Guild Wars 2

Some pre-info:

• I do not consider myself good at playing thief; I’m definitely below average
• Mostly familiar with p/d condi thief
• I am currently giving the meta-build “Thief – S/D Roamer” a go and it’s very fun
• Been playing the profession & the 2 builds a lot more lately to get better at it

What is my issue?

I have accepted the fact that the thief profession requires quite the amount of skill to play; it’s very squishy and I die. A lot. Obviously I’m not pro at it but I would like to educate myself more and am doing so by exploring different builds and roaming around with them etc.

When roaming I usually encounter rangers. Everyone and their mum’s brown dog seems to be a ranger these days and I can see why. Pressing #2 is seriously the easiest thing in the world to do whilst you watch your victim’s health drop faster than Jesus on wheels.

• I main a ranger. 90% full zerker. It is indeed fun but clearly NOT on the receiving end.

Thus being the thief on the receiving end is rather depressing, especially when the ranger catches you by surprise or more often than not; being stealthed yet the RF skill still channels through it which gives away your position anyway whilst chewing away at your health.

I try to shadow step to them using the Sword #2 skill, then the Signet that lets you shadowstep, steal to interrupt anything but more often than not they’ve already knocked me back and started the RF skill before I can get too close and my health is pretty much half gone. This is sadly where I know I panic a bit and press skills I shouldn’t but it’s also difficult when they pull out that greatsword with the oh-so-convenient aa evade-chain and I miss CnD quite frequently and during this whole time they’ve probably swapped back to their machine gun longbow with the Stone signet activated and god knows whatever their pet has done to me in the meantime.

So, to make things brief – do YOU have any tips vs rangers in general/ranger rapid fire?

• I acknowledge the use of Daggerstorm to reflect ranger longbow attacks but that’s a long CD skill and I prefer Bas Venom in case I encounter anything else

Other info:

• I frequently chase but forget my surroundings/safety get-aways
• Often indirectly lured into AoE damage (cannons, NPCs etc and this is the worst, irritating thing)

Any help/tips is greatly appreciated. Feel free to discuss this topic also.

It takes one to know one. Since you main ranger I guess you should know better than most of us. But in general I feel whoever catches the other by surprise wins. however ranger can recover easier than thief I reckon. thief’s option is normally to burn all cds to run away hence you can’t Really fight back.

So my advice is to fight like a thief. Stealth is the key and watch your surroundings more often.

i play a d/d and d/p build currently so I don’t have as many evades as you would so my approach is different. If I can I go for the daze on pistol 4 but if not I either blow both dodges or use my withdraw halfway through to heal back the dmg i took and evade the rest. After that I just unleash my yolo dps cannons and fire upon the poor kitten.

If I see them not whipping out the GS and staying in LB I will try to CnD chain off on him hoping he misses 2 right after i stealth or something of the sort and to burn him down.

With all the evades you have and having mained a ranger, you should be able to avoid point blank shot and rapid fire. Use his pet, ambients, or your utilities to stealth to engage him. Once you are close you should have no problem staying in melee range with all the gap closers you have available.

Jim Hunter.6821:

With all the evades you have and having mained a ranger, you should be able to avoid point blank shot and rapid fire. Use his pet, ambients, or your utilities to stealth to engage him. Once you are close you should have no problem staying in melee range with all the gap closers you have available.

Yes, all the gap closers are very handy but I’ve noticed my judgement is very terrible but I usually use them in this order:

1. Sword #2 skill
2. Signet that shadow steps
3. Steal if close enough or the shadow step utility

Sometimes I accidentally press the sword #2 return skill and then that puts me at a very bad disadvantage as I’m once again out of range.. but I’m working on it, haha.

I forgot that I can stealth off certain things around me, the pet is very annoying as it gets close while I’m out of distance so I’ll try to CnD off it next time, thank you.

Heng Rai.4826:

It takes one to know one. Since you main ranger I guess you should know better than most of us. But in general I feel whoever catches the other by surprise wins. however ranger can recover easier than thief I reckon. thief’s option is normally to burn all cds to run away hence you can’t Really fight back.

So my advice is to fight like a thief. Stealth is the key and watch your surroundings more often.

