Guild Wars 2

Hello all !

I was watching the twitch of Sizer and the one of Atrastea (they’re running the same build) and I have seen that those guys are able to beat builds I can’t even imagine beating … Like engi condi, necro condi, dps guard etc …

So my question is the next one : am I forced to play this build ? or Should I practice more on my d/p to beat those builds ? Is it even possible on d/p to beat a condi enginer ?

Ty all for your future answers and sorry for my english, I’m French …

The sizer build is the most effective one on thief at the moment. Then you can be succesfull with other build as well, depends on your skills

You are not forced.

Play what fit’s your personal play style, you would be surprised at how many other players can beat all of these “popular” players. The build/class does not make the player, the player makes the build/class.

Sizer is really good at S/D. He says it’s his favorite build to play.

But that doesn’t mean it’s good for everyone. Frankly, most Thieves I see in tPvP would be better served running a different build. But most people like to follow, rather than think for themselves.

2/0/0/6/6 works well for a particular guy in a particular scenario, his team. That doesn’t make it the best build for all Thieves.

I tried it, I can see it’s worth, but I have found a Power-based Pistol Whip build to be much more effective and useful than any S/D build. Thieves excel at two things, fast roaming and bursting down targets. And Pistol Whip does that better than any other build (even after the nerf).

It’s not great in duels, it doesn’t make you appear super-skilled in a video, but it gets results and it does so faster and more effectively than most S/D build could ever hope to achieve.

^

Just play what you like and get good at that. Remember that putting on someone elses shoes does not make you good.

Also my eye twitches every single time someone says 2/0/0/6/6 is Sizers build.

If you play Sizer’s build, that definitely makes you as good as Sizer.

D:

Yea, I know people are trying to copy Sizer etc . But it’s not what I mean guys. The 20066 build is the safest build of all. My question is, if I want to stay competitive in hight lvl of pvp, am I forced to go in a safe build like this ? Cause the 26006 d/p is a ton of fun for me but i’m melting against conditions … And I see more and more conditions builds in solo q …

26006 s/p is also a good alternative if you don’t like s/d.
unfortunately dagger mainhand relies at least partially on bs for damage
which requires stealth and that’s mostly a no-go for conquest.

@ panicbutton: we know sizer didn’t come up with it but i don’t even know the
name of this other guy. plus sizer made the build popular and everybody here knows immediatly it’s a 20066 s/d if you say ‘sizers build’.

I’ve been experimenting on a power P/D and the output in tournaments is really something. Still experimenting and i do some errors but i’m learning.

I know that S/D is in a good spot right now but most of the thieves are running and the “fun” is lost somehow. You are not forced to play any build, you have to consider what your good at, what’s your playstyle and if its good for your purpose (WvW, tPvP, PvE).

Sizer’s build is an ‘evade tank’, it’s got a lot of evades that provide a lot of sustain. It also offers perma vigor. Between signet of agility, feline grace, and perma vigor you can literally dodge 6 times in a row. On top of that you have evades from flanking strike and withdraw. You also can evade via teleports. You have Slight of Hand too, and basi venom, for 2 interrupst. You have 3000 more health than any non-acro thief build, it’s basically as close as it gets to a bunker thief.

Combine all the above defenses with with a Berserker’s amulet and you have a pretty rediculous build on paper (I think it could be tiered on the level of Soldier’s Strength Rune Hambow Warrior and Celestial Strength Rune D/D Ele). I think it’s the thief’s best build honestly, but choose not to run it because I feel like having that many dodges and evades with that much damage and mobility isn’t an intended playstyle, so I don’t want to get used to it only to have it nerfed in the future and feel like I was playing with a crutch.

Yea I feel the same way ! 20066 has an insane amount of dodges. I feel like I just have to randomly chain dodges and I’ll win … That’s why I don’t like this build, too safe for me. With the 26006 I have less dodges so I needto time my dodges, more fun for me. But the problem is I have the feeling that with all the condi builds against I can’t do anything, 20066 will be my only choice to being able to beat all builds… Am I wrong ?

