Guild Wars 2

One of my alternate build is the Mirage 10/0/10/20/30. What those traits are doesn’t matter except that second 10, Shadow’s Embrace. Condi clear there, Condi clear on sword, Utilities are Withdraw, Shadow Step, Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge, RFI. Now then for a dancing build, it actually has a decent amount of condition removal, Basilisk Venom was another condi removal due to Lyssa. However with the upcoming change to the runes, I feel as though other alternatives may be needed (of course this is debatable as I usually save B venom for when im condi spammed but the boons are -really- nice). So if these runes do get swapped out, would a nice alt be Eagle or Scholar? I know ferocity will be a thing so this is crucial. Btw, all armor for this build is zerk while trinkets is mostly knights with some soldiers.

EDIT: now that patch is out

Its no that problem you will continue remove 5 condition taking 5 boons, are stil fine runes set.

PvP Traveller Runes will be available on the 15th, also with the incomming changes itis impossible to guess what we will be able to get.

No way to know. We need to wait and see what’s coming in terms of changes to other runesets.

Lyssa will still be “OK”, but something you may want to consider is swapping your food to Saffron-scented Poultry Soup, and then combining that with a more offensive set of Runes than Lyssa.

saffron scented soup is not even enough to cure the common cold lol
if u r worried about conditions running a S/D build with out speccing in to shadow arts
lyssa is the way to go .

Saffron-scented Poultry Soup.
is only enough so u don’t need to blow your 45 sec condition remove for a single condition

Oh please. He’s using Withdraw. That means the food is probably going to clear a damaging condition, if there’s one there, because the heal takes off cripple/chill/immob first. Coupled with IS and CnD, that’s a decent amount of everyday condition removal.

Without Lyssa, condi-bombs have to be taken care of with utilities.

shadow step can help … but it is more important as a stun breaker !
u shouldn’t use it just to remove conditions. thats just a nice side bonus

unless u spec in to shadow arts for condition remove .
u can easily be over run with conditions if u r not running lyssa

that Saffron-scented Poultry Soup. is nothing but a cough drop

interceptor plz don’t tell people garbage .
u help no one and drag out forums

if u r willing to make a big hole in your s/d build don’t run lyssa .
S/D is pigeon holed around lyssa’s condition clear .
because acrobatics trait line condition remove r nearly unusable :S

RFI is a far better stunbreaker than Shadowstep, since it comes out instantly and auto-evades. SS should be used primarily for the condi clear and mobility if you are an S/D Thief. Even using Blinding Powder can be better here, since while it is not a stunbreaker technically, it’s usable while stunned and blinds in an AOE (plus cleans conditions, in this build).

If you’re using Shadowstep as a breaker, you are either in dire straits or you are making poor decisions.

what ?…….

lol (Roll For Initiative) can be canceled out by mass stun lol .. and has a longer cool down

shadow step can’t … i wish RFI could not be canceled out by mass stun ..
but shadow step has no problem with it ..and a shorter cool down

shadow step is a LOT better than (Roll For Initiative)

caveman.5840:

what ?…….

lol (Roll For Initiative) can be canceled out by mass stun lol .. and has a longer cool down

shadow step can’t … i wash RFI could not be canceled out by mass stun ..
but shadow step has no problem with it ..and a shorter cool down

shadow step is a LOT better than (Roll For Initiative)

R4I is a double evade, and can’t be interrupted. I’ve used it for well over a year and have never once had it fail due to “lol mass stunz”.

i have !
and stopped using it because of it

mid evade get stopped because of stuns .

it is great for pvp never once had a problem with it in pvp …
but wvw it can get canceled out

shadow step is the safest choice and comes with a shorter cool down and condition clear

caveman.5840:

i have !
and stopped using it because of it

mid evade get stopped because of stuns .

it is great for pvp never once had a problem with it in pvp …
but wvw it can get canceled out

shadow step is the safest choice and comes with a shorter cool down and condition clear

Why not both? :P

Shadow step is 2 stunbreaks in one too, something we can’t forget.
Either way.

I’d stick with lyssa for no, it still does its job extremely well.