Yeah, currently I notice a lot luring out into the open and that’s where I get stuck because once I don’t have something to run behind I’m definitely dead. Trying to learn from my mistakes, heh. Thank you.

use steal either when they are using their heal skill (only if they’re going to die soon after that like 50%) or when he’s using rapid fire and you don’t have anything else
try to keep close to him & pressure him
start with your infiltrator strike on a place where you can retreat from his arrows
move around him so he has a harder time positioning
dodge when you’re on his way to him

i’m playing d/p so I thought what I would do if i was playing s/d. maybe its wrong dont knwo

I generally try and get one good burst in them before they pop signet of stone, and then I back off a little. Most usually combo signet of stone with LB 5, which actually hurts like hell, so do be mindful of it. Nonetheless, I usually just CnD off the pet until the signet wears off, then I go in for the kill. If they knock you back, you need to infiltrator’s singet + CnD ASAP. Also, if you see them switch to GS be extremely careful as that GS 2 hits like a truck. If they’re using entangle, break that root right away otherwise you’ll be caught in a very very bad spot. Because of entangle alone, I highly recommend running withdraw, as it’ll essentially negate the elite. I think another major thing is realizing when a LB ranger knows what they’re doing. If you can tell that a LB ranger is on the dumber side, just wipe them out (they generally stand still with their LB out). However, if you see that they’re actively using their GS when they should be rather than just Pew Pew’ing with the LB out, be more cautious. D/P is very effective against them due to the blinds and interrupt on the 4 skill, so I suggest possibly having d/p equipped as your secondary set.

Trait for long reach in trickery. Evade the initial RF then stealth. Use long reach to get in range. If i can do this with a p/p setup I will usually have the upper hand as my unloads can follow in quick succession. You have to watch for when/if he switches to GS.

(I am currently experimenting here with Assassins equilibrium out of stealth wherein my boon duration increased to help prevent that knockback once I am revealed)

I would not use dagger storm until later in the fight. You can generally judge just how skilled the ranger is by then and I like to use DS when I am closer and know that next RF coming. Many rangers will RF anyways.

One would use the same tactics with the S/d set> You have to close that range fast and this is where long reach (1500) invaluable.

Another tactic harder to pull off . Do a withdraw forward as you run towards him>If timed correctly you can evade his PBS or part of that RF with that withdraw as it heals.
Dodge forwards can also work here to help close that initial range. If traited in acrobatics it will also get you swiftness wherein you both evade those initial attacks and are now close enough to use one of your other ports.

Why no one use smoke screen ;-(

Justine.6351:

Why no one use smoke screen ;-(

I find smokescreen ok if you are using ranged but it sort of locks you in place if you use s/d. You want to be closing that range in S/d as fast as possible. If you use Smokescreen to prevent damage from that RF you are not closing range and it now gone for the next 20 some seconds. (cooldown on RF is 1/3 smokescreen)

It ok to use in a P/P set but if you have managed to close that extra range needed to engage given he outranges you < the ranger just needs to fall back slightly leaving you where you started and that utility on cooldown. ( a smart ranger will backpedal and open range if you stand behind that smokescreen)

It’s old hat to most of us but just to be sure you know that you can “pre-cast” C&D before you steal so that you arrive just before the animation ends and to the ranger you only flicker for a second.

Vs a bad ranger you can immediately begin to attack but I would suggest that you wait for a beat or two because the typical reaction is for them to double dodge or pop a cool down. I find it pays to simply wait for stealth to fall and C&D again first before engaging, but that obviously does not apply if they start doing something stupid like rain of arrows.

Having mained a Ranger before I played Thief (I switched when I noticed I played Ranger much like a Thief, using a Siamoth for unreliable Stealth…) I know the sound of Rapid Fire.
Now when I roam around on my THief, I immidiatly hit my #3 skill wether it’s on my S/D or on my Shortbow so that I get in an easy Evade as soon as I hear the Rapid Fire coming. Then when I see I’m being hit, I’ll follow up with anything I can to try and evade for ~2.5 seconds ending with ‘Withdraw’ to heal what Health I lost and as a starting Gap Closer, if possible.