Play every build. Find the one you like best and are the best at. Do not let others dictate the weapons or traits you should use. There no wrong way to have fun.

I think your mistaking a build from skill. Theres a reason why he is well known amongst gw2. I can guarantee that if it was sizer using a diff build it would be the same question. Imo the reason he chose s/d because like others have said its an evade build that is easy to learn but hard to master. And for those saying 20066 is sizers build are both wrong and correct he usually changes up a few traits and utilities every now and then

Isn’t 20066 Argy’s build? I’m confused

@Mystogan : I know Sizer is well known cause he is kitten good. But my point is, even if Sizer play the d/p 26006, how can we beat a condi engi with this build ? The thing is, I’m feeling forced to play this build not because it’s famous, not because Sizer’s playing it but because with the current meta, they’re builds against I can’t do anything with my d/p 26006.

I’m feeling forced to have the sustain of the 20066. Turret engi ==> run away. Condi engi ==> run away. Good necro condi ==> run away etc …

Why do you need to beat a Condi engi as a thief anyway?
You don’t bring a thief for 1v1 purposes.

Just play what you feel fits your play style.

I started in beta and I played d/d super backstab until it got nerfed to the ground because I enjoyed playing like a assassin, being mobile, and going in for quick bursts. I switched to d/p after because it was the same feeling as d/d. I played s/d before it was larcenous strike on #3 and tactical strike gave a 2s daze, and it was incredibly rewarding to play correctly until they nerfed that too. Finally, I switched to s/p when they finally fixed pistol whip flurry time. I’ve remained s/p since even through the +1 ini nerf , and do not plan to play s/d.

Reason being, I’ve tried the popular s/d for a while, and I just can’t get into it because I didn’t like how forgiving it was. To have that many dodges and evades feel incredibly broken. If you’ve fought against a s/d thief, you already know what I’m talking about. The second you try to burst them, they swap to shortbow and start chaining their dodges and evades like they are giving away candy. I cannot help but feel sour towards the build because it promotes laziness and lack of skill. I’m not saying that s/d thieves are bad in general, but it is WAY more forgiving to play than any other thief build because of the sheer amount of dodges and evades you can put out instantly just because you messed up your positioning and/or timing. Not to mention you can still get good bursts out of it because of the base damage of larcenous strike + might stacks / boons.

With s/p (26006), I have evades through pistol whip, which I cannot spam because of the 6 ini cost, and 2 dodges. That is all. Same concept with d/p.

Unfortunately, we are at a time where pvp is domincated by warriors with 25 stacks of might with soldier’s amulet and engis with their mindless spamming via turrets + burning, so acro s/d with a million dodges doesn’t seem too far fetched.

People will play what is the best for the meta, and that’s ok. I am not hating the players, but the way the current state of the game. It is unfortunate, but I still feel that it’s important to just play the game for fun, and not what you MUST play.

Taka.1264:

@Mystogan : I know Sizer is well known cause he is kitten good. But my point is, even if Sizer play the d/p 26006, how can we beat a condi engi with this build ? The thing is, I’m feeling forced to play this build not because it’s famous, not because Sizer’s playing it but because with the current meta, they’re builds against I can’t do anything with my d/p 26006.

I’m feeling forced to have the sustain of the 20066. Turret engi ==> run away. Condi engi ==> run away. Good necro condi ==> run away etc …

turret engis are tough for any thief build. if you jump in with s/d ur most likely dead. i use sb to widdle the engi down no matter what build I’m running i always keep sb to counter/kite melee and for sustain ranged dmg. I’m able to fight a turret engi with my 5/6/0/3/0 build quite well. i use s/d and sb off hand. as i said for turret engis i have to use sb mainly until he’s around half. you can do the same with d/p just use sb to fight and dodge.

the only problem i have with d/p is that it uses a small aoe blind and stealth for defense, both of which are countered by spvp and turret engis

I think the problem is that thieves normally think that they can beat anyone on 1v1 or that they can manage in a 1v1 situation. Not saying you are doing it and i dont know if you are good but normally average thieves in the processing of learning do not start 1v1 situations, simply because you loose your element of suprise.

