Guild Wars 2

Basically thieves need that.

Revert it back period. That is all.

What you referring to by IR, gentlemen?

Infiltrator’s return, used to cost 0 seconds to cast (just like mesmer’s staff, instant teleport). Anet then made it 0.5 seconds (ZERO. FIVE.) making it a ridiculous skill set that allows no survivability for thieves. Had it been 0.01-0.05 seconds cast time, this skill might not suck as bad, but in the case of WvW this will be utterly insane and useless, a nerf beyond reasoning.

Just to remind devs, THERE IS NO STABILITY skillset for thieves. Either give us a stability ability or don’t touch this skill at all. Gosh.

I agree .5 is too long but it cannot be instant. They should shave a bit off strike too so it can be used for quicker cleanse

Maybe .25 seconds, or even .2? I do agree that .5 is a bit too long, especially since if you’re using it, you need to get away ASAP.

Couldn’t agree less, in all game modes it should be instant, I don’t care whether it’s usable while stunned or channeling, but instant it should be.

Currently the best use of the kitten skill is to clear a condition.

If they want the game to be fair there are plenty of other skills that need a cast time as well, like; Focus #5 on guardian, Staff #2 on mesmer, D/x Air #3 on ele.

Its fine. Go watch Sizer play. Great for juking and repositioning both yourself and your opponent.

Reikou.7068:

Its fine. Go watch Sizer play. Great for juking and repositioning both yourself and your opponent.

What sort of nonsense are you writing now? Does Sizer play WvW? Show me how he survives in WvW.

WvW =/= sPvP.

I have no problem with it now, the only thing I have beef with is that it does not cleanse fear.

Reikou.7068:

Its fine. Go watch Sizer play. Great for juking and repositioning both yourself and your opponent.

Sure, let’s balance an ability around how one guy plays.

I agree that the current Infiltrator’s Return is clunky and feels terribly unresponsive. Half the time I use it I think I’m experiencing a sudden lag spike or by button-press didn’t register.

It’s the exact opposite of what responsive combat feels like.

They should just use whatever code they use for withdraw , make it instant cast but not usable when stunned, as it stands its too clunky .

We can’t combo it with anything like we used to since the skill goes on a queue which makes the set less fun as it takes a lot of the skillful play out it.

For the life of me i can’t figure out how this idea made it out of the gate, some balance team they got, i bet they actually didn’t test it.

its still a viable set in ….. PVE mwahahahahhaha

But in PVP/WVW i would NEVER use this. i would never use it in WVW before when it was 0 secs. just goesto show you its a pvp set only. we have 4 sec revealed in PVP and .5sec cast time on IR. seriously anet? you guys are not smart. really i think my cat is smarter.

TheThiefMaster.3812:

They should just use whatever code they use for withdraw , make it instant cast but not usable when stunned, as it stands its too clunky .

We can’t combo it with anything like we used to since the skill goes on a queue which makes the set less fun as it takes a lot of the skillful play out it.

For the life of me i can’t figure out how this idea made it out of the gate, some balance team they got, i bet they actually didn’t test it.

none of anet or devs etc play thief. they dont. there in lies half the problem.

if you wanna leave it at .5 secs…make it 0 init

+1 set it back to instant cast,

Before they nerfed it we made a bunch of suggestions of alternative ways they could nerf it (reducing the return range to 600, reducing the length of time the rollover was available, etc.) which were all ignored because the last balance patch discussion was more of a warning of what ascended weapons to not make rather than them wanting real feedback. This balance patch preview felt different and a different person handled it, so I suggested they revert it in that thread since it seemed like they were actually listening. You might create this thread in the class balance forum since it would get more visibility there.

+1 for reversion. Sword 2 is very clunky and UP compared to mesmer staff and sword 3 (swap is still an actual stunbreak fyi). I compare it to mesmer since they use the same type of magic and similar tricks.

I agree that it’s a bit too long and annoying at 0.5.
Even as a thief, however, I agree that you should not be able to cast it while stunned/dazed.

