Guild Wars 2

Call it QQ but I keep wondering about it and have now for months. Why does the class with the possibility to have consistent access stealth, and burst have the highest mobility in the game?

To me this seems inherently bad design. If a class has a strong escape mechanism through one route who should they have it through the other also. Because one doesn’t break the other doesn’t that cause an imbalance?

And before the “this is QQ”, “you probably got beat by thief” etc. That hasn’t happened in months. I am not bitter or angry or kitten over thieves. I personally love my thief but at the same time I find it hard to WvW due to this.

I am not saying thieves should be easy to catch, but I feel that it doesn’t make sense to give a class so much capability to escape and gap closers without some sort of way to balance it vs other classes incapability to do the same.

To clarify no I do not think mobility or stealth should be nerfed. This class has seen enough nerfs. That being said I think there is a balance issue with this.

joining the OP’s fail thread, sustaining his cause for a new thief nerf
HS jumpin 50 units and 50% damage reduction
or/and
BS reduced by 75%
also
shadowstep CD increased to 99 seconds and teleporting range reduced to 100 units

TheGuy.3568:

I am not saying thieves should be easy to catch, but I feel that it doesn’t make sense to give a class so much capability to escape and gap closers without some sort of way to balance it vs other classes incapability to do the same.

To clarify no I do not think mobility or stealth should be nerfed. This class has seen enough nerfs. That being said I think there is a balance issue with this.

You’re talking in circles. You don’t think they should be nerfed but they are too strong together? Doesn’t make sense. Btw, thief needs the mobility b/c they can still get hit while stealth. You don’t need a target to kill someone. We do have good burst, mobility, and stealth, what we don’t have is aoe, cc, any source of damage mitigation (aside from evades), or a good class mechanic (steal can either be pretty good or near useless vs something like virtues or shatters). If there were only 3 mechanics to this game I’d say having all 3 is op but since there is more than 3, it’s completely fine that a slippery burst class is slippery and bursty. If they were given aoe attacks on all dagger attacks, sbow projectile speeds and cast times increased/quickened 300%, and given stability and invulnerability, then thief would be disgusting.

randomfightfan.4091:

TheGuy.3568:

I am not saying thieves should be easy to catch, but I feel that it doesn’t make sense to give a class so much capability to escape and gap closers without some sort of way to balance it vs other classes incapability to do the same.

To clarify no I do not think mobility or stealth should be nerfed. This class has seen enough nerfs. That being said I think there is a balance issue with this.

You’re talking in circles. You don’t think they should be nerfed but they are too strong together? Doesn’t make sense. Btw, thief needs the mobility b/c they can still get hit while stealth. You don’t need a target to kill someone. We do have good burst, mobility, and stealth, what we don’t have is aoe, cc, any source of damage mitigation (aside from evades), or a good class mechanic (steal can either be pretty good or near useless vs something like virtues or shatters). If there were only 3 mechanics to this game I’d say having all 3 is op but since there is more than 3, it’s completely fine that a slippery burst class is slippery and bursty. If they were given aoe attacks on all dagger attacks, sbow projectile speeds and cast times increased/quickened 300%, and given stability and invulnerability, then thief would be disgusting.

Ok you again. One response thats it. I got 0 time to argue with you because you’ll never agree with me.

Never said there needs to be a nerf just an explanation.

The fact is if the target can’t see you it makes it nigh impossible to hit you. Ranged players simply can’t and melee players are short range so it just maneuvering around them. That makes stealth all by itself a good defensive mechanic (WvW). Very few good thieves would need a movement ability on top of that in a regular fight.

The other thing is (as I stated before) access to stealth is consistent. Unlike other things you mention which are a much larger cool downs.

As far as Aoe CC Invul and stability. AoE I have stated before is weak (well get back to this). CC is there with S/X and S/P its just not a great set S/P that is. Invul is also there in S/P. Any boon you mention doesn’t matter as we re capable of achieving the best boon ripper build in the game and it is spamable. Evades are literally the second best damage mitigation in the game.

Steal vs other class mechanics is wanting in flashiness but good in what it does. It is a gap closer and a strong one. In PvE it isn’t much but in WvW its part of my question because it adds to chase and escape.

