trick shot bounce once more.
Auto Attack String: Increase the Attack Speed of the string and let the Double Strikes hit twice, so doubling their hits. Let Wild Strike Boon Steal instead of giving back a tiny bit of Endurance and rename it to “Thievery”
Twisting Fangs: needs a massive damage buff (like 150%+ therefore that you you fight only with 1 Dagger and should cost 1-2 Initiative lesser
Heartseeker: Reverting the Damage so that it deals more damage agaisnt targets with high health ancd becomes weaker against enemies with low health that are already nearly dead. Raise the range from 450 to 600 to make it a better gap closer and add an evade frame to it.
Death Blossom Increase the Evade Frame to its Full Duration, let it grant while that animation runs also Resistance and Stability for 1 second and give it a 100% damage buff and let it deal instead of 3 stacks of bleeding 3 different conditions 1 stack each.
1 Stack of Bleeding, 1 Stack of Torment and 1 Stack of Confusion so that this skill becomes much better of a Hybrid Skill for thieves going for both, direct and condition damage to make with this skill more pressure. 3 stacks of just only bleeding are way too easily removed, but by gettign from this skill 3 different conditions, its not so easy to clean them all away instantly so that its more likely that the conditions will deal over tiem some more damage, if you perform some quick death blossoms after another, confusing your enemy with your quick and wild moves, while slicing them up from all directions. This change would give especialyl then synergy with the Impaling Lotus effect from the daredevil.Dancing Dagger: Should steal boons from foes, when the dagger hits a foe through the bounces multiple times and get some increased velocity by like 20%
Cloak and Dagger: Just change it to an on demand stealth, that doesn’t require anymore targets to hit. For 6 initiative, it deserves to be an on demand stealth.
replace vulnerability with blindness. If you hit with it, the damage that you deal then is just an extra reward for risking it to get into melee and that damage from cloak and dagger should get slightly increased and give the thief for 2 seoncds quickness, so that there is a rewarding incentive to risk going into melee to land the hit also instead of usign just the safe way by going into stealth with it from safe range without hitting someone.
Literally every single one of these is grossly OP, and the very last one is so bad almost spit out my drink. “For 6 initiative we deserve to just stealth on demand regardless of targets or hitting” LOOOL.
SBI | Oceans | Ranger – Thief – Ele – Eng – Nec – Guard – Rev
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
Celestial Avatar is like an old man: Takes forever to get up and is spent in 4 seconds
Hey, better start out grossly op and have then space to correct thigns down slowly, till you hit the right spo,t instead of starting off mediocre and nerfign then everythign to death until the point is reach that a whole weapon set isn’t viable compared to most other sets.
Its easier to nerf something down until you find the right spot, than to constantly buff somethign up, until you find the right spot, where you have to constantly consider all other class builds too.
I don’t my suggestions as OP as you…
Myking backstab 100% guaranteded critical is absolutely REALISTICALLY, you attack someone out of surprise, who didnt see the attack coming. Such an attack has to be always critical and the only counterplay to such attacks should be well timed preventive block skills.
The Auto Attack of Daggers feels imo too slow and makes not enough pressure, because the damage you deal with dagger AA as thief is absolutely mediocre compared to the Dagger AA of classes like Necro or Elementalist which do with their AA alot more dps.
By doubling the Double Strikes, which lies already in its NAME, that its attacks should hitting daggers should each hit twice, the AA DPS can get slightly increease without beign OP and it gives the thief from AA a slightly better chance at proccing sigil effects due to 2 hits more in the chance, that could be critical and trigger sigil effects.
by making D/D with the AA and Dancing Daggers more of a Boon Steal weapon set, it underlines absolutely in my opinion the true role of the thief, as a class, which should play out the inherent role as the superior Boon Denial Class, which uses that gameplay to empower themself with that at the same time, while they weaken foes that way.
Boon Steal is the spirit of the thief gameplay design and in my opinion its an absolute must, that Thief should become the very best class in that role.
No other class should be better at removing and stealing boons, than the Thief. Thats their expertise. Stealing, its their lief, it should be everything the thief class is build upon in first line and not Stealth. Steal is their Class Mechanic, not Stealth or Dodge and for that is stealing in my opining way too much underrepresentated in the current thief design and this includes heavily Boon Stealing to.
Putting it into AA2 and to DD are in my opinino the two best spots in the D/D build, where you could put Boon Steal into to have 1 in melee range and 1 for medium range that can effect multiple targets at the same time with the help of bouncing daggers, which requires sitional awareness of the thief player and good positioning just to get the best results out of DD.
Ok, maybe I went a bit too far by saying increasign the direct damage of DB, but the condition split is an absolute muts, if DB shouöld ever count as a viable skill for a Hybrid Build and should ever become a viable skill with that you can produce pressure.
