Guild Wars 2

Well, now that we finally have the stats for the new Ascended Armor, its time to do some math! This thread is not for the discussion of trait setups or builds btw. This thread is only for discussion about the math behind gear sets, food, sigils and runes.

Part One
Best Possible Physical Damage.

To find the best setup for the best possible damage gear set, we only have 2 options to look at. Berserkers and Assassins. Every other piece of gear has defensive stats on it, and we do not want any of those! This is going to assume youre one of those people running 30 Deadly Arts and 30 Critical Strikes.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAoYVlUmKO3eS5E/JA-jQxAYfBRCCQxtIas6aMlLRUNA-e

We’ll Start with this, since it gives us all the numbers we need other than Armor stats, since theyre new we’ll have to manually count those. Also since Scholar runes have been proven to be the best runes for increasing damage, we’re simply going to use them. If anyone would like to question this decision, please feel free to do so, and we can compare math between them and… whatever you want later in the thread.

For slot skills, Assassin’s Signet is a pretty common use slot skill, so we will be adding it, and comparing damage when the power is active, and when it is not.

2019 Power (1839 w/o Power Signet)
1426 Precision
62% Critical hit damage

Ascended Body: 106 main 76 sub 5% CD
Ascended Pants: 71 main 50 sub 4% CD
Ascended Hat: 47 main 34 sub 2 CD
Ascended Gloves/Shoes/Shoulders: 35 main 25 sub 2% CD

106 + 71 + 47 + (35 * 3) = 329 Main
76 + 50 + 34 + (25 * 3) = 235 Sub
5 + 4 + (2 * 4) = 17 CD

We’ll also add full bloodlust stacks to both sets for every calculation, and for the first calculation, we’re going to skew everything as far into working out for the Assassins set as possible by stacking as much power as we possibly can, to see if it ever has a hope of winning, because I do not believe it does.

Oils/Stones:
916 Toughness
916 Vitality
916 * (61/1024) = 54.56640625
916 * (40/1024) = 35.78125
55 + 35 = 90, this is less than Toxic Oil adds, so we will be using those for +100.

Berserkers
1426 Precision + 300 Precision + 235 Armor sub stats + 100 Oil stats brings us to
1426 + 300 + 235 +100 = 2061 Precision Total.

2051 Precision is 59% Crit Chance, 2072 Precision is 60 Crit Chance. Adding 3 precision infusions should be better than adding none, but we’ll have to check and make sure.

Critical Hit Damage: 62 + 30 traits + 17 armor + 10 food = 119%

Berserkers – Main Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 Might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Sweet & Spicy Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 3 Power/3 Precision Infusions
(2019 + 329 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + 100 + (5 * 3)) * ((1 * .4) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .6)) =
7830.432 Damage

Assassins
1426 Precision + 300 Precision + 329 Armor main stats +100 Toxic Oil
1426 + 300 + 329 +100 = 2155 Precision Total.
2156 is 64% Critical Hit Chance, so 1 Precision Infusion, 5 Powers.

Assassins – Sub Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Sweet & Spicy Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 5 Power/1 Precision Infusion
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + 100 + (5 * 5)) * ((1 * .36) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .64)) =
7918.4064 Damage

7918.4064/7830.432 = 1.0112349357

In this example Assassins managed to win by 1%, but we should be able to fix a simple mistake in the Berserkers set to have it win. We’re stacking way to much power, if we just changed our food to Curry Butternut Squash and traded 100 Power for 100 Precision Berserkers will win.

1426 + 300 + 235 +100 +100 = 2161 Precision Total.
2156 is 64% critical hit chance, 2177 is 65%. Lets check 4 precision and 0 precision infusions, 4 should win.

Berserkers – Main Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 Might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Curry Butternut Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 2 Power/4 Precision Infusions
(2019 + 329 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 2)) * ((1 * .35) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .65)) =
7938.6255 Damage

Berserkers – Main Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 Might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Curry Butternut Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 6 Power/0 Precision Infusions
(2019 + 329 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 6)) * ((1 * .36) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .64)) =
7916.3248 Damage

So there we go, we managed to use correct food and Berserkers wins. And it goes without saying, if you remove any of the Power buffs, Berserkers just pulls further and further ahead. And, if you have 25 stacks of might, youre probably in a coordinated group and also getting fury, so lets look at that too.