After that, I’ll try find some form of cover asap and see if I can use Infiltrator’s strike from behind there (this will be the point where most ganking Rangers will whip out the Knockback). Depending on the ground that needs to be covered, I’ll go in for a Cloak and Dagger pre-cast and flick on Infiltrator’s Signet to get get on his back and give him a good scare. If they’re far away, I’ll go for the Infiltrator’s Signet -> CnD -> Steal during CND animation chain. Most Rangers who gank will really freak out if you close in on them and they can’t see you (they know you’re there so yeah…) and will indeed start dodging around or start wasting cooldowns for the same effect. Wait out that first few dodges of theirs because you’re just likely to waste initiative if you open on them during that phase. Hold back, but stay close for a new CnD when he’s stopped dodging (because you’re visible again).
While you’re waiting in stealth, cast Basilisk Venom so that he’ll be set up and ready for the next part, where you can go rampage on him.
Now you’ll have about 3 seconds left in which you can open up on him, so hit him with that second CnD when you’re visible again, get in position behind him and then hit him with the Sword Sneak Attack to blind and Daze him, and go in for Sword #3 (optionally twice).
With a bit of luck (you could probably go all hardcore and nextlevel and work it out precisely…) he’ll still be blinded and Dazed when he tries to use Rapid Fire on you again (Sword’s Sneak Attack is underappreciated) so you’ll be safe for the second burst and he’ll be all scared and in panic because he’s got nothing left but resorting to Signet of Stone. If Signet of stone is used, you can still CnD, if you got enough initiative for that, to prevent any attempt he might have left to put up a fight and you’re likely to have him down at this point, or he’ll be rotating through all his bullkitten skills to stay alive and will be nothing but an easy to handle kitten for you to play with.

Well, it doesn’t always pan out like that if the Ranger is good, but I’m yet to find more than 3 Rangers who this doesn’t work on (luckily for me, they’re on my side of WvW)
So for TL:DR…
- S/D is incredibly evasive and mobile, make clever use of it (several Evades through more but dodges, 3 different gap closers for a total of 2400 range, untraited)
- Don’t faceroll, play with a bit of insight (psychology is actually pretty important, but it sounds so heavy)
- Stick close to them, GS hits hard but the animations are big giveaways that will allow you plenty of time to get ready for an evade. Against other weapon sets, clever use of sword #2 is a good way to go.

ehm, I hope this helps!

EDIT: Oh yeah, if you got any blinding utilities, you can time it with when they’re likely to use RF (Even Shortbow can come in handy for this, rarely though)

S/D should have enough evades to avoid rapid fire and all that, the problem against a clever enough ranger is, even if they are just pew pew without their own Sword/Dagger set, they can knock you back and go invulnerable through Signet of Stone – although I think you can interrupt them before they use the Signet.

By that time they should have Rapid fire available from Cooldown, so you need to have those evades available again if you haven’t already bursted them down.

Pretty much just improve situational awareness to not be caught off guard, and evade. S/D 3 can be repeated as long as it doesn’t hit anything.

Not running full berserker gear will also help considerably.

When at all possible fight a Ranger somewhere with cover. When they can spot you out and start firing on you from 1500 range they have a massive advantage that is hard to overcome. Best case scenario is fighting them somewhere near a wall or pillar that you can use to break LOS, and Infiltrator’s Strike to them from there. Failing that, pop your Shadow Refuge and engage off of that.

Your objective is to get near the Ranger and to not let go. You should constantly be trying to get behind your opponent – Longbow is crappy at short range, skills are harder to hit when you’re circling them quickly, and dodge rolling directly through your foe is a great way to break the channel on Rapid Fire.

Hold your Infiltrator’s Signet for the knockback; if it lands, pop your signet and immediately hit 3 to counter the obligatory Rapid Fire. If it is still on cooldown, use your steal to interrupt it. If both are on cooldown, you are probably dead.

They will probably pop their Signet of Stone once their ‘press 2 to win’ fails to kill you instantly; when they do so, either IR away and wait for it to end, or Cloak and Dagger (you can always hit the pet!) to sit in stealth until it wears off. Once the Signet is down they are extremely vulnerable.

If possible, hold Withdraw to counter the immobilize from entangle; alternatively, the water field you get from a successful steal does a good job of ripping off the vines.

Use your steal when they are trying to heal, or to interrupt Rapid Fire – basically, when you get good mileage out of the interrupt and they won’t be evading.

If they are any good they will swap to greatsword after all this, which is a melee duel you should know how to win; their attacks can do a ton of damage, but have really obvious tells that you should be able to evade.