Maugetarr.6823:

Before they nerfed it we made a bunch of suggestions of alternative ways they could nerf it (reducing the return range to 600, reducing the length of time the rollover was available, etc.) which were all ignored because the last balance patch discussion was more of a warning of what ascended weapons to not make rather than them wanting real feedback. This balance patch preview felt different and a different person handled it, so I suggested they revert it in that thread since it seemed like they were actually listening. You might create this thread in the class balance forum since it would get more visibility there.

+1 for reversion. Sword 2 is very clunky and UP compared to mesmer staff and sword 3 (swap is still an actual stunbreak fyi). I compare it to mesmer since they use the same type of magic and similar tricks.

Oh my god whahahahahahahahahaha xD. Inflitrators strike UP compared to swap or phase retreat? Really ? :P
Just in case you haven’t noticed, IS is an instant cap closer that also immobilises, does not need los and teleports you vertically. It is broken as kitten.
Still, I agree that the IR should be made back to 0 because it’s so terribly clumsy and annoying to use now. The attack itself however, should not teleport vertically and should have slower cast time so that people can react to it.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Maugetarr.6823:

Before they nerfed it we made a bunch of suggestions of alternative ways they could nerf it (reducing the return range to 600, reducing the length of time the rollover was available, etc.) which were all ignored because the last balance patch discussion was more of a warning of what ascended weapons to not make rather than them wanting real feedback. This balance patch preview felt different and a different person handled it, so I suggested they revert it in that thread since it seemed like they were actually listening. You might create this thread in the class balance forum since it would get more visibility there.

+1 for reversion. Sword 2 is very clunky and UP compared to mesmer staff and sword 3 (swap is still an actual stunbreak fyi). I compare it to mesmer since they use the same type of magic and similar tricks.

Oh my god whahahahahahahahahaha xD. Inflitrators strike UP compared to swap or phase retreat? Really ? :P
Just in case you haven’t noticed, IS is an instant cap closer that also immobilises, does not need los and teleports you vertically. It is broken as kitten.
Still, I agree that the IR should be made back to 0 because it’s so terribly clumsy and annoying to use now. The attack itself however, should not teleport vertically and should have slower cast time so that people can react to it.

Sorry, I’ll specify. IR is UP compared to swap and phase retreat. iL might not give you the vertical movement and the clone from iL sometimes does weird zigzags, but swap is also instant cast, has a longer immobilize, has an actual stunbreak on it, and is available every 7.2 seconds when traited. Phase retreat can also be traited for low CD and has the added benefit that it can cause a warrior to burn adrenaline when used because they’ll connect with the clone. I’ll stand by my statement the IR is UP compared to swap and phase retreat, but next time I’ll use the name instead of “sword 2” to avoid confusion even though were specifically talking about IR.

Having played with it extensively since the patch I can say we overreacted to it. S/D is still livable with it (I do run two stunbreaks though) and S/P is dominant as ever. The cast time does feel really long though and I’ve found that I often need to dodge before using it to make sure I don’t get interrupted. I think it’d be completely fair to reduce the cast time to 0.1 sec or even better, code it like withdraw so it’s instant assuming you’re not stunned. These kinds of changes would just be for quality of life rather than making any build stronger.

However, it would be stupid to split it up between wvw/pve and spvp. The same logic applies in both areas.

Maugetarr.6823:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Maugetarr.6823:

Before they nerfed it we made a bunch of suggestions of alternative ways they could nerf it (reducing the return range to 600, reducing the length of time the rollover was available, etc.) which were all ignored because the last balance patch discussion was more of a warning of what ascended weapons to not make rather than them wanting real feedback. This balance patch preview felt different and a different person handled it, so I suggested they revert it in that thread since it seemed like they were actually listening. You might create this thread in the class balance forum since it would get more visibility there.

+1 for reversion. Sword 2 is very clunky and UP compared to mesmer staff and sword 3 (swap is still an actual stunbreak fyi). I compare it to mesmer since they use the same type of magic and similar tricks.

