Guild Wars 2

S/P thieves got crusehd 2 updates ago and the backstab meta is finally gone. What’s next?

Welp. They nerf every class we use. It’s official. Anet hates thieves.

S/P did not get crushed. Your pistol whip got a slight damage reduction and now you can’t hit for 15k+ with backstab. Your damage is still more than respectable.

Well, besides backstab, most ppl whined about stealth. I guess we will see a stealth nerf soon.
After that maybe Deathblossom.

I’m really proud of what Anet did to deal with that unfair burst of backstab.

I’m pretty cool with the thieves changes.

Doomdesire.9365:

Welp. They nerf every class we use. It’s official. Anet hates thieves.

If Anet hates thieves why would they spend time making the class in the first place? This post doesn’t make a lot of sense.

15% x 5 vs 50% x 1… looks like a net buff to me.

Celeras.4980:

15% x 5 vs 50% x 1… looks like a net buff to me.

Add some haste… next big QQ.

I never used AS anyways.
If you think this makes D/D bad you’re far from reality sorry.

Incoming P/P builds using Unload and blind debuffs.

The signet change will make 1 pistol whip back to the OP style.. minus one utility :P

Celeras.4980:

15% x 5 vs 50% x 1… looks like a net buff to me.

They are hoping everyone else’s math is as bad as yours I guess. 50% on one big damage hit can still be far more than 15% on 100 small damage hits.

Anet hates Rangers more.
Its true, go look at the creation list for humans, every other professions get cool looking end game gear, but ranger get a normal starter looking one.

And the shortbow, thats… barely of any use now

We haven’t even gotten any updates since our “animation fix” weeks ago. All while everyone else is getting fixed/balanced.

this patch made backstabber thief change profession to HS spammer thief..

ok i predict next patch it will nerf HS

You people act like this was unforeseen.

I’m glad they addressed the problem instead of nerfing backstab. I have a bit of faith now. AS was the problem with Backstab gibbing kitten unable to dodge. Kudos to Anet.

Time to mess around and see how this new AS could be applied / added to create new builds.

They made AS into something I’d consider using beyond a passive buff. (S/D Thief)

Went from ridiculous to just good for backstab builds, and from ‘meh’ to ‘might actually use now’ for a lot of other builds. Good change IMO.

I am not sure this is a nerf overal…
If you precast it before Steal(especially with the trait Signets of Power),it will cover Mug,C&D and Backstab +2 more(HS comes in mind).I have macroed it with Steal,and it works like a charm.

ZLE sounds right. How do you macro it?

Leuca.5732:

S/P did not get crushed. Your pistol whip got a slight damage reduction and now you can’t hit for 15k+ with backstab. Your damage is still more than respectable.

It did get crushed, the best dps skill on the S/P bar is now autoattack, so please stop being ignorant and do some research before you run your mouth.

Crit damage multiplied the reduction in damage and the overall loss was closer to 40% if you ran berserker gear.

It’s a buff to anything but backstab builds, and even then, it makes it a more “clean” combo.

We could’ve done much worse guys.

ArchNemesis.4897:

I’m glad they addressed the problem instead of nerfing backstab. I have a bit of faith now. AS was the problem with Backstab gibbing kitten unable to dodge. Kudos to Anet.

Time to mess around and see how this new AS could be applied / added to create new builds.

ZLE.8293:

I am not sure this is a nerf overal…
If you precast it before Steal(especially with the trait Signets of Power),it will cover Mug,C&D and Backstab +2 more(HS comes in mind).I have macroed it with Steal,and it works like a charm.

I 100% agree with these two. This is a brilliant balance tweak that has restored my faith in Anet’s balancing abilities. Good job, Anet!

Pasting my thoughts to this thread too:

It’s hardly anything when you think about it. I can be used with Pistol whip, it can be used with Cluster bombs (10K cluster bombs?), it can be used with unload.
Really all it did to glass cannons is make the build that much more accessible skill cap wise. Now you just pre-cast the signet and get +15% on your Mug, C&D and Backstab along with 2 heartseeker (or whatever based on enemy health) followups… realllllllllly it’s hardly a nerf more of a buff.

AS is a lot better now IMO, than before.

You can use it with multi hit skills with more effectiveness.

So, the only people qqing are the one trick pony baddie thieves.

Incurafy.6329:

ArchNemesis.4897:

I’m glad they addressed the problem instead of nerfing backstab. I have a bit of faith now. AS was the problem with Backstab gibbing kitten unable to dodge. Kudos to Anet.