Just 1 single condtion, even if it is bleeding with 3 stacks per DB use is NOT good enough for a hybrid build and 1 single condition is way too easily removed to deal alot of condi damage.
hybrid builds are only effective, if you have enough conditions, damaging as like non damaging ones, that can work for you as cover conditions to keep the damaging ones as long as possible working. before the enemy can remove them.
And yes, 6 initiative is alot, for that many initiative is CnD way too risky, way too easily mitigatable and i know, that im not alone with that opinion.
However, there needs also a reward for playing CnD out riskfully over just choosing a safer stealth. There needs to be an incentive, whhy you would want to go into melee.
The damage alone isn’t enough.But an AoE blind and 2 seconds of quickness for a short pressure play or for a very quick finishing move if you know, that your CnD will down the enemy. that woudl be very rewardign then and a good incentive to risk it to go into melee combat.
SB is on demand shadow step blind
OHP is on demand pulsing blindness and with a little SB blast also on demand stealth that you can use quickly whenever needed from safe range, costs a few initiative this way mor,e but therefore you have more mobility and a better blindness, where currently CnD offers no blindness at all, offers no mobility offers just only stealth on hit that forces you currently to go into melee combat just to get frustrated, that your tries either get easily dodged, or blocked or evaded or blinded through whattver for gameplay mechanics that make it easy the way too obvious animation seeing coming.
So for the lesser helpful utility effects that you have as D/D, in regard of mobilit,y in regard of damage mitigated and all this for having to play currently perfectly, with way more risk, than with the x/P > SB combo – yes, its well deserved that CnD gets for its same initiative cost a more riskless on demand stealth to be more on par with the x/P > SB combo.
Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside
Thinks I would change on D/D to make it more viable compared to the other Weapon Builds
Backstab: Now is 100% always a guaranteed Critical Hit, which gives the target on hit also 10 Stacks of Vulnerability, if the target had more than 50% health
That trait that gives 100% critical for stealth attacks gets baselined and replaced with a better more general useful trait for the thief, like somethign that increases the maximum range of shortbowes and pistols and lets their auto attacks bounce once or in case of trick shot bounce once more.
Auto Attack String: Increase the Attack Speed of the string and let the Double Strikes hit twice, so doubling their hits. Let Wild Strike Boon Steal instead of giving back a tiny bit of Endurance and rename it to “Thievery”
Twisting Fangs: needs a massive damage buff (like 150%+ therefore that you you fight only with 1 Dagger and should cost 1-2 Initiative lesser
Heartseeker: Reverting the Damage so that it deals more damage agaisnt targets with high health ancd becomes weaker against enemies with low health that are already nearly dead. Raise the range from 450 to 600 to make it a better gap closer and add an evade frame to it.
Death Blossom Increase the Evade Frame to its Full Duration, let it grant while that animation runs also Resistance and Stability for 1 second and give it a 100% damage buff and let it deal instead of 3 stacks of bleeding 3 different conditions 1 stack each.
1 Stack of Bleeding, 1 Stack of Torment and 1 Stack of Confusion so that this skill becomes much better of a Hybrid Skill for thieves going for both, direct and condition damage to make with this skill more pressure. 3 stacks of just only bleeding are way too easily removed, but by gettign from this skill 3 different conditions, its not so easy to clean them all away instantly so that its more likely that the conditions will deal over tiem some more damage, if you perform some quick death blossoms after another, confusing your enemy with your quick and wild moves, while slicing them up from all directions. This change would give especialyl then synergy with the Impaling Lotus effect from the daredevil.Dancing Dagger: Should steal boons from foes, when the dagger hits a foe through the bounces multiple times and get some increased velocity by like 20%
Cloak and Dagger: Just change it to an on demand stealth, that doesn’t require anymore targets to hit. For 6 initiative, it deserves to be an on demand stealth.
replace vulnerability with blindness. If you hit with it, the damage that you deal then is just an extra reward for risking it to get into melee and that damage from cloak and dagger should get slightly increased and give the thief for 2 seoncds quickness, so that there is a rewarding incentive to risk going into melee to land the hit also instead of usign just the safe way by going into stealth with it from safe range without hitting someone.Literally every single one of these is grossly OP, and the very last one is so bad almost spit out my drink. “For 6 initiative we deserve to just stealth on demand regardless of targets or hitting” LOOOL.
you know, when i first read that post i was dead set that it was a joke post mocking OP’s clear lack of understanding of the importance of counterplay.
now, i’m not so sure.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
Hey, better start out grossly op and have then space to correct thigns down slowly,
This is how the thief pretty much started at release. Now look where we are.
So no, this is NOT what should happen, nor do I want this class to be FoTM ever again, because I do take pride in fighting fair.
Formal Thief Elite Spec proposal:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/