Any viable thief PvE condition builds?
Zerk is boring. Better play a condi tank then, oodles of excitement!
I ran venom share style build for dungeons before running p/p with ricochet, problem comes down to condi stacks though. Allot of other classes just straight do it better, and when a single necro or ennui is in the group one of you really isn’t contributing any more cause condi is capoed. Which is probably why you see the build assumed toward pvp/wvw.
However if you wanna do it I’d recommend 10 in power line for vuln trait on crit. If you do pistols you will need at least 20 in trickery for ricochet. And I’d not go full on condi, have it as a main damage but have a decent amount of power to do some physical dmg as well in the case of max stacks. I can’t see your build on my phone and I’m no condi expert with this class but that’s my thoughts on it. When I get home maybe I’ll do a quick build how id do it and share it with you see if a anything tickles your fancy.
no there aren’t
Time to play a different class then. I honestly don’t see how you’ll get more fun for dealing less damage in PvE, lol.
SBI – Thief and the occasional Guardian & Warrior.
Time to play a different class then. I honestly don’t see how you’ll get more fun for dealing less damage in PvE, lol.
It’s not really about exclusively dealing the highest possible damage what I’m looking for – just for something that’s more effective at something else at your regular gameplay – i.e playing as a healer warrior or guardian can be fun and effective even tho your damage is probably the lowest in your group – you still contribute to your group in some way and it still feels satisfying or more thief-wise venomshare builds for example combined with the residual venom + basilisk elite is a really strong combo since you basically provide a stun for everyone in your group that can go through a boss’ defiance stacks.
Dungeon/Fract/Group PvE, there really isn’t any condition builds worth while. They “work”, but so does everything, just not so well (especially compared to zerker).
The few biggest issues that are posed to condition builds are:
- How conditions stack on top of each other, between different players. (You set him on fire, for a few seconds, deal damage, then I set him on fire… now you’re not doing damage… but I am and the duration has been extended too! That’s not just for burning…)
- Maximum condition stacks, this is also shared between players. (+100 players putting conditions on a boss, great! Max 25 stacks of bleed! – effectivness of +100 players is the same as that of a 25 players- this is just a dumb example)
- Defiance/Captains Shield stuff … which pretty much fully negates conditions.
Sorry to say but those things, make it very hard to see when condition in group PvE will be ever comparable to zerker builds. (Unless at one point +100 zerkers have the same effectiveness of 25 condition players (again the dumb example of 1 bleed per player…). But i think the balance scale would be a bit tipped off then and we would have another issue,)
Solo play, anything goes.
(edited by Zero Day.2594)
For open world exploring – Wear whatever you like
For world events bosses – Don’t use conditions
For dungeons – Why bother? Groups don’t want condition dps as it doesn’t stack past 25 if there is another condition user and it fails on items anyway. To deal the condition damage you’re probably using weapon skills that don’t provide the support the group wants (typically blinds). The extra support you can give with a condition spec isn’t valuable.
Grandmaster traits you would need to boost venoms can be better used for other things. You can fit some vitality/toughness into condition builds but why bother? Time the dodges.
Dungeon/Fract/Group PvE, there really isn’t any condition builds worth while. They “work”, but so does everything, just not so well (especially compared to zerker).
The few biggest issues that are posed to condition builds are:
- How conditions stack on top of each other, between different players. (You set him on fire, for a few seconds, deal damage, then I set him on fire… now you’re not doing damage… but I am and the duration has been extended too! That’s not just for burning…)
- Maximum condition stacks, this is also shared between players. (+100 players putting conditions on a boss, great! Max 25 stacks of bleed! – effectivness of +100 players is the same as that of a 25 players- this is just a dumb example)
- Defiance/Captains Shield stuff … which pretty much fully negates conditions.