Oh my god whahahahahahahahahaha xD. Inflitrators strike UP compared to swap or phase retreat? Really ? :P
Just in case you haven’t noticed, IS is an instant cap closer that also immobilises, does not need los and teleports you vertically. It is broken as kitten.
Still, I agree that the IR should be made back to 0 because it’s so terribly clumsy and annoying to use now. The attack itself however, should not teleport vertically and should have slower cast time so that people can react to it.

Sorry, I’ll specify. IR is UP compared to swap and phase retreat. iL might not give you the vertical movement and the clone from iL sometimes does weird zigzags, but swap is also instant cast, has a longer immobilize, has an actual stunbreak on it, and is available every 7.2 seconds when traited. Phase retreat can also be traited for low CD and has the added benefit that it can cause a warrior to burn adrenaline when used because they’ll connect with the clone. I’ll stand by my statement the IR is UP compared to swap and phase retreat, but next time I’ll use the name instead of “sword 2” to avoid confusion even though were specifically talking about IR.

Illusionary Leap is not instant because the leaping clone must be near the target for the snaring to work, and it’s leap animation is fairly obvious. The leap is very unreliable as well and this skill can’t be used as a cap closer at range greater than 600. Then again, compared to IR + IS, this skill breaks a stun (but IS removes a condition) and has 2xleap finishers (while IR + IS has none).

That said, I still don’t know if IR is so UP compared to these two mesmer skills. It has greater range of 1200 and can be fairly easily used to teleport vertically, unlike swap or phase retreat (possible but not practical). When taken into context of both the initiative system and IS, IR becomes a very powerful skill.

It is also well known that s/X thief easily destroys any non bunker mesmer or elementalist and so I don’t think s/X needs a buff. IR could be reworked to make it less annoying to use, but something else should be nerffed to avoid power creep and increase of the strength of s/X weapon set.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Illusionary Leap is not instant because the leaping clone must be near the target for the snaring to work, and it’s leap animation is fairly obvious. The leap is very unreliable as well and this skill can’t be used as a cap closer at range greater than 600. Then again, compared to IR + IS, this skill breaks a stun (but IS removes a condition) and has 2xleap finishers (while IR + IS has none).

That said, I still don’t know if IR is so UP compared to these two mesmer skills. It has greater range of 1200 and can be fairly easily used to teleport vertically, unlike swap or phase retreat (possible but not practical). When taken into context of both the initiative system and IS, IR becomes a very powerful skill.

It is also well known that s/X thief easily destroys any non bunker mesmer or elementalist and so I don’t think s/X needs a buff. IR could be reworked to make it less annoying to use, but something else should be nerffed to avoid power creep and increase of the strength of s/X weapon set.

Well, each has it’s strengths, and I don’t thing IR is significantly UP, just slightly underperforming for what the thief is supposed to do which is be slippery. When they changed it originally, I was arguing to make it more like swap by reducing the time the rollover was available and/or reducing the distance it could port you back (600). By doing those I thought they could have kept it in balance by making it comparable to the mesmer weapon teleports without outperforming either one of them.

On a separate note, iL needs to be fixed/debugged so that the pathing works better on stairs and over cracks and whatnot, but those are specific mesmer balancing issues. The reason I compared it originally is because I think those would be a good template for how an instant cast IR could be implemented/reverted.

Edit: I guess I did say “very”…. sorry for the exaggeration in my frustration for how the skill was nerfed.

When Phase Retreat and Illusionary Leap (it’s not just Swap, in case you didn’t know) Are instant gap closers, and immobolize, and clear a condition, oh and have no cooldown, THEN we can compare the two.

And stop referring to swap as if mesmers can just use it at will. You summon a clone that has to actually find it’s way somewhere before you can decide to swap with it, in about 3 seconds. This actually requires a target, and line of sight at that. If you are even slightly out of range, tough luck enjoy your no clone and full cooldown. In no way is it comparable to IR. Sure, there are times that you might be lucky and manage to swap right as you got stunned, but I can count those times on one hand.

Phase Retreat blinks you away from a target, doesn’t break stun/immobolize. It just moves you. The cooldown is short, but not as short as 0 and certainly does nothing for conditions.

I have nothing against thieves by any means, but come on dude.

