Guild Wars 2

This is what my current condition build is at.

I am currently enjoying this build more than my d/d signet build as it allows me to watch my enemies bleed/torment themselves to death without worrying about melee bursts melting my fragile body. :O

Initiative usage is low so I don’t trait for it but it causes this build to be a little trolly while in p/d. I have found out that with Shadow Strike, positioning is awesome as well as slightly disorienting. That doesn’t stop me from running through my enemies pressing 3 and then watch them for that split second while they get a visual relock on me.

Sometimes they say fk it and switch to ranged combat. THAT is when I start using stealth. Sometimes when I do that they believe that I am going to backstab them (on a condition build?) so they back up/freeze/something. Suddenly they are covered in a double layer of caltrops and dodge out of it. That’s when I go in for my backsta-SNEAK ATTACK!

My favorite part about this build is when those who pull out their ranged weaponry start backing up. I like to lay on the torment so take advantage of their backpedaling.

I havn’t tried it out on multiple mobs or small groups, yet. I’m still practicing with 1v1.

Stun break not needed?

I don’t get hit enough.

That’s hilarious, because it’s probably our most predictable set. Well, other than possibly P/P (zomgthatthiefhastwogunsRETALIATION!). Still, I love it for being an almost melee-ranged set. All the fun of the melee dance, with none of the pain that comes with having to stand there for more than a single attack. It’s my favorite range on any profession I play.

Clockwork Bard.3105:

That’s hilarious, because it’s probably our most predictable set. Well, other than possibly P/P (zomgthatthiefhastwogunsRETALIATION!). Still, I love it for being an almost melee-ranged set. All the fun of the melee dance, with none of the pain that comes with having to stand there for more than a single attack. It’s my favorite range on any profession I play.

If you use Shadow Refuge and then use Dagger Storm before the refuge goes away, it makes leeching bolts that heal 170. I havn’t tested to see if it is exactly like spin2win though.

How would this build do if armour was switched to Carrion for the power over precision?

zach….use sneak attack in shadow refuge…not daggerstorm. its almost guaranteed 10-12 hits before it ends or whatever. daggerstorm is only gonna hit that much if you have 10 people around.

and be careful u are goign to get alot of trolls now. everytime i see a p/d post i see the same few coming in here hating on it. “noob build” “no effectivity” “horrible” " you suck" :P show a video and ull see.

oh … why not drop exposed weakness for sleight of hand?

Xavi.6591:

How would this build do if armour was switched to Carrion for the power over precision?

You could try it and see. I don’t really feel comfortable unless my toughness and vitality are over 1400 so I never really try it.

I should slap you for putting 25 into deadly arts in a non-venom build.
Getting 25 deadly arts and grabbing garbage traits just for the condition duration is simply a waste of trait points.

Also, durations boni are capped at 100%, so stacking that much cond. duration(20% weapons, 25% traits, 40% food) = 85% +45% from bleed runes, 10% from Agony = 140% bleed duration) is just unnecessary.
Drop the points in DA(-25%): +60% cond duration.
Swap out one Bleed rune for Lyssa: +70% cond duration.
Remaining +Bleed duration from bleed runes: +30% bleed duration.
Drop Sigil of Agony for something else
=100% bleed, 70% cond. with 25 trait points ready to be dropped into defensive traits.

Travlane.5948:

zach….use sneak attack in shadow refuge…not daggerstorm. its almost guaranteed 10-12 hits before it ends or whatever. daggerstorm is only gonna hit that much if you have 10 people around.

and be careful u are goign to get alot of trolls now. everytime i see a p/d post i see the same few coming in here hating on it. “noob build” “no effectivity” “horrible” " you suck" :P show a video and ull see.

Trav, you are a bit behind the times. Condi builds have been the new meta for a while (long before you made your “best WvW post”). The forums lag behind the “next big thing” type of builds, usually by quite a while. The recent P/D #3 buff just forced the issue. If anything, we all agree that P/D and D/D condi builds have a place, everyone just has different opinions about the armor.

Personally, I wouldn’t use rabid armor. I’d split it between carrion/shaman/apoth. For trinkets, the ascended unnamed/rabid are probably the best pure condition build items we have access to, with only 18 wasted stats in precision.

Still, build looks fun!

Zacchary.6183:

Clockwork Bard.3105:

That’s hilarious, because it’s probably our most predictable set. Well, other than possibly P/P (zomgthatthiefhastwogunsRETALIATION!). Still, I love it for being an almost melee-ranged set. All the fun of the melee dance, with none of the pain that comes with having to stand there for more than a single attack. It’s my favorite range on any profession I play.

