Guild Wars 2

I was reading the general forums and apparently the general concensus is that thief is worthless as a commander because he can not be in front of the group directing where to go…?

Is this true, do we have any builds to effectively command a 50 man zerg?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Which-proffesion-for-commander-tag/first#post2365968

I’m a thief commander but I’m a pretty terrible commander and in a low tier server. I just go to a fully contested side of the map, take out a few camps and guards, then turn my tag on so my minions can take the towers. I have successfully commanded taking keeps but that was more of me telling people what to do and when to move and them listening while I mass stealth some and surprise attack. Even if you’re invis behind the enemy, people will follow the tag and charge with you. You just need to be certain you’ll survive when you open with your allies.

Nope.

I have only ever seen one thief commander.

The primary goal of a commander should always be: stay alive. While this is certainly something that thieves can excel at, it creates a problem for commanders, because thieves don’t have easy access to massive heals or boons that help keep you alive without being mobile and stealthy. Mobility is a problem, because you need your zerg to be able to follow you, so you can’t be too mobile, or you confuse the zerg. Stealth is an issue because a good zerg tries to stack on the commander, and aoe will still hit you, stealth or no.

So a good commander is one that can facetank, and wade into the midst of a battle. Guardians do this well, but so do Elementalists and mesmers. They have enough damage mitigation and heals to get past all the damage and cc that they would otherwise be taking. Having tried to play a tanky thief, I know that this is just not possible on the thief. Tanky buys you a very small amount of time as a thief, but at some point, you still need to pull out and reset, which again does not work for a commander.

Just started commanding a week ago on my thief, and I don’t see the problem, unless you want to play as a massive steamroll zerg, which is quite boring imo. A proper group that knows how to communicate can have anything as a commander, and thief is not excluded. We can step out of the battle to command on demand, we mass stealth and we can stay in a just overtaken tower/keep with permastealth to recap it. But to be honest, class is a fraction of what really matters as a commander. The player is what matters.

Irapi.5937:

Just started commanding a week ago on my thief, and I don’t see the problem, unless you want to play as a massive steamroll zerg, which is quite boring imo. A proper group that knows how to communicate can have anything as a commander, and thief is not excluded. We can step out of the battle to command on demand, we mass stealth and we can stay in a just overtaken tower/keep with permastealth to recap it. But to be honest, class is a fraction of what really matters as a commander. The player is what matters.

The OP asked about commanding a 50+ zerg. That 50+zerg will be going up against other huge zergs, and although apparently some commanders pride themselves on commanding from the side or back-lines. It still seems to be the norm that a commander is leading the front-lines. With that in mind, there is no way that a thief can fulfill this function better than other professions.

bobross.5034:

Irapi.5937:

Just started commanding a week ago on my thief, and I don’t see the problem, unless you want to play as a massive steamroll zerg, which is quite boring imo. A proper group that knows how to communicate can have anything as a commander, and thief is not excluded. We can step out of the battle to command on demand, we mass stealth and we can stay in a just overtaken tower/keep with permastealth to recap it. But to be honest, class is a fraction of what really matters as a commander. The player is what matters.

The OP asked about commanding a 50+ zerg. That 50+zerg will be going up against other huge zergs, and although apparently some commanders pride themselves on commanding from the side or back-lines. It still seems to be the norm that a commander is leading the front-lines. With that in mind, there is no way that a thief can fulfill this function better than other professions.

You are right there, yet I still don’t see the difference between a full bunker guardian doing 0 damage and a stealthed thief. Add to this that, as stated, the no. 1 for commanders is staying alive, a thief has by far the best escape mechanics. A 50+ zerg can crush a front line bunker, but can’t find a stealthed thief.

I want to be leading the massive steamroll zerg.

0-10-30-30-0, full PVT armor, Knight’s accessories, signet of malice.

Initiate every fight with spin2win, and spam clusterbomb throughout the fight. Keep a stunbreaker handy on your utility bar and you’ll never die before your zerg does.

Excalibur.9748:

I want to be leading the massive steamroll zerg.

I hate every kind of meta, but in this case I will have to say guardian. I myself would still play the thief for it, and even tough I can survive, people will not like it. If you love your thief as much as I do tough, just run with your guild. They are more forgiving, and they automatically respect you more, even if you stand in the back.

Irapi.5937:

Excalibur.9748:

I want to be leading the massive steamroll zerg.

I hate every kind of meta, but in this case I will have to say guardian. I myself would still play the thief for it, and even tough I can survive, people will not like it. If you love your thief as much as I do tough, just run with your guild. They are more forgiving, and they automatically respect you more, even if you stand in the back.

I’ve tried making another character (like elementalist or guardian), but I only get as far as getting them to lv3-lv4.

I’m a thief 4 life, playing another character for commander isn’t in the deck of cards.