When doing pvp, i want to be the guy that they don’t realize that im there. Allways running around and see group fights and then i choose my target, put him down and move to another. If i start being the center of attention i try to leave or go to stealth, but that’s me who’s still learning and can’t bring someone down in 2/3 hits. Maybe because of the build.

I’ve been seing that condition turret engis can go down pretty well with condition or like Mystogan said

Idk who made the build I don’t really think anyone does tbh. But people think whoever made the build popular made it, which can be true but idk about this build.

Who is sizer /15chars

Guys, thanks to you all, I now know my problem !! Thanks you !!

I was confusing pvp and duelling. Yea Enzo, I play the same ways in my solo/team q, I roam.

But when I was watching Sizer or Atrastea, both go into duelling area between their solo q. In fact they use the same build in duelling and in pvp.

So I was like “ok, I need to practice” and I went in a duelling area with my d/p 26006.

I thought I was not a super skilled thief, but above average (cause I won most of my 1vs1 against other thieves in solo q) BUT when I started duelling, people just destroyed me.

At this point I was like “I suck in fact”. First, I fought against a mesmer s/s + Staff (tanky, phantasm mesmer). Then against Cruuk (he was running sa), then against another thief (p/d venom ==> condi burst).

Finally I realised everyone in duelling was running the safest build of all, noone is running glassy. I’ve looked at the gambling server and it was ridiculous : a cele d/d ele and a war shout healer weren’t able to kill each other for about 5 mins of fight, what kind of joke is that ?

That’s my problem : I can’t duel with my 26006 cause it’s too glassy and I loose against everyone (skilled) who is runing a tanky/condi burst …

The build dosn’t make the player.It is the player who maximize his skills through the build.

^ just like how d/p was so popular before that with yishis and sizer

@OP: You are not forced to play it. People just tend to follow the best players. Sizer is probably considered the best S/D thief, and so people just follow whatever build he uses. If he switched his build, that would then become the new “must-use” build.

It is the same thing when everyone was running the old caed D/P. Was it the best D/P build? Maybe, but it was mostly popular because the best players started running it/

There are several very viable builds for Thief.

S/D
S/P
D/P
D/D

The above with a mix of traits.

I still prefer the 2/6/0/0/6 variant on s/d, so no you’re not forced to play sizers/arganthiums build (or whoever made it, does it matter?). play what you want

2/x/x/x/6 relies heavy on hitting your steal, if you fail at that every other build ot there is better for your play.

The main reason why ppl switched from 2/6/0/6/0 to 2/6/0/0/6 lies in the strengh runes and everyone running around with it .

Ripping boons of using Strength runes yourself will keep you at a very high amount of might stacks all the time.

But this build is a lot more vulnerable to conditions, cause you dont have pain response , you also lose your 3rd dodge and you normally dont play it with lysaa runes , so you lose this condi cleanse as well.

I would say, you are not forced into any specc at all, you should take a look what professions are in the nmy team and then decide on your own spec + runes / sigils .

lvis.3824:

2/x/x/x/6 relies heavy on hitting your steal, if you fail at that every other build ot there is better for your play.

The main reason why ppl switched from 2/6/0/6/0 to 2/6/0/0/6 lies in the strengh runes and everyone running around with it .

Ripping boons of using Strength runes yourself will keep you at a very high amount of might stacks all the time.

But this build is a lot more vulnerable to conditions, cause you dont have pain response , you also lose your 3rd dodge and you normally dont play it with lysaa runes , so you lose this condi cleanse as well.

I would say, you are not forced into any specc at all, you should take a look what professions are in the nmy team and then decide on your own spec + runes / sigils .

Actually the reason for 2xxx6 is because sleight of hand is one of our best traits since buff. Ripping boons can already be achieved by s/d by default and just 4 into trickery would give you bountiful theft.

Sleight of hand = much more frequent steal rate and a on-demand daze which almost works as a stunbreak vs 1v1 bursts. It so happen to work amazingly with bountiful theft to deny stability stomps and/or steal stab for your teammate to stomp with.