Berserkers – Main Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 Might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Curry Butternut Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 2 Power/4 Precision Infusions + Fury
(2019 + 329 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 2)) * ((1 * .15) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .85)) =
9217.2795 Damage

Berserkers – Main Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 Might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Curry Butternut Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 6 Power/0 Precision Infusions + Fury
(2019 + 329 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 6)) * ((1 * .16) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .84)) =
9201.7388 Damage

Assassins w/ Fury
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + 100 + (5 * 5)) * ((1 * .16) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .84)) =
9204.1584 Damage

Assassins w/ Curry instead of Squash, 6 Precision infusions:
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 0)) * ((1 * .3) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .7)) =
8031.257 Damage

Assassins w/ Curry instead of Squash, 6 Precision infusions + Fury:
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 0)) * ((1 * .1) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .9)) =
9274.759 Damage

And Assassins is winning again, lulz.

Standing next to a banner of discipline w/ fury
Assassins w/ Curry instead of Squash, 6 Precision infusions
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 0)) * ((1 * .02) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .98)) =
9772.1598 Damage
Berserkers – Main Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 Might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Curry Butternut Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 2 Power/4 Precision Infusions
(2019 + 329 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 2)) * ((1 * .07) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .93)) =
9728.7411 Damage

Lulz, go buy your Assassins gear for when you have even close to max buffs, because that isht is winning.

Outside of having max buffs, stick to Berserkers.

Removing Might Stacks:
Assassins – Sub Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – Assassins Signet – Sweet & Spicy Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 5 Power/1 Precision Infusion
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (5 * 5)) * ((1 * .36) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .64)) =
5888.8464 Damage

Berserkers – Main Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – Assassins Signet – Curry Butternut Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 2 Power/4 Precision Infusions
(2019 + 329 + 300 + 250 + (5 * 2)) * ((1 * .35) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .65)) =
6102.438 Damage

Removing Assassins Signet:
Assassins – Sub Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – Assassins Signet – Sweet & Spicy Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 5 Power/1 Precision Infusion
(1839 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (5 * 5)) * ((1 * .36) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .64)) =
5514.1584 Damage

Berserkers – Main Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – Assassins Signet – Curry Butternut Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 2 Power/4 Precision Infusions
(1839 + 329 + 300 + 250 + (5 * 2)) * ((1 * .35) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .65)) =
5724.708 Damage

Ok at some point I think I did something completely wrong, cause wtf, why is assassins winning now? lulz. Just get Berserkers weapons and Trinkets and Assassins Armor I guess, w/ Scholar runes, Butternut Curry Squash Soup, 5 Power/1 Precision infusions, and Toxic Maintenance Oil for when you have max buffs, All Berserkers when you don’t have them =3
Unless someone can prove this wrong? Good Luck with that!

Part Two
Correctly Adding Defense to your Gear

Coming Soon~

Part Three
Condition Damage

Coming Soon~

This space reserved because I will probably need it.

This one too, just for good measure.

Hijacking this next spot because I am a jerk.

I’m actually really surprised by those results, even though I suck terribly at math, I enjoy reading these threads. Keep it up man. (Y)

Oh god so much math. You need like “conclusions: wear THIS”.

Tremain.4623:

Oh god so much math. You need like “conclusions: wear THIS”.

I second this notion! I appreciate your dedication and effort for finding out these values, but Im lazy and reading numbers sucks. Could you please have a summary section that describes/explains your findings in language only? Thank you.

roughryder.6071:

Tremain.4623:

Oh god so much math. You need like “conclusions: wear THIS”.

I second this notion! I appreciate your dedication and effort for finding out these values, but Im lazy and reading numbers sucks. Could you please have a summary section that describes/explains your findings in language only? Thank you.

You guys need to read it at least because even if you skip the math you’d find this;

wish.1027:

Just get Berserkers weapons and Trinkets and Assassins Armor I guess, w/ Scholar runes, Butternut Curry Squash Soup, 5 Power/1 Precision infusions, and Toxic Maintenance Oil for when you have max buffs, All Berserkers when you don’t have them

Sir Vincent III.1286:

roughryder.6071:

Tremain.4623:

Oh god so much math. You need like “conclusions: wear THIS”.