If you use Shadow Refuge and then use Dagger Storm before the refuge goes away, it makes leeching bolts that heal 170. I havn’t tested to see if it is exactly like spin2win though.

I find myself really reluctant to use Dagger Storm. In both PvE and PvP, it seems to draw a lot of attention my way and going 8 seconds without dodging gives me a mild panic attack. The exception is when wandering with my ranger friend. We’ll spin on that Healing Spring for days.

naphack.9346:

I should slap you for putting 25 into deadly arts in a non-venom build.
Getting 25 deadly arts and grabbing garbage traits just for the condition duration is simply a waste of trait points.

Also, durations boni are capped at 100%, so stacking that much cond. duration(20% weapons, 25% traits, 40% food) = 85% +45% from bleed runes, 10% from Agony = 140% bleed duration) is just unnecessary.
Drop the points in DA(-25%): +60% cond duration.
Swap out one Bleed rune for Lyssa: +70% cond duration.
Remaining +Bleed duration from bleed runes: +30% bleed duration.
Drop Sigil of Agony for something else
=100% bleed, 70% cond. with 25 trait points ready to be dropped into defensive traits.

I hope you also understand that I don’t play thief like anyone on this forum. Back Fighting might look like a garbage trait but it has saved me from Defeated numerous times in the past. Downing someone while Downed yourself makes you Rally which often leads to a win and Back Fighting makes it happen faster.

I will however look at bleeding duration. Understand, though, that I put the food there for looks. I consider food as a crutch and refuse to use it. :P

Travlane.5948:

oh … why not drop exposed weakness for sleight of hand?

I don’t use steal but I have looked at them when I was making the beta. I figured that if I wasn’t planning on using steal that I could add some raw power in the mix.

Travlane.5948:

zach….use sneak attack in shadow refuge…not daggerstorm. its almost guaranteed 10-12 hits before it ends or whatever. daggerstorm is only gonna hit that much if you have 10 people around.

and be careful u are goign to get alot of trolls now. everytime i see a p/d post i see the same few coming in here hating on it. “noob build” “no effectivity” “horrible” " you suck" :P show a video and ull see.

Dagger storm depends on proximity. If you stand inside of your enemy or right next to them it’s guaranteed to hit 8 times with no other targets around. That number is doubled for each enemy around you and you also have a missile reflect.

However, thieves’ guild is still OP as kitten, and if you aren’t running Signet of Malice or zerging you should probably just opt for Thieves Guild.

@OP

First of all, you should only go for Condition Duration if the condition is non-damage condition, like Vulnerability. You suffer the loss of damage if your conditions are cut short due to condition duration reduction and condition removals.

Second, compare your build to this one (my modified version of your build);
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlcmKPXay5E+JFBXBn6z4riVnBNfZXhrC-jwyAYtBRTLApKQUBYKBQKsIasVzioxqkDkmBTlqU7RWWtUAQsGA-e

In this build,
- my Bleed duration is shorter but ticks for 109.6dmg/sec (looking at Caltrops)
- Your build ticks for 106.9dmg/sec

- my Vital shot deals 112.5dmg/sec
- Your Vital shot deals 104.8dmg/sec

- my Torment deals 87.9dmg/sec
- Your Torment deals 80.75dmg/sec

So if your duration is shortened, you’re total condition damage is crippled.

naphack.9346:

I should slap you for putting 25 into deadly arts in a non-venom build.
Getting 25 deadly arts and grabbing garbage traits just for the condition duration is simply a waste of trait points.

This guy is no narrow-minded that he failed to see the +250 added to power spec-ing 25pts into DA.

I agree that the chosen major traits are awful, but I would keep 25pts into DA.

Your traits are fine, you just need to optimize your gears.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

@OP

First of all, you should only go for Condition Duration if the condition is non-damage condition, like Vulnerability. You suffer the loss of damage if your conditions are cut short due to condition duration reduction and condition removals.

Second, compare your build to this one (my modified version of your build);
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlcmKPXay5E+JFBXBn6z4riVnBNfZXhrC-jwyAYtBRTLApKQUBYKBQKsIasVzioxqkDkmBTlqU7RWWtUAQsGA-e

In this build,
- my Bleed duration is shorter but ticks for 109.6dmg/sec (looking at Caltrops)
- Your build ticks for 106.9dmg/sec

- my Vital shot deals 112.5dmg/sec
- Your Vital shot deals 104.8dmg/sec

- my Torment deals 87.9dmg/sec
- Your Torment deals 80.75dmg/sec

So if your duration is shortened, you’re total condition damage is crippled.

naphack.9346:

I should slap you for putting 25 into deadly arts in a non-venom build.
Getting 25 deadly arts and grabbing garbage traits just for the condition duration is simply a waste of trait points.