WhiteRose.6934:

When Phase Retreat and Illusionary Leap (it’s not just Swap, in case you didn’t know) Are instant gap closers, and immobolize, and clear a condition, oh and have no cooldown, THEN we can compare the two.

And stop referring to swap as if mesmers can just use it at will. You summon a clone that has to actually find it’s way somewhere before you can decide to swap with it, in about 3 seconds. This actually requires a target, and line of sight at that. If you are even slightly out of range, tough luck enjoy your no clone and full cooldown. In no way is it comparable to IR. Sure, there are times that you might be lucky and manage to swap right as you got stunned, but I can count those times on one hand.

Phase Retreat blinks you away from a target, doesn’t break stun/immobolize. It just moves you. The cooldown is short, but not as short as 0 and certainly does nothing for conditions.

I have nothing against thieves by any means, but come on dude.

And the old SR, now IR, also moved you without breaking stun. Yes it cured a condition but the 2 were perfectly comparable which is why I thought it should be a template for how they nerfed IR rather than the way that they did. If you were to shorten the rollover time to 7-10 seconds and reduce the return range to 600 so that it would be comparable to swap and shorter range than Phase Retreat, it would have brought it in line with similar abilities.

Edit: As for the CD issue, its not exactly comparable, but traited iL/Swap gives you a 7.2 second CD where using IS/IR costs 5 initiative which is 5 seconds to regenerate that amount (asuming no other skill use). I believe, if I remember right, the initiative changes took place during the same patch, so before it actually took about 6.75 seconds to regenerate that amount, so I would consider the the 2 comparable in terms of CD even though direct comparison is difficult due to the different resource mechanics.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Maugetarr.6823:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Maugetarr.6823:

Before they nerfed it we made a bunch of suggestions of alternative ways they could nerf it (reducing the return range to 600, reducing the length of time the rollover was available, etc.) which were all ignored because the last balance patch discussion was more of a warning of what ascended weapons to not make rather than them wanting real feedback. This balance patch preview felt different and a different person handled it, so I suggested they revert it in that thread since it seemed like they were actually listening. You might create this thread in the class balance forum since it would get more visibility there.

+1 for reversion. Sword 2 is very clunky and UP compared to mesmer staff and sword 3 (swap is still an actual stunbreak fyi). I compare it to mesmer since they use the same type of magic and similar tricks.

Oh my god whahahahahahahahahaha xD. Inflitrators strike UP compared to swap or phase retreat? Really ? :P
Just in case you haven’t noticed, IS is an instant cap closer that also immobilises, does not need los and teleports you vertically. It is broken as kitten.
Still, I agree that the IR should be made back to 0 because it’s so terribly clumsy and annoying to use now. The attack itself however, should not teleport vertically and should have slower cast time so that people can react to it.

Sorry, I’ll specify. IR is UP compared to swap and phase retreat. iL might not give you the vertical movement and the clone from iL sometimes does weird zigzags, but swap is also instant cast, has a longer immobilize, has an actual stunbreak on it, and is available every 7.2 seconds when traited. Phase retreat can also be traited for low CD and has the added benefit that it can cause a warrior to burn adrenaline when used because they’ll connect with the clone. I’ll stand by my statement the IR is UP compared to swap and phase retreat, but next time I’ll use the name instead of “sword 2” to avoid confusion even though were specifically talking about IR.

Illusionary Leap is not instant because the leaping clone must be near the target for the snaring to work, and it’s leap animation is fairly obvious. The leap is very unreliable as well and this skill can’t be used as a cap closer at range greater than 600. Then again, compared to IR + IS, this skill breaks a stun (but IS removes a condition) and has 2xleap finishers (while IR + IS has none).

That said, I still don’t know if IR is so UP compared to these two mesmer skills. It has greater range of 1200 and can be fairly easily used to teleport vertically, unlike swap or phase retreat (possible but not practical). When taken into context of both the initiative system and IS, IR becomes a very powerful skill.

It is also well known that s/X thief easily destroys any non bunker mesmer or elementalist and so I don’t think s/X needs a buff. IR could be reworked to make it less annoying to use, but something else should be nerffed to avoid power creep and increase of the strength of s/X weapon set.

