Guild Wars 2

This is not a rage thread, if anything I’m laughing. I’ve been doing WvW avidly recently, and about 90% of the thieves I come across seem to start off the fight by going stealth, opening with backstab then proceeding to HS spam.

Really?..

Normally I don’t mind, but I’m trying to play my Power/Condi Necro and continually eating 7k HS spam is tiring. Are there any of you going to be decent enough to admit HS needs to require more initiative or have a small CD on it?

Sure your class is squishy and you deserve to have good DPS. But when I’m playing a class that has little cleave and you’re able to dodge through my Marks, then you can easily avoid a huge portion of my damage with your somewhat endless stealth. Alongside that, being able to spam an ability that crits upwards of 5k…

I don’t expect much, but surely there’s at least one of you able to admit that HS spam needs some sort of fix. I don’t care if the damage gets an increase but unable to be spammed. Besides it being able to be spammed, why on earth would anyone be boring enough to play a build that requires you to mash 1 button and the occasional stealth?

Anyways, I know I’ll probably get lectured on how superior my class is, how bad your class is, and how bad I am, though I’m just curious if there’s at least one of you to admit HS needs a fix.

Oh, and I can only expect someone to bring up “Necro conditions are op”, then yes.. yes they pretty much are.

my2c

you are playing against pve Players ^^
you would see a much different gameplaystyle when fighting against experienced Players …. but theres no real effort to Play wvwvw
I heared some tpvp Player playing spvp to get relaxed break from tournaments

Are there any non-qq threads from non-thieves here?

If you’re fighting against thieves who “spam HS,” you’re not even fighting good thieves.

Yes. I only HS as a gap closer and when you’re under 25%.

frans.8092:

Are there any non-qq threads from non-thieves here?

I think I found an HS-spammer.

Now onto the OP. Yeah. I hear you. My main’s a thief, and HS-spam has… never been fun, and overly ridiculous and completely laughable.

But here’s the thing with Heart-Seeker. It is really the only skill in the D/D line that does a decent amount of damage. Death Blossom’s damage comes from its bleeds, Dancing Dagger was already nerfed into the ground, and CnD’s benefit is more the vulnerability and stealth than the damage. And it’s kind of laughable to assume that you just auto-attack to win.

So. Does HS need a nerf? No. No, it really doesn’t. Because HS-spammers are usually the thieves that can’t dodge for kitten. They’re a one-trick wonder and if you throw off their game and root them to the spot (immobilize will be your best friend, promise), or even slow them down and stay out of their reach, they can’t do a thing to you.

And to end this: Obligatory “Necro condispam OP, nerf nao.”

they’re probably laughing at you too

the vicious cycle continues

Anaeli.8053:

frans.8092:

Are there any non-qq threads from non-thieves here?

I think I found an HS-spammer.

Oh my, we have a real Sherlock here, they have opinion Y, so they must be X.

But here’s the thing with Heart-Seeker. It is really the only skill in the D/D line that does a decent amount of damage.

By the time HS does decent damage there’s no reason to spam it. As a Sherlock you should have known that. Oh, wait …

The OP’s just asking for a nerf, not for advice on how to improve their skill.

Op why are you letting un-skilled hs spamming thiefs get the better of you. Most thief that hs spam are noobs but its worse if players are letting thiefs that do that be successful.

Actually, I’ve never seen a thief spamming HS like you just described

And 7k per HS? I know it deals more damage the closer to death is the enemy, but if a HS can deal that damage, they should try CnD+Backstab for instakill against you (don’t forget to come back here and cry)

Um… If you’re dying to HS spam, you’re doing something wrong.

Also, it’s pretty much impossible to get hit by 7k per HS unless you’re running very squishy or inferior gear.

is a thief hits my necro for 7k I know he is pretty much glass, I just load him up with some bleeds and fear him....downed thief.

Heal early vs thief, you are dead if they get you under half.

But really, auto attack is better DPS, and heartseeker isn’t even an evade. Just chill/fear/laugh at them.

Also WvW isn’t balanced at all so you are gonna run into superglassLOL4signets builds that can kill you quick if you do nothing for a couple seconds.

The funiest thing here is that you’re a necro lol.

HS doesn’t need a fix. Interrupting and dodging will make HS burn his initiative up. Afterwards, you can start melting him.

