Guild Wars 2

Yeah yeah, I know. Venoms are kitten. But it’s more than just the venoms. It’s also about where they are embedded in the trait trees and the viable weapon sets. I’m mucking about with venoms for the first time since the trait changes and I just can’t see how anet intends them to be used effectively.

For example, venom traits are in shadow arts, but to spec into them you have to give up the two best GM stealth traits – shadow’s rejuv and cloaked in shadow. The lack of shadow’s rejuv hurts a stealthy D/P venom-share support build that otherwise might be good for interrupts, stealth res and sharing, while the lack of cloaked in shadow really hurts a P/D venom-share build.

Also, since you give up so much to spec venoms in shadow arts, you’re pretty much encouraged to fill your utility bar with them. This means you can’t bring any anti-cc or mobility. So when picking a weapon, you have to choose a set with innate mobility. That cuts P/P out. D/P and P/D are out for the reasons above. That leaves, S/D, S/P and SB, none of which make the cut as MH sword cleaves and SB bounces, wasting charges.

So in my mind there are three key issues preventing decent venom share support builds:
1: Trait misplacement – making stealth oriented builds unviable
2: Utility bar clutter – eliminating crucial anti-cc and mobility utility skills
3: No conducive weapon sets – resulting in wasted venom charges

If venom share traits were placed in acro, it would solve problem 1 while giving venom traits an out of the way place to die quietly for those uninterested in taking them.

If sword #2 was still a stunbreak or if SB had better damage, it would solve problem 2, despite the wasted charges.

If… I dunno. Just frickin annoyed with how things are deployed in this game. No wonder there’s only one boring metabuild. It’s almost like the devs don’t really understand their own game.

P/D works fine with Venoms. Your Number 3 is an instant gap, and your number 5 is a stealth gain, where you can pop venoms and drop them with additional bleeds with the Stealth 1. It with SB is more than Mobile enough to get away from enemy players if you need too.

As for the other weapons, D/D, No. You have no easy venom dump, and a set fast is key to causing the opponent to panic and use their Condi Cleans. Same with D/P. D/P is a DPS set and should not be used by a Condition build.
P/P could be argued, but in my opinion, its bad for a Venom build because you lose a great number 3 for your Stealth attack minus the bleeds, and lose your Stealth access for you Sneak attack stacks.
Sword could be argued, but again, I feel like P/D is far better for its ability to put the conditions on from further out. keeping you safe, and

As for the Traits, if your needing more heals than the venoms provide, and your needing allot of condi cleans, then your doing something wrong. Your letting them get too close, letting them get a bead on you too often or standing in AOE’s and not using your dodges properly, or something.. I’ve never had any issues with group stomping with a venom build in WvW and PVE.

For a while now, my group has even considered me as a secondary healing source and a excellent damage boost(proof is in my calling out “Vemons in 5” and everyone charging for me.) Give them a set of venoms, and they go dump them for easy heals.

Tl;DR: Venoms are fine. The problem exists with players wanting them to be what their not.
Honestly, Ive solo’d everything from the camps in Frostgorge Sound, to Grenth’s Priest using a venom build and Thieves guild/Ambush trap, They are fine.

D/D has one of the better venom dumps out there in a Condition build with the use of DB. It superior to p/d inmany respects as if you have two targets under the blossom the venoms will be distributed between the two which can be advantageous over loading all on one.

A d/d DB traited dagger mastery will load 3 bleeds (long lasting) , 4 poisons (spider venom loaded) 3 torments (skale loaded) and three stacks of any other venom on the bar. If these cleansed there is often enough residue to of venoms to load up another stack of the same with a second pass. Further to that it not reliant on an expensive CnD stealth to gain the sneak attack or having to trait a stealth utility on the utility bar to do that venom dump.

The evade allows a heal and the build of vigor (if traited) along wth a condition cleanse and any other proc on evade abilities and that you are NOT at range allows Impaling lotus to hit its target much more frequently than on P/d. Further too that impairing daggers up close is much more likely to hit its target. That one pass venom dump will also allow you to switch the next attack chain to the AA which will load more poison and regen endurance to help towards another impaling lotus.