This guy is no narrow-minded that he failed to see the +250 added to power spec-ing 25pts into DA.

I agree that the chosen major traits are awful, but I would keep 25pts into DA.

Your traits are fine, you just need to optimize your gears.

Not true. Condition duration also benefits from traits that go something like, “+10% damage against bleeding foes”.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Not true. Condition duration also benefits from traits that go something like, “+10% damage against bleeding foes”.

Bleed is so easy to apply that even with 0% condition duration, you can still take advantage of that bonus in damage.

Again, if the condition deals damage, you want it shorter duration but potent.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Not true. Condition duration also benefits from traits that go something like, “+10% damage against bleeding foes”.

Bleed is so easy to apply that even with 0% condition duration, you can still take advantage of that bonus in damage.

Again, if the condition deals damage, you want it shorter duration but potent.

You don’t have to sacrifice one to get the other, though.

purgatoryz.6038:

Travlane.5948:

zach….use sneak attack in shadow refuge…not daggerstorm. its almost guaranteed 10-12 hits before it ends or whatever. daggerstorm is only gonna hit that much if you have 10 people around.

and be careful u are goign to get alot of trolls now. everytime i see a p/d post i see the same few coming in here hating on it. “noob build” “no effectivity” “horrible” " you suck" :P show a video and ull see.

Trav, you are a bit behind the times. Condi builds have been the new meta for a while (long before you made your “best WvW post”). The forums lag behind the “next big thing” type of builds, usually by quite a while. The recent P/D #3 buff just forced the issue. If anything, we all agree that P/D and D/D condi builds have a place, everyone just has different opinions about the armor.

Personally, I wouldn’t use rabid armor. I’d split it between carrion/shaman/apoth. For trinkets, the ascended unnamed/rabid are probably the best pure condition build items we have access to, with only 18 wasted stats in precision.

Still, build looks fun!

i have been playing d/p and p/d for about idk 6 months. :P idk how far behind the times i can get but yeah. i actually got the inspiration from wild bills first video who i talk to on occaison…i made his a lil more tanky by going 5 0 30 30 5 …where as he dropped the vitaltity for more power/killign capability. when i said ive been using p/d build for 2 weeks…i mean the unorthadox build 10 0 30 0 30 that i made and as viking jorun said the only thing that screams condi about this build is my carrion armor. now alot of peole are playing it :P scratches head

Sir Vincent III.1286:

@OP

First of all, you should only go for Condition Duration if the condition is non-damage condition, like Vulnerability. You suffer the loss of damage if your conditions are cut short due to condition duration reduction and condition removals.

Second, compare your build to this one (my modified version of your build);
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAqY4YlcmKPXay5E+JFBXBn6z4riVnBNfZXhrC-jwyAYtBRTLApKQUBYKBQKsIasVzioxqkDkmBTlqU7RWWtUAQsGA-e

In this build,
- my Bleed duration is shorter but ticks for 109.6dmg/sec (looking at Caltrops)
- Your build ticks for 106.9dmg/sec

- my Vital shot deals 112.5dmg/sec
- Your Vital shot deals 104.8dmg/sec

- my Torment deals 87.9dmg/sec
- Your Torment deals 80.75dmg/sec

So if your duration is shortened, you’re total condition damage is crippled.

naphack.9346:

I should slap you for putting 25 into deadly arts in a non-venom build.
Getting 25 deadly arts and grabbing garbage traits just for the condition duration is simply a waste of trait points.

This guy is no narrow-minded that he failed to see the +250 added to power spec-ing 25pts into DA.

I agree that the chosen major traits are awful, but I would keep 25pts into DA.

Your traits are fine, you just need to optimize your gears.

dont you think that higher duration = more time invis while conditions do dmg.

build 1 (condition dmg no duration) CND sneak attack….. CND sneak attack

build 2(condition dmg and duration) CND sneak attack CND CND CND sneak attack

so to speak

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Not true. Condition duration also benefits from traits that go something like, “+10% damage against bleeding foes”.

Bleed is so easy to apply that even with 0% condition duration, you can still take advantage of that bonus in damage.

Again, if the condition deals damage, you want it shorter duration but potent.

You don’t have to sacrifice one to get the other, though.

It’s not sacrificing if you don’t pick it up in the first place. If you are using raw damage with S/D, sure you want Condition Duration so that your Vulnerability will last longer. But if you are Condition Damage build with P/x…building Condition Duration is a waste. The +25% Condition duration from DA should be enough.

