Guild Wars 2

Having this trait on and stealing on someone with multiple stacks of might will only grant you 1 stack, unlike arcane thievery from mesmer for example which actually grants you 3 oons regardless of how many stacks they have?

So shouldn’t bountiful theft also steal a full stack of might since it’s considered 1 boon when using the mesmer boon stealing utility?

This is normal.
In my eyes is BT the weakest skill that steal something and unlike Arcane Thievery, have the stealing boons from BT (and FS) only a duration of ~5 secs.

Black Teagan.9215:

This is normal.
In my eyes is BT the weakest skill that steal something and unlike Arcane Thievery, have the stealing boons from BT (and FS) only a duration of ~5 secs.

..what?

Caedalade to the rescue! Allow me to translate the following into English:

Black Teagan.9215:

This is normal.
In my eyes is BT the weakest skill that steal something and unlike Arcane Thievery, have the stealing boons from BT (and FS) only a duration of ~5 secs.

Basically what he’s saying is that Bountiful Theft seems to be the weakest of all boon steals in the game as far as I can gather.

Now, my opinion. Bountiful theft boon steals last 3 seconds. Might is the last priority on this boon rip, as you will take every boon before you take might. That being said the situations where you can utilize might stacks on a target become minimal, and the amount you can do in 3 seconds further delay the effect of stealing might. My intuition on their reasoning for the way Bountiful Theft operates in the game tells me that they did not want thieves to be able to steal 25 stacks of might when using Steal because that is a very typical part of a heavy burst rotation. If thieves were able to steal that much might in the middle of their rotation then their burst would be far too high (enough to one shot most bunkers on a full glass build). That’s bad for the game.

Just my thoughts, hope that helps.

Cheers,

Caed

As a boon steal it’s a bit crippled compared to most others. But in combination with Daze on Steal it becomes an instant 1-button Stability stomp counter, which is very powerful, especially considering with that trait setup it comes with a 21.5s cooldown.

Kaon.7192:

As a boon steal it’s a bit crippled compared to most others. But in combination with Daze on Steal it becomes an instant 1-button Stability stomp counter, which is very powerful, especially considering with that trait setup it comes with a 21.5s cooldown.

Ding ding! We have a winner. Main reason I run it.

Narcarsis.5739:

Kaon.7192:

As a boon steal it’s a bit crippled compared to most others. But in combination with Daze on Steal it becomes an instant 1-button Stability stomp counter, which is very powerful, especially considering with that trait setup it comes with a 21.5s cooldown.

Ding ding! We have a winner. Main reason I run it.

More the only reason to use it.

Actually, mesmers have a better and stronger steal skill than thieves and this without 20 traitpoints. It were enough could we steal (more) boons with their full duration, only to be more an effective class against boonbunker.

If you think that’s the only reason to use it you highly under-rate the effect of vigor.

Ok I had forget vigor, but I talk more about the thief and his role as a debuff and antibunker class.

That’s a very niche role the class can play, there are far more things it can do in the right hands. Vigor is arguably the strongest boon in the game however – not something small, especially 10-15 seconds of it. Not only that it applies boons you steal to other classes. The small window that you steal stability in can ensure a safe stomp or res for an ally, not just a daze. It also removes protection and aegis when you burst allowing you to fully maximize your damage without having to wait for certain conditions.

There are many reasons to take the trait in my opinion, not just stealing stab to daze.

I was just thinking about this as well.

In my opinion, I really do wish it worked like arcane thievery, as it would allow smarter plays with steal. It’s also a way of countering a lot of cheese, I.E loads of stability of warriors, plague form stability, 15-25stacks of might, etc. I think if you are going to be walking around with 15-25stacks of might, there should be a risk involved, and the risk could be that a thief could steal all of it and use it against you. That’s assuming IF they can steal it because let’s face it…a lot of random dodges happen and steal can easily miss. Risk vs reward is a good thing in my book.

Example: If a warrior popped balance stance and I stole it from him with the duration, I’d get 8s of stability which I could use against him. It would make fights a lot more interesting and would allow counter-play against the current meta hambow wars where if you get hit by a stun without a stunbreak, you’re pretty much dead as a thief.

Also, say, a necro decides to plague form on point – he gets 20s of stability. If you are able to steal that from him for your team, it would be tremendously helpful and a counter play because he chose to pop plague with a thief around so he should be able to be punished instead of having stability for 20s and being able to hold a point for a long while.

The 3s of whatever boon you steal from the enemy just doesn’t seem sufficient. I’d be happy with a few more seconds if not the full duration. And stacks…STACKS!

Amaterasu.6280:

I was just thinking about this as well.

In my opinion, I really do wish it worked like arcane thievery, as it would allow smarter plays with steal. It’s also a way of countering a lot of cheese, I.E loads of stability of warriors, plague form stability, 15-25stacks of might, etc. I think if you are going to be walking around with 15-25stacks of might, there should be a risk involved, and the risk could be that a thief could steal all of it and use it against you. That’s assuming IF they can steal it because let’s face it…a lot of random dodges happen and steal can easily miss. Risk vs reward is a good thing in my book.