Blah blah blah, you’re comparing apples and oranges. Are you really serious to talk about the functionality of Sword mesmer? Leap, blurred frenzy, mind wreck. This skill is not used as a defensive tool. Your closest comparison should be phase retreat.

That skill is INSTANT cast, with a cooldown of 10 seconds. Note that YOUR phase retreat illusion casts Winds of Chaos, repeatedly as long as the clone is not killed. Take in mind, thieves IS/IR needs 5 initiative to cast out (5 seconds to regain initiative), both of which takes from a shared initiative pool. OF all the ridiculous things you want to talk about you choose to a “1v1 thief” easily destroys mesmer/ele.

Look at the topic. It says WvW. In an area where a mere 0.01 second interrupt will cancel a thief IR because of the LONG CASTING TIME or 1 second stun will instant KO you, IR with delay is NOT OKAY.

Gosh, people, read the topic.

i use 10/30/0/30/0 full zerker and i can easily 1v4 because i play spvp and wvw players are so bad Kappa

Syncesta.7592:

i use 10/30/0/30/0 full zerker and i can easily 1v4 because i play spvp and wvw players are so bad Kappa

Yes, and we all know which 5 letter word describes you perfectly.

Putting aside the balance that has gone to ****, ride the lightning (while warrior’s rush takes the cake for trololol you can’t catch me), increasing revealed to 4 seconds and this sword 2, are the worst nerfs. Balance my *.

Devs, why not take 30 minutes, go to WvW with a sword and fight in the large scale battles and tell me how to survive (WOAH THIEVES HAVE NO STABILITY TRAITS/UTILITY SKILLS 1!!!111 wink wink REMINDER?)

Hype.8032:

I think it’d be completely fair to reduce the cast time to 0.1 sec or even better, code it like withdraw so it’s instant assuming you’re not stunned. These kinds of changes would just be for quality of life rather than making any build stronger.

Imagine they’d actually do that. The raised skill cap would allow thieves who know how to play sword well to even further frustrate other players, who usually just want an easy loot bag.

Tbh, I think the main reason for Anet to add cast time was to remove the combos with instant IR – they said it themselves. I doubt we will ever see instant IR again, Anet doesn’t want more QQ from people even if it means dumbing down the weapon set.

This skill has been battered beyond recognition… Stunbreaker removed, range reduced, inability to use it when stunned/prone/feared…. But of all changes, the casting time makes absolutely no sense on a reaction-defensive ability.

It feels clunky, detrimental for a smooth gameplay experience, and inadequate for its primary use, which is damage avoidance.

For the record, I wouldn’t mind it being unable to be used while stunned… If it was instant casting time.

Even if devs changed ir in Order to break stomp combos, They should left it at instant cast but make it cancel current Action and disabled while stunned etc.
Reference:
Blinding powder is instant but cancels Action (why Btw? Last refuge does Not).
Withdraw is instant but disabled while stunned.

This change absolutely shafted thieves in PvE. I hate that they balance everything around pvp. Ruins the rest of the game. They need to start splitting skills already. IR seems like a great place to start.

I agree that it should work like Blinding Powder (insta cast + break action) but am 100% against splitting skill behaviour between game modes.
Changing values like Damage, number of Vulnerability stacks, Power/Hpwr scaling is fine but not behaviour.
Take PvX player for instance. You get used to certain skills and when you change game mode they act differently and alter your gaming performance as a result.
I know dozens of people that are mostly WvWers but like to hop into Team/Solo Queue as well as do PvE to get some gold/skins.

TLDR; Number-split YES, Behaviour-split NO.

scabrous.7835:

Number-split YES, Behaviour-split NO.

They have to or class balance in PvE will deteriorate past the point it already has (which is deplorable). Plus, behavior splitting has already been implemented, you just weren’t paying attention I guess.

I love s/d thief but i understand it having a cast time. That being said .25 is much more reasonable.

Pwent.2639:

I love s/d thief but i understand it having a cast time. That being said .25 is much more reasonable.