RedSpectrum.1975:

One of my alternate build is the Mirage 10/0/10/20/30. What those traits are doesn’t matter except that second 10, Shadow’s Embrace. Condi clear there, Condi clear on sword, Utilities are Withdraw, Shadow Step, Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge, RFI. Now then for a dancing build, it actually has a decent amount of condition removal, Basilisk Venom was another condi removal due to Lyssa. However with the upcoming change to the runes, I feel as though other alternatives may be needed (of course this is debatable as I usually save B venom for when im condi spammed but the boons are -really- nice). So if these runes do get swapped out, would a nice alt be Eagle or Scholar? I know ferocity will be a thing so this is crucial. Btw, all armor for this build is zerk while trinkets is mostly knights with some soldiers.

Put superior sigil of purity and generosity on

Thanks for the replies guys, ultimate I’m going to have to seete changes forthcoming before finalizing this, but I’ll take this into consideration, especially food.
@Caveman shadowstep is indeed a nice stun breaker but I will not hesitate to use it if I have to cure a fatal condition immediately, even IR has a cast time which I’ve seen actually make a huge difference, so my go to stun break for this build is RFI first as priority, then shadowstep

RFI is nice don’t get me wrong . i love it because it is nice not to ground target and move back instantly
but i can’t say it is the safest choice when i have had it cancel out on me mid evade.

i wish RFI would work all the time. i don’t know y it gets canceled out mid evade sometimes????

RFI is not just “nice”, it is freaking amazing. Stunbreaker, auto-evade, instant cast, cleans mobility-impairing conditions, restores init, bakes cookies. For everyday use, it is the clearly superior choice over Shadowstep for stuffing control effects.

It can “fail” in the circumstance where it takes you into an effect that you cannot evade, like Static field from a staff Elementalist. This is why I said you only want to use SS as your breaker when in “dire straits”, like if you just got smashed by the Hammer Train and you’re surrounded by nonsense. In that case, feel free to use SS to make a quick exit from the premises.

But that weird edge case is NOT a reason to use SS over RFI for stun-breaking purposes. Shadowstep is for condition removal and mobility first; the stun-break on it is for emergency use only as an S/D Thief.

Stop spreading baloney. S/D is hard enough to play without handicapping yourself by making lousy decisions about utility use.

ya right … i would not call RFI amazing. compared to shadow step …

RFI is the lazy mans SS …4 people who do not care to use mouse control in a fight.

mouse control is king

caveman.5840:

ya right … i would not call RFI amazing. compared to shadow step …

RFI is the lazy mans SS …4 people who do not care to use mouse control in a fight.

mouse control is king

Spare us the “lazy man” bravado. The smart Thief is the one who uses the best tool for the job, not the one who goes Hard Mode™ in exchange for zero tactical advantage.

RFI is objectively better than SS as the first-option stunbreaker for the cleanse constrained S/D Thief. If you disagree, come up with an argument for it, instead of random insults for the people who called you out.

the smart thief uses the mouse……. mouse control is king ,,,,
one hand to fight .
one hand on mouse for movement
u can dodge so many attacks with just a lil mouse control.
u need a key board set up that works for u .
there is no imparment only improvement.

and yes i would call it the lazy mans…
because i hate to use my mouse . even though i can do better with it
it takes more work than just using my keyboard as a big xbox controller lol

but u can do a lot with a lil mouse control

I’m switching my Lyssa runes to Traveler runes, but I run D/P, so I don’t have the swiftness on dodge like a S/D acro thief does.

caveman.5840:

the smart thief uses the mouse…….

You’re preaching to the preacher. I’ve been using K&M since before Guild Wars 2 even existed as a concept, and keep Steal/Dodge/breaker mapped to side buttons for ease of access. It has nothing to do with anything in this thread. No matter what your setup is, RFI is always going to be faster, because instant beats ground-targeting every time.

I’ll assume that since you’re spouting nonsense and changing the subject, that you’ve decided to concede the point about RFI.

if u use k&M how do u not see how much better SS is over simple old RFI…

if u use K&M all u need to do is press a button to go to the place u want .
with insta cast there is not that big a dif if u actively use your mouse .

no one can say a thing in these forums with out interceptor taking the opposite side.
i am not getting off subject because lyssa is the way to go for S/D. specially if your worried about conditions and don’t want to go in to shadow arts.

telling people to use Saffron-scented Poultry Soup …. u need more than that ….
u where the one who changed the conversation from shadow step to Roll For Initiative!