Example: If a warrior popped balance stance and I stole it from him with the duration, I’d get 8s of stability which I could use against him. It would make fights a lot more interesting and would allow counter-play against the current meta hambow wars where if you get hit by a stun without a stunbreak, you’re pretty much dead as a thief.

Also, say, a necro decides to plague form on point – he gets 20s of stability. If you are able to steal that from him for your team, it would be tremendously helpful and a counter play because he chose to pop plague with a thief around so he should be able to be punished instead of having stability for 20s and being able to hold a point for a long while.

The 3s of whatever boon you steal from the enemy just doesn’t seem sufficient. I’d be happy with a few more seconds if not the full duration. And stacks…STACKS!

I’m against this. It would move it to a Grandmaster trait, and there’s nothing else I’d want in master – I’d take Sleight of Hand over Bountiful in that case as well. Bad idea in my opinion.

Narcarsis.5739:

Amaterasu.6280:

I was just thinking about this as well.

In my opinion, I really do wish it worked like arcane thievery, as it would allow smarter plays with steal. It’s also a way of countering a lot of cheese, I.E loads of stability of warriors, plague form stability, 15-25stacks of might, etc. I think if you are going to be walking around with 15-25stacks of might, there should be a risk involved, and the risk could be that a thief could steal all of it and use it against you. That’s assuming IF they can steal it because let’s face it…a lot of random dodges happen and steal can easily miss. Risk vs reward is a good thing in my book.

Example: If a warrior popped balance stance and I stole it from him with the duration, I’d get 8s of stability which I could use against him. It would make fights a lot more interesting and would allow counter-play against the current meta hambow wars where if you get hit by a stun without a stunbreak, you’re pretty much dead as a thief.

Also, say, a necro decides to plague form on point – he gets 20s of stability. If you are able to steal that from him for your team, it would be tremendously helpful and a counter play because he chose to pop plague with a thief around so he should be able to be punished instead of having stability for 20s and being able to hold a point for a long while.

The 3s of whatever boon you steal from the enemy just doesn’t seem sufficient. I’d be happy with a few more seconds if not the full duration. And stacks…STACKS!

I’m against this. It would move it to a Grandmaster trait, and there’s nothing else I’d want in master – I’d take Sleight of Hand over Bountiful in that case as well. Bad idea in my opinion.

But your choice is also linked to another problem – we’re pretty much forced to go 30 into trickery now. It’s bad enough that we HAVE to go 30 into our crit line because otherwise you’d do horrendous physical damage. Sleight of hand with the 20% steal reduction is just so good, that any other trait line just seems underpowered when it comes to playing d/p glass.

If the 20% steal reduction was moved elsewhere I think it’d open up more builds. The daze is just a bonus let’s be honest…I’ve used 10/30/0/0/30 before the sleight of hand buff and it was nowhere near as strong as it is now. There were more choices before like 25/30/0/0/15 or 10/30/0/30/0 or 10/30/30, but right now all the other choices are just not as effective compared to 30 in trickery for 20% steal recharge.

Two things are wrong with what you’ve said. First being “forced” to go 30 into trickery. You aren’t forced to do anything – in fact there are countless builds I’ve doubt you’ve even tried. People see someone make something work and they flock to it without checking other options. Just because one thing suits someone’s playstyle and they are efficient with it does not mean it’s the best – it merely suggests that a player has found a build that tailors to the way they behave. People are lazy, they see success in others and try to imitate it instead of finding success themselves. Instead of assuming that a build is the only (or worse yet, will be the only) viable build find out how you play and tailor something to that. After which you can tweak accordingly. Even worse to this people try something and fail, so they assume that it’s the build when in fact it’s a player skill issue. Just because something didn’t work the one time you tried it doesn’t mean it doesn’t work at all.

Second, you assume that Deadly Arts builds aren’t viable. However they will probably make a return to the meta depending on what happens and the team compositions players choose. Deadly Arts builds have a key counter to burst builds: weakness. It’s abundant. You can spam poison which in turn spams weakness onto enemies. To top it all off it has higher burst and one of my favorite traits: Improvisation. If you think this build isn’t viable or is weaker than Sleight of Hand then you’re misinformed. The reason Trickery builds were more prevalent than Deadly Arts builds were due to a heavy condition meta where weakness was generally useless and thieves needed the extra survivability from the Mug/Sleight of Hand combo.