Time to mess around and see how this new AS could be applied / added to create new builds.

ZLE.8293:

I am not sure this is a nerf overal…
If you precast it before Steal(especially with the trait Signets of Power),it will cover Mug,C&D and Backstab +2 more(HS comes in mind).I have macroed it with Steal,and it works like a charm.

I 100% agree with these two. This is a brilliant balance tweak that has restored my faith in Anet’s balancing abilities. Good job, Anet!

I’m not sure I’d say it’s brilliant, but it’s definitely more thought out than the thief changes in the previous patches. It gave me enough confidence in arenanet that I just logged in for the first time in over 2 weeks. I quickly logged back out a few minutes later because the FoV and camera issues still make me want to puke, but hey, it’s something.

Sadly it’s far for brilliant.Along with some good uses,it will favor yet again the lowest tier
of Thieves society,the Heartseeker spamers.I wouldn’t be surpriced if we see a rebirth of
AS+Haste+HS spamer builds.

How does this help heartseeker spammers? Have you actually died to one lately? If my health is above 50% I don’t even bother dodging heartseeker.

It’s a decent change for sure. One-hit wonder builds will be less effective while other options such as dual pistol will be much more viable. I still don’t like how reliant thief builds are on a single utility skill though (this signet or haste)

Hate to break it to you. No class in the game, No matter the situation, should have the ability to deal 85% of a players HP of equal level/gear in ONE hit. Thats what was happening prior to the patch. And it made it kitten near impossible for the opponants to react which pretty much meant they were dead. Thats just a bit bs. And anyone who stands there and says otherwise are likely the same people who been using the hell out of it.

The fix was a necessity. It forces a few things. One, it gives opponants time to react so that they can pop CDs and other means to protect themselves. We get 15% more dmg over 5 attacks, and pending which attacks are used, this can mean more damage in hte long run.

And because of this change we all get a very cool benefit. It forces thieves to play better. Seriously. There are quite a bit of people who played theif because of the rediculous backstab damage and nothing else. And it wasnt exactly rocket science to do it decently. With this change, the huge backstab face roll is gone, and it forces a player to either get better, or go play something else.

Iron Wolf.5973:

Hate to break it to you. No class in the game, No matter the situation, should have the ability to deal 85% of a players HP of equal level/gear in ONE hit.

It wasn’t one hit. It required at the minimum 3 skills to be used and many many traits. And scholar runes meaning you had to be at full health to deliver the full damage.

@turbo whale..

why the sarcastic stupid post?

its easier to do a chain of attacks then to plan and line up 1 massive hit.

let me enlighten you

with might stacking traits and sigils.. i roll twice, hit ss sig, then c+d, then infiltrator sig, then assassins sig, then weapon swap, then backstab… so im actually pressing 6-7 skills to line up the 1 hit..

i use soldiers amulet which is why i need to stack so much might and which is why my other attacks do little damage (no precision not much crit dmg).. buffing my other attacks doesnt really help me so yes its a BIG NERF

why use this method you ask? well before the patch i could deal 15k backstabs with a full tank build.

Since people dont know how to do math ill just leave this here…
15 × 5 = 75(%)
50 × 1 = 50(%)
only serves to stop the insane 25k+ backstab nukes. This is actually an overall damage buff for all other builds (aside from condition stuff i guess?) that fixed the backstab issue

Maybe it nerfs backstab synergy a lot, which was needed, but it allows a buff to a LOT of other builds.

i hate Anet now so bad, i really HATE THEM NOW

Okay… Just gonna GIVE you guys the solution to those who are confused to the change. Yes, 50% of one big hit is more damage than 5 15% hits on small numbers. But 15% on fairly large numbers makes those 4k’s become 5k’s or 6k’s.

Pop your Assassins Signet BEFORE you’re combo, rather than using it as an attack. You’ll accomplish the exact same thing, and actually will do better against other classes than pre-nerf. Earlier today, my steal hit for 5k, C&D for 5k, then a 10k back stab on a ranger (unsure of traits) in tPvP.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Since people dont know how to do math ill just leave this here…
15 × 5 = 75(%)
50 × 1 = 50(%)
GOOD GOD IT DOES MORE OVERALL DAMAGE… ) and only serves to stop the insane 25k+ backstab nukes. This is actually an overall damage buff for all other builds (aside from condition stuff i guess?) that fixed the backstab issue

Since you are so clever at math. What is 50% more of say 5K dmg. And what is 15% more on say 1 5K dmg and 4 750dmg.

i must admit that im surprised, i was expecting far worse.