Firstly, I’m no expert on venom share builds, I think most of them are made for
condition dmg and healing power(?), but I prefer direct dmg when attacking zergs with SB.

So made this build because I was bored.
And it looks pretty interesting from my point of view. It’s untested
and I have no clue if it’s viable, so I’ll post it anyways to see what you
other thieves think.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQFAVlYmaPXaS1E+5EB3DjC1nqz4m2s/AXB-jUyAYLAiAQyTZN7JIWzKiGreBTVKkqLjs3oIa1CBMaBA-w

Pros:
Sharing venoms to nearby allies granting them lifesteal and might.
Perma swiftness + AoE swiftness every 15 seconds from the heal.
Decent defensive stats.
Evasive with vigor every 15 seconds from heal and endurance return on dodges.
Poison field and AoE damage from the shortbow.

Cons:
low crit dmg
low access to stealth
low initiative regen
No access to fury.
No condition removal.

Left 2nd weapon set empty, but preferably D/P for escaping or an other
weapon set with access to stealth.

I can survive big zerg fights commanding or not without abusing stealth with the support of others and I’ve got good DPS, good mobility, a good amount of armor and HP with the addition of bloodlust and a Sigil of Fire, so it’s not impossible..

Thief is not a good commander class. A thief survives in Z vs Z by floating on the outskirts of a battle. You CAN NOT lead a zerg train into another zerg train as a thief, no matter how you build. If you want to command, roll and Guardian, Warrior or Necro.

Sarrow.2785:

Thief is not a good commander class. A thief survives in Z vs Z by floating on the outskirts of a battle. You CAN NOT lead a zerg train into another zerg train as a thief, no matter how you build. If you want to command, roll and Guardian, Warrior or Necro.

I will not be rolling guardian, warrior, or necro just for the purpose of commanding. I’m also on TC so you will have to deal with a thief commanding

Still, it’s disappointing to hear the old mantra of every class can do everything…and then you have only 3 classes that are capable of doing it…
Hopefully the thief gets some buffs by then to make commanding viable.

The thief has been continuously been pressured into a single role, the burst-and-run role. The less viable wear-em-down condition role does work to a certain extend as well, but both these rokitten il down to the same thing — roaming. It is possible to survive on the front-line following a commander with a mix between damage and survivability (Zeker/Knight/Valkyrie), but this relies a lot on abusing the area-of-effect limit to have others getting hit, and shadow-stepping once you’re in the hit list. It’s not suitable for commander style, unless you’re not a front-line pushing commander.

The idea that was at the very foundation of this game, the ability to use any profession to fulfill any role, has been disregarded by the whack-a-mole balance philosophy and continuous shifting meta OP class and the absurd defense over offense strategy. Unless the developers finally decide to punish bad players for blobbing around by removing the area-of-effect limitation, you’ll always be expected to be a front-line pusher as commander.

Oh I can deal with it. I know how to fight and stay alive and I know how I can best contribute without being shown. Its the simple fact that if you led a zerg into another zerg as a thief, you would die during the first pass. Without a commander to follow, the train would shatter, each going their own way. Im allowed to flit on the fringe of battle because thats my job. But if everybody did that, ie, the commander just went down and there was chaos, it wouldn’t result in a win.

Ive followed a thief commander before during a seige and it was the perfect example. He couldnt lead the group into the AoE to initiate the fight because he knew he would die and the zerg would collapse. It was a stalemate. It might work with small group ops or during off peak times, but as soon as you switch the icon on you never know how many zerglings you will attract.

Sarrow.2785:

Oh I can deal with it. I know how to fight and stay alive and I know how I can best contribute without being shown. Its the simple fact that if you led a zerg into another zerg as a thief, you would die during the first pass. Without a commander to follow, the train would shatter, each going their own way. Im allowed to flit on the fringe of battle because thats my job. But if everybody did that, ie, the commander just went down and there was chaos, it wouldn’t result in a win.

Ive followed a thief commander before during a seige and it was the perfect example. He couldnt lead the group into the AoE to initiate the fight because he knew he would die and the zerg would collapse. It was a stalemate. It might work with small group ops or during off peak times, but as soon as you switch the icon on you never know how many zerglings you will attract.

Well if he’s a berserker thief, then I’m not suprised if he can’t lead the pain train. With a more balanced build and dagger storm I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to push into the enemy horde. I do it quite often now and no problems. Even without dagger storm I can be at the frontlines with the shortbow with relatively no risk. Obviously the main issue is people don’t really target me as often as they should, however everyone and their mom will be targeting me once I have the commander buff (which they should remove…makes it too obvious)

The answer is: roll a guardian. If I die when following a thief commander around, it would be my own fault.

The only other class that really shouldn’t lead a zerg, in my opinion, is Mesmer.