Zach.3264:

This is not a rage thread, if anything I’m laughing. I’ve been doing WvW avidly recently, and about 90% of the thieves I come across seem to start off the fight by going stealth, opening with backstab then proceeding to HS spam.

Really?..

Normally I don’t mind, but I’m trying to play my Power/Condi Necro and continually eating 7k HS spam is tiring. Are there any of you going to be decent enough to admit HS needs to require more initiative or have a small CD on it?

Sure your class is squishy and you deserve to have good DPS. But when I’m playing a class that has little cleave and you’re able to dodge through my Marks, then you can easily avoid a huge portion of my damage with your somewhat endless stealth. Alongside that, being able to spam an ability that crits upwards of 5k…

I don’t expect much, but surely there’s at least one of you able to admit that HS spam needs some sort of fix. I don’t care if the damage gets an increase but unable to be spammed. Besides it being able to be spammed, why on earth would anyone be boring enough to play a build that requires you to mash 1 button and the occasional stealth?

Anyways, I know I’ll probably get lectured on how superior my class is, how bad your class is, and how bad I am, though I’m just curious if there’s at least one of you to admit HS needs a fix.

Oh, and I can only expect someone to bring up “Necro conditions are op”, then yes.. yes they pretty much are.

my2c

Ok, since you skipped elementary school i’ll help you count d/p thief’s damaging abilities:
1. autoattack/backstab
2. heart seeker
3. shadow shot
That’s all. No damage on utilities, no damage on 4-5. You should figure out the rest by yourself.

Why do fellow thieves even bother with these posts? They are so emotionally biased it’s funny. If you’re getting killed by these “inexperienced” thieves then it really is a problem on your end. You said you’re power/condi. Well then build for more toughness.

I assumed the OP was writing us from last year. Heartseeker was ludicrously overpowered for the first few months of the game.

It’s quite possible he’s been without access to the game, or perhaps even the outside world, locked in solitary confinement, rage slowly building about that time he got killed in a video game back in twenty-aught-twelve.

Well, let me see how to address this.

1.) Heartseeker spam, as mentioned by most of the other posters, is terrible dps and is effectively a death sentence against a competent player.
2.) Necros have a decently large advantage against thieves especially if the thief is specced for burst. Condition necros especially should do well against a thief even more so they’re heartseeker spamming.
3.) If you are going down quickly against a thief as a necro and you are just assuming its heartseeker, I’d check my combat log again. I have had players whisper me telling me to stop HS spamming and usually its just cause that was the animation they noticed before they died.

Above 25% health it’s only a multiplier of 1.5 and 1.0 above 50% health.

For reference a necro’s DS life blast 600 and under has a multiplier of 1.4 and necrotic bite a multiplier of 1.2(same as hitting with backstab from the front).

Do what you will with this information

Yeah a power necro using life blast can hit a little less than heart seeker regardless of the opponent’s health. Life blast is slower? Yes, but heart seeker is single target melee range, while life blast is 1.2k range and can be traited to pierce and effortlessly stack might. Necro also has over 40% greater base health.

The class’ mechanic allows for spamming the same skill. If it’s going to get a kill, then it can’t be called bad practice. If they just do it mindlessly (e.g. those thieves that keep spamming even when they have a blind field or are already downed) then you can let them empty their initiative, kill them, and hope they learn to improve. Nerfing it to prevent spammers out of frustration will hurt the rest of us. I’ve used it multiple times in a row when trying to finish off an opponent who is spamming dodge/evade while trying to put distance between us. They of course then insult me for having used it three or four times before finally landing it, despite having just spammed the hell out of their evades (another example of it being bad for a thief to do something but ok for every other class). People spam if it’s an effective option. If it’s not effective and they spam, just facepalm and move on.

Halve the damage and make it ground targeted 500 range leap <3

this make me lol, just today this thief spammed 3 heartseekrs, i saw it coming a mile away so i just stand thier and say 2 2 2 go go go, ofc i took some decent dmg but not enough to kill me i usually rock about 2.9k armor. I know this duudes outta init, so hes gonna go run away once i CnD. Because all noob thiefs think all thiefs run a back-stab thief. GG

Ive been saying this all night l2p, plox.