DanH.5879:

joining the OP’s fail thread, sustaining his cause for a new thief nerf
HS jumpin 50 units and 50% damage reduction
or/and
BS reduced by 75%
also
shadowstep CD increased to 99 seconds and teleporting range reduced to 100 units

Like I said before I didn’t ask for a nerf because I wanted an explanation. I said it seems unbalanced not that it is. Even if I did suggest a nerf in mobility it would be ot infiltrators strike bringing it down to 600 since no other range set gets anything like that and bring shadowstep’s range to 900 and reduce the CD by 5 seconds. Even so who would know if that change would be balanced. For all I know it would break the class. Either way something seems off about having so much of both.

Your theatrics are recognized, but unnecessary. I have no issue with thief DPS or burst.

randomfightfan.4091:

what we don’t have is aoe,

I seem to remember this thread and this video made by you claiming the opposite. Stick to your guns if you are going to argue ad nauseum.

TheGuy.3568:

randomfightfan.4091:

what we don’t have is aoe,

I seem to remember this thread and this video made by you claiming the opposite. Stick to your guns if you are going to argue ad nauseum.

If you still didn’t get what I was trying to say throughout that thread, we have lots of options for aoe, they just aren’t great vs a zerg since you need to stay back and wait for cluster to land or you have to get in close and most likely die since you’re too close and not stealth in said zerg. In pve and pvp the aoe is great b/c you don’t need to worry about 50 players jumping you. Since all thief qq threads are about wvw, I thought it was pretty safe to assume you were talking about a wvw setting. In a pvp setting, I’d say only ele and necro are better for aoe while neither compare for single target.

Last thing, why are you talking about stealth vs virtues and shatters when the only thing I was comparing to virtues and shatters was steal? I was just bringing up the f skills that’s supposed to define a class. Not accusing or anything, just not sure what we’re talking about here. Little confused about the topic jump.

Thieves have best mobility, which is stealth.
Thieves do not have best burst anymore.

Thieves are best roamers in wvw, but they are not nearly as good in tpvp/spvp.

Thieves are balanced. If anything they need some love to compete with warrior and Mesmer burst which are by far superior to that of a thief.

swinsk.6410:

Thieves have best mobility, which is stealth.
Thieves do not have best burst anymore.

Thieves are best roamers in wvw, but they are not nearly as good in tpvp/spvp.

Thieves are balanced. If anything they need some love to compete with warrior and Mesmer burst which are by far superior to that of a thief.

I wont argue about tpvp/spvp. I thought my post clearly said (WvW) where needed?

Stealth is not mobility. Movement skills are mobility. RtL, HS, Rush, swoop, infiltrators’ arrow etc.

While I agree thief needs help in PvE in terms of burst vs a warrior. However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

…

Am I playing the same game as you?

All professions are good in something (or several like mesmer), please don’t start another QQ just because thieves are good roamers.

However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

What the ..? lol

only thing op about thief is stealth (mainly the D/P set). the burst and mobility are fine.

ANET said they’re buffing our mobility in a future patch anyways.

SoLeciTO.3490:

However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

…

Am I playing the same game as you?

All professions are good in something (or several like mesmer), please don’t start another QQ just because thieves are good roamers.

You are, but you practice selective reading and skipped the preceding sentence. In terms of PvE it isn’t as that what the point pertained to (read the discussion). The only thing comparable to BS thief is terms of DPS among mes builds is Phant with 3 swordsmen up. You should know these things if you intend to respond.

Ashanor.5319:

However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

What the ..? lol

Same response as the guy above.

Excalibur.9748:

only thing op about thief is stealth (mainly the D/P set). the burst and mobility are fine.

ANET said they’re buffing our mobility in a future patch anyways.

I have no issues with thief burst and I stated that. However, I did ask if one class should have both that much stealth and that much mobility at the same time. Like I said this isn’t a kitten thread nor is it a nerf all thread. I personally think nerfing stealth is a no no. Too many builds rely on it atm and just like the last time they did it the results were undesirable. Evasion makes sense but I do not see a need for increased mobility.

TBF Anet has said many things in the past. Like DD ele needs more sustained, aoe should be toned down further, P/D thief should get an extra condition etc. They say things in SoTGs but often that doesn’t mean it is going to happen.

TheGuy.3568:

SoLeciTO.3490:

However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

…

Am I playing the same game as you?

All professions are good in something (or several like mesmer), please don’t start another QQ just because thieves are good roamers.