You might try ranger or engineer. They can be played a little more like a thief, but with tons of survivability possible.

I’ve seen a few good mesmer commanders on my server and a few good thief commanders like me that aren’t zerker and don’t die as easily as you think, esp if you keep your zerg close together

It’s basic but vital zerg strategy, I’ve not really noticed many Ranger or engineer commanders around, otherwise its the usual Guardians and Warriors meta.

I’d say do what RAM from Yak’s Bend does. Go Soldiers, build to survive. If you get a big enough zerg, it doesn’t matter how much damage they do individually, but if they’re glass, they’re rally fodder. Keep your zerg tight on you, and when you encounter an enemy zerg, charge right through them without stopping to ensure you made a kill. There’s a lot more to know but that’s all basic commander strategies.

I have commanded as a thief for a week now and find very little problem that is class related. My biggest problem is lack of skilled players for backup. I say push through and the people just don’t always push, stranding me and the three other people who listen on the other side of the Zerg. A good build to run is high regen. I like using my Karka destroyer bow (called “Crustacea”, I got it from a Karla champ I killed with two other people) and having signet of malice and assassins reward, giving awesome heal per cluster bomb. Even the basic attack I great in a zerg vs Zerg fight. The aoe and healing per hit is very hard to counter, and, last case scenario, dagger storm cripples and heals like no other while bouncing bleed and 2k crits.

I run 0/30/20/20/0. Pretty effective, the only necessary traits are executioner on criterial strikes, which works great in zergs because many people get below 50% pretty fast, so you get a heavy damage boost. Second is assassins reward, which is awesome because spamming cluster bomb is amazing damage and heal with just SoM, and is even better with Assasins reward.

assassin’s reward is about to be buffed, what kind of changes do you want to make to your build?

You could do fine survival wise in soldier armor and signet of malice w/ whatever build you’re using if you want to make absolute sure you don’t die. One main issue for a Thief commander in large scale battles is we have no access to stability to lead charges into and through zergs of enemies. There’s Daggerstorm but it has long CD and disables all your other functions.

I don’t really use my tag unless I want to draw people to a specific point for something~ then I turn it off when it’s finished. I do however follow other commanders pretty tight and do fine on the front line~ mainly because of my ability to be the first into the battle and the first to escape, if need be. This won’t be as enjoyable/possible after Sword nerf though and all I got is Shadowstep utility, which will be nerfed too. I use S/D 10/30/0/0/30~ very offensive hit/mutilate and retreat style with team support buff spam, catching runners and ripping boons. Malice, Shadowstep, Infiltrator Signet and Agility Signet/whatever else u wanna use. TOo much fun atm to use anything else, till Dec 10 probably kills it.

Before you get discouraged.

I started to play Guild Wars 2 around last hallowen, I leveled my thief within a week, got hooked on EB, I was/am on FSP. within 3 weeks i had tag on my thief(earned by solo roaming capping camps and sentries on borderlandes along with other events lots of play time). meanwhile i was working on a new build for that purpose.

result i had was 2 builds,

1 extremely good sustain, high inta, buffs but extremely poor in 1vs1.

2 decent sustain, normal inta, no buffs, good mobilty strong in outnumbered fights and leading zerg(less clusterbomb spam and heal but more mobilty) (my fav)

I have taken a lot in my time leading on thief, and i have done it for over 300 hours(have had a break on 6 months due to work but back and still going)

biggest con, you dont really add much to the zerg.

I run soldiers with cele trinkets and runes of divnity/traveler,

x-30-30-x-x

I do suggest main weapon Shortbow rune of restro(for leading) best sigil for zerg fights

d-d or s-d depending on prefence.

but you need to know your class such has steal certain classes for example water field.. good or using smoke field with some experienced warriors to hide their backline and help secure yours from fire.

this is just my 5 cent..since i dislike hate being made by most on thief commanders :<

Thief gets huge nerf with opportunist in zergs. Good luck spamming cluster after dec 10

Bacon-winged blue-dorito unicorn GO!

I’ve been at it for a long time, You can get by with pretty much any build using 30 Shadow Arts. Shadow’s Rejuvenation and Shadow’s Embrace are 100% needed.

The key is to dive into the enemy zerg, ordering your zerg to pile on top of your tag. as you go in stealth yourself in the midst of the enemies backline. Your zerg will come crashing down on top of them while you remain safe for the most part.

Once the battle heats up of course the rest is up to your own skill, but using stealth in thos fights can make commanding very easy. (i.e. I like to get in the enemy backline, throw down SR and take the time to type out my commands.)

I suggest D/D or S/d with 30 shadow arts, alocating the rest of the points anywhere you want. Cloak and Dagger is very easy to hit when you have that many targets so offhand dagger is a must.