Travlane.5948:

dont you think that higher duration = more time invis while conditions do dmg.

build 1 (condition dmg no duration) CND sneak attack….. CND sneak attack

build 2(condition dmg and duration) CND sneak attack CND CND CND sneak attack

so to speak

It can also mean that if you don’t end the fight sooner, you are risking a chance that their skills will go out of CD and finish you off instead.

I admit, it makes me giggle seeing all the numbers like fountain off their head, but the longer the fight is, the worst it may turn out on you.

Zacchary.6183:

I don’t get hit enough.

I’m not sure I understand your build. On one hand you don’t get hit enough to need a stun breaker but on the other hand you get downed enough that you need back fighting. Something seems out of place there.

Edit: I also see you said you don’t use steal. Why??? It is easy way to get into stealth in combo with CnD.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Not true. Condition duration also benefits from traits that go something like, “+10% damage against bleeding foes”.

Bleed is so easy to apply that even with 0% condition duration, you can still take advantage of that bonus in damage.

Again, if the condition deals damage, you want it shorter duration but potent.

You don’t have to sacrifice one to get the other, though.

It’s not sacrificing if you don’t pick it up in the first place. If you are using raw damage with S/D, sure you want Condition Duration so that your Vulnerability will last longer. But if you are Condition Damage build with P/x…building Condition Duration is a waste. The +25% Condition duration from DA should be enough.

Travlane.5948:

dont you think that higher duration = more time invis while conditions do dmg.

build 1 (condition dmg no duration) CND sneak attack….. CND sneak attack

build 2(condition dmg and duration) CND sneak attack CND CND CND sneak attack

so to speak

It can also mean that if you don’t end the fight sooner, you are risking a chance that their skills will go out of CD and finish you off instead.

I admit, it makes me giggle seeing all the numbers like fountain off their head, but the longer the fight is, the worst it may turn out on you.

most duels i rarely end up using more than 2 utilities. trying to go to fast with condi can leave you without an ace up your sleeve too tho. idk the traits i saw him on dont really help that much and the power doesnt help the direct dmg too much either.

style.6173:

Zacchary.6183:

I don’t get hit enough.

I’m not sure I understand your build. On one hand you don’t get hit enough to need a stun breaker but on the other hand you get downed enough that you need back fighting. Something seems out of place there.

Edit: I also see you said you don’t use steal. Why??? It is easy way to get into stealth in combo with CnD.

Lol! I don’t NEED it. I am saying that it has helped me whenever I get downed. Rally is a powerful thing if you know what you are doing. Besides, you don’t lose until you are defeated.

As for my trait choices, I hate venoms so I am not planning on using IV, V and VIII. I don’t use steal because I just don’t like it so III and VII are out of the question. II is gone too because of traps. So all I am left with is I, VI, IX and X.

If I was going to using steal, though, I would definitely choose Improvisation and Mug. The benefits from those two outweigh the 50% of extra damage I deal in the downed state or pretty much every other trait available.

EDIT: <deleted>

Travlane.5948:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Not true. Condition duration also benefits from traits that go something like, “+10% damage against bleeding foes”.

Bleed is so easy to apply that even with 0% condition duration, you can still take advantage of that bonus in damage.

Again, if the condition deals damage, you want it shorter duration but potent.

You don’t have to sacrifice one to get the other, though.

It’s not sacrificing if you don’t pick it up in the first place. If you are using raw damage with S/D, sure you want Condition Duration so that your Vulnerability will last longer. But if you are Condition Damage build with P/x…building Condition Duration is a waste. The +25% Condition duration from DA should be enough.

Travlane.5948:

dont you think that higher duration = more time invis while conditions do dmg.

build 1 (condition dmg no duration) CND sneak attack….. CND sneak attack

build 2(condition dmg and duration) CND sneak attack CND CND CND sneak attack

so to speak

It can also mean that if you don’t end the fight sooner, you are risking a chance that their skills will go out of CD and finish you off instead.

I admit, it makes me giggle seeing all the numbers like fountain off their head, but the longer the fight is, the worst it may turn out on you.

most duels i rarely end up using more than 2 utilities. trying to go to fast with condi can leave you without an ace up your sleeve too tho. idk the traits i saw him on dont really help that much and the power doesnt help the direct dmg too much either.

Having an ace up your sleeve implies that you have to cheat in order to win. What I am showing you is, if done correctly, there’s no need for the ace because it all comes down to tactics.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Travlane.5948:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Not true. Condition duration also benefits from traits that go something like, “+10% damage against bleeding foes”.

Bleed is so easy to apply that even with 0% condition duration, you can still take advantage of that bonus in damage.

Again, if the condition deals damage, you want it shorter duration but potent.