You are, but you practice selective reading and skipped the preceding sentence. In terms of PvE it isn’t as that what the point pertained to (read the discussion). The only thing comparable to BS thief is terms of DPS among mes builds is Phant with 3 swordsmen up. You should know these things if you intend to respond.

Ashanor.5319:

However, mesmer burst isn’t very high at all.

What the ..? lol

Same response as the guy above.

Excalibur.9748:

only thing op about thief is stealth (mainly the D/P set). the burst and mobility are fine.

ANET said they’re buffing our mobility in a future patch anyways.

I have no issues with thief burst and I stated that. However, I did ask if one class should have both that much stealth and that much mobility at the same time. Like I said this isn’t a kitten thread nor is it a nerf all thread. I personally think nerfing stealth is a no no. Too many builds rely on it atm and just like the last time they did it the results were undesirable. Evasion makes sense but I do not see a need for increased mobility.

TBF Anet has said many things in the past. Like DD ele needs more sustained, aoe should be toned down further, P/D thief should get an extra condition etc. They say things in SoTGs but often that doesn’t mean it is going to happen.

Are you kidding me? If anything needs a nerf, it’s stealth. D/P perma stealth is ridiculous. Trust me , if a nerf happens it will be on D/P set – no longer possible to perma stealth. Mobility and burst is fine. If anything, mobility will be buffed for sword as promised.

TheGuy.3568:

Call it QQ but I keep wondering about it and have now for months. Why does the class with the possibility to have consistent access stealth, and burst have the highest mobility in the game?

…

I am not saying thieves should be easy to catch, but I feel that it doesn’t make sense to give a class so much capability to escape and gap closers without some sort of way to balance it vs other classes incapability to do the same.

To clarify no I do not think mobility or stealth should be nerfed. This class has seen enough nerfs. That being said I think there is a balance issue with this.

I have no issues with thief burst and I stated that. However, I did ask if one class should have both that much stealth and that much mobility at the same time. Like I said this isn’t a kitten thread nor is it a nerf all thread. I personally think nerfing stealth is a no no. Too many builds rely on it atm and just like the last time they did it the results were undesirable. Evasion makes sense but I do not see a need for increased mobility.

First of all, we can’t kill anyone with stealth, evasion, dodges, mobility, etc. The name of the game is kill your opponent, we don’t get points for being tricky.

So with that in mind, if you think that something has to be balanced that burst and stealth should not be working synergically, then the only nerf that would make sense is to nerf stealth, evade, and mobility at the cost of increasing damage output.

Reducing damage and keeping survivability tools will not do us any good since we cannot kill anything with that. Sure we’ll be hard to kill but that is simply unproductive. This is a deal breaker and a major No-No. No more damage nerf.

So, let’s get rid of stealth, evade, and mobility but I want to be able to insta-kill even a fully buffed bunker build.

That’s a trade off I am willing to take.

(steals your boons while you cry on forum)

I actually wouldn’t mind losing the consistent stealth D/P gives. It feels cheap and too strong with too much access, but each other weapon set (e.g. D/D and S/D) feels appropriate. It has good access to stealth, but can be screwed up or prevented with skill. There should be an appropriate counter to D/P stealth as well.

Excalibur.9748:

Are you kidding me? If anything needs a nerf, it’s stealth. D/P perma stealth is ridiculous. Trust me , if a nerf happens it will be on D/P set – no longer possible to perma stealth. Mobility and burst is fine. If anything, mobility will be buffed for sword as promised.

I rarely joke. Stealth nerfs hit the class too hard cross build. D/P was not mentioned and if I did it would be for Shadow Shot possibly being too good of a gap closer. Once again as i said they say a lot in SoTGs that just don’t happen. How long ago was that? Think about it.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

First of all, we can’t kill anyone with stealth, evasion, dodges, mobility, etc. The name of the game is kill your opponent, we don’t get points for being tricky.

So with that in mind, if you think that something has to be balanced that burst and stealth should not be working synergically, then the only nerf that would make sense is to nerf stealth, evade, and mobility at the cost of increasing damage output.

Reducing damage and keeping survivability tools will not do us any good since we cannot kill anything with that. Sure we’ll be hard to kill but that is simply unproductive. This is a deal breaker and a major No-No. No more damage nerf.

So, let’s get rid of stealth, evade, and mobility but I want to be able to insta-kill even a fully buffed bunker build.

That’s a trade off I am willing to take.