Sorry to say but those things, make it very hard to see when condition in group PvE will be ever comparable to zerker builds. (Unless at one point +100 zerkers have the same effectiveness of 25 condition players (again the dumb example of 1 bleed per player…). But i think the balance scale would be a bit tipped off then and we would have another issue,)
Solo play, anything goes.
That makes sense I guess – but what bothers me tho is the question why make something that’s so ineffective for PvE compared to raw damage – it should be of some use right? ( keep in mind that I’m talking about PvE here ). Why not make DoT exclusive to PvP/WvW then where it actually works rather than confusing people with an inefficient alternative? I mean for exameple why make both Rampager and Assassin stats available in PvE when clearly Assassin stats are superior? – I mean I love the concept bleeds and poison on a thief but why would you use them if they suck so much? Sure it might be fun but in the end you still are gonna pick what’s more effective.
Dungeon/Fract/Group PvE, there really isn’t any condition builds worth while. They “work”, but so does everything, just not so well (especially compared to zerker).
The few biggest issues that are posed to condition builds are:
- How conditions stack on top of each other, between different players. (You set him on fire, for a few seconds, deal damage, then I set him on fire… now you’re not doing damage… but I am and the duration has been extended too! That’s not just for burning…)
- Maximum condition stacks, this is also shared between players. (+100 players putting conditions on a boss, great! Max 25 stacks of bleed! – effectivness of +100 players is the same as that of a 25 players- this is just a dumb example)
- Defiance/Captains Shield stuff … which pretty much fully negates conditions.
Sorry to say but those things, make it very hard to see when condition in group PvE will be ever comparable to zerker builds. (Unless at one point +100 zerkers have the same effectiveness of 25 condition players (again the dumb example of 1 bleed per player…). But i think the balance scale would be a bit tipped off then and we would have another issue,)
Solo play, anything goes.
That makes sense I guess – but what bothers me tho is the question why make something that’s so ineffective for PvE compared to raw damage – it should be of some use right? ( keep in mind that I’m talking about PvE here ). Why not make DoT exclusive to PvP/WvW then where it actually works rather than confusing people with an inefficient alternative? I mean for exameple why make both Rampager and Assassin stats available in PvE when clearly Assassin stats are superior? – I mean I love the concept bleeds and poison on a thief but why would you use them if they suck so much? Sure it might be fun but in the end you still are gonna pick what’s more effective.
Flawed design, not forseeing things (zerg infestations). Possibly to create an illusion of build variety. Honestly, giving the benefit of the doubt, I think they just didnt forsee things playing out like so.
Maybe they thought Champ events where going to be done by happy groups of players that knew each other and are in the same guild/on friend list, as opposed to mindless effecient zerglings, something like that.
PvP, conditions are viable/effective. WvW it’s the same against players, but against AI (like the tower’s Lord) conditions face the same problem as in PvE. Like I said, solo pve, conditions are viable, can be used… the problem comes when it becomes group PvE.
:P I do have to agree, it does seem kind of a waste of _ (space, builds, data, code) since conditions builds are rejected without a second thought. O well, nothing I can really do.
BTW, this isn’t just a problem for thieves, it’s a “global” problem… They’re idea of a fix is 10% nerf on crit damage…. lol.
Other’s are also mentioning team-play related stuff, that might also be the case… I think it’s primarily those three things though, for zerging/champs/what not.
(edited by Zero Day.2594)
Max dps groups are usually taking the advantage of teamplay.
Stability, Aegis, blind, cc etc etc all have to be used at the right moment.
U can´t find a more “teamplay based” party then a nice maxdps party.
We´re missing Power/con/prec and Con/power/prec gear Yes. But it is still the same.
For team PvE, no. We are simply inferior to almost every class at condition stacking. However, for solo, our single target bleed sustain is AWESOME! We have easy acess to a gap creater that adds torment, and much more. Use a standard dire build with p/d and a 0/0/30/20/20 setup for maximum effectiveness. Use this SOLO ONLY!!! Not for AoE. For champion solos only pretty much. That’s really all it’s viable for.