I second this notion! I appreciate your dedication and effort for finding out these values, but Im lazy and reading numbers sucks. Could you please have a summary section that describes/explains your findings in language only? Thank you.

You guys need to read it at least because even if you skip the math you’d find this;

wish.1027:

Just get Berserkers weapons and Trinkets and Assassins Armor I guess, w/ Scholar runes, Butternut Curry Squash Soup, 5 Power/1 Precision infusions, and Toxic Maintenance Oil for when you have max buffs, All Berserkers when you don’t have them

Thank you, he blinded me with science so i completely missed it.

Just going to go ahead and mention that since you don’t take Signet of Agility or Side Strikes into your calculations, all that work which looked laborious, was completely wasted. Flawed premise = flawed conclusions, unfortunately.

If you want to learn about Thief dps builds, watch my livestream tonight at 6pm EST where I’ll be discussing Thief and every other profession post patch.

www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

See you then.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Just going to go ahead and mention that since you don’t take Signet of Agility or Side Strikes into your calculations, all that work which looked laborious, was completely wasted. Flawed premise = flawed conclusions, unfortunately.

The thread is about maximizing passive stats so traits like Side Strike are not part of his calculations — which that OP had stated at the beginning of the thread.

wish.1027:

This thread is not for the discussion of trait setups or builds btw. This thread is only for discussion about the math behind gear sets, food, sigils and runes.

======

If you want to learn about Thief dps builds, watch my livestream tonight at 6pm EST where I’ll be discussing Thief and every other profession post patch.

www.twitch.tv/nike_dnt

I find it pathetic to try to discredit someone’s thread to advertise your twitch. :/

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The thread is about maximizing passive stats so traits like Side Strike are not part of his calculations — which that OP had stated at the beginning of the thread.

wish.1027:

This thread is not for the discussion of trait setups or builds btw. This thread is only for discussion about the math behind gear sets, food, sigils and runes.

If you aren’t accounting for traits and utility skills you’re just wasting your time, which is my point. This is a wheel spinning exercise. It reaches useless conclusions using kooky premises.

I find it pathetic to try to discredit someone’s thread to advertise your twitch. :/

I find your value judgement about my twitch pathetic.

Yet the very next line offers traits which imply it is about overall builds. Ignoring existing variables doesn’t help much either.

It is also entirely possible I’m just too casual in the ways of math and how crit chance works in game, but having over 100% with berserker means that losing power for more crit chance is worthless.

Tremain.4623:

Thank you, he blinded me with science so i completely missed it.

You need to count yer shinies, ye know, he thief, you blinded …

Source on ascended gear stats? Anyone?

Thanks for the numbers Wish! I look forward to improving my builds with these and perhaps with the added stats I might be able to allocate more into survivability or damage, depending on your results. Thanks as always!

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

If you want to learn about Thief dps builds, watch my livestream tonight at 6pm EST where I’ll be discussing Thief and every other profession post patch.

I went into your live stream, and then you banned me for proving you wrong repeatedly.

I think the most hilarious thing you said during the 5 minutes I was watching is how you get 20% damage below 50% mob HP with executioner, and how exposed weakness gives you a 10% damage increase, and how First strikes gives you a 10% damage increase. And all this, while already having Scholar Runes. I also like how you advocate running 107% critical hit chance from the side or behind with flanking strike on, because you know, critical hit chance can exceed 100%!

All my math proved is that with as many power buffs as are available in this game, if youre using half of them, reaching 100% critical hit chance while fully buffed provides a better damage increase than stacking more power. I would of eventually gotten around to posting that bit, after I did a bit more math, which Ive been doing today since I got home from work, but wont be done with today saddly. But you wanted to try to call me out. So how about you go ahead and prove with math those 2 things you specifically said are true. I’ll wait.

Kadin.2356:

Source on ascended gear stats? Anyone?

I have SS’s from in-game with the stats listed, I posted all the stats on the armor in my first post.

roughryder.6071:

Tremain.4623:

Oh god so much math. You need like “conclusions: wear THIS”.

I second this notion! I appreciate your dedication and effort for finding out these values, but Im lazy and reading numbers sucks. Could you please have a summary section that describes/explains your findings in language only? Thank you.