The problem is – it is queued behind other skills… so even if it’s a 0.01s cast time it can still get random delay depending on what are you doing at that time, so using it as a reliable reactive avoidance skill while you are fighting is almost impossible. It needs to be instant(or almost instant) and cancel out queued skills(this definitely).

Pavel.8531:

Pwent.2639:

I love s/d thief but i understand it having a cast time. That being said .25 is much more reasonable.

The problem is – it is queued behind other skills… so even if it’s a 0.01s cast time it can still get random delay depending on what are you doing at that time, so using it as a reliable reactive avoidance skill while you are fighting is almost impossible. It needs to be instant(or almost instant) and cancel out queued skills(this definitely).

I feel like i recognize your user name from ingame :/

Pwent.2639:

I love s/d thief but i understand it having a cast time. That being said .25 is much more reasonable.

I thought that they were supposed to change it to a 0.25s cast time in the first place, I don’t know why they went with 0.5s.

It’s definitely better to have it with a cast time though. IMO the mesmer one should have a short cast time too, I’m a bit surprised they have done that yet.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard so much complaining about half a second for a cast time in any MMO I have ever played. GW2 Thieves really are a jaded bunch, aren’t they?

McFribble.2349:

I don’t think I’ve ever heard so much complaining about half a second for a cast time in any MMO I have ever played. GW2 Thieves really are a jaded bunch, aren’t they?

Outstanding generalisation skills. Btw actually I don’t play my thief anymore, just because I found out warrior is much better in every aspect, except for evading angry mobs. Does that mean that warriors are a jaded bunch, since I am against an unjustified and poorly executed nerf?

Revert it, plus remove the 4s reveal in Spvp. Another thing overdue for removal.

I don’t see the big deal with IR being a stunbreak. It not like the Warrior can’t just stun them again or before they set it down. Plus it didn’t remove stun anyways.

Pavel.8531:

McFribble.2349:

I don’t think I’ve ever heard so much complaining about half a second for a cast time in any MMO I have ever played. GW2 Thieves really are a jaded bunch, aren’t they?

Outstanding generalisation skills. Btw actually I don’t play my thief anymore, just because I found out warrior is much better in every aspect, except for evading angry mobs. Does that mean that warriors are a jaded bunch, since I am against an unjustified and poorly executed nerf?

Because God forbid a thief has to actually TIME his hard escapes. Thieves have more than enough escape mechanics for multiple builds, that a 0.5 (ZERO POINT FIVE) cast time is hardly a setback.

McFribble.2349:

Pavel.8531:

McFribble.2349:

I don’t think I’ve ever heard so much complaining about half a second for a cast time in any MMO I have ever played. GW2 Thieves really are a jaded bunch, aren’t they?

Outstanding generalisation skills. Btw actually I don’t play my thief anymore, just because I found out warrior is much better in every aspect, except for evading angry mobs. Does that mean that warriors are a jaded bunch, since I am against an unjustified and poorly executed nerf?

Because God forbid a thief has to actually TIME his hard escapes. Thieves have more than enough escape mechanics for multiple builds, that a 0.5 (ZERO POINT FIVE) cast time is hardly a setback.

Its still an unnecessary set back. I agree that theifs should not be able to use ir when stunned, dazed, or cc but the cast time makes gameplay feel awkward and sluggish. Also there are many others classes that are stronger duelist than thiefs and have a great impact to small and large scale battle then thiefs so the cast time should be removed.

we really need the stun breaker back on IR.
or another way to deal with mass stun .

Blah blah blah, you’re comparing apples and oranges. Are you really serious to talk about the functionality of Sword mesmer? Leap, blurred frenzy, mind wreck. This skill is not used as a defensive tool. Your closest comparison should be phase retreat.

That skill is INSTANT cast, with a cooldown of 10 seconds. Note that YOUR phase retreat illusion casts Winds of Chaos, repeatedly as long as the clone is not killed. Take in mind, thieves IS/IR needs 5 initiative to cast out (5 seconds to regain initiative), both of which takes from a shared initiative pool. OF all the ridiculous things you want to talk about you choose to a “1v1 thief” easily destroys mesmer/ele.