There certainly advantages to P/d such as that range and staying out of AOE circles and the torment from the build but “rapid venom loading” is not one of them.

As to the share and healing you quite right. The other night I was on my thief fighting one of those legendary wyverrns (using SB for the most part yes P/d superior here) when it became quite evident that the current group would not muster the damge needed to kill in the time limit. I pulled out and switched up to share and loaded the bar with venoms and this added greatly to the groups damage (and heal) ability.

Honestly, I think ANet could make a world of difference to venoms if they would just add a stunbreak to one of them…

If they did that, then you’d have the base ability to clear conditions (from SA line) and break stun, which is needed for any viable PvP build.

I actually wonder if it would help if they had a significant internal cooldown (1-2 seconds) and increased the stacks by 1, but only for yours not for ones you share.

I dunno what build your using but I’ve been going full burst with venom share for a few months now and it’s really good with D/P soloing or in team fights, gives great sustain and control to myself and my team. I’d love to help you out if you want.

Don’t use venoms until they are redesigned. They are:
- boring,
- ineffective.

babazhook.6805:

D/D has one of the better venom dumps out there in a Condition build with the use of DB. It superior to p/d inmany respects as if you have two targets under the blossom the venoms will be distributed between the two which can be advantageous over loading all on one.

A d/d DB traited dagger mastery will load 3 bleeds (long lasting) , 4 poisons (spider venom loaded) 3 torments (skale loaded) and three stacks of any other venom on the bar. If these cleansed there is often enough residue to of venoms to load up another stack of the same with a second pass. Further to that it not reliant on an expensive CnD stealth to gain the sneak attack or having to trait a stealth utility on the utility bar to do that venom dump.

The evade allows a heal and the build of vigor (if traited) along wth a condition cleanse and any other proc on evade abilities and that you are NOT at range allows Impaling lotus to hit its target much more frequently than on P/d. Further too that impairing daggers up close is much more likely to hit its target. That one pass venom dump will also allow you to switch the next attack chain to the AA which will load more poison and regen endurance to help towards another impaling lotus.

There certainly advantages to P/d such as that range and staying out of AOE circles and the torment from the build but “rapid venom loading” is not one of them.

As to the share and healing you quite right. The other night I was on my thief fighting one of those legendary wyverrns (using SB for the most part yes P/d superior here) when it became quite evident that the current group would not muster the damge needed to kill in the time limit. I pulled out and switched up to share and loaded the bar with venoms and this added greatly to the groups damage (and heal) ability.

Ok, I like D/D’s bleed option. It’s nice to have there when you want to fight a group, But I typically use my bow for groups of enemy. Poison’s are really under rated since the Cond update. But I still say that when it comes to single target saturation, P/D can’t be beat. Its ranged, so Its far harder to get away from, They have a far harder time dodging out of it, and then there’s my fav combo chain: CD>Sneak attack>Shadow strike>Steal>Shadow strike, everything after the SA can be triggered at the blink of an eye, and IMO, the 4 torment gain from it beats out the bleeds in a Player Vs Player situation where they wont even think about standing still(Double Damage FTW!)

And if you were cleaver enough to force them to waste their Cond Cleans, you really messed them up with that, as well as put your self out of melee range.
Plus, again, The ability to solo things. There is something truly satisfying about soloing a fight with the Grenth Priest.

Make them produce non-pulsing combo fields and they will stop sucking.

Personally I feel venom traits would be better suited in the deadly arts traitline. Thematically, deadly arts is about poisons and such, so having venom based traits would fit well I think. I have the following trait swaps that I think would help here:

Swap Revealed Training (Deadly Arts) with Leeching Venoms (Shadow Arts)
Swap Executioner (Deadly Arts) with Venomous Aura (Shadow Arts)

To me, Revealed Training and Executioner are more thematically suited to Shadow Arts, and Leeching Venoms and Venomous Aura would be more thematically fitting to Deadly Arts.

What do you guys think? Shadows Arts may become more powerful from this, but it would free up traitlines, giving us more build flexibility in my opinion.