Anyway – you can think what you want. Just be open minded and don’t assume anything. The patch hasn’t even hit yet. Ignorance is bliss~

Narcarsis.5739:

Two things are wrong with what you’ve said. First being “forced” to go 30 into trickery. You aren’t forced to do anything – in fact there are countless builds I’ve doubt you’ve even tried. People see someone make something work and they flock to it without checking other options. Just because one thing suits someone’s playstyle and they are efficient with it does not mean it’s the best – it merely suggests that a player has found a build that tailors to the way they behave. People are lazy, they see success in others and try to imitate it instead of finding success themselves. Instead of assuming that a build is the only (or worse yet, will be the only) viable build find out how you play and tailor something to that. After which you can tweak accordingly. Even worse to this people try something and fail, so they assume that it’s the build when in fact it’s a player skill issue. Just because something didn’t work the one time you tried it doesn’t mean it doesn’t work at all.

Second, you assume that Deadly Arts builds aren’t viable. However they will probably make a return to the meta depending on what happens and the team compositions players choose. Deadly Arts builds have a key counter to burst builds: weakness. It’s abundant. You can spam poison which in turn spams weakness onto enemies. To top it all off it has higher burst and one of my favorite traits: Improvisation. If you think this build isn’t viable or is weaker than Sleight of Hand then you’re misinformed. The reason Trickery builds were more prevalent than Deadly Arts builds were due to a heavy condition meta where weakness was generally useless and thieves needed the extra survivability from the Mug/Sleight of Hand combo.

Anyway – you can think what you want. Just be open minded and don’t assume anything. The patch hasn’t even hit yet. Ignorance is bliss~

Sure, if you want to put it like that, no one is forced to play any build. But Caed – answer me 1 thing after reading all of that:

In tourneys, why isn’t anyone using the other build’s that you say are viable right now? Do you feel it’s because people are lazy and/or did you single handedly dictated the d/p meta build to be 10/30/0/030 since people claim that’s the “caed build” so it must be amazing?

I’m pretty sure you yourself have been using 10/30/0/0/30 since sleight of hand buff. You are sure as hell not forced to play 10/30/0/0/30 but what’s stopping you from using the other builds? Surely if you want to talk about tailoring a build to one’s style of play, not everyone should end up using the same build? There are good thieves around, and they theory craft all the time, there should be a reason why they end up with pretty much the same build?

I’m open minded when it comes to thief builds, sure – but I also know that there are just certain builds that are above others right now in a tourney setting. If you want to talk strictly builds that are “viable” overall in hotjoins or solo Q, then yea you can play anything. But a meta build is a meta build, there is a reason for it.

Why are rangers playing spirit rangers, why are warriors playing hambow? They are definitely not forced into it, but if you want to win, you are pretty much “forced” to play a certain build because of the meta. You could argue it’s a player issue, but that’s a whole other discussion.

I found Bountiful theft a god send when I ran trickery S/P many eons ago.
For my perspective, Bountiful theft isn’t really about stealing boons, that is flavor. What it’s really about is counterplay to the absurdity of boon duration/spam professions can put out, giving you a window of vulnerability that you can capitalize on.

How many Guardians I used to see pop Stability and because of Bountiful theft I could Haste+ PW them regardless for the kill which otherwise I would have been denied. Elementalists hiding in Armor of earth back when they were one of the top dogs, and I could tell them to go to hell in a hand basket.
It’s a phenomenal trait (if only due to scarcity) that is already a strong choice if you want to go in Trickery.

Amaterasu.6280:

Sure, if you want to put it like that, no one is forced to play any build. But Caed – answer me 1 thing after reading all of that:

In tourneys, why isn’t anyone using the other builds that you say are viable right now? Do you feel it’s because people are lazy and/or did you single handedly dictated the d/p meta build to be 10/30/0/030 since people claim that’s the “caed build” so it must be amazing?

I’m pretty sure you yourself have been using 10/30/0/0/30 since sleight of hand buff. You are sure as hell not forced to play 10/30/0/0/30 but what’s stopping you from using the other builds? Surely if you want to talk about tailoring a build to one’s style of play, not everyone should end up using the same build? There are good thieves around, and they theory craft all the time, there should be a reason why they end up with pretty much the same build?

I’m open minded when it comes to thief builds, sure – but I also know that there are just certain builds that are above others right now in a tourney setting. If you want to talk strictly builds that are “viable” overall in hotjoins or solo Q, then yea you can play anything. But a meta build is a meta build, there is a reason for it.

Why are rangers playing spirit rangers, why are warriors playing hambow? They are definitely not forced into it, but if you want to win, you are pretty much “forced” to play a certain build because of the meta. You could argue it’s a player issue, but that’s a whole other discussion.

I told you why, if you’re that daft and choose to ignore what I say I can’t help you. As for why I use the build I made that’s pretty self explanatory. I made and stuck with it because it suits me, it’s how I play.

As for Spirit Rangers, they are forced into it. Everything else is mediocre in comparison to what spirits does. Warriors on the other hand, you claim they’re all Ham/Bow but that’s not even true. You see Double Sword/Longbow condition bunkers, Ham/Bow, GS/Bow, Sword Warhorn/Mace Shield bunker… I can keep going. I don’t only see Ham/Bow.

And to close it out, you say there are a number of good thieves around. I’ll be the prick and just say it – There’s not.