Well honestly a bunker could say the same but have no real dps. That being said I don’t think a damage nerf is good or plausible. Nerfing stealth in general just like they did last time hits too many builds at once. From pseudo bunker to conditions it is simply too much to ask for and unreasonable to suggest.

Deathspike.1870:

I actually wouldn’t mind losing the consistent stealth D/P gives. It feels cheap and too strong with too much access, but each other weapon set (e.g. D/D and S/D) feels appropriate. It has good access to stealth, but can be screwed up or prevented with skill. There should be an appropriate counter to D/P stealth as well.

Off topic but the main issue with DP is not the stealth. Technically speaking I could and admittedly have done the same sort of trolling with P/D and DD. that being said the main issue with DP is the blind. The projectile and the field are a little to much. If you weren’t blinded so often the build gets to be much easier to handle allowing for strong CC during the gaps.

On a side note I find it funny I am the only here not mentioning anything about stealth being OP.

Nope the problem with D/P is DEFINATELY perma stealth and I can guarantee will be nerfed in the future. It’s basically a game breaking build.

Excalibur.9748:

Nope the problem with P/D is DEFINATELY perma stealth and I can guarantee will be nerfed in the future. It’s basically a game breaking build.

I assume you mean D/P. I never said they wouldn’t touch it. I am saying that’s not the real issue but the perceived one. there are a lot of ways to break the perma-stealth and you know it if you play it. Once again this isn’t about the merits of DP as I said it is clearly off topic. I ask nicely that you keep that discussion to the pertinent threads.

@TheGuy

The game is not supposed to be balanced around roaming. I think your complain is about WvW which is “World versus World” not “Roamers Dueling Arena” .

And the game is MMO RPG where “R” states fot “Role” which means every class has a role and solo roaming is for thieves.

Anyway like it or not ANet don’t agree with you, and I and some more people as I can see from comments also. So if you dont like the meta of the game its your own problem.

Riko.9214:

@TheGuy

The game is not supposed to be balanced around roaming. I think your complain is about WvW which is “World versus World” not “Roamers Dueling Arena” .

And the game is MMO RPG where “R” states fot “Role” which means every class has a role and solo roaming is for thieves.

Anyway like it or not ANet don’t agree with you, and I and some more people as I can see from comments also. So if you dont like the meta of the game its your own problem.

Not agreeing with me is not an issue. Whether Anet agree with me or not is irrelevant as I asked a question. Understand?

RPG or role playing game has nothing to do with your role on the battle field but with the way you are supposed to act (ie if your a pirate act like one). You might need to brush up on your history from the table top.

Now I need to remind you in GW2 there is no class specific role. You know that already. Solo roaming is not a thief only pursuit and that is a very limited view of the game. The fact you could even perceive that actually only furthers my point. It is the same a saying that only class X can do this every other class just can’t and that makes sense for a balance perspective how?

That being said with a fully geared multi gear thief I still roam warrior 90% of the time. I do not think the thief is the only good roamer thus the fact that I asked a question instead of saying “OMG THIEF SHOULD BE NERFED LIKE NOW!”. Understand me?

IMHO it seems your post is more indicative of someone who wants thief nerfed and not mine. I honestly think your another kitten thief who fears getting nerfed and mistakes a question with QQ. Get over it. So far I have had to defend stealth and burst in this thread (and I am QQing supposedly). I honestly do not feel like arguing with another thief who can’t discuss anything reasonably. I play thief too and probably longer than you so take your hurt elsewhere.

TheGuy.3568:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

First of all, we can’t kill anyone with stealth, evasion, dodges, mobility, etc. The name of the game is kill your opponent, we don’t get points for being tricky.

So with that in mind, if you think that something has to be balanced that burst and stealth should not be working synergically, then the only nerf that would make sense is to nerf stealth, evade, and mobility at the cost of increasing damage output.

Reducing damage and keeping survivability tools will not do us any good since we cannot kill anything with that. Sure we’ll be hard to kill but that is simply unproductive. This is a deal breaker and a major No-No. No more damage nerf.

So, let’s get rid of stealth, evade, and mobility but I want to be able to insta-kill even a fully buffed bunker build.

That’s a trade off I am willing to take.

Well honestly a bunker could say the same but have no real dps. That being said I don’t think a damage nerf is good or plausible. Nerfing stealth in general just like they did last time hits too many builds at once. From pseudo bunker to conditions it is simply too much to ask for and unreasonable to suggest.