When Im done with each individual section it will be there!

Erebus.9276:

having over 100% with berserker means that losing power for more crit chance is worthless.

Yes, losing power for precision when over 100% critical hit chance is a bad idea, and is a worthless thing to do.

However, showing that reaching 100% critical hit chance is better DPS when buffed than wearing Berserkers is not.

wish.1027:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

If you want to learn about Thief dps builds, watch my livestream tonight at 6pm EST where I’ll be discussing Thief and every other profession post patch.

I went into your live stream, and then you banned me for proving you wrong repeatedly.

I think the most hilarious thing you said during the 5 minutes I was watching is how you get 20% damage below 50% mob HP with executioner, and how exposed weakness gives you a 10% damage increase, and how First strikes gives you a 10% damage increase. And all this, while already having Scholar Runes. I also like how you advocate running 107% critical hit chance from the side or behind with flanking strike on, because you know, critical hit chance can exceed 100%!

All my math proved is that with as many power buffs as are available in this game, if youre using half of them, reaching 100% critical hit chance while fully buffed provides a better damage increase than stacking more power. I would of eventually gotten around to posting that bit, after I did a bit more math, which Ive been doing today since I got home from work, but wont be done with today saddly. But you wanted to try to call me out. So how about you go ahead and prove with math those 2 things you specifically said are true. I’ll wait.

Kadin.2356:

Source on ascended gear stats? Anyone?

I have SS’s from in-game with the stats listed, I posted all the stats on the armor in my first post.

roughryder.6071:

Tremain.4623:

Oh god so much math. You need like “conclusions: wear THIS”.

I second this notion! I appreciate your dedication and effort for finding out these values, but Im lazy and reading numbers sucks. Could you please have a summary section that describes/explains your findings in language only? Thank you.

When Im done with each individual section it will be there!

Erebus.9276:

having over 100% with berserker means that losing power for more crit chance is worthless.

Yes, losing power for precision when over 100% critical hit chance is a bad idea, and is a worthless thing to do.

However, showing that reaching 100% critical hit chance is better DPS when buffed than wearing Berserkers is not.

Right. But if you have over 100% with berserker, why use assassin anything? Wouldn’t power > prec at that point?

It wasnt exactly the right forum to show math since I was streaming the game not a chalk board. Knowing that, it was pointless to continue to allow you to talk because you were being a troll, thus I banned you. If you want to discuss math I would be happy to do it here.

The point of showing how high my crit chance was, for what that argument is worth, is that you dont need assassins gear. You advocate assassins gear. Since I showed 100%+ crit chance easily with Zerker, I proved you don’t know much about your main class. I fully admit I’m not an expert thief, yet somehow I still know a bit more about builds than you do.

Erebus.9276:

Right. But if you have over 100% with berserker, why use assassin anything? Wouldn’t power > prec at that point?

Yes, power would be better than precision at that point. There is no way adding critical hit chance while at 100% critical hit chance is ever going to increase your DPS. People with half a brain will easily see that, as you have, and make builds around it. The first part of the discussion is basically just showing that with a lot of power buffs, adding critical hit chance is superior to adding more power. I am glad you picked up on it without needing to be told that.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

The point of showing how high my crit chance was, for what that argument is worth, is that you dont need assassins gear. .

All it showed is that you dont know how to read.

From the first post:

This thread is not for the discussion of trait setups or builds btw. This thread is only for discussion about the math behind gear sets, food, sigils and runes.

for the first calculation, we’re going to skew everything as far into working out for the Assassins set as possible by stacking as much power as we possibly can, to see if it ever has a hope of winning, because I do not believe it does.

In the next part of the discussion about Offensive gear, I am going to further discuss other traits and slot skills available, and show which are good, and which are bad. This part was about skewing things into Assassins favor to see if it could ever win, and what situations it could win in.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

It wasnt exactly the right forum to show math since I was streaming the game not a chalk board. Knowing that, it was pointless to continue to allow you to talk because you were being a troll, thus I banned you. If you want to discuss math I would be happy to do it here.

If you’re going to say X is better than Y, you better be ready to prove it, no matter what you’re doing. The fact that you can’t just shows how little you know about… anything.

Oh god.

Why. Just why.