You don’t have to sacrifice one to get the other, though.

It’s not sacrificing if you don’t pick it up in the first place. If you are using raw damage with S/D, sure you want Condition Duration so that your Vulnerability will last longer. But if you are Condition Damage build with P/x…building Condition Duration is a waste. The +25% Condition duration from DA should be enough.

Travlane.5948:

dont you think that higher duration = more time invis while conditions do dmg.

build 1 (condition dmg no duration) CND sneak attack….. CND sneak attack

build 2(condition dmg and duration) CND sneak attack CND CND CND sneak attack

so to speak

It can also mean that if you don’t end the fight sooner, you are risking a chance that their skills will go out of CD and finish you off instead.

I admit, it makes me giggle seeing all the numbers like fountain off their head, but the longer the fight is, the worst it may turn out on you.

most duels i rarely end up using more than 2 utilities. trying to go to fast with condi can leave you without an ace up your sleeve too tho. idk the traits i saw him on dont really help that much and the power doesnt help the direct dmg too much either.

Having an ace up your sleeve implies that you have to cheat in order to win. What I am showing you is, if done correctly, there’s no need for the ace because it all comes down to tactics.

tehcnically having an ace DOES mean cheat. what im referring to is a last second save that is in a win lose scenario. blinding powder is a great instance. instant cast. blinds…invises….heals….drops condis.

I haven’t played in ages, but I just had to reply to this one! I just been playing again and noticed how bored I was with my thief. I remember starting out as a P/D thief and made myself the EXACT same build. I think I sometimes switched out some some skills depending on the situation, but this is pretty much the first build I ever played with.

After a while, I decided to try D/D because all my friends were saying how great it was. At that point condition builds weren’t as good as I hear they are now. So, eventhough I was destroying everything, I decided to switch to D/D atleast for a bit. Around this time however I finally got my tier 3 cultural and some extra cash from playing the market so I just bought gear for my current setup.

So because I had tier 3 cultural, I never bothered to go back, but I quickly grew tired of D/D. Now I’ve been saving up to switch back because I remember how much more fun this build was.

Long story short, you are right that this build is a lot of fun and I’m switching back to it

What I to do is use basilisk venom instead of dagger storm. I cast basilisk venom and then start casting caltrops and steal in. They get stunned in the middle of the caltrop field. I personally would never use this build without 30 in shadow arts but if it is working for you then who am I to judge. I use either a 10/0/30/30/0 or 10/0/30/0/30 and full carrion. The precision from rabid doesn’t fit the build all that much and you get plenty of toughness from SA tree.

The BIG problem on this pistol main hand is is only for single target, is total useless vs 2+

You should to try to use Riochet!

Piola.3782:

You should to try to use Riochet!

I thought I put it in there…. hold on.

EDIT:
=w= what is this trickery.

Shadowstrike is still not worth using in my opinion…

Cloak and dagger cost 6 ini, shadowstrike cost 4 ini. Cloak and Dagger gives 4 sec stealth and sneak attack with 5 bleeds. And in most builds stealth removes conditions and heal you and blinds your target.

Shadowstrike gives 2 torment stacks and teleports you away.. but anyone with range can keep on attacking you.

Can someone tell me why you use shadowstrike over cloak and dagger, to open my eyes to something i missed, because i just dont see how it can benefit you.

If you are immobilized, you can teleport away from a 100blades.
Also lower initiative cost and getting away from someone teleporting on top of you when you are still revealed(read: you sneak attack and he just ports on top of you to burst you down while you can’t cnd, so you shadowstrike away).

It’s more of a situational escape tool, so I don’t see the torment as that much of a buff…

naphack.9346:

If you are immobilized, you can teleport away from a 100blades.
Also lower initiative cost and getting away from someone teleporting on top of you when you are still revealed(read: you sneak attack and he just ports on top of you to burst you down while you can’t cnd, so you shadowstrike away).

It’s more of a situational escape tool, so I don’t see the torment as that much of a buff…

This is so true. It is definitely best as an escape. Adding torment was nice, but didn’t do a whole lot other than getting a lot of FotM thieves to try P/D.

It’s also fun to troll with it in PvE.

Rissou.7213:

Shadowstrike is still not worth using in my opinion…

Cloak and dagger cost 6 ini, shadowstrike cost 4 ini. Cloak and Dagger gives 4 sec stealth and sneak attack with 5 bleeds. And in most builds stealth removes conditions and heal you and blinds your target.

Shadowstrike gives 2 torment stacks and teleports you away.. but anyone with range can keep on attacking you.

Can someone tell me why you use shadowstrike over cloak and dagger, to open my eyes to something i missed, because i just dont see how it can benefit you.