“I don’t think a damage nerf is good or plausible..”
“Nerfing stealth in general just like they did last time hits too many builds at once.”

So what exactly you want to happen?

From my post, nerfing stealth is the only way to go. You have yet to suggest on how you want it, according to your own definition of balance.

So please, what is your definition of balance if the current state of the Thief profession needs balancing according to you?

Don’t tell me you don’t know because you have to know, otherwise how else would you know that it needs balancing.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

TheGuy.3568:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

First of all, we can’t kill anyone with stealth, evasion, dodges, mobility, etc. The name of the game is kill your opponent, we don’t get points for being tricky.

So with that in mind, if you think that something has to be balanced that burst and stealth should not be working synergically, then the only nerf that would make sense is to nerf stealth, evade, and mobility at the cost of increasing damage output.

Reducing damage and keeping survivability tools will not do us any good since we cannot kill anything with that. Sure we’ll be hard to kill but that is simply unproductive. This is a deal breaker and a major No-No. No more damage nerf.

So, let’s get rid of stealth, evade, and mobility but I want to be able to insta-kill even a fully buffed bunker build.

That’s a trade off I am willing to take.

Well honestly a bunker could say the same but have no real dps. That being said I don’t think a damage nerf is good or plausible. Nerfing stealth in general just like they did last time hits too many builds at once. From pseudo bunker to conditions it is simply too much to ask for and unreasonable to suggest.

“I don’t think a damage nerf is good or plausible..”
“Nerfing stealth in general just like they did last time hits too many builds at once.”

So what exactly you want to happen?

From my post, nerfing stealth is the only way to go. You have yet to suggest on how you want it, according to your own definition of balance.

So please, what is your definition of balance if the current state of the Thief profession needs balancing according to you?

Don’t tell me you don’t know because you have to know, otherwise how else would you know that it needs balancing.

That’s why I asked a question instead of stating that balance has to happen. I also don’t necessarily think the balance has to be with this class directly. I think too many of you are used to seeing threads demanding changes vs asking if something needs to be changed. I was careful with my wording so that a question could be asked to the devs and not a demand list. I asked if it was balanced and you have yet to see me say that it is definitively not balanced. BECAUSE I DON’T KNOW. Sorry for the caps but it seems like my first post was skipped entirely and favor or attacking me.

I did state in an earlier post that there were 2 things that might need to be balanced directly in this class in terms of movement. I also stated i have no clue if it is class breaking.

Please remember not every thread is a suggestion thread and sometimes people do ask real questions. I asked about one topic “mobility” that is it. I see issues there but I cant say for fact that it has to be nerfed but I think there are wide gaps there than might be too wide. Does that mean it needs to be nerfed? Not at all but it doesn’t mean I can’t see them and wonder if hey are fully intended.

Edit:

For clarification as for a as stealth goes I perceive it in relation to movement. If movement is reduced then stealth is inherently nerfed everywhere. If movement is increased on other classes than stealth is partially nerfed (has no effect in PvE). If stealth is nefed then weak movement sets S/P S/D PP and P/D mobility is unaffected but stealth is for 2 of them.

S/D is not a weak movement set. It’s better than D/D and D/P for pure movement.

Thief doesn’t have enough mobility.
They’re supposed to give us more so we can actually have the highest.

I think if they change the passive signet of shadows from 25% to 33% that will be a nice boost to mobility.

I think I have the answer to your question. You know that the field/combo on d/p 5-2 is extremely expensive and most of the time one will only be able to get 2 rotations off, 3 if they use a utility. The ini cost isn’t a problem and neither is the stealth. Nerfing thief damage is just a dumb idea b/c that’s all a thief has. It would just be an unfair nerf. As you seem to believe, blind is the true problem with d/p and that’s a very valid claim.

If the field from pistol 5 was reduced by 1 second, thieves could still use the field for stealth but they wouldn’t be able to stack moderate amounts of stealth. The amounts of blinds given off would be reduced quite a bit but the usability of the weapon combo would still be there. Much of the portrayed cheesing would be reduced and noobs would have a better chance vs thieves (they’ll still probably die since they believe invis = teleported to the enterprise).

TheGuy.3568:

Call it QQ but I keep wondering about it and have now for months. Why does the class with the possibility to have consistent access stealth, and burst have the highest mobility in the game?