About HS spam. It’s almost never proffitable, even when target have <= 25% hp. Because some defensive abilities are getting blown, target survives and you’re out of initiative.

But there is a spam thing in guild wars that sometimes makes me mad. It’s abilities queueing, don’t really know how it’s called. When you’re using an ability – HS in our case, and accidently pressing the button once, or even twice more, while your rogue already is in a HS leap – BAM, you will HS one or two more times. That’s probably not a bad thing on a high latency cases, but in all other scenarios it’s godkitten annoying.

Edit: much love to forum auto_kitten_corrector

so much hate to theif and anet seems in the same team

The thing i dislike about HS is the chaining. If there is any lag I’ll end up with 2 or even 3 HS in a row. It is way to easy to start another HS before the animation is even close to complete. IMO That is what needs to change, the skill activation.

yep, heartseeker is broken as hell. It’s a skill people can spam and still get away with it because you’re jumping on the opponents face and it’s disorienting aswell as panicking when you’re taking 2k,2k,5k,5k and up to 8k every time after that. But Anet doesn’t care about these things, they like seeing scrubs spam 2 and kill decent players.

— posted by a top 100 ranked leaderboard thief (because leaderboards mean i’m not complete trash

All classes have their annoying kitten that may become a huge problem if they are glassy and there at the right time.

Necromancers can for instance pop Lich Form and spam 5k auto attack and hit 9k or something with the #5 skill, from range

Freaking necro.. Can you stop running so we can juz auto attack you without has to Heartseeker just for hitting ? nerf necro walking speed plox!

Zach.3264:

I don’t expect much, but surely there’s at least one of you able to admit that HS spam needs some sort of fix. I don’t care if the damage gets an increase but unable to be spammed. Besides it being able to be spammed, why on earth would anyone be boring enough to play a build that requires you to mash 1 button and the occasional stealth?
my2c

The only way to make HS un-spammable is to increase the amount of initiative that it costs. Then there is the issue of d/p thieves who get their stealth from HS+Black powder. So when trying to balance/nerf one thing you inadvertently nerf another thus making certain weapon sets unusable.

Almost every thief build is built around 1-2 abilities, that’s just the way this game works with so few abilities / utilities to use. Some examples include; P/P is built around unload, S/D flanking strike, S/P pistol whip, D/D Heartseeker and Backstab, D/P Heartseeker Backstab, P/D Vital Shot and Shadow Strike.

I run D/P the reason is mostly due to Shadow Shot because I love the mobility/blind. D/P has virtually no wasted abilities and if built around backstab/heartseeker can do some really nice damage while keeping survivability. Then taking Furious Retaliation (gain Fury when target is at 50% hp) and Executioner(deal 20% more damage when target is below 50%) Thrill of the Crime(Fury, Might, Swiftness) and Assassin’s Signet to buff HS the fight is easily finished once your enemy is below 50% hp.

So I usually do kill someone with 1-2 heartseekers once they are below the hp threshold, and this leads people to call me a HS spammer. Even though I still use all my weapon abilities and finish with HS… it doesn’t matter what the enemy thinks because in the end I’m the one still standing. (Just gotta be careful around that horrid condi!)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlYmiO3ey4E/5Ey2jeqC5J/DklODaqlA-T0Ag0CnICTxljLDXSuscNgYBxBiJBPIA

HS will never hit for 7k,not even if you have 0 armor and are below the 30% hp treshold, I smell BS in your post.

If it would you`d be dead after 3 hits (plus the auto attacks) that could hardly be called “spam”, I smell more BS.

On a side note: I have been called HS spammer while useing a short bow. Usually people do not even have a clue what kills them.

I sometimes get on thief and just 2222222222222222222 in pvp and see how many people die. Then I laugh at them because of how bad they have to be to lose to something like that.

This is pretty hilarious. My base lifeblast on my power necro hits harder than HS even when the enemy is under 25%. And, it stacks vulnerabilty, so each one progressively hits harder and harder.

Bazzoong.7145:

HS will never hit for 7k,not even if you have 0 armor and are below the 30% hp treshold, I smell BS in your post.

If it would you`d be dead after 3 hits (plus the auto attacks) that could hardly be called “spam”, I smell more BS.

On a side note: I have been called HS spammer while useing a short bow. Usually people do not even have a clue what kills them.