Being the resident mathematician geek here, I guess I kinda have to read this. For future reference, though, you’d probably be best off recording your results at the very top in bold or whatnot, or making things less long-winded, or organizing your math better.

And now for the arduous task of reading this whole thing.

I didn’t read the math, I just read your opening statement and the conclusion.

Why suggest what gear to get without even considering traits? That’s kind of useless if you ask me. For example, you’re saying to take Assassin’s gear, but I’m able to get nearly (or I do get) 100% crit chance with my exotic zerker gear. Ascended assassin gear would just put me further past 100%, and have me waste possible power.

You should probably try accounting for everything that may affect damage before telling people what kind of gear is better.

I dont know why ppl complaining about the math…it is a simple one to understand but for the one who did the math invested a lot of his time doing it so guys give him a little credit instead of spiking him and for the record,not considering the traits points is the right thing to do cause it is so diverse,you cant really do the math with it.
What he gives you you need to add up with your trait points and that’s about it.

Contrary to what you expect, 30 deadly arts isn’t the answer for best physical DPS. I’m not sure whether I want to share my personal WvW build, but since someone already started this topic about silly math gear and may confuse WVW users… I’ll just give a bit of my personal thoughts and experience in builds.

Traits are more important than gear… because they optimize boons buff. I.E, 30 trickery = high fury sustained rate, boon steal + share to allies, 30 acrobatics = longer might boon for fire fields buff, up to 15% lead bonus initiative damage + easier management of First strikes, 26 seconds of might buff compared to 20, 3000 extra HP and also gives 10% in damage when endurance isn’t full.

You can reach 100% critical chance with zerk gear.

With +250 precision from the sigil, Signet of Agility, Master maintenance oil, you can reach to 80% crit chance. Add on the traits for fury, and you get 100% crit chance for 20 seconds (self sustained). Try subbing your bloodlust stacks into precision for the zerk gear, wish. Tell me if zerk gear still loses.

Switching from zerk gear to Assassin’s is about 5% increase in critical chance, and a loss of around 110 power in stats, If anyone is wondering.

PS – No offense but all of the above is a bit pointless. It really should be, how to reach 100% crit chance on zerk gear, and once you get to the point, you’re already maxing out the DPS theory on thieves.

What is the actual percentage increase to DPS going from exotic to ascended?

VidurrRedhands.1964:

What is the actual percentage increase to DPS going from exotic to ascended?

5% on average.

5% with such a small amount of stat gain and only a 1% bonus to crit damage? I meant purely ascended armor, not weapons or trinkets.

VidurrRedhands.1964:

5% with such a small amount of stat gain and only a 1% bonus to crit damage? I meant purely ascended armor, not weapons or trinkets.

The stats is about 5% increase and 1% bonus. Relatively sure about that.

Bredgen.6721:

I didn’t read the math, I just read your opening statement and the conclusion.

Why suggest what gear to get without even considering traits? That’s kind of useless if you ask me. For example, you’re saying to take Assassin’s gear, but I’m able to get nearly (or I do get) 100% crit chance with my exotic zerker gear. Ascended assassin gear would just put me further past 100%, and have me waste possible power.

You should probably try accounting for everything that may affect damage before telling people what kind of gear is better.

The point of the math is to show which gear is better in certain situations. The traits were not accounted for so that you can evaluate the passive stats with your current build.

Basically, the OP is offering a shell of passive stats where you can place your build and see how that works for you. The comparison of both sets are mainly to show the difference between the two sets. I am personally curious about the math also because I have 2 Thieves; one is wearing a full Assassin gear that seems to deal more damage than my Power build Thief.

Even if traits were considered, if both ‘zerker and ’ssin Thieves are using the same trait build, it will still comes down to what gears you’re wearing — so for clarity, I think that OP is right to leave the traits out of the picture and leave it up to us to finagle the numbers from this baseline.

Considering traits you can get +12% crit chance, both of these are semi-“passive” and available in the x/30/0/0/x setup. So yeah they do make a difference in regards to gear selection.

Erebus.9276:

Considering traits you can get +12% crit chance, both of these are semi-“passive” and available in the x/30/0/0/x setup. So yeah they do make a difference in regards to gear selection.

If that would be the case, then we should all pick up Valkeries because with x/30/x we can have 100% crit chance while in stealth.