It’s not an easy match-up by any means, but is very winnable. Good luck!

Tips

1. Immediately hit infiltrate signet then steal to stop RF. DPS them afterwards to put them on the defensive. This is how you dictate the fight.

2. CnD off his pet. Turn it against him.

That’s a start

Know where he is before either of you attack.
Use line of sight while he is invulnerable or you had to recover from something.
Dodge the pet’s immobilise, knockdown and fear.
Try and get the engage, and force him to use signet of stone early.
Dodge their melee skills and longbow 4.

Take dagger storm if you can.

Pew pew are such a pest,they can stand up and from nowhere pew-pewing your face.Happens alot when you fight against somone else.When this happens just reset the fight.

The best thing against rangers as a Thief are:

• Dagger Storm > This is absolutely your best trump card, not only because when used at the perfect timed moment will it most likely crush any ranger instantly, but it will cause with bleeds also pressure and cripples them and their pets, so that its harder for them to maybe run away

• When you have not Dagger Storm ready at use, then you will want to be in Melee Combat all the time with the ranger to FORCE THEM to change their Weapon.
  You will want to be very quick, use alot of Stealth and or acrobatic maneuers with dodges, side walks to hit them not frontally (extra damage&crit rate if traited) and avoiding their damage with Deadly Blossoms while causing more pressure frpm bleeds cause alot of rangers run around with an automatic health regen and you will want to negate that together with your Attack Attack Dagger Poison as best as possible.

• Watch out for Rangers, that change to Sword/Warhorn or Sword/Axe, as these kind of Rangers most likely are some strogn condition rangers, that use also alot of Traps.
  Be also careful when they change to Greatswords, because that are the Power Rangers which can dish out some heavy damage with GS doe to alot of Vulnerability in a very short time and ANet buffed LB and GS for rangers significantly (for my taste slightly too good in case of LB)

• Use Steal on Rangers whenever possible, as it will give you a real good Counter Skill that will help you to survive better, as you can use it with Combo Finishers to heal yourself, you will get real long stacked Regenerations from it That together with a hightly regenerative build with Signet of Malice and that trait that heals for used initiative together with that skill, makes you very tanky and you can outheal alot of their attacks quickly, especially when used with attacks that can deal multiple hits, like Deadly Blossom, CLuster Bomb, Unload and its Stealth Version that causes extra bleeds, Vigorating Precision is also helpful for that when you have a high crit build as 15% of cour crits become heals.

• You will want to have always helpful buffs on you, especially in WvW, so use all your ranks in WvW first to get quickly maxed the buffs, that increase Max Health and Power when you kill NPC defenders, use Buff Food and Potions, that increases your Power and Precision.

• D/D and Shortbow are a good combination against rangers to stay in their melee range (if they try to get away from you so that their LB is more powerful, like said, you will want to force them to swap the weapon out, because LB is only very powerful at max distance, so Gap Closers with that you have with D/D and SB enough, SB’s ones even blinds them, while the one of the dagger is deadly, when they have low health)

• Other helpful methods can be also to steal from a nearby Warrrior, to get with the Whirlign Axes another reflection skill, if your DS is currently in CD

• Steal from a nearby Engineer, as their steal skil lis also very helpful as it causes multiple conditions, deals pulsing damage and you can use it for Chaos Armor and Confusion, which are also helpful against fast hitting enemies as that will stop them from attacking too, if they are smart and don’t want to kill themself

• If u ha no reflects, then is Stealth absolutely essential, so that you simply give them as often as possible no target for Rapid Fire

• Train your Reflexes for Dodging after hitting them from Stealth, because alot of Rangers tend to try to counter attack directly with that pushback attack when being hit out of surprise and you dont want to get hit by that, because it will make you eat instantly a follow up rapid fire most likely,while giving them also time to set up some traps into which they want to kite you.

• When they use that Signet, that absorbs all damage, play defensively, use stealth if possible best with CnD from their Pets or the Ranger self.

• Count to 8 after you have seen a Rapid Fire, because thats the time, when you can expect the next one, its the time window that you have for your burst attacks and/or to force them to swap the weapon. When you countdown the cooldown time of Rapid Fire, then it will be lesser of an surprise and makes you more aware of when to dodge best.