Burnfall.9573:

Bazzoong.7145:

HS will never hit for 7k,not even if you have 0 armor and are below the 30% hp treshold, I smell BS in your post.

If it would you`d be dead after 3 hits (plus the auto attacks) that could hardly be called “spam”, I smell more BS.

On a side note: I have been called HS spammer while useing a short bow. Usually people do not even have a clue what kills them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTSlULPN768

That video is from September, 2012. HS was pretty ludicrous at launch, being the one-button-kill-everything skill that vid depicts.

It was severely nerfed. It’s still a good gap close (or opener, if you are trying to flee), but it’s only big damage if the opponent is <25% health.

There’s one Heartseeker in that video. This is a thread about Heartseeker spam.

Also, 1-2-3? I count (traited) Steal, Cloak and Dagger, Backstab, Auto-attack, Auto-attack, Heartseeker… downed. So that’s six actions, during which time the ranger (is that you? ) took four actions:

- He told the pet to attack (melee pets are weak in WvW), which resulted in zero damage

- He tried to fire a ground-targetted AoE. This was countered by the thief’s elite, Basilisk Venom

- He evaded. At this point, he’s already eaten a traited steal, a CND, a backstab and some autoattacks. Against a thief, evade is not the right answer here

- He attacked with what looks like a Swoop. This mistake ends the fight

Against most thieves, you need to have your heal ready and fire it off early. A lot of things happen in many thief specs when the target hits 50% health (the thief probably gains Fury, and he may gain +20% damage, depending on spec). And at 25% health, you’re in deep trouble. You either heal above 25% immediately, or you need to toss up a blind, block or something to prevent the Heartseeker from hitting. You don’t have long to do either.

As I look at that fight, the thief took 50% more actions than the ranger. And everything the ranger did was either useless (melee pet in WvW) or simply incorrect given his situation. So, if the thief pushes more buttons, and the ones you push are the wrong ones, the thief is going to win.

Rangers are also tied with staff elementalists for worst 1v1 class in WvW. Thieves are not the best at it, but they’re top-tier. Moreover, this is a thief built specifically for 1v1 (traited Mug, Basi Venom). That was a mismatch from the start.

Of course, as you look at the fight, the poor ranger did everything right, yet was beaten by an omnipotent, invisible assassin of justice, or whatever.

1v1’s against competent players are hard. Learn, and you get better. Whine, and you won’t. Also… try not playing a ranger, especially not a solo roamer with a melee pet. That’s a recipe for losing most encounters.

Oghier.7419:

Of course, as you look at the fight, the poor ranger did everything right, yet was beaten by an omnipotent, invisible assassin of justice, or whatever.

Lol. This needs to be one of you theif main guys’ signatures.

I play thief, and I have been HS spammed by thieves before, and seen many attempt to HS spam my guildies.. it makes me ‘lol’. It’s only effective if the target literally lets it happen.

I disagree however that HS needs any sort of “fix” whatsoever. Especially since necro has fear/chill/marks and also dodge’s. Chill makes HS absolutely useless. Slows the skill and cuts the range in half. If I’m chilled in any sort of AOE I can’t even HS out of it most times because I don’t leap far enough.

If you die from HS spam, it’s just bad reaction/you weren’t paying attention/caught by surprise/you already blew all your cooldowns/etc. Can’t do much about it.

I don’t HS spam.. not because it’s OP/‘broken’ etc. I just think it is more ineffective than most people think. I don’t like the feel of blowing initiative on a well telegraphed move that is actually pretty easy to counter.

HS is also glitchy for me and doesn’t always even work/go the full distance, and I’ve even had HS make me go completely backwards lol (granted, with nothing targeted). I might chain HS 2x at most but mainly its because I have a guy low who is running and my 1st HS was JUST out of range to get him.

HS spamming is effective, as long as it is not countered, but I RARELY see someone that doesn’t counter it. I have been taken down by HS spam a minimal amount of times, and my guildies the same. I have a necro guildy and I have never seen him get downed by a HS spam (and I’ve seen it happen to him a few times lol).

I think power necros are OP.. and I’ve raged about them before, as well as mes and engi, but you just got to try and find ways around their “abilities” though I do feel HS is far easier to counter than necro spam lol (but our opinions are all relative to the classes we play so).