Because diverse damaging conditions > all in bleed.

Zacchary.6183:

style.6173:

Zacchary.6183:

I don’t get hit enough.

I’m not sure I understand your build. On one hand you don’t get hit enough to need a stun breaker but on the other hand you get downed enough that you need back fighting. Something seems out of place there.

Edit: I also see you said you don’t use steal. Why??? It is easy way to get into stealth in combo with CnD.

Lol! I don’t NEED it. I am saying that it has helped me whenever I get downed. Rally is a powerful thing if you know what you are doing. Besides, you don’t lose until you are defeated.

As for my trait choices, I hate venoms so I am not planning on using IV, V and VIII. I don’t use steal because I just don’t like it so III and VII are out of the question. II is gone too because of traps. So all I am left with is I, VI, IX and X.

If I was going to using steal, though, I would definitely choose Improvisation and Mug. The benefits from those two outweigh the 50% of extra damage I deal in the downed state or pretty much every other trait available.

EDIT: A tactic I use in fights against more skilled players is when my opponent and I are low on HP I let them down me so I can hit them a few times with my downed attack and rally. Afterwards, I proceed to kill them. It works.

You don’t like venoms, traps, or stealing and you use a pistol? So, you are playing engineer then?

Zacchary.6183:

-snip-

EDIT: A tactic I use in fights against more skilled players is when my opponent and I are low on HP I let them down me so I can hit them a few times with my downed attack and rally. Afterwards, I proceed to kill them. It works.

Let me correct you here for clarity and other’s understanding. You cannot rally from downing someone. You must defeat them, or another creature/NPC to rally. Simply getting them down does not rally you. Don’t try this at home. You’ll likely die.

Test your build in one of these 1 v 1 servers, to see if it really can do stuff or not.

stof.9341:

Rissou.7213:

Shadowstrike is still not worth using in my opinion…

Cloak and dagger cost 6 ini, shadowstrike cost 4 ini. Cloak and Dagger gives 4 sec stealth and sneak attack with 5 bleeds. And in most builds stealth removes conditions and heal you and blinds your target.

Shadowstrike gives 2 torment stacks and teleports you away.. but anyone with range can keep on attacking you.

Can someone tell me why you use shadowstrike over cloak and dagger, to open my eyes to something i missed, because i just dont see how it can benefit you.

Because diverse damaging conditions > all in bleed.

Have to agree that Shadowstrike is still not worth using most of the time though. This build is all about staying in stealth as much as often as possible while still dps’ing. Atleast when I play it. I have a similar build and a lot of it is focused on healing/removing conditions when going stealthed so you can just keep fighting. That’s why so many utilities are also stealths. If you use cloack and dagger you can pretty much stay stealthed most of the time (depending on how you use and time your stealth cooldown).

There are some key differences with my build, but the idea seems to be the same and if the idea is the same cloack and dagger > shadowstrike

Rahar.9872:

Zacchary.6183:

-snip-

EDIT: A tactic I use in fights against more skilled players is when my opponent and I are low on HP I let them down me so I can hit them a few times with my downed attack and rally. Afterwards, I proceed to kill them. It works.

Let me correct you here for clarity and other’s understanding. You cannot rally from downing someone. You must defeat them, or another creature/NPC to rally. Simply getting them down does not rally you. Don’t try this at home. You’ll likely die.

I checked wiki to make sure and saw that it was changed on the 17th of last month. I remember being able to rally off of players I downed before then but I didn’t have the chance to try it for a few months. If they fixed it then that would suck but then again how often do people actually get to that point in fights? :I

Rissou.7213:

Shadowstrike is still not worth using in my opinion…

Cloak and dagger cost 6 ini, shadowstrike cost 4 ini. Cloak and Dagger gives 4 sec stealth and sneak attack with 5 bleeds. And in most builds stealth removes conditions and heal you and blinds your target.

Shadowstrike gives 2 torment stacks and teleports you away.. but anyone with range can keep on attacking you.

Can someone tell me why you use shadowstrike over cloak and dagger, to open my eyes to something i missed, because i just dont see how it can benefit you.

Those who use ranged tend to back up when you start meleeing them which is one of the reasons I have d/d as my second set. Its good for bleeds and I doubt people will stay in one spot to avoid taking damage from moving while I add more bleeds. Shadow Strike also is a good evade if you time it right.

Doug the Great.7581:

You don’t like venoms, traps, or stealing and you use a pistol? So, you are playing engineer then?