Then if that is really the case, what’s the point of the ’zerker and ’ssin gears?

Which brings us back here to answer that question.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Considering traits you can get +12% crit chance, both of these are semi-“passive” and available in the x/30/0/0/x setup. So yeah they do make a difference in regards to gear selection.

If that would be the case, then we should all pick up Valkeries because with x/30/x we can have 100% crit chance while in stealth.

Then if that is really the case, what’s the point of the ’zerker and ’ssin gears?

Which brings us back here to answer that question.

Stealth is too conditional though, I’m just talking passive bonuses like the op.

Erebus.9276:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Considering traits you can get +12% crit chance, both of these are semi-“passive” and available in the x/30/0/0/x setup. So yeah they do make a difference in regards to gear selection.

If that would be the case, then we should all pick up Valkeries because with x/30/x we can have 100% crit chance while in stealth.

Then if that is really the case, what’s the point of the ’zerker and ’ssin gears?

Which brings us back here to answer that question.

Stealth is too conditional though, I’m just talking passive bonuses like the op.

Actually if you review the OP, he did consider having 30pts into CS.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Considering traits you can get +12% crit chance, both of these are semi-“passive” and available in the x/30/0/0/x setup. So yeah they do make a difference in regards to gear selection.

If that would be the case, then we should all pick up Valkeries because with x/30/x we can have 100% crit chance while in stealth.

Then if that is really the case, what’s the point of the ’zerker and ’ssin gears?

Which brings us back here to answer that question.

Stealth is too conditional though, I’m just talking passive bonuses like the op.

Actually if you review the OP, he did consider having 30pts into CS.

He sure did. Also included scholar runes which assumes being over 90% hp and with only 5points in CS gives +5% crit chance. Assassins gear is redundant.

Erebus.9276:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Considering traits you can get +12% crit chance, both of these are semi-“passive” and available in the x/30/0/0/x setup. So yeah they do make a difference in regards to gear selection.

If that would be the case, then we should all pick up Valkeries because with x/30/x we can have 100% crit chance while in stealth.

Then if that is really the case, what’s the point of the ’zerker and ’ssin gears?

Which brings us back here to answer that question.

Stealth is too conditional though, I’m just talking passive bonuses like the op.

Actually if you review the OP, he did consider having 30pts into CS.

He sure did. Also included scholar runes which assumes being over 90% hp and with only 5points in CS gives +5% crit chance. Assassins gear is redundant.

Perhaps Assassin gears are not for 30CS builds? Which makes the comparison still valid because it’s still nice to see the base numbers of both sets side by side, so if I am to use either set in my Power build, I can determine the difference right away since the OP already did part of the calculation for me.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Erebus.9276:

Considering traits you can get +12% crit chance, both of these are semi-“passive” and available in the x/30/0/0/x setup. So yeah they do make a difference in regards to gear selection.

If that would be the case, then we should all pick up Valkeries because with x/30/x we can have 100% crit chance while in stealth.

Then if that is really the case, what’s the point of the ’zerker and ’ssin gears?

Which brings us back here to answer that question.

Stealth is too conditional though, I’m just talking passive bonuses like the op.

Actually if you review the OP, he did consider having 30pts into CS.

He sure did. Also included scholar runes which assumes being over 90% hp and with only 5points in CS gives +5% crit chance. Assassins gear is redundant.

Perhaps Assassin gears are not for 30CS builds? Which makes the comparison still valid because it’s still nice to see the base numbers of both sets side by side, so if I am to use either set in my Power build, I can determine the difference right away since the OP already did part of the calculation for me.

Good mathematical analysis should have a conclusion that helps the reader make a more informed decision. The OP’s analysis fails on that account.

In the context of end game pve, failing to account for traits/nourishments/utilities and common team buffs (banners, 25 Might, perma-Fury) causes the OP to reach suboptimal gearing conclusions. His bottom line conclusion is that people should buy pieces of assassins gear for their pve Thief, which is objectively incorrect, the result of incomplete or irrelevant analysis. Flawed inputs leads to flawed outputs.