Shadow step and Roll for initiative are both useful but when it comes to picking a utility it comes down to how you intend to play, how your build is designed to react to a scenario.

If it’s escape or disengage and re-engage after some recovery, take shadow step. It moves you 1.2k units away, breaks a stun and provides a return point. If you’re fighting in a particular area which requires high mobility or precision mobility, it’s shadow step hands down because you can better control where you end up, and you can also scale terrain with it.

If, however, you mean to quickly get back up and get back in there, it’s roll for initiative by far, because it cures mobility impairments and restores some initiative enabling you to quickly re-engage and with resources to execute initiative-costing abilities to keep up the pressure. It’s at least twice as fast to execute than shadow step, and while it doesn’t put you way out of harm’s way, it does move you off a good distance, and you’re evading while moving so little risk of getting damaged during the process. It can be aimed while moving and you can use it to essentially roll forward if you use about-face before casting. Plus, in the middle of a fight, roll for initiative looks cooler.

When you break it down like that, all the main points for taking shadow step are if you intend to have greater mobility, while roll for initiative is for quick recovery and getting back to business. So while I disagree that someone would be wrong to use shadow step as a stun break, and that it is primarily a condition cleanse and for mobility, I have to agree that shadow step is best suited when paying concern to mobility, and that roll for initiative is better when all you intend is to get rid of that stun so you can keep at it.

caveman.5840:

if u use k&M how do u not see how much better SS is over simple old RFI…

Because I know how to do math. RFI’s worst case scenario is instant cast. SS’s worst case scenario is longer than instant, because you are using your mouse for other things in combat, and the geography of ground-target is not always going to cooperate. It’s not like Infiltrator’s Signet or Steal, which you can safely use without a real target.

Average case of SS is always going to be slower, as a result.

Never mind that the casting time isn’t even the only reason to use RFI first. There are other synergies and effects that have nothing to do with stunbreaking, that will still make you want to use RFI first.

i am not getting off subject because lyssa is the way to go for S/D. specially if your worried about conditions and don’t want to go in to shadow arts.

Lyssa is the way to go until April 15th, at which point it gets a lot murkier. Without the omni-removal and all boons, other rune sets start looking a lot better by comparison. You give up a lot of damage by going Lyssa with S/D: Precision is the worst DPS stat, and S/D with heavy Acrobatics/Trickery isn’t an on-crit build that you can leverage on the other end.

Fact of the matter is, if you can approximate the condition removal of new Lyssa (which you can do with condi food and Shadowstep), and live with the leftover gap, there may be some good alternative options when the dust settles.

That’s the topic of this thread, a topic that you’re basically ignoring.

telling people to use Saffron-scented Poultry Soup …. u need more than that ….

Yeah, like Shadow’s Embrace, RFI, Withdraw, Shadowstep, and Infiltrator’s Strike. All things that the OP has, if one bothered to look at his build.

Impact.2780:

Shadow step and Roll for initiative are both useful but when it comes to picking a utility it comes down to how you intend to play, how your build is designed to react to a scenario.

Or you just take them both, like the OP does.

The nerf doesn’t seem like a nerf to the condi clear to me. Rarely do I have more than 5 conditions on me at a time (I mean, unless I get spited, of course). As far as condi clear goes, I think Lyssa will remain viable.

Rather, the nerf is that you’re not guaranteed aegis/stability anymore (along with some of the other buffs). That’s a major defensive loss.

Interceptor.2653:

Impact.2780:

Shadow step and Roll for initiative are both useful but when it comes to picking a utility it comes down to how you intend to play, how your build is designed to react to a scenario.

Or you just take them both, like the OP does.

Alas, I was adding to the feud between you and caveman, the nature of which implied taking both was out of the question and that a choice had to be made between the two.

lol i like viking joruns idea of using both XD..
i never said taking both where out of the question… lol i like that idea

but i can’t say

RFI “clearly superior choice over Shadowstep for stuffing control effects”
because it is not true …

RFI has its place ….the +6 initiative is really nice …. i am not saying it is bad …
i just can’t say it is clearly the superior choice over SS.. i guess it is a personal preference

i like mouse control quick cool downs and real condition clear .