Thiefgineer. Its an alternative to stealth. They’ll never know whats coming to them. >:D

VS melee focused builds, shadow strike is great…they gap-close, you dodge back to cripple/bleed, then shadowstrike. They gap-close again, you do the same again. You can also dodge into them, and shadowstrike to confuse them. Either way, the warrior spends their time chasing while crippled and tormented, and you spend the time auto-attacking to apply bleeds and shadowstriking. Don’t need to be stealthed if you’re not taking damage. The harder part is when the warrior starts running away.

This is actually well balanced vs CnD, giving the P/D build two equivalent styles of play, and the ability to fluidly shift between or combine them. You can also do a condi-spike that is not possible with CnD alone: 5-dodge(caltrops)-1-3-steal (giving initiative)-3-infiltrator sig.-3 = 7-9 bleeds + 6 torments. Leaves you a bit exposed, but it’s a solid burst. Remember those torments are worth more than bleeds damage-wise (at 1500 condition dmg, it’s about 197 per stack, per tick, double while moving vs 117 bleeding dmg). Assuming your opponent is moving: 9 bleeds + 6 torments is (1057.5 + 1182 = 2240 per second if not moving or 3421.5 per second if moving). The base durations are 4 for bleeds and 5 for torment, so with some + duration gear, you could easily get it up to 7 and 8 seconds. That’s a total of 7402.5 + 18912 in 8 seconds…not to mention reapplied bleeds. Without condition clears, that’s a dead opponent.

Rissou.7213:

Shadowstrike is still not worth using in my opinion…

Cloak and dagger cost 6 ini, shadowstrike cost 4 ini. Cloak and Dagger gives 4 sec stealth and sneak attack with 5 bleeds. And in most builds stealth removes conditions and heal you and blinds your target.

Shadowstrike gives 2 torment stacks and teleports you away.. but anyone with range can keep on attacking you.

Can someone tell me why you use shadowstrike over cloak and dagger, to open my eyes to something i missed, because i just dont see how it can benefit you.

Stealth isn’t always the answer because I do tend to get hit a few times during alot of situations. Shadow strike is useful because it’s get you out of the immediate vicinity/out of AoEs and damage. Plus torment acts as a cover conditions against condition removal.

Doomdesire.9365:

Rissou.7213:

Shadowstrike is still not worth using in my opinion…

Cloak and dagger cost 6 ini, shadowstrike cost 4 ini. Cloak and Dagger gives 4 sec stealth and sneak attack with 5 bleeds. And in most builds stealth removes conditions and heal you and blinds your target.

Shadowstrike gives 2 torment stacks and teleports you away.. but anyone with range can keep on attacking you.

Can someone tell me why you use shadowstrike over cloak and dagger, to open my eyes to something i missed, because i just dont see how it can benefit you.

Stealth isn’t always the answer because I do tend to get hit a few times during alot of situations. Shadow strike is useful because it’s get you out of the immediate vicinity/out of AoEs and damage. Plus torment acts as a cover conditions against condition removal.

True, but it’s still not a staple skill and more situational than cloack and dagger

Zacchary.6183:

Rahar.9872:

Zacchary.6183:

-snip-

EDIT: A tactic I use in fights against more skilled players is when my opponent and I are low on HP I let them down me so I can hit them a few times with my downed attack and rally. Afterwards, I proceed to kill them. It works.

Let me correct you here for clarity and other’s understanding. You cannot rally from downing someone. You must defeat them, or another creature/NPC to rally. Simply getting them down does not rally you. Don’t try this at home. You’ll likely die.

I checked wiki to make sure and saw that it was changed on the 17th of last month. I remember being able to rally off of players I downed before then but I didn’t have the chance to try it for a few months. If they fixed it then that would suck but then again how often do people actually get to that point in fights? :I

You’ve always had to defeat another player, not down, it’s been this way since…..well ever. if you check the history for rally, you can see it states this way back when the page was first created.

panicbutton.1053:

Side question!!

I’m playing around with p/d and am maximizing the amount of times I can go stealth so I can bleed them as much/often as possible. I trait for steal to stealth me… and I’m having some problems.

In the middle of combat, most of the time when I steal -> stealth, I get revealed almost instantly. Same goes for blinding powder. Are our stealth mechanics funky or is there something I’m not aware of? o.O I don’t chain the stealth one after another -- I realize there is some kind of internal counter prevention on stealth.

That’s why I dropped Hidden Thief when I was playing around with a stealth spec. It would’ve been nice, since my thief is a Steal-machine. I also have problems with the stolen Gunk bundle. I typically throw it, CnD, then try to stack 5 confusion with Sneak Attack. 75% of the time, it works. The rest of the time, it seems the Gunk pulse is treated as an attack and breaks my stealth before I can fire.