To me this seems inherently bad design. If a class has a strong escape mechanism through one route who should they have it through the other also. Because one doesn’t break the other doesn’t that cause an imbalance?

And before the “this is QQ”, “you probably got beat by thief” etc. That hasn’t happened in months. I am not bitter or angry or kitten over thieves. I personally love my thief but at the same time I find it hard to WvW due to this.

I am not saying thieves should be easy to catch, but I feel that it doesn’t make sense to give a class so much capability to escape and gap closers without some sort of way to balance it vs other classes incapability to do the same.

To clarify no I do not think mobility or stealth should be nerfed. This class has seen enough nerfs. That being said I think there is a balance issue with this.

Anet, I don’t understand your logic behind the portal mechanic. I mean 25 people can bypass a 100% door and kill the lord. There’s really no counter to it unless you camp the mesmer corp or camp the tower/keep with equal numbers.

WvW isn’t fair because the game is balanced around 5v5 in a small map. To try and think logically outside of which would be illogical.

People like @TheGuy will never stop crying because his pride was damage.

Lets be honest, all your crying is because a thief killed you or you could kill a thief than just run away.

You never complain a warrior because cannot scape as easy as a thief?

You complain in this forum because you don’t l2p with your profession and a thief just laugh at you.

ill finish with this phrase I just love.

Dear A-Net

Please nerf scissors,
Rock is fine,
Sincerely Paper.

Know your role in this game . . . you don’t like it? then change the character you have several slots for that.

I wish they would explain how thief went from 4 melee sets at launch to arguably 1.

ensoriki.5789:

I wish they would explain how thief went from 4 melee sets at launch to arguably 1.

I want my 2h Katana blade!

Or 1h Katana and offhand wakizashi.

We need long bow, dual katana and dual claws and shuriken

It’s funny how people always talk about the strong points of the thief’s, but never about the negative ones as if the thief is the end all be all class….seriously……

btw we also need gauntlets for hand to hand combat (dim mak baby)

Rafahil.2857:

It’s funny how people always talk about the strong points of the thief’s, but never about the negative ones as if the thief is the end all be all class….seriously……

btw we also need gauntlets for hand to hand combat (dim mak baby)

I know eh, i wish my thief could bunker and poop boons out like a guardian can. One can only dream

Thieves need higher damage on sword 1, shortbow 1, and pistol 1. Stealth is balanced if its not constantly available on demand. Dagger/ pistol’s access to stealth is very good and sets up some pretty 1 sided fights or let someone hang around for long periods with little risk to them. If you reset the fight that’s ok, being able to constantly reset it when things aren’t in your favor is too much.

I still feel a lot of thief issues stem from initiative. From a historical standpoint it’s been the breaking point for quite a few skills. Just take unload. Unload sucks now, it shouldn’t, but it’s bad because when it was good you could just machine gun people to death at your leisure. Overall I think thieves are lacking in a few areas, but initiative makes it difficult to buff them without making something over the top. The profession needs a rework at this point.

TheGuy.3568:

That’s why I asked a question instead of stating that balance has to happen. I also don’t necessarily think the balance has to be with this class directly…

I’d be honest, I stopped reading there because if you don’t think the balance has be done with the Thief profession then why post it here in this forum and not in WvW forum?

Stop wasting our time. Troll begone.

1. Stealth has multiple viable counters. Usually the best one just requires swinging a chained auto-attack around, and whenever the chain changes from one link to the next you know you’ve hit something.

Otherwise, AoE spam, or understand the mechanics behind the stealthing skills. When you get to the bottom of things, you find that most stealthing skills tend only to last a few seconds.

2. Extremely bursty builds lack defense entirely; Eviscerate them once and they’ll probably go down. Not every thief has burst though. For example, my build focuses on sustained damage and team fights. Its burst is pretty terrible, and even when I do burst, it usually only happens once when I engage my opponents, and the burst remains on cooldown for the majority of the rest of the fight. That burst would be Basi Venom + Flanking Strike + Mug, + whatever damage comes from the stun, and even then I wouldn’t tread to say that maybe that entire combo can hit 5k max. That’s just how much burst I lack, and realize that I can usually only pull off this entire combo once during a fight.

So, my answer to this would be: burstiness comes at the price of defensive concessions. The math behind these burst builds doesn’t always work out great, and it ends up often turning out that, once you learn to avoid the initial burst, you’re good for the rest of the game.