Why is the OP drawing such vocal condemnation? He is encouraging suboptimal choices which waste resources for casual players who would be mislead. This is a disservice to the community. Some of us like to support the community and do not want to see such disservices. The costs of Ascended armor is so high for a casual player that a gearing mistake is back-breaking. Thus, people posting misleading gearing information about ascended armor are being actively malicious, even if they don’t intend it to be. People who act maliciously and damage the community are not generally treated sympathetically.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Good mathematical analysis should have a conclusion that helps the reader make a more informed decision. The OP’s analysis fails on that account.

In the context of end game pve, failing to account for traits/nourishments/utilities and common team buffs (banners, 25 Might, perma-Fury) causes the OP to reach suboptimal gearing conclusions. His bottom line conclusion is that people should buy pieces of assassins gear for their pve Thief, which is objectively incorrect, the result of incomplete or irrelevant analysis. Flawed inputs leads to flawed outputs.

wish.1027:

Assassins – Sub Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Sweet & Spicy Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 5 Power/1 Precision Infusion
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + 100 + (5 * 5)) * ((1 * .36) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .64)) =
7918.4064 Damage

Standing next to a banner of discipline w/ fury[/u]
Assassins w/ Curry instead of Squash, 6 Precision infusions
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 0)) * ((1 * .02) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .98)) =
9772.1598 Damage

Why is the OP drawing such vocal condemnation?

Because people did not read the whole post?

He is encouraging suboptimal choices which waste resources for casual players who would be mislead. This is a disservice to the community.

The OP provides the information for those who choose to pick up either gear set and I find it very helpful when picking a gear set for my Assassin Thief — however less important for my Power Valkyrie Thief.

Some of us like to support the community and do not want to see such disservices. The costs of Ascended armor is so high for a casual player that a gearing mistake is back-breaking.

There are such thing as target audience and if you’re not one of them, then this information is not for you. The OP specifically said,

“This thread is not for the discussion of trait setups or builds btw.”
“This thread is only for discussion about the math behind gear sets, food, sigils and runes.”

Thus, people posting misleading gearing information about ascended armor are being actively malicious, even if they don’t intend it to be. People who act maliciously and damage the community are not generally treated sympathetically.

Melodramatic much?

If you are being honest, you would have admitted that the only reason you were posting here were to advertise your twitch and did not even bother to respect the OP by reading what he had posted. It’s quite obvious you did not read the OP’s post.

It’s not melodramatic. He is posting bad analysis that could potentially cost someone hundreds of gold.

Your defense is laughable, even in the example he posted with food, signet, banner of Disc he didn’t include traits! He used Toxic oils instead of dungeon food! He is comparing Apples to Oranges in that very example. What kind of person would look at that and defend it as legitimate evidence of anything?

My criticism was that he used incomplete and flawed inputs and gets incomplete and flawed outputs. The very things you quoted show that! You are basically pointing out examples of his horrible conclusions. The problem isn’t me failing to read his OP, it’s you failing to understand why the OP’s post is terrible.

Someone who invests hundreds of gold based on the OP of a wish thread, deserves to lose the money, because they haven’t done anywhere near the correct amount of research. Casuals aren’t likely to be making ascended gear, and the ones that are probably don’t care about being suboptimal.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Good mathematical analysis should have a conclusion that helps the reader make a more informed decision. The OP’s analysis fails on that account.

In the context of end game pve, failing to account for traits/nourishments/utilities and common team buffs (banners, 25 Might, perma-Fury) causes the OP to reach suboptimal gearing conclusions. His bottom line conclusion is that people should buy pieces of assassins gear for their pve Thief, which is objectively incorrect, the result of incomplete or irrelevant analysis. Flawed inputs leads to flawed outputs.

wish.1027:

Assassins – Sub Stat Power – DA30 – CS30 – 25 might Stacks – Assassins Signet – Sweet & Spicy Squash Soup – Toxic Oil – 5 Power/1 Precision Infusion
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + 100 + (5 * 5)) * ((1 * .36) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .64)) =
7918.4064 Damage

Standing next to a banner of discipline w/ fury[/u]
Assassins w/ Curry instead of Squash, 6 Precision infusions
(2019 + 235 + 300 + 250 + (35 * 25) + (5 * 0)) * ((1 * .02) + ((1.5 + 1.19) * .98)) =
9772.1598 Damage

Why is the OP drawing such vocal condemnation?