RFI . easy to use +6 initiative…
not really going to count the cripple clear imoblize or chill remove
because u can get that from withdrawal with a shorter cool down

R4I better than SS???
Aprils fool day is end.

SS>>R41 because:
SS its instant, so you can use it while casting Shadow embrace, or stomping.
SS has condition removal, R41 too, but only the conditions that withdraw cleans… when u are burning, bleeding, tormented, and crippled, chilled, rooted, just withdraw or SE+SS.
whit SS u can do fast move and z-axis movement.
SS works good for zerg surfing, SS, burst combo, SR.
You can do SS without fear in EoTM, R4I in a cliff map its the BEST way of get a premature dead.

(in sPvP, SS>>>>>>>>>R4I)

Impact.2780:

Alas, I was adding to the feud between you and caveman, the nature of which implied taking both was out of the question and that a choice had to be made between the two.

He might have implied it; I did not. This thread has always been about condition removal options for an S/D Lyssa Thief in a post-4/15 world. While RFI vs. SS may take other forms with different specs, in this particular situation you will have both, and RFI is almost always going to be your first-option stunbreaker because of what it brings to the table (and what it does not).

This is an absurdly straight-forward concept, and every S/D Thief in the post-12/10 universe knows exactly what sort of pressures that conditions pose, so it’s not entirely clear to me why there’s any confusion about the order of operations here.

Interceptor.2653:

He might have implied it; I did not. This thread has always been about condition removal options for an S/D Lyssa Thief in a post-4/15 world. While RFI vs. SS may take other forms with different specs, in this particular situation you will have both, and RFI is almost always going to be your first-option stunbreaker because of what it brings to the table (and what it does not).

This is an absurdly straight-forward concept, and every S/D Thief in the post-12/10 universe knows exactly what sort of pressures that conditions pose, so it’s not entirely clear to me why there’s any confusion about the order of operations here.

He implied it, and you debated with him on the same premise, otherwise you’d have simply dismissed him by stating “both are being used” much earlier. If you want to try and get into it with me after essentially agreeing with the same line of reasoning you among others were expressing, it won’t look very good.

Impact.2780:

He implied it, and you debated with him on the same premise, otherwise you’d have simply dismissed him by stating “both are being used” much earlier.

I am not responsible for his logic or reasoning, or for your inferences. I’ve been clear about the role of Shadowstep all along. Not a single post of mine in this thread has been edited, so feel free to peruse at your leisure.

Interceptor.2653:

I am not responsible for his logic or reasoning, or for your inferences. I’ve been clear about the role of Shadowstep all along. Not a single post of mine in this thread has been edited, so feel free to peruse at your leisure.

So why exactly are you getting defensive? You’re fighting air here. Clearly state what it was in my little addition that you disagree with, so I can reply for a reason other than not to appear rude.

Impact.2780:

So why exactly are you getting defensive? You’re fighting air here. Clearly state what it was in my little addition that you disagree with, so I can reply for a reason other than not to appear rude.

It’s a treatise on SS vs. RFI, in a thread where that wasn’t even being debated in the first place. For kitten’s sake, the OP was very specific about his utility set: he uses both. It was never in question or ambiguous. So to recap:

1. Didn’t make an argument in context, and
2. Accused me of implying something that I did not.

Where am I permitted to get annoyed with you, exactly? Do I need to wait for some kind of karate move, before it’s socially acceptable to respond?

Interceptor.2653:

It’s a treatise on SS vs. RFI, in a thread where that wasn’t even being debated in the first place. For kitten’s sake, the OP was very specific about his utility set: he uses both. It was never in question or ambiguous. So to recap:

1. Didn’t make an argument in context, and
2. Accused me of implying something that I did not.

Where am I permitted to get annoyed with you, exactly? Do I need to wait for some kind of karate move, before it’s socially acceptable to respond?

I stated that the nature of the discussion implied something, which indeed it does because as you have pointed out, “which is better?” is not the original topic, but it was the topic of that discussion. Now, you were clearly participating in that conversation. You could, following the reasoning that a conversation is defined by its participants, claim that anything implied by its nature is therefore implied in part or in full by its participants, and that my inference from that conversation was therefore in part or in full, from you. So yes, you could say I accused you of implying something, but what does that really accomplish? It doesn’t address the accusation, it merely beats about the bush to state that it happened. Followed by a contradiction of “I did not” doesn’t accomplish anything either. It’s not an argument, and it does nothing to refute the logic or the evidence which, despite it speaking for itself, I have typed up in this paragraph.