3. Thieves are given mobility as their class weapon, essentially. Just like how rangers have tons of healing and range, how guards have tons of defense, etc.

sayin thiefs are imbalanced in their thread is like jumping into a lion’s den covered in bacon.

you ll be wrong even if you post actual evidence proving your statement.

If you’re staying in stealth, you’re not attacking, right? Which means that if you’re frequently in stealth for 3 seconds at a time, you’re losing a lot of attacking time. And while it’s a good defense/misdirection, technically a thief can still be grievously injured while in stealth, unlike invulnerability or long blocking periods.

So the usage of stealth would seriously hurt a the thief’s damage, except that due to the initiative system, a thief’s damage potential can be put into ‘bursts’. They can effectively use up all of their power in a few seconds, at the cost of not being able to do much of anything while they wait for initiative to recharge. So the idea is that a Thief makes their contribution to the fight all at once, then is forced to withdraw or otherwise get out of the danger zone, due to their frailty. The high presence of shadowsteps and stealth is probably intended to allow that periodic retreat & sneak in gameplay.

That’s my theory anyways, on why thieves have burst, mobility, and stealth.

Thieves have 0 survivability in combat. We cannot deal damage while using our main healing-by-volume (stealth), taking us out of the fight and essentially forcing a 4v5. This, combined with our inability to tank hits, forces us to stay out of the fight, thus negating our presence in sustained combat.

However, we have the mobility to offer a great degree of utility in multiple fights across the map.

Stealth is a bad mechanic in this game’s combat at the moment, seeing as it offers nothing to the fight besides a target-drop. However, it allows us to escape fights, giving us the chance to offer assistance elsewhere.

All this QQ thief nerfs is because they couldn’t catch a thief trolling a 20 people zerk.

Their pride doesn’t let them just go on and take a bigger goal like a tower.

SoLeciTO.3490:

People like @TheGuy will never stop crying because his pride was damage.

Lets be honest, all your crying is because a thief killed you or you could kill a thief than just run away.

You never complain a warrior because cannot scape as easy as a thief?

You complain in this forum because you don’t l2p with your profession and a thief just laugh at you.

ill finish with this phrase I just love.

Dear A-Net

Please nerf scissors,
Rock is fine,
Sincerely Paper.

Know your role in this game . . . you don’t like it? then change the character you have several slots for that.

I suggest you read my Op again. I forgot how dumb half the thieves here are. No one gives a kitten about pride when they lose to a thief its expected. The thief however kittens bricks when it happens. TBH last time i faced 2 thieves 80 and all I sat on their heads as awarrior so no pride hurt here champ.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

TheGuy.3568:

That’s why I asked a question instead of stating that balance has to happen. I also don’t necessarily think the balance has to be with this class directly…

I’d be honest, I stopped reading there because if you don’t think the balance has be done with the Thief profession then why post it here in this forum and not in WvW forum?

Stop wasting our time. Troll begone.

kitten the nice language. I asked the devs your’e not kittening dev so you could have moved on at any point. Instead you chose to derail my thread about movement skills and make it about kittening DP and honestly to be nice I entertained but I don’t give a kitten about D/P thief. I could care less but its seems my point was lost in all the bs post here.

Let me explain something about thief thief community you know whats OP and half of us really do not care )because most if it cant be nerfed right now). We bring up a general balance question you lose your kittening minds because you fear nerfs. And the truth is nerfs are likely coming to your popular sets. I could care less though. So QQ more troll more go on more. When your class is in the dirt and you quit I will still be on my PD thief having fun.

Lets be honest here thieves are easy to beat (by beat I mean get them to run home). Most of you role the same spam 1-2 skills builds (even I do that on thief) and feel like your champs at the end of the day. So if you feel that your pride might be hit by someone stating the truth you jump on them and call them every name under the sun.

Sad part for you guys I haven’t been beat by a thief is really long kittening time. So my movement discussion is a bust. Please continue your circle jerk about how great you are and how anyone who says anything at all is noob/troll/loser/etc. It really is good reading.

I’m Out! Rant over continue the derail.

Moderators should close such threads and even delete them.
1- Useless
2- Counterproductive
3- Wrong sub-forum

Go to the sub-forum of your main class, and try to learn from them how to counter thieves. End of story.