Was also expecting some Warrior nerfs and the 50k bladetrail is still ALOWED (video here) but actually got BUFFED… i guess devs still play them as main so…

Also Bunkers are still Bosses that need a party of 5 to take down. I’m afraid of whats coming next…

p/w got a -15%dmg
now we have a +15%dmg for 5 hits
ANet = Penelope ?

Bads are still gonna get wrecked by people who know what they are doing. This changes nothing.

k lol this thread is a bunch of bads sucking anets kitten for listening to them whine and kitten about mechanics they can’t seem to wrap their small non-competitive gamer brains around.

@ZLE

I wasn’t sure Anet was okay with people using programmable keyboards to macro their skills.

Not that they’d be able to stop you since its not a 3rd party program or a hack…still it kinda takes away from the spirit of ‘skill’

Daendur.2357:

p/w got a -15%dmg
now we have a +15%dmg for 5 hits
ANet = Penelope ?

Difference is, you don’t have 15% damage for ‘33333’ dead. You have it for 5 hits.

Of course, as ZLE says, its probably going to be used mostly to spam Heartseeker.

At which point, they will probably have to change something else.

Expect more nerfs to the skill spamming class. There’s not much you can do besides decrease damage due to the nature of repeatedly using high damage attacks.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Since people dont know how to do math ill just leave this here…
15 × 5 = 75(%)
50 × 1 = 50(%)
GOOD GOD IT DOES MORE OVERALL DAMAGE… ) and only serves to stop the insane 25k+ backstab nukes. This is actually an overall damage buff for all other builds (aside from condition stuff i guess?) that fixed the backstab issue

It actually doesn’t do more damage at all, since your random math doesn’t take into account the actual damage things like backstab did. :p

However, it increases the overall damage of things like Sword/Dagger and Pistol/Pistol, which is something thieves did need to make those more useful. Plus, it solves the backstab “problem” which people complained so much about. Since I never used backstab in the first place (too gimmicky) its hard to feel too sad about it.

Volrath.1473:

i must admit that im surprised, i was expecting far worse.

Was also expecting some Warrior nerfs and the 50k bladetrail is still ALOWED (video here) but actually got BUFFED… i guess devs still play them as main so…

Also Bunkers are still Bosses that need a party of 5 to take down. I’m afraid of whats coming next…

Bladetrail has a bug. When it gets fixed, you’ll probably see it as a nerf. Most warrior players will not, it has been pointed out time and again as OP and unintended.

How many “don’t nerf me bro” posts do you see on the warrior forum?

I think you should consider playing one to get a feel for trying to melee DPS without stealth and shadowstep.

And don’t post the child’s “comeback” response of, “I have a level 80 warrior,kitten”

Everyone has a level 80 everything, its called “Enter the Mists”

It is rather clear to me that ANet does not buff or nerf based on whine, they have their own statistics and adjust the professions in accordance to them. The only thing the Assasin Signet change does is basically ‘flatten’ the spike damage. The backstab 2-shot build was never really viable agains skilled players, after the change is becomes less viable agains inexperienced players. Which in my book, is a good thing.

Daendur.2357:

p/w got a -15%dmg
now we have a +15%dmg for 5 hits
ANet = Penelope ?

once every 45s, and it’s still not as good as pistol whip used to be. Pistol whip is 9 hits.

@Daendur: To add to what Devildoc said, a 15% increase is less then a 15% increase, since the increase is tied to a smaller number then the decrease.

Turbo Whale.1738:

Unless… and stay with me on this… you don’t be an idiot and instead you should save your most powerful attacks for the signet? I dunno… requires a bit more thought than getting B1G N4MB3R2 PWN4G3 but with certain attacks it will do more damage than the old signet. I know, it can be difficult doing more than looking at your highest number skill and clicking signet before it. But you can do it kitten

The thing is, the % damage bonus scales exponentially with Might and CritDmg.
Since you can get up to 25stacks of Might for ~5 seconds and 100% crit rate on a single attack, that 50% on the tooltip actually became closer to 200% in actual usage.

There’s just no way to sustain those Might and Crit buffs for 5 attacks, so the damage potential WAS nerfed.

You have to look past the tooltip number to the actual damage formula interaction to get a full picture.

But really, who cares if it was nerfed. It was never practical to pop every ability you have in order to buff a single attack and then have precisely 0 utility until all your cooldowns were up again.
And it’s actually better for several other builds now.

I don’t know what’s next, but I’m starting to believe that I know what awaits thiefs at the end of the tunnel. In the end, we’ll have pillow for weapon and 1hp.