Yes yes, I’m aware of the original topic, you are aware of the original topic, throw it around all you want; we couldn’t be more aware. There must be a reason for this reminder though. It doesn’t change the discussion you had with caveman, which was what I was responding to. So why do you feel the need to point out what the original topic was? I genuinely don’t see it.

Anyway, my initial impression was rather negative, and I don’t like assuming negatively. That was why I inquired further – for clarification. I don’t appreciate the adoption of a pompous attitude approaching troll-like for my giving you the benefit of the doubt. What you’re basically saying is that you’re allowed to have a discussion on which of the two skills is better – which is off-topic, I know – but when someone else comes along and adds to the debate, they are to be reminded of the original topic and treated as hostile. Now I’m all for a arguing a point, but there has to actually be a point. “Because this guy just wants to participate in conflict for the sake of it” doesn’t count. It leads to non-constructive remarks and inconsistencies, inevitably entering all parties into a circle. I.E it is time spent for no gain – time wasted.

So, do you have a point?

Okay, once again. I thank you all for your input. as it stands, if the condi-removal can be achieved via other means, I shall drop Lyssa for more DPS oriented runes.

To clear up everyone’s name: caveman must have been under the false impression that I rely on Shadow Step to cure condition. Let me make the claim that this is not true. I have Cloak and Dagger and IR before I’ll need SS, and even then I may use Blinding Powder first, but you are right, SS does have superior mobility and is a double stun break, making if better than RFI for other builds not this one. It is because it cures conditions is why Interceptor is making a valid point. S/D may have an easy time avoiding physical damage, but condition damage can eat you alive. If I use SS as my immediate stun break, I don’t know what nasty condition may come at me next. I should’ve added, Pain Response is another trait I sometimes put into this build.

Impact was just expressing his beliefs and trying to establish a medium between the debate vs RFI and SS, that was all he was doing, Interceptor probably got defensive since he tried telling caveman that the thread was going off topic (and trying to explain why RFI was the better stun break for this build) with that discussion yet someone else tried to “revive” the discussion causing the thread to derail further, and I should add, both are very good and I have both guys..

Edit now that post-patch, I mean there is no edit but..had to rebump

The new Sigil of Purity is looking good for the S/D Thief. It’s on-hit rather than on-crit now, and doesn’t go on cooldown unless it actually removes a condition.

Interceptor.2653:

The new Sigil of Purity is looking good for the S/D Thief. It’s on-hit rather than on-crit now, and doesn’t go on cooldown unless it actually removes a condition.

That is looking mighty fine, which alleviates some pressure, psuedo omni heal every 45 seconds or pseudo constant heal every 10 seconds (?). So runes I was thinking power based like scholar, would you think that would be good or stick with Lysaa? Eagle look nice but this build doesnt focus on crits via chance or power, although those Lyssas give it a 40% chance

Rune of Strength is probably a better workhorse power set. You’ve got 65% Might duration with 20 Acrobatics, and the +7% bonus from the #6 slot is easier to maintain than the 10% from Scholar’s. Eagle also seems good. Lyssa remains usable, mostly because of the #4 slot.

I am actually kind of intrigued by the new Rune of the Water set, though not for this specific build (where you need damage).

Interceptor.2653:

Rune of Strength is probably a better workhorse power set. You’ve got 65% Might duration with 20 Acrobatics, and the +7% bonus from the #6 slot is easier to maintain than the 10% from Scholar’s. Eagle also seems good. Lyssa remains usable, mostly because of the #4 slot.

I am actually kind of intrigued by the new Rune of the Water set, though not for this specific build (where you need damage).

I see, yeah a couple of runes look interesting now, but as for now Ill do some number scrunching, thanks for the help

Dont really know, but what about mesmer runes paired with a Sigil of Paralyzation now? Will be a nice +63% daze duration. Could be quite annoying to play against i guess. Mace Head Crack would be a 6 and a half sec daze:O