So yes, I am a thief, I do not HS spam, but to answer your main point, this is NOT because I feel HS needs to be changed in any way.

Yeah, because the thief needs more nerfs.

^That warrior vid, made me laugh out loud

That warrior vid is hilarious. Does this guy have a whole series of “I stand there and let thieves kill me” lessons?

Does he realize that to win PvP you have to… do stuff?

LOL @ the warrior video.

no good player spams HS. It is just not effective against anything but the worst players… either in terms of skill or armor choices.

How is 2012 op?

Either you dominate bad HS thieves and are asking for a nerf just to start a flame war, or you are actually a terrible player yourself and get beat by an inefficient playstyle.

my2c

lol what
when I play PvP—hotjoin, even!—it’s extremely rare that I find a thief that spams heartseeker

Dealing with noobseeker spam berserker thieves is easy. The problem is with perma stealth trolls

Oghier.7419:

There’s one Heartseeker in that video. This is a thread about Heartseeker spam.

Also, 1-2-3? I count (traited) Steal, Cloak and Dagger, Backstab, Auto-attack, Auto-attack, Heartseeker… downed. So that’s six actions, during which time the ranger (is that you? ) took four actions:

- He told the pet to attack (melee pets are weak in WvW), which resulted in zero damage

- He tried to fire a ground-targetted AoE. This was countered by the thief’s elite, Basilisk Venom

- He evaded. At this point, he’s already eaten a traited steal, a CND, a backstab and some autoattacks. Against a thief, evade is not the right answer here

- He attacked with what looks like a Swoop. This mistake ends the fight

Against most thieves, you need to have your heal ready and fire it off early. A lot of things happen in many thief specs when the target hits 50% health (the thief probably gains Fury, and he may gain +20% damage, depending on spec). And at 25% health, you’re in deep trouble. You either heal above 25% immediately, or you need to toss up a blind, block or something to prevent the Heartseeker from hitting. You don’t have long to do either.

As I look at that fight, the thief took 50% more actions than the ranger. And everything the ranger did was either useless (melee pet in WvW) or simply incorrect given his situation. So, if the thief pushes more buttons, and the ones you push are the wrong ones, the thief is going to win.

Rangers are also tied with staff elementalists for worst 1v1 class in WvW. Thieves are not the best at it, but they’re top-tier. Moreover, this is a thief built specifically for 1v1 (traited Mug, Basi Venom). That was a mismatch from the start.

Of course, as you look at the fight, the poor ranger did everything right, yet was beaten by an omnipotent, invisible assassin of justice, or whatever.

1v1’s against competent players are hard. Learn, and you get better. Whine, and you won’t. Also… try not playing a ranger, especially not a solo roamer with a melee pet. That’s a recipe for losing most encounters.

This is what saddens me Oghier, before Arena.net unjust onslaught against the ranger class, our pets were doing 2k-8k damage. So than, were the good times to melee with pets.

Now, we rangers are left with no other choice but to melee;. Our axe damage is pathetic, our sword could be better, greatword seem to work when it wants to; that’s pretty much it.

Everyone seem to think rangers are viable with melee, in fact it is not true at all.

This is our purpose to thief class..

to be freely killed by them

“if you give a lion meat to eat, wouldn’t the lion eat it?”

this is why i do not blame thieves or fault them for instantly killing us within seconds.

Look here…

why do every thieves see us as a free meal?

because we are.

I’ve actually not seen a HS spam Thief in like half a year or more. Not sure how you’re finding so many. The recent sword nerfs might revive some of them since we have like.. no builds left for Spvp beyond D/D full zerker. You’re not supposed to spam HS though, only newbies doing kinky experiments do that.

I switched back to that after nerfs just to troll but eventually just stuck with doing spvp with my Warrior, since I can do my entire pvp daily without dying, regardless of who I’m facing. He has 0 weaknesses and I find it hilarious the patch didn’t touch my build.

Are you sure he is spamming HS? Are you sure it wasn’t fighting you and taking you down to letss say 25% ish and you started to run so he hit HS and killed you with it? Cause I know plenty of people in SPvP will call me a HS spamming noob if I killed them with a HS, and it wouldn’t even mattered if the rest of the fight was just me autoattacking them with a SB.