Look at the topic. It says WvW. In an area where a mere 0.01 second interrupt will cancel a thief IR because of the LONG CASTING TIME or 1 second stun will instant KO you, IR with delay is NOT OKAY.

Gosh, people, read the topic.

Ahm, you might wanna take your own advice. We were comparing sword #2 to the two similar skills: phase retreat and illusionary leap.

OF all the ridiculous things you want to talk about you choose to a “1v1 thief” easily destroys mesmer/ele.

Isn’t even true. 1v1 mesmer is as strong as any duel spec. I was mainly refering to tournament pvp where thief is over competent for it’s role. Yes the topic is about wvw but we all know that this kind of pvp/wvw split is out of question.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Blah blah blah, you’re comparing apples and oranges. Are you really serious to talk about the functionality of Sword mesmer? Leap, blurred frenzy, mind wreck. This skill is not used as a defensive tool. Your closest comparison should be phase retreat.

That skill is INSTANT cast, with a cooldown of 10 seconds. Note that YOUR phase retreat illusion casts Winds of Chaos, repeatedly as long as the clone is not killed. Take in mind, thieves IS/IR needs 5 initiative to cast out (5 seconds to regain initiative), both of which takes from a shared initiative pool. OF all the ridiculous things you want to talk about you choose to a “1v1 thief” easily destroys mesmer/ele.

Look at the topic. It says WvW. In an area where a mere 0.01 second interrupt will cancel a thief IR because of the LONG CASTING TIME or 1 second stun will instant KO you, IR with delay is NOT OKAY.

Gosh, people, read the topic.

Ahm, you might wanna take your own advice. We were comparing sword #2 to the two similar skills: phase retreat and illusionary leap.

OF all the ridiculous things you want to talk about you choose to a “1v1 thief” easily destroys mesmer/ele.

Isn’t even true. 1v1 mesmer is as strong as any duel spec. I was mainly refering to tournament pvp where thief is over competent for it’s role. Yes the topic is about wvw but we all know that this kind of pvp/wvw split is out of question.

1) Exactly why the split is out of question? PVP revealed =/= wvw revealed. I expect wvw to have 0 instant casting time. Whether you can use it when you’re stunned is another thing, but the bare minimum is you can absolutely escape a telegraphed stun animation if you spot it. Adding a 0.5 seconds on top of after cast attacks makes it impossible to use it.

2) I never compared Infiltrator’s strike to illusionary leap. Somehow you took it upon yourself to compare a mesmer clone that functions with hybrid builds to add on all sorts of condition. Even better if you’re skilled enough to pretend to pressure the thief into using an evade to escape the leap .

3) Over competent for pvp how? Does picking a thief = auto win? No. Picking a warrior hambow, decap engineer, bunker guardians = them over competent professions. You want to change meta, start with your own profession and ask for buffs. I don’t play as much PvP compared to WvW, but I know certain professions are in a bad place. Thieves are somewhere in the middle, maybe middle upper tier.

In PvP, it definitely needs the cast time. In PvE, and WvW, it goes not.

Would be fine with a range reduction to 600 as Maugetarr pointed out. I’m sure few people would have a problem with thieves teleporting instantly if they were still within your range (with a bit of management).

they will never spilt skills between wvw and pvp :S

but ir has ben hit way to hard by taking the stun breaker .
or if u refuse to give a stun breaker back ir needs a buff

either give the stun breaker back on the sword or.
take the cast time off and up condition removal +1 so u can remove 2 conditions on return.
but the cast time just makes it “impossible” to properly avoid a attack u only have a fraction of a second to react to.
idk i would much rather see the stun breaker back on the sword.
but ir as of now is garbage
needs some kind of fix really bad

the sword can do damage . but a thief weapon set with out defense skills that properly work can quickly be called useless

Doggie.3184:

remove the 4s reveal in Spvp.

This screws me up so bad… it basically prevents me from playing a thief on any sort of competitive level in sPvP. Well, not that I would play it competitively anyways since I’m only so-so at it, but I’m hoping they just make them equal again.

Now if they had just implemented that reveal on all destealth thing they were going to before this weird reveal extended thing, then it all would’ve been fine.