Because people did not read the whole post?

He is encouraging suboptimal choices which waste resources for casual players who would be mislead. This is a disservice to the community.

The OP provides the information for those who choose to pick up either gear set and I find it very helpful when picking a gear set for my Assassin Thief — however less important for my Power Valkyrie Thief.

Some of us like to support the community and do not want to see such disservices. The costs of Ascended armor is so high for a casual player that a gearing mistake is back-breaking.

There are such thing as target audience and if you’re not one of them, then this information is not for you. The OP specifically said,

“This thread is not for the discussion of trait setups or builds btw.”
“This thread is only for discussion about the math behind gear sets, food, sigils and runes.”

Thus, people posting misleading gearing information about ascended armor are being actively malicious, even if they don’t intend it to be. People who act maliciously and damage the community are not generally treated sympathetically.

Melodramatic much?

If you are being honest, you would have admitted that the only reason you were posting here were to advertise your twitch and did not even bother to respect the OP by reading what he had posted. It’s quite obvious you did not read the OP’s post.

Every example he uses take 30 in crit, which makes assassin redundant. Either his math is wrong or its mislabeled.

Interceptor.2653:

Someone who invests hundreds of gold based on the OP of a wish thread, deserves to lose the money, because they haven’t done anywhere near the correct amount of research. Casuals aren’t likely to be making ascended gear, and the ones that are probably don’t care about being suboptimal.

I would agree except…

1. He is passing this off as “research” so credulous people may see all those numbers and think it’s legit.

2. There are a ton of casual, semi-casual players out there that want to be optimal and do things the best they can, but they don’t have the interest in writing their own spreadsheets etc. So they trust authorities and resources in the community. People shouldnt mislead that group.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

It’s not melodramatic. He is posting bad analysis that could potentially cost someone hundreds of gold.

Again, let me take your attention to the OP’s post.

wish.1027:

This thread is not for the discussion of trait setups or builds btw. This thread is only for discussion about the math behind gear sets, food, sigils and runes.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Your defense is laughable, even in the example he posted with food, signet, banner of Disc he didn’t include traits! He used Toxic oils instead of dungeon food! He is comparing Apples to Oranges in that very example. What kind of person would look at that and defend it as legitimate evidence of anything?

Again, if you read the post, you’ll find this;

wish.1027:

This is going to assume youre one of those people running 30 Deadly Arts and 30 Critical Strikes.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

My criticism was that he used incomplete and flawed inputs and gets incomplete and flawed outputs.

Again, if you read the post, you’ll find this;

wish.1027:

If anyone would like to question this decision, please feel free to do so, and we can compare math between them and… whatever you want later in the thread.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

The very things you quoted show that! You are basically pointing out examples of his horrible conclusions. The problem isn’t me failing to read his OP, it’s you failing to understand why the OP’s post is terrible.

Again, if you read the post, you’ll find this;

wish.1027:

Ok at some point I think I did something completely wrong, cause wtf, why is assassins winning now? lulz.

Do yourself a favor and read the whole post before you further make yourself look like a donkey.

Erebus.9276:

Every example he uses take 30 in crit, which makes assassin redundant. Either his math is wrong or its mislabeled.

He acknowledge there something seems to be off.

wish.1027:

Ok at some point I think I did something completely wrong, cause wtf, why is assassins winning now? lulz.

However, neither you nor Nike have pointed out where did he go wrong. It would have been more productive of a discussion if you guys have contributed rather than being dismissive.

All I did was ask questions about his result since a wall of math bores me to death.

Erebus.9276:

All I did was ask questions about his result since a wall of math bores me to death.

Then how did you come up with your “redundancy” conclusion if you didn’t even consider the OP’s math or have provided you own math to prove that there’s a redundancy?

If someone is doing the community a disservice, that would be you and Nike don’t you think? Since you both have not provided anything that can help us readers understand what exactly you guys’ are talking about.

The OP provided a lot of disclaimers, you both have no basis to get all worked up.

Instead, write up your own math so that we can compare your number from the OP’s number and leave us decide if there is indeed a redundancy or the whole thing is indeed a waste of time.

You get over 100% crit chance with bersekers.

Adding assassin is only useful if you are not already at 100%.

Redundant.