The only real use I found for Hidden Thief was to combine it with Shadow Protector and Mug to turn Steal into a small heal + regen. But the Shadow Arts tree has too many good traits for me to dedicate it to just that one combo.

panicbutton.1053:

Side question!!

I’m playing around with p/d and am maximizing the amount of times I can go stealth so I can bleed them as much/often as possible. I trait for steal to stealth me… and I’m having some problems.

In the middle of combat, most of the time when I steal -> stealth, I get revealed almost instantly. Same goes for blinding powder. Are our stealth mechanics funky or is there something I’m not aware of? o.O I don’t chain the stealth one after another -- I realize there is some kind of internal counter prevention on stealth.

its funny you say this…… i made a post a few days ago about CND and such being buggy. blinding powder has always been like this and now it seems 10x worse. the only way know how to make this better atleast sometimes is to drop target then stop attacking then dodge roll then use blinding powder in the middle of it. that usually works for me. sad we have to do all that but yeah

Cloak and Dagger
Blinding Powder
Stealth on Steal
Hide in Shadows (more uncommon)

Clockwork Bard.3105:

panicbutton.1053:

Side question!!

I’m playing around with p/d and am maximizing the amount of times I can go stealth so I can bleed them as much/often as possible. I trait for steal to stealth me… and I’m having some problems.

In the middle of combat, most of the time when I steal -> stealth, I get revealed almost instantly. Same goes for blinding powder. Are our stealth mechanics funky or is there something I’m not aware of? o.O I don’t chain the stealth one after another -- I realize there is some kind of internal counter prevention on stealth.

That’s why I dropped Hidden Thief when I was playing around with a stealth spec. It would’ve been nice, since my thief is a Steal-machine. I also have problems with the stolen Gunk bundle. I typically throw it, CnD, then try to stack 5 confusion with Sneak Attack. 75% of the time, it works. The rest of the time, it seems the Gunk pulse is treated as an attack and breaks my stealth before I can fire.

The only real use I found for Hidden Thief was to combine it with Shadow Protector and Mug to turn Steal into a small heal + regen. But the Shadow Arts tree has too many good traits for me to dedicate it to just that one combo.

steal into an instant backstab ….thats what this is best for. long reach too if u can fit it in. but panic is talkin about a totally different problem than what you are addressing.

BobbyT.7192:

Zacchary.6183:

Rahar.9872:

Zacchary.6183:

-snip-

EDIT: A tactic I use in fights against more skilled players is when my opponent and I are low on HP I let them down me so I can hit them a few times with my downed attack and rally. Afterwards, I proceed to kill them. It works.

Let me correct you here for clarity and other’s understanding. You cannot rally from downing someone. You must defeat them, or another creature/NPC to rally. Simply getting them down does not rally you. Don’t try this at home. You’ll likely die.

I checked wiki to make sure and saw that it was changed on the 17th of last month. I remember being able to rally off of players I downed before then but I didn’t have the chance to try it for a few months. If they fixed it then that would suck but then again how often do people actually get to that point in fights? :I

You’ve always had to defeat another player, not down, it’s been this way since…..well ever. if you check the history for rally, you can see it states this way back when the page was first created.

I might have seen a bug then. I’ll get rid of it.

Travlane.5948:

Clockwork Bard.3105:

panicbutton.1053:

Side question!!

I’m playing around with p/d and am maximizing the amount of times I can go stealth so I can bleed them as much/often as possible. I trait for steal to stealth me… and I’m having some problems.

In the middle of combat, most of the time when I steal -> stealth, I get revealed almost instantly. Same goes for blinding powder. Are our stealth mechanics funky or is there something I’m not aware of? o.O I don’t chain the stealth one after another -- I realize there is some kind of internal counter prevention on stealth.

That’s why I dropped Hidden Thief when I was playing around with a stealth spec. It would’ve been nice, since my thief is a Steal-machine. I also have problems with the stolen Gunk bundle. I typically throw it, CnD, then try to stack 5 confusion with Sneak Attack. 75% of the time, it works. The rest of the time, it seems the Gunk pulse is treated as an attack and breaks my stealth before I can fire.

The only real use I found for Hidden Thief was to combine it with Shadow Protector and Mug to turn Steal into a small heal + regen. But the Shadow Arts tree has too many good traits for me to dedicate it to just that one combo.

steal into an instant backstab ….thats what this is best for. long reach too if u can fit it in. but panic is talkin about a totally different problem than what you are addressing.

I’m talking about stealth breaking immediately after I enter it. So is he. I’m not sure how that is different.

I only mentioned Shadow Protector as working with Hidden Thief, because it applies Regeneration the moment you enter stealth, and so it is not hindered by this problem.